Are the lower-tier saturn shooters worth buying?

[lynchesque]

Ok, the first saturn shmup I got my hands on was Souky...Loved it, beat it, but have yet to 1cc it. Played a little Garegga and moved on to RSG...Blows them both away imo, I don't give a shit about hype; this IS the game. It gets better every time you play for obvious reasons...

So my question is are the lesser known, less-hyped saturn shmups worth it? For example, I received dodonpachi in the mail the other day and although I like the game, it just doesn't touch the top 3 imo.

Are there any games rounding out the saturn lot that can hold a candle to Garegga, Souky, and RSG? I prefer verts, but am open to horis.

I have never played the following:

blast wind
sengoku blade
hyper duel
strikers 1945 II
image fight/x-multiply
layer section II
thunderforce V
metal black
shienryu
darius gaiden

Batsugun is in the mail...

[BulletMagnet]

Most of the ones you list should be playable in MAME if you want to try them out...as for those that aren't, I'll comment on the ones I've played...

Blast Wind: Vertical Technosoft (the Thunderforce guys) shmup, with nice 2D graphics and typical cheesy electronic soundtrack. 2 ships to choose from (depending on the controller port you use) with 2 weapons apiece, plus bombs. No real scoring system aside from collecting point items, but you can take one of two paths through each stage. Not very challenging, and it's expensive and tricky to find, but resident Saturn fanatic jp still swears by it.

Layer Section II: Haven't played the Saturn version of this, but I do have the PS1 version, Raystorm. Sequel to Rayforce/Layer Section/Galactic Attack (playable in MAME, IIRC), with an "uphill" perspective and 3D graphics, which makes things a bit confusing to keep track of imo. Brings back the lock-on system with an enhancement or two, and gives you more than one ship to choose from. IIRC, the Saturn version has an extra playable ship but worse graphics.

Thunderforce V: Same basic idea as the previous Thunder Force games, but with 3D graphics and a "quick kill" scoring system. My main beef with it (though others disagree) is the "free-range" weapon: it's so much more powerful than everything else, that if you lose it you'll struggle mightily just to survive, let alone score, especially at the bosses. Also available on PS1: the latter version has worse graphics, but a couple of extra features and less slowdown, IIRC.

Shienryu: Sort of playable in MAME, though I'll mention it to be safe. Plays sort of like Raiden, with 3 weapons to collect and power up, plus bombs and score items. Relatively simple, but the graphics are nice and the hitbox seems a bit more forgiving than Raiden's. Also available on PS1 (as "Geki-oh Shooting King") and PS2 (on "Double Shienryu"): IIRC the Saturn one is the only one which can save high scores, not sure about other features. You can also try "Daioh" in MAME, it plays sort of similarly, though it gives you all the weapons and bomb types all at once (you'll need lots of buttons to use 'em all).

Hopefully that helps somewhat...

[lynchesque]

Yeah, that helps man. I assume that you are not saying Sengoku, Strikers II, and HD don't compete for a top spot, you are implying you haven't played them or no mame etc...

[shinsage]

blast wind -- not worth the high price (is it still $70+?), but it's good..very easy.

strikers 1945 II -- really, does anything need to be said?

image fight/x-multiply -- excellent, EXCELLENT old school comp. A must-have.

thunderforce V -- PS1 ftw

metal black -- great stuff, very odd. music is classic zuntata.

shienryu -- love it, it's like hard rock+shmups=genius

darius gaiden -- quite possibly the best in the series. maybe even beating G.

Also, put Gekirindan in your list. You shant regret it.

[Strider77]

hyper duel

thunderforce V

I say those two are a must... well hyper duel is pricy but I think really highly of it. Its really alot of fun and the saturn version is much better than the arcade (the arcade version is on there also). It has better graphics, music and control but doesn't screw with the layout of the game to much if any. I would say its a must have but it can be a bit on the high side for price. It's an awsome hori..

