Damocles wrote:To me, Under Defeat is possibly the epitome of the shooter genre.
It's a damn fine shooter, that's for sure. One of my most played in 2006. I generally like it because the pace is a little slower than some of the recent shmup offerings in the past couple of years. Same reason I like Trizeal. I'd put UD and Trizeal as the best two shooters released in the past few years - but I'm strange
Even after 50 or so hours with the game, I'm still blown away by the intro to stage 5 - the eerie near-silence which snaps back to in-game reality is still one of my favoraite effects in any game.
llabnip - DaveB
Once more the light shines brightly in sector 2814.
Icarus wrote:
Oh, I forgot. People here spend more time arguing over upscaling, video signals and pretty explosions than actually playing the games. LOL.
Let's not get into that again, i'm getting flashbacks
May gameplay nazis and graphics whores leave in peace ever after.
Icarus wrote:Y'know, not everyone buys games for w00t PRETTY GFX.
I'd rather have some ugly-looking graphics with at least a bit of variety or a bit of style than generic tanks, choppers and ships with FANCY FIREWORKS. I get enough of the generic looking crap playing Raiden, kthx. Raiden > Under Defeat, too.
Did I mention UD is very boring to play?
You know, if you feel that playing UD is boring that's alright with me, fair enough, that's your opinion. But writing stuff like "Raiden > UD" is just nonsense. Do you really mean Raiden I?! I'm pretty sure that the lack of variety among the designs is a deliberate design decision that makes the whole scenario look like a slightly futuristic present day war. Sure it doesn't have the one-of-a-kind aesthetics of Ikaruga but on the other hand the vehicles are just amazingly detailed. I think what you describe as "generic" is actually a more realistic approach to vehicle designs.
Under Defeat is boring score wise, so it's only good for survival, which is easy for the first few stages. So you have to play it a loooooooooong time for it to get exciting, kinda like Batsugun Special, which sucks. I mean I could've gotten into the 2nd loop with a bit more practice but it just wasn't worth it. I guess I should try it on a higher difficulty and see if it's more fun.
Dunno about original Raiden but DX is way more exciting than UD, definitely.
Necronom wrote:You know, if you feel that playing UD is boring that's alright with me, fair enough, that's your opinion. But writing stuff like "Raiden > UD" is just nonsense. Do you really mean Raiden I?! I'm pretty sure that the lack of variety among the designs is a deliberate design decision that makes the whole scenario look like a slightly futuristic present day war. Sure it doesn't have the one-of-a-kind aesthetics of Ikaruga but on the other hand the vehicles are just amazingly detailed. I think what you describe as "generic" is actually a more realistic approach to vehicle designs.
All Raidens* & Viper Phase 1 > Under Defeat. * does not include the crap that is Raiden 3
Especially the RF series and DX, excellent mechanical designs, highly detailed, without detracting from the gameplay. I don't go around inspecting every little detail on the tanks and planes in UD (because, you know, I'd prefer to play the game) but geez, even just glancing over the graphics you can see that they look kind of plain and plastic-like.
Icarus wrote:
* does not include the crap that is Raiden 3
Hyperbole. Underwhelming given what came before? Yes. Crap? Crap is what you throw away. I'm holding on to Raiden 3. Who knows, I might even play it again someday.
(it feels like I'm playing Under Defeat just looking at it... creepy)
So this is how you got your 2000 and something posts, right? Interesting...Hey, Rob and Ica! Are you guys siamese twins or something? You know like sharing one brain and shit. It really makes me wonder.
Necronom wrote:So this is how you got your 2000 and something posts, right? Interesting...Hey, Rob and Ica! Are you guys siamese twins or something? You know like sharing one brain and shit. It really makes me wonder.
No. We just have a sense of humor, unlike some people.
Necronom wrote:So this is how you got your 2000 and something posts, right? Interesting...Hey, Rob and Ica! Are you guys siamese twins or something? You know like sharing one brain and shit. It really makes me wonder.
No. We just have a sense of humor, unlike some people.
Oooh, I see. Now, I'm so sorry. HAHAHA
Got a little bit off topic here, sorry people.
It's funny how some forum members tend to present their (mostly hyperbolic) opinions on certain games as if it were some kind of moral absolute. I'm not demanding that everyone should like to play UD, but I think anyone who claims it's "sooo boring" or "crap-looking" is going way out of their way to try and find more faults with the game than exist. Also these people seem not to realize that not liking something does not necessarily preclude one from acknowledging its merits.
Anyway, back to Under Defeat. What's so great about the game can be summed up in two quotes:
"The essence of the shooting game is blowing things up and getting a really nice explosion" or words to that effect (Hiroyuki Maruyama in the French Shooting Documentary)
"In Kazakhstan we say that if you shoot gun it makes you feel like a MAN!" (Borat)
i liked raiden 3's system better than under defeat (spam weapons weaker than main shot to get 2x points what?)
and on the graphics/feel end under defeat's weapons save for the rocket lounger were pretty shitty compared to even the green laser in raiden 3
also raiden 3 is 100% less psikyo
still not a very good game, though
so long and tanks for all the spacefish unban shw <Megalixir> now that i know garegga is faggot central i can disregard it entirely
<Megalixir> i'm stuck in a hobby with gays
Necronom wrote:So this is how you got your 2000 and something posts, right?
translating...
Necronom wrote:I don't bother reading the strategy and high score forums because i don't really play these games
so long and tanks for all the spacefish unban shw <Megalixir> now that i know garegga is faggot central i can disregard it entirely
<Megalixir> i'm stuck in a hobby with gays
Does it now? I never played psyvariar. I thought you were supposed to see how close you could get to the bullets without actually hitting them. Kind of like how little kids dare each other to see how far they can climb up a tree until one of them falls off and hits his head.
Pirate1019 wrote:I thought you were supposed to see how close you could get to the bullets without actually hitting them.
That's a part of it, though once you graze/shoot enough shuff to fill your meter and "level up" you get a moment of invincibility, during which you usually want to rush headlong into bullets to refill the meter as much as you can (in Revision and 2, ideally you want the thing to refill and "level up" again before the last one runs out, so you're pretty much continually invincible. It's not as easy as it sounds).
Though of course if running into bullets is a gauge of manliness, I've got more testosterone in me than the rest of the forum put together.
Actually, now that you explained it, I remember learning that somewhere. It seemed way to cheap to me but I always underestimate things and it probably is way harder then it sounds. The only kind of experience I have had at psyvariar is the 'Psy' mode in Kenta Cho's rRootage, which is grossly simplified.
Pirate1019 wrote:Actually, now that you explained it, I remember learning that somewhere. It seemed way to cheap to me but I always underestimate things and it probably is way harder then it sounds. The only kind of experience I have had at psyvariar is the 'Psy' mode in Kenta Cho's rRootage, which is grossly simplified.
i though it was cheap at first too. i didnt like the system at all, and thought it was constricting. Then i started actually playing it, and seeing how genius it was. now there are few things more exhilarating then leveling up, diving into more bullets to level up again, and rolling body crushing every enemey on screen
This thread sounds like "shmup lounge chat". It doesn't help that most comments are right cheesy/off-topic/anti-communist (but Neon will pay for this!!1!).
Aside that, I enjoy Under Defeat as a simple and nice title. Not particularly fast-paced or elaborated in gameplay, but that's a nice diversion. I like the second boss battle, i have to admit (and the soundtrack by Megaten Hosoe).
Random racial slur of the moment: Adele looks very "Northern German", in my mind. Actually, she looks like a slimmer version of two good friends of mine from Lübeck. I also admit that their uniforms look good, Hugo Boss ftw
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."
