Easy shmups

Monkey_Man · Post by **Monkey_Man** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:15 am

I've been playing shmups semi-seriously for a year or so now (ever since discovering rRootage and the joys of bulletweaving) but I still can't play them for shit. So, a few questions:

1) How long does it take you to get reasonably good? What is "good", anyway? How good were you in a year?
2) How hard is Ikaruga, relative to other shmups? People say it's crazy hard, but that's just relative to gaming in general. Of all the shmups, is Ikaruga harder than most, or easier?
3) As far as vert shmups go, what are the easiest ones, or at least the ones most helpful for getting better? (I don't really like any hori shmups other than Gradius. On that note, what's the easiest Gradius? I'm told Gaiden is easier than all of them. I've got 1-3 emulated and I bought 5 a while ago, which is the easiest out of those? Or should I buy Gaiden?)
4) Any general advice to a newbie shmupper?

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:24 am

Well, somebody else would probably be better for explaining what "good" means in shmupping. Kind of depends on how hard you try, or what you try for (score or 1cc's).

Ikaruga isn't the hardest I've played, but it's up there. (3rd chapter boss always gets me) I would rate it 7 out of 10 difficulty. Maybe an 8.

Easy, ones... probably some of the freeware shmups. Not Flying Shark. That's hard. Although starting easy and working your way up isn't the best idea. I just play what I want and slowly get better.

Be sure to at least try some hori stuff. I used to not like Horis too much, but then I played progear and a few others.

General Advice:
Play what you want. Don't force anything.
Don't credit feed. It's an act of heresy.

Try new stuff. Don't get locked into one game or type of game.
Get involved here. Like with the HighScore tables. It encourages practice and growth of talent. (It has for me)
Don't like Chaos Field for anything other than it's music.

Have fun!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:27 am

3) As far as vert shmups go, what are the easiest ones, or at least the ones most helpful for getting better?

Strikers 1945 II. You don't get better by playing baby mode. And playing something moderately hard while you're a beginner will feel all the more satisfying to beat.

Monkey_Man · Post by **Monkey_Man** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:28 am

Pirate1019 wrote:Easy, ones... probably some of the freeware shmups. Not Flying Shark. That's hard. Although starting easy and working your way up isn't the best idea. I just play what I want and slowly get better.

How difficult are the ABA games considered? What about the Touhou games (shoot the bullet in particular)?

Don't credit feed. It's an act of heresy.

That was another question I had. I usually play stuff like Ikaruga using whatever credits they give me. Should I just restart at the first continue or what?

Don't like Chaos Field for anything other than it's music.

Is it cool to like Radilgy?

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:30 am

I've been playing for about 2 and a half years/3 years and for the first year I sucked pretty much. I think I got about 20 to 30 million on DDP (first shooter I played aside from r-type on the spectrum) in that year.

You get better the longer and more you play. I used to think that I'd never get past the 4th boss of DDP and 4th of ESPRade, it just seemed too hard. Now they aren't so bad, it's just practise and familiarity.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:30 am

Monkey_Man wrote:Should I just restart at the first continue or what?

Practice however you want. If playing single credits is getting repetitive, play a little further with a few more.

Is it cool to like Radilgy?

No.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:37 am

Like whatever you want, if anything Chaos Field may improve your dodging skills.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:37 am

Rob wrote:
Monkey_Man wrote:Should I just restart at the first continue or what?
Practice however you want. If playing single credits is getting repetitive, play a little further with a few more.

Savestates in mame are also a good thing for learning later stages without the hassel of ploughing through several levels only get annihilated yet again.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:39 am

Rob wrote:
3) As far as vert shmups go, what are the easiest ones, or at least the ones most helpful for getting better?
Strikers 1945 II. You don't get better by playing baby mode. And playing something moderately hard while you're a beginner will feel all the more satisfying to beat.

Nothing has improved my skills as much as dedication to Psikyo games like Strikers and Gunbird 2. I still suck, but not as much. Excellent advice.

