Official Pink Sweets -Ibara Sorekara- thread (renamed)

[BulletMagnet]

I'm absolutely floored that CaveZing (apparently) still refuses to release "hard" information on how the rank system works...honestly, I think that half of the negative attitudes towards games like this are the direct result of players having no reliable way to tell what's going on in that area in particular (any who still put stock into the "experimentation" method can surely recall how much of that "established" info was proved wrong in Garegga's case once the ROM was hacked). Honestly, how hard is it just to put up a quick couple of charts on their website or something, at the very least?

DISCLAIMER: If this sounds like a "Rank Suxxorz" comment to you, please read again, more closely!

[Icarus]

I haven't been getting Arcadia for some time now, so I'm not sure if there was any detailed system coverage in any of the recent issues. Anyone?

[BulletMagnet]

Did they put out anything like that for Ibara (for that matter, has the developer of ANY game with a complex rank system that requires manipulation for either survival or scoring EVER put out such concrete info)? If memory serves I don't think they did, or at least I never got wind of it...

[Icarus]

Something like that.

[BulletMagnet]

The actual system by which your rank increases is extremely complicated, so we’re not going to get into the gritty details

Kick us while we're down, why don't ya?

It does give a few general guidelines, but I can't help but wonder why, since games like this are aimed at pretty "hardcore" players to begin with, they seem to think that those same players aren't into minutiae like the specifics of the rank system...heck, even a doofus like me was able to wade through the "raw" info for Garegga with a bit of help from some others around here.

(Off to the side, I think that's the post I referred to with the "impossible" quote in there some time back...I was wondering where it went.)

[EOJ]

I'm getting more and more interested in Pink Sweets too. It's not 'crap', perhaps some of you don't like Raizing gameplay but as Icarus said that doesn't equate to being 'crap'. I played it a few times in Japan and admittedly wasn't blown away by it, but I also didn't know what the heck I was doing. It's quite a lovely looking game in terms of graphics, some of the stages are some the nicest looking stuff Cave has ever done. Like most Raizing games PS looks to be pretty deep, and it'll require some solid playing time to learn the system and really appreciate it. Seeing the recent 1CC vid has shown me a glimpse of the depth inside, even though the player didn't medal chain at all.

Anyway, I'm a big fan of Ibara and I'll definitely be buying a PS kit when it drops a bit more in price.

[Icarus]

Like most Raizing games PS looks to be pretty deep, and it'll require some solid playing time to learn the system and really appreciate it. Seeing the recent 1CC vid has shown me a glimpse of the depth inside, even though the player didn't medal chain at all.

The most surprising thing about the Kasumi ALL replay was that the player cleared the game with nearly 9mil, and that's without picking up any big Medals at all. Start with a base 10mil score, add lots of bullet-eating, surplus item collection and all the big 10k Medals, and I'd say the top-end scores are pushing 30mil again.

Of course, to balance this out, the game's rank system will get so vicious that even the charge bomb won't help in survival.

Anyone have an idea of what the Pink Sweets WR is at present? According to AIVA, it's 15,932,380 held by NAKAO RYUUZOU, but I suspect that this is a fairly old record. (And we all know what we thought was the 30mil top-end WR for Ibara Extended turned out to be a 1-loop ALL score. ^_-)

It does give a few general guidelines, but I can't help but wonder why, since games like this are aimed at pretty "hardcore" players to begin with, they seem to think that those same players aren't into minutiae like the specifics of the rank system...heck, even a doofus like me was able to wade through the "raw" info for Garegga with a bit of help from some others around here.

The thing is, Arcadia can get away with giving players just generalised information, as they know that on websites, anonymous and team forums, and Futaba Channel (2chan), most of the players will end up doing the main part of the leg work in systems analysis. We saw that with Ibara, when players at arcadeita and 2chan had already theorised and worked out all the main components of the rank system not long after it was released.

I haven't browsed 2chan and arcadeita for a while, but I suspect that there is some deep systems analysis that goes into a lot more detail than STGWIKI did.

