Thinking of hosting a scoring contest.

big_aug · Post by **big_aug** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:05 am

I was thinking of hosting some kind of scoring contest here on the forums. Getting more people into the Hi-Scores section, and ecouraging competition will make us all better.

If anyone has ever done anything like this before, I'd appreciate it if they contact me. I'll probably throw up the money for some kind of prize. It would be something decent like a game, DVD Superplay set, soundtrack, or something like that.

I'd probably only open it to people who've at least been here a while, as I don't think that they would lie about scores or anything.

Any game suggestions? Preferably something that quite a few of the people on the board own/play.

Let me know what you guys think.

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:16 am

Ramus started something like this a while ago, and it was fun for a time. The main problem is very few people bothered to join in. -_-;;

Info here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6795

There was an 8bit Classics Compo on the old Gamespy forums as well, and that was well received.

I'd be up for a good competition, as long as there are a lot of participants. Prizes are irrelevant to me, I just want the sweet taste of heated battle again. ^_-

cigsthecat · Post by **cigsthecat** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:42 am

I'm thinking of participating

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:48 am

I suggest Mars Matrix or Giga Wing 2.

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:51 am

I'm all for it, it'd be a good way to mix things up. My shmup collection isn't too big, but I'll jump in when I can.

50% percentile! FT.. uhm.

TalkingOctopus · Post by **TalkingOctopus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:53 am

I joined for the Ramus's competition for the first week when donpachi was played. I'm actually familiar with that game so I did alright. My problem was in the following weeks, games I was not familiar were chosen. While that's fine - I like playing a variety of shmups - I need more than a week of play to be able to compete in them. If something like this is ressurected perhaps games can be rotated biweekly or even longer.

big_aug · Post by **big_aug** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:22 am

TalkingOctopus wrote:I joined for the Ramus's competition for the first week when donpachi was played. I'm actually familiar with that game so I did alright. My problem was in the following weeks, games I was not familiar were chosen. While that's fine - I like playing a variety of shmups - I need more than a week of play to be able to compete in them. If something like this is ressurected perhaps games can be rotated biweekly or even longer.

I agree. One week isn't enough time to get familiar with a game at all. I'm going to think about this for a while and see what I can come up with. I'd like to do it right if I do it, and I'd like it to be enjoyable for al who participate.

Suggestions are very much welcomed!

Andi · Post by **Andi** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:12 am

I really like the idea (and I liked Ramus's old thread) but the problem is that I don't use MAME and only have a handful of Saturn games. Most of my shooters are on the NES.

It's a damn shame really.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:58 am

Rob wrote:I suggest Mars Matrix or Giga Wing 2.

That's not fair at all.

I suggest Sispri Gauntlet.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:26 am

big_aug wrote: I agree. One week isn't enough time to get familiar with a game at all. I'm going to think about this for a while and see what I can come up with. I'd like to do it right if I do it, and I'd like it to be enjoyable for all who participate.

Suggestions are very much welcomed!

First, I must know how the Ramus thing worked. Did he just suggest a single title for the week and everyone went for it?

So the biggest problem with the lack of people doing it would be game ownership, wouldn't it? big_aug throws a title out; if I don't own it, I'm stuck at a total disadvantage by being a week behind. If a player thinks that's going to happen, i.e. me, I wouldn't bother dedicating full lengths of time to do it every week/month.

Suggestions?
1. Host a thread where all contestants can predetermine if everybody has the same collection of games subject for competition. That would then entitle everybody planning to compete to have the total game list to be used. Then somebody's gonna say "that's unfair Game X that I'm bad at and I know Player A is great at is last, so that guy is going to get a ton of practice."
So then I say after the predetermined list of games is completed, proceed to draw a game name out of a hat every week or month or so to keep things random.

Then say that thread I just talked of gets started and games to use are discussed. Then I'm gonna say something like, "Oh yeah, I never bought into the whole Cave phenomenon. So no Cave games."
Then would ensue a fiery hell of a thousand flaming posts, followed by a locking, then a banning, then another banning. Icarus would then point and laugh, followed by the posting of a funny picture.

