XRGB-3

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:22 am

OK... so my tv has component and hdmi inputs. Would i be able to hook the xrgb up via the DVI out to the HDMI port? I know there is analouge and digital DVI. I would imagine it would have to output to digital DVI for me to plug it into the HDMI port with an adapter?

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:33 am

Fake scanlines on the XRGB2 work by way of blanking every third line.

It does a very good job.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:44 am

Fake scanlines on the XRGB2 work by way of blanking every third line.

It does a very good job.

i'd have to find a xrgb2 apparently for this though and can only find a 3.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 5:52 am

XRGB2+'s are quite commonly sold used. If your not using PCB's the 2 isn't worth the extra money.

You know that the older models don't carry DVI or component and do not support progressive scan in any shape or form right? (I mean on the input side).

I currently have a XRGB2 with all JAP21 RGB cables for all my RGB enabled consoles. I like it especially for 2D games, 3D games tend to have a grainier look especially during FMV.

The fake scanlines option also affects brightness in a big way, if you turn it on the brightness goes down about 20%, if you turn it off it gets 20% brighter but it looks too MAME'y. It took me about 8 or so hours to get all the options configured how I wanted it. Make sure with the genesis you do not adjust your settings because for some stupid reason the RGB cables for Genesis are overly bright due to arcade type brightness levels from the machine.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:04 am

XRGB2+'s are quite commonly sold used

any idea as to where I could find one? i still need to know if the DVI signal coming out of the XRGB3 is digital or not.

fubarduck · Post by **fubarduck** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:09 am

Craiji wrote:They will not respond in English I have tried had to resend all emails in Japanese, I swear scan lines were in the options menu also I will look again when I get home

More like B1 mode: 1024~768/1280~1024/1600~1200 output resolutions, VGA or DVI, and lag

B0: D1- 640~480 at 60 Hz (so lines doubled) D2- 640~480 at 60 Hz D3- 1920~1080 at 30 Hz (DAMN!) and D4- 1280~720 at 60 Hz for resolutions, VGA only, and no lag

Actually, you've got the two reversed. B0 mode is the default mode that the XRGB-3 starts out in with the 3 output resolutions, VGA/DVI, and lag.

B1 is the other one!

Strider77 wrote:any idea as to where I could find one? i still need to know if the DVI signal coming out of the XRGB3 is digital or not.

Yes, the DVI signal in B0 mode is DVI-D (Digital).

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 6:26 am

ok great! all my misunderstandings and questions have been sorted out. except for the xrgb3 and the fake scanlines. I guess I could be in denial about them not being in the 3 model but it would make my choice easier if it were an option.

ugh... you know honestly most of this is to make my saturn look flawless on my HDTV or well near close to it. my saturn games look all right and I think using something better than s-video would solve any issues I have from the picture I'm getting now. but the xrgb sounds like my best option to kill alot of birds with one stone but I'd really to have those scanlines back if i had the choice.

if I seem I'm impatient it's b/c I want to make a decision before the place sells out of the XRGB again.

if I had the room I'd just by a really nice SDTV again.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:43 am

God i just looked at some 2D games on the DC via my VGA transcoder for the billionth time. I'm consistantly amazed by it. Does the XRGB3 have an effect even close to what 2D looks like on DC via VGA? If so I'm sold scan lines or not.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:08 am

Are you talking about 2D games like Ikaruga or Guilty Gear X which are hires polygons or are you talking about Capcom/SNK 2d?

Low res 2D doesn't look that hot through VGA tbh.

XRGB's won't give you VGA cable quality on hires 2D, with the fake scanlines and such it can make low res 2D games look better. Depends on your application.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 8:29 am

I was talking about Capcom/SNK 2d, not guilty gear x ect. I know it won't magically make something low res into high res.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Tue Oct 24, 2006 9:44 am

Capcom 2D style looks kinda mamed without scanlines on the XRGB. It looks great with scanlines. Of course something like CapvsSNK2 is sort of a hybrid since sprites are low res and backgrounds are hires. In that case I just stick with the VGA cable option. I believe its arcade counterpart was displayed at 31khz?

I'm very pleased with the XRGB with RGB cables.. But that might pose a problem, since they are not commonly sold in the west. Svideo on the XRGB pales in comparison imo.

If you get the respective cables for your older consoles, you will be very happy.

What I don't like about the XRGB is that PS2 is a pain in the ass. If you choose RGB in the dash and then want to watch DVD's you have to change back to component. The PSone stuff through the PS2 RGB cable looks fantastic, so I often switch back and forth between the games that look better through the XRGB and those that look better via Component>VGA reverse transcoder.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:11 am

has anyone here actually hooked one of these up to a HDTV before or know someone who has? If so did they use the DVI? I'm getting told a few different things on being able to get that to go threw the hdmi port.

jdmishima · Post by **jdmishima** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:08 am

To my knowledge you cannot hook up the xrgb-3 through the hdmi port.