[EOJ]

The most surprising thing about the Kasumi ALL replay was that the player cleared the game with nearly 9mil, and that's without picking up any big Medals at all.

He got 6.83 mil actually. The top score on the scoreboard is an 8mil score up to stage 7. The guy doing the replay didn't get a high enough score to place on the scoreboard in his run. Just like Ibara, ALL/1CC scores in PS are highlighted in green on the in-game scoreboard.

[Icarus]

He got 6.83 mil actually. The top score on the scoreboard is an 8mil score up to stage 7. The guy doing the replay didn't get a high enough score to place on the scoreboard in his run. Just like Ibara, ALL/1CC scores in PS are highlighted in green on the in-game scoreboard.

Huh, I forgot about that. I thought he got a couple of extra mil for clearing the game. Looks like scoring in PS is a lot nastier than it would appear at first glance.

Couple of thoughts on the scoring systems:

* 10k Medals
Pretty much the staple diet of all Raizing scoring systems. There seems to be an abundance of the general value Medals so I'd guess that a perfect Medal chain would give maybe 8mil+ on top of other points. However is there a reason that players are purposely skipping over them besides rank? (And is Medal collection really part of the rank system?)

* Ground-based Rose Medals
Similar to the Rose Medals in Ibara, except all ground targets drop them in varying sizes (100, 200, 400, 800). It's speculated that Rose Medals can linked to rank decrease (like in Ibara Arrange/Kuro), and perhaps picking up all available Rose Medals gives around an extra 2mil at estimate.

* Bullet-Eater
Something not seen in many Raizing games besides Ibara Arrange/Kuro is bullet-eating. This game seems to like throwing a lot of bullets at you, pretty much forcing you to use the charge aura/bomb. Maybe a portion of points come from juicing big patterns with the bomb for points? Estimated 3mil from bullet eating perhaps...

* Attack Usage
As with most Raizing games, you get varying amounts of points from using particular attacks to destroy enemies. In this case, you get one set amount for using Shot, and one for using Bomb. You can see all the different values on Cave's Pink Sweets Stage-by-Stage pages. Dunno what the estimated total for a perfect run with all maximum possible points taken would be. ~8mil?

I haven't noticed yet, but are there points for scratching bullets?

[BulletMagnet]

The thing is, Arcadia can get away with giving players just generalised information, as they know that on websites, anonymous and team forums, and Futaba Channel (2chan), most of the players will end up doing the main part of the leg work in systems analysis. We saw that with Ibara, when players at arcadeita and 2chan had already theorised and worked out all the main components of the rank system not long after it was released.

As I said above, though, observation and theorization can only take you so far...once you get beyond a general "do this and don't do that" (oftentimes not even that far) you're still pretty much in the dark.

I'm honestly not trying to "start anything" here, it just strikes me as a glaring omission on the part of the developers when trying to appeal to their target audience (let alone anyone else), and one that could be easily remedied to boot. As such, please pardon my griping.

[Icarus]

As I said above, though, observation and theorization can only take you so far...once you get beyond a general "do this and don't do that" (oftentimes not even that far) you're still pretty much in the dark.

I'm honestly not trying to "start anything" here, it just strikes me as a glaring omission on the part of the developers when trying to appeal to their target audience (let alone anyone else), and one that could be easily remedied to boot. As such, please pardon my griping.

I think it's fine to be honest. Unless the system is known to have a lot of factors like Garegga, just a general idea is enough to get people thinking. In Garegga's case it was necessary to give everyone the lowdown anyway, especially as it was part of a competition. With more recent releases, the system is inherently similar to Garegga's with maybe a few modifications. It wouldn't take too long for two or three curious players to run a bunch of tests and to report findings.

Plus you forget that the games come out in Japan first, and most of the players who will be interested in the game will inevitably take the necessary steps to find out everything about the systems in place.

Don't forget how much theory went around here when Ibara was in its loketest, and again when it was freshly released.

[GaijinPunch]

As far as I can tell, yourself, Icy and NTSC-J are pretty much opposed to anything Raizing-style, so the "crap" comment is kind of subjective.