To counter that, maybe somebody should research the hi-score postings to find different games with score listings around the same value. Then you could gather groups of three or so games once a week or month and say “you may choose one of these three games to post a score entry to.” You could keep your picks to something like one game you know came out in the Americas, one you know came out in Europe, and one you know came out in Asia.

Say you cannot find enough games with similar score values. Like an Under Defeat upper score listing of 1,847,000 (based on similar posted values) in the same game listing week/month as Gradius V with an upper score listing of 2,880,170 (based on similar posted values) in the same game listing week/month as Armed Police Batrider with an upper score listing of 5,012,430 (based on similar posted values).
In this case, for an example we could divide the Gradius score into the Batrider score (because it is the highest of the three), which tells us that Gradius scores are 57.46% of a Batrider score. Subtract the 1 by the percent and it gives us 42.54%. So we would multiply everybody’s Gradius V score submission by 1.4254 to obtain a final score that you could compare with Batrider side-by-side. We’d compare Under Defeat by dividing that upper score listing with Batrider’s to say an Under Defeat score is 36.85% of Batrider’s. Subtract from 1 and you get 63.15%. So multiply 1.6315 to every Under Defeat score to compare it with Batrider and hence, even out the competition with three separate games.

Now, obviously, to make those final scores compare a lot better with each other, you would probably have to remove “based on similar posted values” and calculate something more precise like get the uppermost standard deviation (or maybe two+ standard deviations) from the mean of every high score table. Then you’d have to decide if you want to include crazy really wide-gaped #1 scores like tviks and Ex_Mosquito into the initial mean (average) calculations, as they will really skew an average score into something much higher than it should, which after standard deviation calculations, would also raise it a little bit more than necessary.

2. Make separate competitions based on chances of game ownership. Maybe hold three or more different ones based on Americas-released, Euro-released, and Asia-released. Or do separate horizontal competition and a separate vertical competition. Or maybe Current gen console competition, before current console competition, and PC anything competition. Or something like scoring-system based competition and a survival-system based competition.

3. Suggest title(s) every week or month for competition, but when the final results are tallied only use a limited (best) number of score submissions from each contestant. Like host a 10 week/month series of score-comparing competition, but when all 10 periods are up, tally up the best scores from only say, the 5 best submissions from players.
You’ll probably need to combine this with suggestions #1 for this to work.

It’ll probably be all about combining a variety of these ideas if you want to maximize participants. However, remember, more scoring system complexities times the # participants will equal much more misunderstood bitching when the final results roll out.

I really do type too much, don’t I.......damn...

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:42 am

I really liked the weekly challenges Ramus put on. I enjoyed kicking Icarus to the curb in Cyvern especially, but the DonPachi one was my favorite. Really improved my score, wouldn't have even bothered otherwise.

The problem is of course what game to choose, since everyone has games they've put more time into than others. Maybe make up some bizarre criteria to even the score, like highest score for a certain stage or a certain character no one uses, etc.

I'll likely participate regardless.

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:02 am

NTSC-J wrote:I really liked the weekly challenges Ramus put on. I enjoyed kicking Icarus to the curb in Cyvern especially, but the DonPachi one was my favorite. Really improved my score, wouldn't have even bothered otherwise.

Shame my record Cyvern score came a few hours after the end of the meet. ^_-

As for games, the only real way to guarantee that everyone has the game is to use MAME, and verify the score with inputs. The only problem being that there are a few adverse to using an emulator, and system specifications do play a part too.

DJ Incompetent wrote:Then say that thread I just talked of gets started and games to use are discussed. Then I'm gonna say something like, "Oh yeah, I never bought into the whole Cave phenomenon. So no Cave games."
Then would ensue a fiery hell of a thousand flaming posts, followed by a locking, then a banning, then another banning. Icarus would then point and laugh, followed by the posting of a funny picture.

You know me well.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:21 am

I am interested in playing as well, although i have reservations about
choosing the games (as i have just started my collection) and
also the scoring system.