Post by **Icarus** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:52 am

Play Image Fight.
Or Garegga.
Or Dodonpachi Daioujou.

Seriously, playing the "easy" stuff slows your progression.
Dive into the deep end.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:53 am

Rob wrote:You don't get better by playing baby mode. And playing something moderately hard while you're a beginner will feel all the more satisfying to beat.

quotin dis

also seconding image fight

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:56 am

You might want to try ZUN's stuff, too. Both Perfect Cherry Blossom and Imperishable Night have generous extend systems, and will even give you a teensy bit of time to bomb your way out of danger AFTER you've been hit in some situations.

That, and they feature some really pretty, imaginative bullet patterns. And really cool unlockable game modes. And they're cheap.

Monkey_Man · Post by **Monkey_Man** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:02 am

I have PCB and IN on my computer already, actually.

Another question: is it better to play a bunch of different shmups at once, or focus on one or two at a time, until you master them?

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:04 am

Monkey_Man wrote:I have PCB and IN on my computer already, actually.

Another question: is it better to play a bunch of different shmups at once, or focus on one or two at a time, until you master them?

Monkey_Man · Post by **Monkey_Man** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:05 am

Thanks for the advice so far, everybody.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:06 am

ZUN's stuff is indeed good for manic shmup practice, it gives you enough leeway that you don't feel overwhelmed/cheated, but it doesn't treat you with kid gloves either, especially when playing for score...not to mention that there are 4 distinct difficulty settings in each game, so you can keep your high scores and such separate to better track your progress.

As for whether to stick to stuff or play lots of stuff, it depends on what you want: focusing on a single shmup will obviously make you better at it, but it can also get frustrating, so do whatever you enjoy, whether you prefer focusing or messing around a bit.

Stormwatch · Post by **Stormwatch** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:30 am

An easy shmup... Vapor Trail (Genesis) was pretty easy, and the GigaWing games (Dreamcast) were not too tough either.

Shalashaska · Post by **Shalashaska** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:47 am

Storm Blade on normal difficulty.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:22 am

I'd recommend Espgaluda if you can play import PS2 games. It's not overwhelmingly hard, has some great patterns and is pretty forgiving since you can't get killed in kakusei mode when you have some bomb left. Other than that, since you liked rRootage, I'd say grab Castle Shikigami 2 for PS2. The domestic release is cheap and has the obscene, crawly slowdown (unless you turn it off that is) that made dodging in rRootage so fun.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:22 am

professor ganson wrote:
Rob wrote:
3) As far as vert shmups go, what are the easiest ones, or at least the ones most helpful for getting better?
Strikers 1945 II. You don't get better by playing baby mode. And playing something moderately hard while you're a beginner will feel all the more satisfying to beat.
Nothing has improved my skills as much as dedication to Psikyo games like Strikers and Gunbird 2. I still suck, but not as much. Excellent advice.

Thirded, Strikers 2 was my first 1cc, great game for getting better.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:41 am

Monkey_Man wrote:I have PCB and IN on my computer already, actually.

Another question: is it better to play a bunch of different shmups at once, or focus on one or two at a time, until you master them?

Depends if you really want to master those two games you are playing. Me, I play almost exclusively for fun, occasionally for score, but only to best myself. I don't have enough drive to work up to the really high scores.

ABA games are moderate in difficulty on normal settings. The thing is that most of them go on for eternity (Noiz2sa on endless, Gunroar, Parsec 47 I think...) and feature a random bullet pattern generator, so it's hard to gauge difficulty. Most feature different difficulties though, so you can up the challenge. They are what got me hooked on shmups.

They are all right. Stating off easy isn't the best option. Start moderate and climb from there.

Oh, and when I said credit-feeding is heresy, I was sort of exaggerating, but I try not to fall into the habit.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:42 am

Go for the 16-bit shmups. With the exception of UndeadLine.

Super Aleste/Megaforce, R-Type 3, Super EDF, MUSHA, Gley Lancer, Thunderforce 2, 3 and 5 (Ok, that's 32 bit), Darius Force/SuperNova.. fun without suffering. I almost forgot Lords and Gate of Thunder.