Whether you like Raizing-style games or not, Ibara was at the very least, a work of beauty. The rank and shitty looking bullets, on the other hand, are an acquired taste.

The problem w/ Pink Sweets is that it doesn't have the aesthetic qualities that any other Cave game have, including Ibara. On the surface, it seems substandard to all Cave games. The theme is pure cheese, and lets not forget the suicide-inducing soundtrack.

[Icarus]

Whether you like Raizing-style games or not, Ibara was at the very least, a work of beauty. The rank and shitty looking bullets, on the other hand, are an acquired taste.

The problem w/ Pink Sweets is that it doesn't have the aesthetic qualities that any other Cave game have, including Ibara. On the surface, it seems substandard to all Cave games. The theme is pure cheese, and lets not forget the suicide-inducing soundtrack.

The thing is though, the aesthetic qualities are pretty intentional. I have a feeling that the game isn't meant to be taken seriously, hence all the cheesecake, toy robots and fanservice. But looking past the outer layer, the game might have an extremely deep gameplay system that rivals anything Cave have put out. Think Parodius: on the outside it looks like Gradius with cute shit; but factor in all the different scoring methods, gameplay depth, character balance and near vicious rank (for the arcade variants at least) that will crucify anyone who takes the game too lightly, and you have a killer combination.

And that is what interests me about Pink Sweets.

[GaijinPunch]

I'm pretty simple when it comes to games. If I don't like it the first time I play it, I'm probably not going to like it down the road either. That's just me though.

[EOJ]

* Bullet-Eater
Something not seen in many Raizing games besides Ibara Arrange/Kuro is bullet-eating. This game seems to like throwing a lot of bullets at you, pretty much forcing you to use the charge aura/bomb. Maybe a portion of points come from juicing big patterns with the bomb for points? Estimated 3mil from bullet eating perhaps...

You know, this is one of the things that I like the most about the game, and also the one that is most reminiscent of ikaruga. Just like Ikaruga, in PS you absorb bullets to fill a charge meter, then release a bomb via that meter. Rinse and repeat. It's really cool Cave finally adapted this idea in one of their own games. I think it'll really appeal to people who really loved and played the hell out of Ikaruga (like myself).

[Rastan78]

I'm pretty simple when it comes to games. If I don't like it the first time I play it, I'm probably not going to like it down the road either. That's just me though.

Probably would explain why you're not so much into the Raizing stuff. They tend to be leaner on the bullet curtain eye candy but really focus on having a more than meets the eye scoring system.

Even watching a superplay of a game like Dimahoo, things that were really hard to pull off won't be impressive to a casual observer since they might either go completely unnoticed or not be understood. The typical Cave game seems to be geared towards having the patterns always remain visually impressive right off the bat. A casual observer would always be thinking, "Wow, how did they doge that?" even on the easiest patterns. Personally, I look more to the scoring system of a game than the bullet patterns. I like a game to have points coming from a lot of different sources simultaneously rather than one main mechanic such as chaining, so I'm more into Raizing and Seibu (Raizing Fighters) stuff.

[Icarus]

You know, this is one of the things that I like the most about the game, and also the one that is most reminiscent of ikaruga. Just like Ikaruga, in PS you absorb bullets to fill a charge meter, then release a bomb via that meter. Rinse and repeat. It's really cool Cave finally adapted this idea in one of their own games. I think it'll really appeal to people who really loved and played the hell out of Ikaruga (like myself).

I think the main difference between Ika and PS is that with Ika you have an "always on" shield that did the bullet-eating, and that switching polarity created a more fixed route through stages. PS's bullet-eating is more akin to Radirgy, a more dynamic bullet-eating shield that is also part of your offensive capabilities, and one that is not always meant for a defensive purpose.

I think that's one of the main factors in the difficulty of this game, that most players will probably use the bullet-eating aura and bomb as a defensive shield, when really it should be used as an attacking weapon. Similar in focus to Guwange with use of the Shikigami as a coin-collector and pre-emptive weapon and not as a defensive barrier.