...or at least I have not found a way yet

I have been told this is true because you cannot run dual-link dvi (which the xrgb-3 has) through a hdmi input. I hope this helps.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:13 am

sounds right... I got this as a reply from NCSX about it.

Hi Tim, Splinter Cell DA is region free and the XRGB-3 can add fake scan lines but it cannot output a direct video signal to an HDMI port that supports HDCP.

Regards,
NCS, Inc

now I'm still confused about the fake scan lines though..

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:23 am

OK guys.... help me make a decision here.

I have located a XRGB2+ and a XRGB3. Which one does everyone think i should go for. Keep in mind I'm not making my decision on saving money and I am not going to pump anything that is progressive all ready threw this. It's mainly for my saturn, super famicom, mega drive, neo geo CDZ, and possibly my duo rx if I figure out a mod of some sort (and maybe my PS2 that i don't use for DVDs ever.

I'm probably sure everyone knows this by now but it's being hooked up to a HDTV.

Ugh I wish I could get a definitive answer on the scan line option and the XRGB3...

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:43 am

The features that the 3 gives over the 2+ are obsolete in your case.

The 2+ takes component via its japanese counterpart, is it called D4 or something like that? So in theory you could watch DVD's that way on a ps2.

DVI is a bonus of course.

I'm not too sure but I think the 3 has tons of Japanese menus, if the 2+ is like my 2, then it has mostly English menus with maybe 2 options that are in Japanese. I'm not totally sure about the 3 on this, i've just read this thread and alot of japanese seems to be rearing its ugly head.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:31 pm

Hi Tim, we were speaking to one of our employees and he corrected our information when he saw our last reply to you. We assumed you mean the line doubler option in our previous email but we saw that you were referring to the scanline option. The XRGB-3 actually no longer supports scanlines and the option has been removed from the functionality of the XRGB hardware entirely.

If you wish to use scanlines, he recommended the XRGB-2+. Apologies for the confusion caused.

well it looks like I have my answer and they told me otherwise and bothered to correct themselves (ncsx) so I think it's safe to bet on this. damn.... it looks like I'll get the xrgb2+. ugh that means i'm gonna have to get a scart selector box (I know the plug isn't for scart but a scart selector box should work fine since I'll be shoving Jpn RGB cords in it.)

DVI is a bonus of course

what could i do with this with a HDTV? I CAN use DVD-D to go to HDMI, I know this for a fact.

is it DVI-A, DVI-D or DVI-I?

Yes, the DVI signal in B0 mode is DVI-D (Digital).

totally lost now, I'm getting contradicting replies

jdmishima · Post by **jdmishima** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:52 pm

Again, I can tell you for sure that the DVI will not work through the HDMI on my DLP HDTV.

To my knowledge the xrgb-3 does use DVI-D, but it is dual link not single link. HDMI only allows single link DVI to be tranfered through the input.

I hope this helps.

I learned all this the hard way because I found all this after I had already recieved my xrgb-3. However with the recent updates to the firmware it has done it's job for me of elimating lag on my sammy dlp.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:24 pm

neorichieb1971 wrote: The fake scanlines option also affects brightness in a big way, if you turn it on the brightness goes down about 20%, if you turn it off it gets 20% brighter but it looks too MAME'y. It took me about 8 or so hours to get all the options configured how I wanted it.

Just an FYI, the xrgb-2+ has more fake scanlines adjustments than the xrgb-2. By setting scanlines to level 2 of 4 on the xrgb-2+, the picture is much brighter (and the scanlines look equally as good) than the xrgb-2.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:50 pm

Strider77 wrote:OK guys.... help me make a decision here.

I have located a XRGB2+ and a XRGB3. Which one does everyone think i should go for. Keep in mind I'm not making my decision on saving money and I am not going to pump anything that is progressive all ready threw this. It's mainly for my saturn, super famicom, mega drive, neo geo CDZ, and possibly my duo rx if I figure out a mod of some sort (and maybe my PS2 that i don't use for DVDs ever.

I'm probably sure everyone knows this by now but it's being hooked up to a HDTV.

Ugh I wish I could get a definitive answer on the scan line option and the XRGB3...

My current primary gaming set-up is utilizing my computer as a scaler and outputting via DVI/HDMI to my HDTV. Like yours, my HDTV does not have a vga input. I also have a Xrgb-2+/Audio authority 9A60/component set-up which is essentially the same set-up you are currently contemplating. The picture quality looks great, but be aware, if you are using the audio authority vga converter you will get underscan/overscan. On my set-up I have an underscan problem which prevents me from filling the entire screen with the gaming picture resulting in black bars on each side. Doesn't bother me as I'm playing on a 42'' display.