Thunder Force 5 is alot of fun and not all that bad looking either (for a 32 bit saturn shooter with 3D elements). It's got a great soundtrack and if you're a fan of the TF series then you MUST get it. Most importantly its a fun game.

the rest of those titles it's hard to say, I own most of them but I didn't pay much and wouldn't pay alot for em either. Blast Wind is not worth the high price at all in my opinion, I payed 70 for it and to me that was way to much for it.

Hyper Duel I bought new when it came out but it was 50 then, I can honestly say I would pay the price that it goes for these days if I didn't have it though. TF5 ain't all that much and think it's worth 40 to 60... you should be able to find the regular one for about 40 to 50 easy.


image fight/x-multiply is the only one i haven't played or own. if you don't have batsugun..... get it.

[Cyarc]

I agree with you that Soukyugurenti is where it's at, definetley one of my faves. For that list, I have played some of those on there and to tell you the truth I feel like none of them are "Must haves", but you will still have fun with them, I just wouldn't pay an arm or leg for it. I see you got Batsugun, smart choice. You have alot of the "must have" saturn shooters besides Layer Section, if you don't have that you should pick it up.

[CIT]

blast wind

Pretty good Saturn exclusive shooter. Pretty easy, if you like the other Technosoft games you'll like this too, though.

sengoku blade

I think it's fantastic. Plays like all early Psikyo games, except horizontal, with a medieval Japan theme and the graphics and design are much better than in most Psikyo games.

hyper duel

Awesome game. Similar to the Thunder Force series, but superior IMO. It's the second most expensive Saturn shooter after Radiant S. though.

strikers 1945 II

A lot of people love this, I find it a tad boring.

image fight/x-multiply

Amazing old-school collection. Must Have! Not cheap though.

layer section II

Port sucks. Get the Playstation version. (called "Raystorm")

thunderforce V

Outdated 3D graphics, but all in all a pretty ace game.

metal black

Really atmospheric shooter with a great soundtrack, gameplay is a bit dodgy though.

shienryu

Like a Raiden game, except that it is really GOOD!

darius gaiden

Great game, and probably the cheapest Saturn shooter.

Batsugun is in the mail...

Can't go wrong with that!


Actually most of the shooter you listed are pretty excellent. I'd also recommend Layer Section if you haven't got it already. IMO it's up there with Garegga and R.S. and it can be had for peanuts. Also, get the Konami Deluxe Packs!

[BulletMagnet]

I assume that you are not saying Sengoku, Strikers II, and HD don't compete for a top spot, you are implying you haven't played them or no mame etc...

Nah, I just listed the ones you can't play in MAME, you should be able to try the rest in there and judge for yourself.

[LSU]

blast wind
sengoku blade
hyper duel
strikers 1945 II
image fight/x-multiply
layer section II
thunderforce V
metal black
shienryu
darius gaiden

Batsugun is in the mail...

Actually, the only game in that list that I would say is not really that enjoyable is Layer Section II, and that's just because of technical issues with that version - as people have said the PS1 version is far superior. All the rest are either good or great IMO. (It is a shame that Hyper Duel and Blast Wind have become so expensive though, and Sengoku Blaede isn't exactly cheap nowadays either... I thought the PS2 comp might help bring the price that one down a bit, but evidently not?)

[Icarus]

* blast wind
Pretty easy, but I like it. If you want prolonged enjoyment out of it, make sure you crank it up to maximum difficulty, as like most other Technosoft games, its a bit of a cakewalk.

* sengoku blade
I'm not a big fan of Psikyo, but this is okay.
Big breasted shinto priestess for the win.

* hyper duel
My fave Technosoft game, and one of the best games for the Saturn. Challenging, very fast paced, excellent control and gameplay, typical of all Technosoft horizontal shmups. Shame it commands such high prices nowadays.
And the Saturn Arranged soundtrack is awesome.

* strikers 1945 II
Not a Psikyo fan, but this is okay as well. This version is plagued with slowdown, however.

* image fight/x-multiply
Classic Irem doublepack and one that should be hunted down and bought if you like your games from that era. Damn fine ports.

* layer section II
Get Raystorm on the PSX instead, or Layer Section on the Saturn. Don't bother with this unless you want to be completist.