I remember that there were a few replays on this page that demonstrated the bullet-eating scoring mechanic.

[EOJ]

Well, the bullet-eating in Ikaruga was actually very offensive in many ways. It was the only way to charge your shield and release laser attacks. Those who did not offensively (and aggressively) bullet-eat in Ikaruga had poorer scores, provided they chained well. There is no more of a 'fixed route' in Ikaruga than in another other shmup btw.

In PS there are many parts of the game where it's impossible not to bullet eat, and that is inherently defensive. Look at some of the boss patterns, with screen-filling bullet-streams. Reminds me of the Tageri boss fight in Ikaruga, where you have to quickly absorb then release lasers to attack the boss. I think you're correct in your assumption that one will need to aggressively exploit the bullet-eating in PS for a benefit in the score, which is much like Ikaruga.

[Rastan78]

PS's bullet-eating is more akin to Radirgy, a more dynamic bullet-eating shield that is also part of your offensive capabilities, and one that is not always meant for a defensive purpose.

I think that's one of the main factors in the difficulty of this game, that most players will probably use the bullet-eating aura and bomb as a defensive shield, when really it should be used as an attacking weapon.

Reminds me also of playing w/ Niigi G.B. in Shikigami 2. That was a fun character.

[Icarus]

Reminds me also of playing w/ Niigi G.B. in Shikigami 2. That was a fun character.

The charge aura in PS would appear to have quite a bit in common with both forms of Niigi and how she is played in Shikigami 2 - using the aura/shield to eat bullets, then releasing the charge as an attack for more points. I think Niigi players, and certainly players familiar with the likes of Mars Matrix will do well in PS.

Just been revisiting Recca, the game PS draws a lot of inspiration from, and lots of techniques from Recca could be adapted to this game, with regards to selective weapon selection, hoarding surplus items for points and dropping that charge bomb on enemies. Recca certainly shares that vicious rank system that kicks in when any scoring attempts are made, and fast moving lines of drones that attack from all sides.

Well, the bullet-eating in Ikaruga was actually very offensive in many ways. It was the only way to charge your shield and release laser attacks. Those who did not offensively (and aggressively) bullet-eat in Ikaruga had poorer scores, provided they chained well. There is no more of a 'fixed route' in Ikaruga than in another other shmup btw.

In PS there are many parts of the game where it's impossible not to bullet eat, and that is inherently defensive. Look at some of the boss patterns, with screen-filling bullet-streams. Reminds me of the Tageri boss fight in Ikaruga, where you have to quickly absorb then release lasers to attack the boss. I think you're correct in your assumption that one will need to aggressively exploit the bullet-eating in PS for a benefit in the score, which is much like Ikaruga.

You have a good point there. There are some sections that require defensive usage of the charge aura/bomb, but they appear towards the end of the game, and if anything it's still better to go in with it as an attack rather than backing off and using it as a forward shield.

The charge aura/bomb certainly adds a more interesting dimension to what would essentially be a standard Raizing medal-based game.

[NTSC-J]

As far as I can tell, yourself, Icy and NTSC-J are pretty much opposed to anything Raizing-style, so the "crap" comment is kind of subjective.

Not at all! In fact, Garegga is one of my favorite shooters ever and one of the only things I've been playing recently. I also really liked Ibara and owned Batrider for a long time before eventually trading it off.

PS just isn't any fun to me. At all, really. I've tried it maybe 15 or 20 times in the hopes that I would get pulled in, but it's just sort of aggravating to play. I think the graphics look pretty ugly (aside from stage 6 and those cool clouds, plus some of the bullet patterns) and the music is annoying. Maybe if I owned it and experimented I could find a way to enjoy it, but it is a very acquired taste.

Judging by the reactions it got at HEY, most other players agree. Consider this: when a shooter comes out, HEY gets 3 boards, then they remove them over time depending on how well they do. Shiki 3, Exelica, Ketsui, and Galuda II all still have 2 boards out to play, while as soon as Mushi 2 came out, PS got knocked down to one cab only. And it's a very frigid cab, almost as cold as Ibara Black Label.