Regarding xrgb-2+ vs. x-rgb-3, if the xrgb-3 does not have fake scanline options, I would get the xrgb-2+. Without the fake scanlines, the picture would look way too blocky via the xrgb-3 on your HDTV.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:58 pm

My current primary gaming set-up is utilizing my computer as a scaler and outputting via DVI/HDMI to my HDTV. Like yours, my HDTV does not have a vga input. I also have a Xrgb-2+/Audio authority 9A60/component set-up which is essentially the same set-up you are currently contemplating. The picture quality looks great, but be aware, if you are using the audio authority vga converter you will get underscan/overscan. On my set-up I have an underscan problem which prevents me from filling the entire screen with the gaming picture resulting in black bars on each side. Doesn't bother me as I'm playing on a 42'' display.

Regarding xrgb-2+ vs. x-rgb-3, if the xrgb-3 does not have fake scanline options, I would get the xrgb-2+. Without the fake scanlines, the picture would look way too blocky via the xrgb-3 on your HDTV.

My transcoder allows me to adjust the Hori and Vert position/size so that is no problem. And with all the input, the XRGB2+ is deffinately the better choice for my needs. I've located one for 200 so I'm sold.

Thanks alot guys you've all been VERY helpful. I could have wound up spending over 300 for something that I didn't want versus 200 for something that I do want.

Now does anyone know where I can get japanese RGB cables for my systems?

Saturn
Neo Geo CDZ
Super Famicom
Mega Drive

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:37 pm

Ok... it's done. I just paid for the XRGB2+. Once i get it my setup will be DONE!!!

Except for a selector box and RGB cords that is.

fubarduck · Post by **fubarduck** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:54 pm

Wanderer wrote: Just an FYI, the xrgb-2+ has more fake scanlines adjustments than the xrgb-2. By setting scanlines to level 2 of 4 on the xrgb-2+, the picture is much brighter (and the scanlines look equally as good) than the xrgb-2.

Thanks, that cleared it up for me. I owned both an XRGB-2 and an XRGB-2+, and I was thinking the XRGB-3 had that option (of 2 to 4 levels of scanlines). However, I think I was thinking about the XRGB-2+. Sorry for all the confusion. So, quick chart:

XRGB-2: Scanlines on or off (1 level of scanlines)
XRGB-2+: Four levels of scanlines
XRGB-3: No scanlines

I got confused about scanlines as well since I don't personally use them myself, sorry!

Strider77 wrote:Thanks alot guys you've all been VERY helpful. I could have wound up spending over 300 for something that I didn't want versus 200 for something that I do want.

Cool, I think the XRGB-2+ is probably better suited for your needs too. Let us know how it turns out.

Wanderer wrote:My current primary gaming set-up is utilizing my computer as a scaler and outputting via DVI/HDMI to my HDTV. Like yours, my HDTV does not have a vga input.

What kind of video card/scaling software are you using for that process? I have a video card that outputs DVI, but I could never find a way to input signals that didn't lag. I get pretty bad lag through the S-Video on my capture card even if I output straight to my PC Monitor with DScaler, for example.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 10:27 am

fubarduck wrote: What kind of video card/scaling software are you using for that process? I have a video card that outputs DVI, but I could never find a way to input signals that didn't lag. I get pretty bad lag through the S-Video on my capture card even if I output straight to my PC Monitor with DScaler, for example.

Ok, stating the PC scaler was my "primary" set-up is a little misleading. It's more like my "experimental" set-up as I only recently purchased the necessary capture card.

Input: PDI deluxe component capture card used to capture PS2 video signal.
Software: Dscaler
Output: DVI to HDMI 720p/1080i via Geforce 6800 graphics card

So far the picture quality only looks marginally better than plugging the PS2 component cables directly into the HDTV. Once I start tweaking dscaler, I'm confident i can improve the picture enough to justify the purchase of the capture card. As of now the main advantage of the set-up is playing tate mode without rotating the TV by utilizing the graphics card's pivot feature. Regarding lag, so far I have detected none. Maybe your lag is due to your CPU processor?

BTW, what settings are you using for dscaler?

fubarduck · Post by **fubarduck** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 3:13 pm

Wanderer wrote:
fubarduck wrote: What kind of video card/scaling software are you using for that process? I have a video card that outputs DVI, but I could never find a way to input signals that didn't lag. I get pretty bad lag through the S-Video on my capture card even if I output straight to my PC Monitor with DScaler, for example.
Ok, stating the PC scaler was my "primary" set-up is a little misleading. It's more like my "experimental" set-up as I only recently purchased the necessary capture card.