* thunderforce V
Despite what some people will say, the Saturn version of TFV is superior. Neater graphics, somewhat better control, and the score system isn't mangled as it is on the PSX. Only thing the PSX has over this is Boss Attack Mode.

* metal black
Pretty trippy for an old Taito game. A sort-of sequel to Gun Frontier, and a kind of precursor to Border Down on the Dreamcast. Get it if you like your shootemups a little gritty and dark.

* shienryu
The Raiden series is better, but for a clone-a-like this is one of the best.
Alternatively you can get Double Shienryu on the PS2 and get the hilariously easy Shienryu Explosion packed in with it.

* darius gaiden
Great fun with multiple routes and big fish bosses. Pretty cheap too, so it should be your first stop while you hunt down the rest of the Saturn back catalogue.

[TerminasluT]

You should also give Guardian Force & Kyukyoku Tiger 2 Plus a try. Both are really excellent, Tiger 2 Plus is almost like Under Defeat's ancestor done by Takumi

Anyone can comment on Skull Fang? its one of those that Ive never played.
Or Planet Joker? heard this one is pretty bad but Im still curious about it.

[CIT]

Anyone can comment on Skull Fang? its one of those that Ive never played.
Or Planet Joker? heard this one is pretty bad but Im still curious about it.

Planet Joker is hilariously bad.

Skull Fang basically sucks too. It has this gimmick that you can speed up or slow down your ship and you'll have to use this feature to catch up with the bosses before they escape. It's actually really annoying. The rest of the game is just a really uninspired Sonic Wings rehash, although the technical side is okay.

[The Coop]

Blast Wind- Pretty easy shmup that's a good game. Not spectacular like TFV or Hyper Duel, but good. Not sure why the price jumped so high though.

Sengoku Blade- Never played it.

Hyper Duel- A great horizontal shmup. There's the original arcade mode, and a Saturn "remix" mode. Good graphics, tunes and gameplay. Worth getting to be sure.

Strikers 1945 II- Very cool shmup. It's a step or two above the already good first game. It's a bit expansive though, so you might consider getting the US PS1 game Strikers 1945. Believe it or not, it's actually Strikers 1945 II (Agetec changed the name for some dumb reason when they brought it over).

Image Fight/X-Multiply- Expensive? Yes. Good? Hell yes. While IF didn't strike my fancy too much, X-M makes it worth getting in a big way.

Layer Section II- This is the Saturn version of Raystorm on the PS1. It's the same game, but with an added ship, CGI cinemas, and lessened transparency effects. Good game though.

Thunderforce V- Get it, love it, and treasure it. Yes, there's a PS1 version, but believe it or not, the Saturn version looks better. The are more graphical effects like parallax scrolling and transparencies (yes, true transparencies) than the PS1 version, plus, if you can find the "Special Edition", you get a rather nice music CD. So while the PS1 version has a boss mode and new CGI cinemas, I still consider the Saturn version to be more polished.

Metal Black- Basically, it's a funky horizontal shmup. It has Darius overtones in places, but the gameplay differs greatly. It's a pretty tough game, but it's also a good one... a bit different, but good. Somehow it's the sequel to Gun Frontier, despite being completely different in all aspects.

Shienryu- Haven't played it.

Darius Gaiden- Very good entry in the series. Everything in is game is well done, from the graphics, to the music, to the little gameplay tweaks (like taking control of midbosses). This should be picked up without question.

[lynchesque]

There's some nice in depth posts here, you guys really seem to know your shit. I'm a great twitch player but looks like there's a fair amount of catching up to do on my behalf...

Also, there's seems to be a lot a varying opinions on TF V...I think I'll grab that one soon and form my own opinion in regard to its quality. I've heard similiar things in other places that the psx version has better textures, but the saturn version has better transparencies and light sourcing. Who would have thought!

[Neon]

Darius Gaiden and maybe Hyper Duel are the only two must haves on the list. Strikers 2 is better on PSX. Can't speak for layer section 2 now that I think about it.

[Limbrooke]

Also, put Gekirindan in your list. You shant regret it.

You have officially lost my respect.

