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Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:32 am

Wait a minute, so "arcade" has the wider, larger format and original is narrower with horizontal panning? You make it sound like the modes are exactly the same except for the panning. Does the (Type-X) arcade version have panning?

How bad is the loading exactly?

Tychom · Post by **Tychom** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:45 am

I'm trying to think how best to describe it, basically the 'original' mode takes up perhaps 2/3rds of the screen width, the rest being rather bland borders. The view of the stage you get is just like in the Type-X from what I recall - as you move to the left or right you get to see the whole of width of the stage, much like in every Cave game and many shooters in general - you only see down onto part of the stage at any point.
The 'arcade' mode (named that way for some reason I don't get) fills maybe 3/4ths of the screen and you can see the entire width of each stage as far as I can tell.

So yeah, the two modes I'm pretty sure are basically identical, just down to preference. I'll play it more tonight and get more thoughts down.

Kron · Post by **Kron** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:49 am

You have the original and arcade descriptions mixed up.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:24 am

Hmm, that's rather shite about the lack of tate, looks like I won't be buying this.

Dammit, why is it all the new 2d stuff on ps2 is sucking? First Fighting Jam and now this.

Post by **system11** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:19 pm

As long as one of the modes is the same aspect and play area as the arcade (just zoomed and rotated), I'm happy, and it means everyone can play the game properly, not just those who have on-their-sideable TVs.

I'll be less happy if the frame rate does indeed suck, that's something that shouldn't be got wrong. My preorder won't ship until Dragon Blaze is out, so I've still got time to cancel if that's the case.

Cugel · Post by **Cugel** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:45 pm

It sounds like a disappointment. Too bad I can't cancel as my order already shipped. If I don't like it, I'll be selling it on the trading forum. My loss is your gain

I cancelled my Psikyo 3 for this dog.

I hope Dragon Blaze doesn't have any issues like frame rate.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:49 pm

whoops seems i was wrong, but happens to the best :p

so, no tate and 30 fps? first off i have a small tv for shmups and no tate = no game basically, id rather play something i can see, and dont mention some wobble mode...lol

and 30 fps? this is worse than no tate, if i wanted 30 fps, id play all these console...fps (first person shooters)

seriously...DEL got me exited over nothing, but its okay, dragon blaze is still coming

Darkcomet72 · Post by **Darkcomet72** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:50 pm

Oh, you people and your TATE.

However, I'm worried about the Frameskip... I'd rather have slowdown, cause Frameskip completely messes up my concentration.

MadSteelDarkness · Post by **MadSteelDarkness** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:15 pm

No....tate?....

DEL · Post by **DEL** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:57 pm

The vagrant - Previously (March 18th) DEL wrote:-

"GWG won't score high in any magazine review. The graphics are substandard (last time I played it) and the gameplay presents nothing new (except perhaps the Point-Blanking). So in review terms, it simply can't score high.
But this is where reviews miss the point - Its a scoring game, pure and simple. All I can say is that I enjoyed it and I will buy it."

I'm surprised that this got you worked up to buy the game.

Of course, I still stand by my comments.

No Worries, DEL

Ord · Post by **Ord** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 4:59 pm

To say that i am somwhat dissapointed is a severe understatement. I ordered mine along with Trizeal. i think i'll wait for a few more hands on impressions before i cancel Gigawing Generations.

Post by **Dave_K.** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 6:30 pm

Ord wrote:To say that i am somwhat dissapointed is a severe understatement. I ordered mine along with Trizeal. i think i'll wait for a few more hands on impressions before i cancel Gigawing Generations.

I am in the same boat with Trizeal in my order. Since I play my PS2 inside a real cab with rotated screen, tate is pretty important to me. Can anyone else confirm this 30fps issue?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:09 pm

If the wider mode is the exact same thing as the arcade mode, I can't see why tate is a big deal. Remember Giga Wing 1 and 2? I must be the only one pleased that it might end up being a near traditionally wide Giga Wing. I can't imagine why a "huge Giga Wing fan" would be so put off by this. And then there's arcade mode if you must wobble.

Since I play my PS2 inside a real cab with rotated screen, tate is pretty important to me.

You only play PS2 games in tate?

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:19 pm

GigaWing was never a fantastic series to begin with, but the DC versions were not TATE and nobody complained. TATE is cool, but if it doesn't have it I gues you'll have to judge on gameplay and not presentation.

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:32 pm

TATE is cool, but if it doesn't have it I gues you'll have to judge on gameplay and not presentation.

Yeah, I know my remark might have seemed Recap-esque, but I dunno...just play for example Dodonpachi in TATE vs. non...to me there's a big difference.

If it's a fun game, I guess I wouldn't mind...just seems so sloppy to not include a tate mode.

After DOJ and mars matrix, I guess my standards for homeports are too high.