Input: PDI deluxe component capture card used to capture PS2 video signal.
Software: Dscaler
Output: DVI to HDMI 720p/1080i via Geforce 6800 graphics card

So far the picture quality only looks marginally better than plugging the PS2 component cables directly into the HDTV. Once I start tweaking dscaler, I'm confident i can improve the picture enough to justify the purchase of the capture card. As of now the main advantage of the set-up is playing tate mode without rotating the TV by utilizing the graphics card's pivot feature. Regarding lag, so far I have detected none. Maybe your lag is due to your CPU processor?

BTW, what settings are you using for dscaler?

I have a Supergun that outputs both RGB and S-Video simultaneously. I use the RGB to output to my XRGB-2+ and the S-Video to the capture card in my PC so I can capture.

Even when I'm not capturing, though, (DScaler running side by side with a different monitor or HDTV on the XRGB-2+) there is a very clear delay in DScaler with any of the deinterlacing modes. The delay is probably at least 7 or 8 frames, which for me, is enough to notice without even needing a side-by-side comparison. The CPU is a bit old (Athlon XP 2400+) but I've been leaning towards believing that DScaler is to blame for the lag. If you have any time sensitive games that you can test side-by-side you'd be more likely to notice.

What are your CPU specs, and what deinterlacing mode are you using?

TenguNose · Post by **TenguNose** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:59 pm

I got my XRGB-3 a few days ago from plays-asia.com; I'm excited to use it and play video games on either one of my monitors or in Windows XP, but before I use it I would like to install its firmware update(s).

How do I d/l, and install this firmware update?

NOTE: I hardly know any Japanese. So sending me to Micomsoft's XRGB-3 web page, which may describe the firmware update but being all in Japanese, would not help!

Someone help, please!

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 9:33 pm

I just got my XRGB2+ in today. The units much smaller than I expected. I'm kinda SOL until i can get my hands on a RGB cable to check it out with though. I looked at the saturn with s video just to see if it worked ect. Still thats no real test of what it will really look like. At least I hope not....

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:47 am

S-Video compresses RGB into Chrominance - C (colour) and Intensity/Luminance - Y (Brightness). Technically speaking, luminance by itself was the signal the old black and white TVs and monitors used. S-Video just throws colour information over the top.

These Y/C signals are sent on separate wires with separate grounds. The Sync is sent with the Y signal.

"Component" is generally the shorthand method of describing YCrCb which goes one step further and splits the colour information up into the shift from green to red and the shift from green to blue. Mathematically speaking, from here you can easily generate the green information without penalty.

Quality wise, S-Video is noticeably above standard composite (which mashes Y and C into one cable). It is noticeably below RGB and YCrCb however. You should see a plain-as-day quality jump when you switch to RGB.

If you want to know more about the various signal, colour spaces and cable types, hit Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YCrCb
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YUV
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCART
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-video
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VGA_connector

pcb_revival · Post by **pcb_revival** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:54 pm

fubarduck wrote:
Wanderer wrote: My dream is still for something like this to become cheaper: http://gear.ign.com/articles/718/718587p1.html

Well the last comments sounded encourging.

Now the VP50 is out maybe Iscan will build a gamer affordable version all I want is a video processor that will convert Playstation 2 480i to 480p with no lag.

GameCube progressive titles have spoilt me.

fubarduck · Post by **fubarduck** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:41 am

pcb_revival wrote:
fubarduck wrote:
Wanderer wrote: My dream is still for something like this to become cheaper: http://gear.ign.com/articles/718/718587p1.html

Well the last comments sounded encourging.

Now the VP50 is out maybe Iscan will build a gamer affordable version all I want is a video processor that will convert Playstation 2 480i to 480p with no lag.

GameCube progressive titles have spoilt me.

The XRGB-2, XRGB-2+, and XRGB-3 (in B1 mode) all do this already (480i to 480p with no lag). However, the PS3 still poses a problem. Since PS3 doesn't do any upscaling for PS1/PS2 games, I would have to run it through an XRGB or iScan product in order to play the old games on it with no lag.

However, with PS3 still implementing the region lock for PS1/PS2 games (and over half of my PS2 game collection being Japanese) I'm better off just leaving my modded PS2 hooked up for PS1/PS2 gaming and just using the PS3 for PS3 games and Blu-Ray movies. My PS2 still seems to have a long life ahead of it.

Still, it's really too bad that PS3 does no upscaling. Still got my fingers crossed for a patch, but I won't count on it.

BTW, the Xploder HDTV Player from Blaze which was released last week can also be used to output any PS2 game in 480p straight from the PS2. It's just a boot-up disc that can unlock progressive scan in any game. Supposed to work pretty well.

shmups.system11.org

XRGB-3

XRGB-3 Firmware Update