Also, to clarify I don't think it's crap. I just think it's Cave's worst game...so buyers beware!

[Plasmo]

pink sweets definitely is a great game for every raizing fan and i enjoyed it quite a lot.
what i found out about it is that you actually get MORE points for NOT using your bomb.So its best to get the napalm for example and just shoot everything esp the bosses (like in the kasumi replay) absorbing shots doesnt give you anything really (maybe 500k for the nastiest bullet pattern)
oh and btw: try to bomb the second line of trees in stage 1 and you get the infamous flamingoes flying out ^_^

[ill6]

"And it's a very frigid cab, almost as cold as Ibara Black Label"

By this Do you mean that no-one is playing BL in Hey?

Do people still play Ibara?

[NTSC-J]

"And it's a very frigid cab, almost as cold as Ibara Black Label"

By this Do you mean that no-one is playing BL in Hey?

Do people still play Ibara?

I've seen a couple people play BL, but only one person, in all of my visits to HEY over the past 7 months, has played Ibara. I think they may have removed it entirely. Before the INH DVD came out I would keep an eye on the cab to see if a master player would show the trick to the 29m+ scores, but the one guy that eventually did play couldn't clear the first level.

If we see a third game in the Ibara franchise I'll be amazed.

[EOJ]

The one guy on the Ibara DVD plays at a small arcade in the middle of nowhere, he says there's never more than 3 people in the place and usually he's by himself, so it's pretty quiet. I'll have to finish translating those Ibara interviews one of these days...

[Icarus]

I've seen a couple people play BL, but only one person, in all of my visits to HEY over the past 7 months, has played Ibara. I think they may have removed it entirely. Before the INH DVD came out I would keep an eye on the cab to see if a master player would show the trick to the 29m+ scores, but the one guy that eventually did play couldn't clear the first level.

If we see a third game in the Ibara franchise I'll be amazed.

I've never actually gone off popular opinion when considering purchases. I recall Ibara not being very popular after release, just like Pink Sweets, but as it turned out, Ibara is one of my favourites. Just because a bunch of people who frequent a popular Japanese arcade say it doesn't blow their socks off, doesn't mean it might not be to my taste, or it isn't good fun in some roundabout Raizing-like way.

And you should know by now that I have very weird taste. ^_-

I trust your opinion, of course, however I remain cautiously optimistic.

[bpe]

You know, this is one of the things that I like the most about the game, and also the one that is most reminiscent of ikaruga. Just like Ikaruga, in PS you absorb bullets to fill a charge meter, then release a bomb via that meter. Rinse and repeat.

Unfortunately this turns the game, and especially the boss-fights, into a turn based strategy game. That's my main reason for not liking it, it's not a shooter if it's f'ing turn based.

[Raidenfighter Kirkov]

As far as I can tell, yourself, Icy and NTSC-J are pretty much opposed to anything Raizing-style, so the "crap" comment is kind of subjective.

Whether you like Raizing-style games or not, Ibara was at the very least, a work of beauty. The rank and shitty looking bullets, on the other hand, are an acquired taste.

The problem w/ Pink Sweets is that it doesn't have the aesthetic qualities that any other Cave game have, including Ibara. On the surface, it seems substandard to all Cave games. The theme is pure cheese, and lets not forget the suicide-inducing soundtrack.

Applause ! Everything is said about this game.

Thank you.
RFK

[Icarus]

Applause ! Everything is said about this game.
Thank you.
RFK

If you hate it so much, sell your PCB kit to me. I'll give you $250 for it, since it is used goods. ^_-

[Raidenfighter Kirkov]

Applause ! Everything is said about this game.
Thank you.
RFK

If you hate it so much, sell your PCB kit to me. I'll give you $250 for it, since it is used goods. ^_-

I would if i hadn´t smashed it with a sledgehammer ok just bad joking.

I dont have a pink sweets pcb. I wont buy it until the price drops down to 200 us dollar.

Greetings
RFK