Ord · Post by **Ord** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:40 pm

Rob wrote:If the wider mode is the exact same thing as the arcade mode, I can't see why tate is a big deal. Remember Giga Wing 1 and 2? I must be the only one pleased that it might end up being a near traditionally wide Giga Wing. I can't imagine why a "huge Giga Wing fan" would be so put off by this. And then there's arcade mode if you must wobble.

The problem for me is that this version of the game was designed to be played in Tate mode. This is the first Gigawing game to do this and in truth it looked bloody sweet when i saw & played it.
Can you imagine Ikaruga or Dodonpachi being done in this wider mode?
Ah bollocks!! I'm really hacked off now.

Post by **system11** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 7:57 pm

Designed for tate mode. That's 4:3 vertical aspect. One of the modes is a 4:3 vertical window zoomed out to maintain the same play are size with respect to the bullets, enemies and so on. Note also, 3d scales better than 2d. It's not such a big deal. A shitty scrolled yoko mode though, now _thats_ a crime - check out PSX DonPachi...

Post by **Dave_K.** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:13 pm

Rob wrote:If the wider mode is the exact same thing as the arcade mode, I can't see why tate is a big deal. Remember Giga Wing 1 and 2? I must be the only one pleased that it might end up being a near traditionally wide Giga Wing. I can't imagine why a "huge Giga Wing fan" would be so put off by this. And then there's arcade mode if you must wobble.

The point is GWG is not the same as 1 or 2, the Type-x version plays on a vertical monitor with "wobble". The home port playing in hoizontal mode with or without wobble, with thick or thin borders, is NOT the same thing! You are loosing some resolution by playing in hori mode. I'm with Neon on this, there is a difference in play.

Rob wrote:
Since I play my PS2 inside a real cab with rotated screen, tate is pretty important to me.
You only play PS2 games in tate?

For shooters yes. I still play other games on my TV, but not shooters.

DantesInferno · Post by **DantesInferno** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 8:31 pm

I have been playing around with this game this morning for a while, and while it's good, it's slightly disappointing. The lack of a full tate mode is a downer, and it does appear to have some framerate issues...and something about it feels..almost unfinished. Maybe I need to put more time into it..the intro movie is neat though.

OmegaFlareX · Post by **OmegaFlareX** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:13 pm

Darkcomet72 wrote:Oh, you people and your TATE.

Once you start playing verts in tate (and get a tated-only monitor/TV/cab/whatever), you just can't go back to yoko. Imagine, if you will, trying to play Border Down or Gradius V on a vertically-rotated screen. No thanks.

That's a shame about GWG. It doesn't really matter to me anyway since my PS2 isn't modded and I don't have a boot disc or anything (I'd go for the Swap Magic if ESPGaluda is confirmed to work with it).

Is this the first Type-X game to be ported to PS2? If so, there is hope for future releases that don't suck, since the developers will use what they learned in GWG to solve porting issues. Then again, isn't the Type-X hardware something that's 2X the power of the X-box? It's pretty unrealistic to expect perfect ports on PS2. It'll be like the NES days all over again.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:18 pm

Dave_K. wrote:The point is GWG is not the same as 1 or 2, the Type-x version plays on a vertical monitor with "wobble". The home port playing in hoizontal mode with or without wobble, with thick or thin borders, is NOT the same thing!

Yeah, maybe it's better. Tychom said it seemed smoother than the arcade version, and "original" offers a complete view of the field (apparently) unlike the arcade. As far as I'm concerned it carries on the GW tradition more faithfully. If it turns out to be a good game I'm sure I'll end up playing it more this way than if it had been tate or nothing. There's really no point in being such a purist when it comes to home ports. Home ports are not the same thing. They have extras and sometimes changes for the better (like Mars Matrix).

As for how it plays, I wouldn't get upset about anything until you play it. I doubt anyone who didn't like GW1 or 2 would enjoy this or vice versa. The audience is pretty clear-cut.

Sucks I have to wait for the 31st (Dragon Blaze) for this to even ship and then another 1-2 weeks.

Kron · Post by **Kron** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 9:59 pm

Rob wrote:and "original" offers a complete view of the field (apparently) unlike the arcade.

It shows a complete view of the playfield horizontally but in essence you are only seeing around 60% of the vertical aspect. Losing 40% of your playfield in a game that was designed for a Tate display is a disaster.

Rob wrote:As far as I'm concerned it carries on the GW tradition more faithfully.

Tradition is irrelevent if something is designed in a different display aspect.

Rob wrote:There's really no point in being such a purist when it comes to home ports. Home ports are not the same thing. They have extras and sometimes changes for the better (like Mars Matrix).

The core game should be the most important thing not tons of useless extras, There is no excuse to advocate poor home ports.

Post by **system11** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:22 pm

Kron wrote:
Rob wrote:and "original" offers a complete view of the field (apparently) unlike the arcade.
It shows a complete view of the playfield horizontally but in essence you are only seeing around 60% of the vertical aspect. Losing 40% of your playfield in a game that was designed for a Tate display is a disaster.