SamIAm · Post by **SamIAm** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:46 am

Storm Blade and Battle Bakraid are easy 1CCs which should still help you develop some skills and discipline. Many people will tell you to go for the hard stuff, and they do have a point, but if you're not a hardcore play-every-day-for-hours gamer, these titles can deliver some good satisfaction and true shmupping action. PCBs aside, though, there's no way to get them other than MAME.

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 4:58 am

Monkey_Man wrote:1) How long does it take you to get reasonably good? What is "good", anyway? How good were you in a year?

I've been into shooters for about 2.5 years, but I've never been much of a "serious" player. I play until I don't feel like I'm having fun anymore, and then I go do something else. So I won't dish out any advice on what it takes to get good...I'll just recommend that you don't shy away from shmupping for fun's sake. If being a shooter expert is fun for you, then by all means, brush up on your skills. [/gradius V quote]

2) How hard is Ikaruga, relative to other shmups? People say it's crazy hard, but that's just relative to gaming in general. Of all the shmups, is Ikaruga harder than most, or easier?

I have a really tough time with Ikaruga. Even using a Dualshock 2 adapter (I have the GC version of Ikaruga), which I'm much more comfortable with, I have a tough time adapting to the polarity gameplay. It seems I can never remember which color bullets will kill me at this particular nanosecond. It's not the bullet patterns or speed or anything - it's just that damn polarity thing, and the fact that the entire game is built around it.

I don't really like any hori shmups other than Gradius. On that note, what's the easiest Gradius? I'm told Gaiden is easier than all of them. I've got 1-3 emulated and I bought 5 a while ago, which is the easiest out of those? Or should I buy Gaiden?

I absolutely adore Gradius Gaiden. It's not just one of my favorite shooters, it's one of my favorite games, period. But it's the Gradius series that got me into shooters in the first place, so I'm partial to the series. But anyway, I'd say the original Gradius is somewhat easier than Gradius Gaiden. The final level of Gradius is about on par with anything Gaiden will throw at you, but the game is so much shorter, there's a great deal less to learn, and less time spent on each playthrough. But just to be sure, you should pick up both.

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:06 am

I'd say Gunbird is a wonderful beginner's game, then move onto Strikers II for heavier stuff.
For easy console games, Thunder Force 2 or 3, have your pick.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 5:44 am

not that i'm a master but i'd split my time between just a couple.

play one that is a managable sort: Strikers II for example. it's not exceedingly difficult but there is some challenge to be found there.

and then on the side take on a real sum' bitch: like ddp dai ou jou (lots of fast patterns, that also tend to quite thick) or some raiden dx (good for very fast aimed shots). this will really help performance in the "doable" game. i noticed a marked improvement in my playing when i include a monster in my playlist. dangun feveron is amazing as well in this regard.

as far as the gradius question goes. first one is easiest hands down. gofer's the best so go with that one, though

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:35 am

best advice i can give:

take what people say with a grain of salt. play every shmup you can get your hands on and enjoy the hell out of them.
if someone else doesnt like one that doesnt mean you wont like it. you may love it.
if you feel like playing on easy mode, play on easy mode. if you want to credit feed, do so. thats why its there. dont listen to people that tell you what games are "cool to play" and which ones are not. enjoy yourself. anyone who tells you otherwise is probably an elitist asshat. dont listen to them.

the beauty of a shmup is you get to blast the shit out of everything on the screen.

if it takes you a year to get "good" then who cares.. if you find that youre a natural and you can twitch dodge your way through chaos field after 3 days, even better. have fun dude, and welcome to shmupville.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:50 am

I never did beat Bakraid when I had it.

I guess im a novice.

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:13 am

neorichieb1971 wrote:I never did beat Bakraid when I had it.

I guess im a novice.

you n00B!

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:36 am

Monkey_Man wrote:Is it cool to like Radilgy?

Yes.

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