We could have a head to head, pairing system were the winner
goes on to the next round etc?

Just some thoughts.

Cheers
Harlequin

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:40 am

if its a game i have> sign me in
im not using mame toh

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:53 pm

I'd love to join a competition and reccently opened a thread about this subject. Some suggestions regarding rules:

-New Weekly Shmeet?

But I got the impression people wouldn't be interested since almost no one responded. Maybe they just didn't notice this very thread.

I think don't run several games at once, since it will divide the (probably already small) attraction for the competition into 2 or 3 games meaning less people join one single game. Plus I don't think scores of different games can be compared at all, even if you calculate the average score or something, because the highscores are not equally good (in the score section). So I think finding the average score difference in each game would be a big problem and could easyily get pretty unbalanced.

Also I think If you only choose games emulated in Mame more people will participate in general. And I'd love to exchange input files. Always interesting to see how different people have different solutions of certain bosses and situations.

My suggestion would be have a competition started it every 1st of a month and let it maybe continue until 15th... then have a small break and start the next compo at the 1st of the next month. This way the competitions may stay more exciting over a larger time frame. Compared

And I don't care for prizes at all.

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:22 pm

I participated last time, but it got rather punishing after the first few weeks trying to keep up

Maybe bi weekly is a good idea.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:33 pm

Just so i have some sort of idea what i am up against does
anyone have a list of shooters that were played in MAME in
the last competition and what scores where tops?

I may need the practice

Cheers
Harlequin

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:39 pm

Donpachi (Saturn/PSX/MAME)
- http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6361

Cyvern (PCB/MAME)
- http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6406

Gradius (Console/MAME)
- http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6609

Viewpoint (PCB/MAME)
- http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6694

Space Bomber (PCB/MAME)
- http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6809

Great Mahou Daisakusen/Dimahoo (PCB/MAME)
- http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=7045

freddiebamboo · Post by **freddiebamboo** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:41 pm

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6361

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6406

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=6694

These still have the scoreboards posted on them and were the most popular. The donpachi scoreboard especially was a lot of fun at the time.

EDIT- Damn you Icarus...

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:47 pm

I think 14-20 days would be a good time length for everyone. The weekly competitions were fun, as a week meant you had to really push yourself to learn the game and to play well, but two or more weeks is optimal for most since most don't play that often.

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:48 pm

Thanks guys, that was FAST!

I have some reading and practising to do!

Cheers
Harlequin

Blade · Post by **Blade** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:22 pm

Rob wrote:I suggest Mars Matrix or Giga Wing 2.

Don't you always?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:58 pm

That was the first time, but I'm going to keep it up until someone tells me to stop. Then a few more times.

Icarus and NTSC-J will probably clean up at any general game competition, so I need that kind of help.

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:40 pm

Rob wrote:Icarus and NTSC-J will probably clean up at any general game competition, so I need that kind of help.

I wouldn't say 'clean up' as there are a lot of shootemups I'm not very good at. I do try and give it my best shot though.

howmuchkeefe · Post by **howmuchkeefe** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:18 am

+1 to no prizes necessary

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:22 pm

I haven't been here long but I'd be down for it.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:41 pm

I'm down. No prizes neccesary, although if you insist...I'm not gonna stop you. I wouldn't win it anyway. I cannot concentrate on a single shmup enough to do good at any of them.

Huzzah for mediocrity!

Anyway, sure, I'd hop in and contribute whenever possible.

JJG · Post by **JJG** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 10:54 pm

Ha, I'm the same way as far as focusing on a single game. I agree about prizes though 'cause they really encourage cheating.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 11:59 pm

um...sorry to like....call this out..and like...kill hopes and dreams...but...
that thread is from July...

big_aug is on team Drink & Fly in the current STGT

big_aug hasn't contributed a single score

Credibility = 0 ....unless he's a Cave fan..or something...

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 12:06 am

You're right...

I should pay more attention to things like this. Whatever, I have a lot on my mind lately. Something like this would be cool however. Something a little more casual than the current tournament.