The way people are describing it, it's the full arcade play area, rotated and zoomed out, or an opened up one. In the former case, no playfield is lost at all, just everything is smaller. You do seem /determined/ to dislike it however, so I'm wasting my breath.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:34 pm

Kron wrote:It shows a complete view of the playfield horizontally but in essence you are only seeing around 60% of the vertical aspect. Losing 40% of your playfield in a game that was designed for a Tate display is a disaster.

Yeah that would make it semi-worthless but I'm not taking your word for it (you haven't played it, have you?). The screenshots don't look to be that way and it doesn't make sense. How could they show a "complete view horizontally" and compromise the vertical length by 40%? The screen would be much wider than it is. Totally unnecessary. Also note it has an "arcade mode," so bitching about this mode like it's the only thing the game has got is pretty stupid.

Does this look zoomed in? I can't tell, but 60% seems far-fetched. It looks like everything is proportional, except original is wider. Seeing as how arcade has panning, it makes sense.

The core game should be the most important thing not tons of useless extras, There is no excuse to advocate poor home ports.

You're telling me, but I said home ports are not the same thing. They aren't. And sometimes for the better. It seems like you're already on the assault on this port, but all you have is secondhand info.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:37 pm

hilarious how biased the shmups community is.

Post by **system11** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:44 pm

The vagrant wrote:hilarious how biased the shmups community is.

<3 TATE!!!! tate t4t3 TATEEEE!!!!!! <3

I don't know what you mean...........?

Kind of sad really. I really would like a shmups t-shirt of some kind, Click is making one, but it's a TV on its side, which kind of writes it off as a bit too eliteist/geeky for me. A DDPDOJ shirt? I'd have that in a microsecond.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:53 pm

Good grief, this is outrageous any way you cut it. I cannot believe we are getting a Japanese shmup port with NO TATE mode. I would expect this from a U.S. porting house, not a Japanese dev like Taito for crying out loud (that reminds me, pardon my ignorance but do the Shikigami U.S. ports have TATE?). Unless I'm warmed up a little more after I hear more positive impressions of the game and its scoring, I will NOT be buying it.

Let's hope the only reason they did this is just a weird anomaly because maybe some dummy at Taito was worried fans of the previous games had never TATE'ed their screens before?

Folks who don't TATE their screens won't care but it is a big loss for those of us who TATE all our other games and were looking forward to seeing a GW game in full vertical display at home.

Dylan1CC · Post by **Dylan1CC** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 10:58 pm

The vagrant wrote:hilarious how biased the shmups community is.

Come on now. We're just not getting full-featured value out of the product that we should be, pure and simple. I don't bear any grudge against anyone who buys the game and who doesn't TATE their screen ya know? Just disappointing personally as both a TATE'er and importer.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:02 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
The vagrant wrote:hilarious how biased the shmups community is.
<3 TATE!!!! tate t4t3 TATEEEE!!!!!! <3

I don't know what you mean...........?

Kind of sad really. I really would like a shmups t-shirt of some kind, Click is making one, but it's a TV on its side, which kind of writes it off as a bit too eliteist/geeky for me. A DDPDOJ shirt? I'd have that in a microsecond.

seems that a lot of your posts consist of bashing tate for some reason, dunno why, bad past experience?

as i said, i could go without tate, but only if i was playing on a decent sized tv, playing on a small one in yoko would just hurt my eyes, not enjoyable at all, dont get me started on the resolution thing.
and i tought we've moved on since 16 bit times where games were stretched to fit the screen size, really, seems like its not the case.

all this would be nothing, but...30FPS? um, no thanks, i still havent bought mars matrix, which i know by playing it on mame that its one of the greatest shmups ever, for me at least.
what the hell happened to takumi? seems a lot of people from capcom used to work with them, else you wouldnt see such a huge difference between GW, GW2 and MM, and night raid and GWG (im judging those two by reviews, sincee i cant afford to buy everything, but thats what reviews are for kind of………give you a basic idea of whats worth your money, a lot of people here seem to have forgotten that)
i havent seen a single shmup at 30fps, besides maybe the awesomely great "curse"
sadly, i cant care if the gameplay is good or not, 30 fps + no tate is something i cant deal with.

TVG · Post by **TVG** » Thu Mar 24, 2005 11:06 pm

Dylan1CC wrote:
The vagrant wrote:hilarious how biased the shmups community is.
Come on now. We're just not getting full-featured value out of the product that we should be, pure and simple. I don't bear any grudge against anyone who buys the game and who doesn't TATE their screen ya know? Just disappointing personally as both a TATE'er and importer.

im not talking about tate or no tate, but there just seems to be some sort of vehemency wether someone brings on a negative aspect of a game, kinda annoying, but i guess i should just speak my mind and not worry about it too much/not enter useless debates.
there's some things i dont like on this forum, but im not going to change it by myself, i should learn to deal with it/ignore it, leaving is not an option :p