But seriously, Gekirindan on Saturn is bollocks. Horrible scaling and not a very tidy port altogether.
If you want Gekirindan near arcade play Taito Legends 2, no loading, no slowdown, and arcade perfect bg/sprites and music. The only thing Saturn might have going is TATE mode, but since I never found the game particularily interesting in the first place I wouldn't know if it exists.


Regarding lower tier Saturn games, I wonder how Hyper Duel and Thunder Force 5 made it onto the 'lower' portion.

Here are my recommends:

blast wind

A decent vertical shooter from TechnoSoft although some might jest it's a bit on the easier side. Awesome soundtrack and nice visually accompany this often expensive game. Not a definite recommend in my books due to the price so you might want to wait on this one.

sengoku blade
layer section II
shienryu

Never played, never played and... never played. At least not on Saturn anyway. I've played LS2(Rayforce) very little on PlayStation and thought 'meh'. About the same feeling for Shienryu as Geki-Oh on PS too.

hyper duel

An excellent horizontal shmup also from TechnoSoft. You pilot a ship that can OTF transform into a Mecha for a mixed attack strategy. Plenty of action, challenge and presentation make this a definite consideration.

strikers 1945 II

Get it on PS. Less slowdown, better sound, cheaper, etc... Psikyo didn't do as well a polished job on Saturn unfortunately. Otherwise standard issue Psikyo with plenty of challenge. Music isn't anything to write home about but it's a nice addition to any collection.

image fight/x-multiply

Get it on PS. However, this isn't regarding gameplay moreso in price. It's about 10-20% cheaper as I've seen. This pack alone is worth it for the excellent port of X-Multiply, one of the best horizontals made.

thunderforce V

Again, from TechnoSoft, and again it's great. A rocking soundtrack accompany the often action packed TFV. Not so easy on the eyes after all these years, but a must grab since it can be sought for very little. Given it's such a fun game the price of admission is worth it and then some.

metal black
darius gaiden

Get Taito Legends 2 for PS2 or XBOX. Or if you aren't in a PAL region order the PC version. I might have to recommend Darius Gaiden over Metal Black since DG is a more balanced game overall. Metal Black even with a very cheap gameplay nature still has excellent visuals and a fantastic YACK composed soundtrack.

[SFKhoa]

I guess it's about time someone should post the URL for the Sega Saturn Shooting Special so those that are curious can see how every shmup existant on the Saturn plays. (except Metal Slug, and the bunches of Konami's _________ Deluxe packs.)

EDIT: Okay, maybe just watch the gameplay and ignore the commentary.

[CIT]

I think it's probably best one doesn't watch the Sega Saturn Shooting special, as Yakumo has no fucking clue what he's talking about most of the time.

Most of these games are emulated in Mame anyway, so everyone can form their own opinion.

[Strider77]

You all ready have Souky.... that game is one of, if not my favorite shooter. I enjoy it more than RSG to be honest.

[drohne]

blast wind -- great soundtrack, fun in a megadrivey way, but probably not worth the money

sengoku blade -- sure, excellent game, and the saturn version has some features the arcade version doesn't. you might go for the cheaper ps2 sengoku comp if you've got access.

hyper duel -- the best macross game ever, and it isn't even a macross game -- but it's not worth the prices

strikers 1945 II -- ps1 version is better, and there's a superlite release that's probably still pretty cheap. us version lacks tate, iirc. it's a classic, though.

image fight/x-multiply -- image fight rocks, though it's indecently hard. haven't spent much time with x-multiply.

layer section II -- isn't this just a bad port of raystorm?

thunderforce V -- great game, looks way the hell better than the ps1 version. go for it.

metal black -- i'm a big metal black fan -- tremendous style, excellent music. it's on the first taito memories compilation, though, so at this point you may as well go for that.

shienryu -- fun old-school game, but the ps2 version is preferable -- the saturn version has some nasty sprite flicker during boss fights

darius gaiden -- uh, just read the metal black description and switch the names around

there are some other lesser-known saturn shmups i like a lot -- guardian force, game tengoku...uh...probably some stuff i'm not thinking of. i need to hook my saturn up and shmup some.

[lynchesque]

I think the real question everyone wants to know is:

What saturn game is the port ever?

[nem]

Everybody who slags off Gekirindan hasn't played it in tate. It's an absolute disaster in yoko, but actually pretty good in tate. Yes, it does make that big of a difference. I have got my money's worth several times over from Gekirindan (mind you, I got mine for a fiver, but still!).

PS. I still have an extra copy of Blast Wind (w/ spine!) to unload. [/spam]

edit:

I think the real question everyone wants to know is:

What saturn game is the port ever?

That's easy.

Batsugun.

[jp]

Blast Wind - In my top 5 shmups of all time. The music is amazing. The graphics are good. The gameplay/control is top notch. Enemies are all fun. The scoring system is simple but complex enough (collect 100 coins to make a 1UP appear and don't die). Honestly, Blast Wind is one of my all time favorites. I love this game. I play through it once a week.

Sengoku Blaede - The best Psikyo has ever done IMO. And I hate Psikyo. But I like this game. Its fairly fun and the characters are interesting. Graphics and music are fairly average. Enemy designs are awesome though.

Hyper Duel - Fucking amazing game. The music, as is always the case with Tecno Soft, is SPECTACULAR! The graphics in Saturn Mode are damn solid. Gameplay is top notch as is control. Enemy designs are also awesome. And Hyper Duel packs a bit of a punch (is fairly difficult), so I would highly recommend it. Best hori on the Saturn.

Strikers 1945 II - I hate Psikyo. I'll leave it at that.

Image Fight/X-Multiply - Very cool collection. Both games are damn good.

Layer Section II - Shitty port of a mediocre game. Next...

Thunderforce V - My least favorite Thunder Force title. But it has its moments...

Metal Black - Awesome hori. The music is very good and the gameplay is cheap as hell. But it is rewarding, and it is fun. If only score didn't rely so much on that retarded mini-game...

Shienryu - Very good vert with very good graphics, good music, and solid gameplay. Its also fairly challenging. Wooo!

Darius Gaiden - Best Darius game ever IMO.

I think I have all of these reviewed (albeit mini reviews) in the link in my sig. So... for more info, hit that up.

[lynchesque]

Darius Gaiden - Best Darius game ever IMO.

Just picked this game up for $8 at a local game shop. DG is very good shmup indeed. Great oldschool graphics and music, but poor sfx. Very 16-bit. I can't think of a better shooter for under a tenner; maybe Lightening Force (TFIV), which can be had for $5.

[JJG]

If you can find complete versions of TFIV for $5 I'd scoop up as many copies as possible 'cause that's a rare find.

[lynchesque]

If you can find complete versions of TFIV for $5 I'd scoop up as many copies as possible 'cause that's a rare find.

I bought TFIV at Slackers, a game chain here in the midwest, for $5 complete. I've been to about 6 of their stores and every one has this game. Check out their website if you are looking for shitloads of retro games: http://slackers.com/

[JJG]

cool, do they only sell complete stuff or what?

[lynchesque]

cool, do they only sell complete stuff or what?

I've never bought from them online, but I've purchased hundreds of complete games from their stores in the past. If you ever come through Missouri of Illinois you should stop by. We're talking every US genesis title boxed, hundreds of boxed snes games, and boxed jaguar games etc...

[Limbrooke]

If you ever come through Missouri or Illinois you should stop by. We're talking every US genesis title boxed, hundreds of boxed snes games, and boxed jaguar games etc...

I knew I should have drove to Chicago earlier... d'oh.

cool, do they only sell complete stuff or what?

If you're interested in getting TFIV complete for cheap check this out:
Case & Cart
Manual

[shinsage]

You have officially lost my respect.

cool to know I had it in the first place.
Gekirindan is a huge guilty pleasure of mine, I know the port is easily one of the worst ports for any shmup ever, but god, there's just something about it that is so 'pick up n play'.
I enjoy old bad games, but there's a different reason with Geks
lynchy needs to go and buy it, cos I'm kinda creating an army of Gekirindan fans that will force Taito to make a similar game.
or else