grrr!

[Atomic]

am i weird to be annoyed when people call games like splinter cell, halo and the like "shooters?"

i mean it really annoys me. i want to grab people that do it and be like "brah.. its NOT a shooter! its a fucking RUN AND GUN! or at most ADVENTURE!" then slap them repeatedly with a wet trout.

it just gets really aggravating. especially when you try to call places looking for "shooters" and they start listing random first and third person cliche military/gang run-around-with-gun games.. which there are WAY too many of i might add.

</rant..>

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Do you realize run 'n guns are games like Contra and Metal Slug?
Do you realize adventure games are games like Escape from Monkey Island?
Shooter is a pretty generic term, so whatever.

You annoy me. Grrr...

[Atomic]

so are you telling me that a game in which you have an adventure while running around with a gun is not a "run and gun" or "adventure?" i guess it could be a shooter by the same logic.. simply because you shoot.
it just doesnt seem right to me.

if youre going to call "shooter" a generic term you might as well consider "run and gun" and "adventure" just as generic.

but.. i dont know. maybe im really just annoyed that there are so many of those and not enough of what you would normally consider a shmup

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

A shooter could be = a shmup, a run 'n gun, a third person shooter, or a first person shooter.

Shmup, run 'n gun, third person shooter and first person shooter are specific terms. People know exactly what you're trying to say when you say them. Zero ambiguity. They might not know the terms, though.


Adventure games = Escape from Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, MYST.

^ The term adventure is a very specific one in my mind and only consists of games like the ones listed above. Some people like to bastardize the term though and call everything with exploration an "adventure game."

[Atomic]

A shooter could be = a shmup, a run 'n gun, a third person shooter, or a first person shooter.

Shmup, run 'n gun, third person shooter and first person shooter are specific terms. People know exactly what you're trying to say when you say them. Zero ambiguity. They might not know the terms, though.

Adventure games = Escape from Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, MYST.

^ The term adventure is a very specific one in my mind and only consists of games like the ones listed above. Some people like to bastardize the term though and call everything with exploration an "adventure game."

hence my issue with the bastardization of "shooter."

most people dont realize the difference between first and third person, run and gun, and space type games. they think "shooter = gun of some type" and thats about it.

dont take this the wrong way, but youre pretty much arguing my point but using "adventure" in the place of "shooter." where adventure is specific in your mind, shooter is specific in mine.

[Necronom]

Jesus! This is probably the most senseless thread I've read here in a looong while...I just could't resist...feel like I must post something...really weird. Nah, seriously. Atomic, the people you were talking to probably just don't give a damn about your hardcore-genre-definitions. If shooting stuff is a major part of the gameplay then it's a "shooter". Pretty simple, what's wrong with that?

[professor ganson]

Speaking of annoying usage: I hate when people say "...that begs the question...", when what they mean is that invites the question. Begging the question is a kind of fallacy of reasoning: one presupposes in one's reasoning precisely what one is trying to argue for. Like someone who argues that what the Bible says is true by pointing to a passage in the Bible that says "what's in this book is true". (Not that there is any such passage-- I don't read the Bible so I wouldn't know; just an example.)

[zinger]

Speaking of annoying usage: I hate when people say "...that begs the question...", when what they mean is that invites the question. Begging the question is a kind of fallacy of reasoning: one presupposes in one's reasoning precisely what one is trying to argue for. Like someone who argues that what the Bible says is true by pointing to a passage in the Bible that says "what's in this book is true". (Not that there is any such passage-- I don't read the Bible so I wouldn't know; just an example.)

Wow, that sucks, never heard it before. Those crab-like enemies in Duke Nukem 3D really annoy me btw.

And oh, maybe this thread belongs in the off-topic section?

[Frederik]

We should make a "repeating threads" sticky, for topics like "Radiant Silvergun overrated?" and "Gareggas rank sucks". This would be another one of those.If you use the term "Shmups" nobody will get that wrong. Then again, people can fight over that term too, if it sounds stupid or not.

[ave]

There are lots of guys (and magazines) out there calling games like Star Fox "shoot em ups". I really don't understand why they're too stupid to use the correct word for it, railshooters.
I keep ignoring those people and that works really well^_^

[professor ganson]

Another annoying communication issue. I dislike when people violate the rule of quantity in their writing or speech: always provide all the relevant information needed. For example, labeling your thread "grrr!" is a violation of the rule of quantity. It would have been better to write: "Herein I complain about how some use the term 'shooter'." Then at least I would know that I can safely skip the thread. (Not that I don't enjoy complaining about poor use of language.)

[Dandy J]

I LITERALLY SHIT MY PANTS

[Icarus]

We should make a "repeating threads" sticky, for topics like "Radiant Silvergun overrated?" and "Gareggas rank sucks". This would be another one of those.If you use the term "Shmups" nobody will get that wrong. Then again, people can fight over that term too, if it sounds stupid or not.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=9844
You made this one, funnily enough.

[Twiddle]

A shooter could be = a shmup, a run 'n gun, a third person shooter, or a first person shooter.

Shmup, run 'n gun, third person shooter and first person shooter are specific terms. People know exactly what you're trying to say when you say them. Zero ambiguity. They might not know the terms, though.

Adventure games = Escape from Monkey Island, Grim Fandango, MYST.

^ The term adventure is a very specific one in my mind and only consists of games like the ones listed above. Some people like to bastardize the term though and call everything with exploration an "adventure game."

hence my issue with the bastardization of "shooter."

most people dont realize the difference between first and third person, run and gun, and space type games. they think "shooter = gun
of some type" and thats about it.

dont take this the wrong way, but youre pretty much arguing my point but using "adventure" in the place of "shooter." where adventure is specific in your mind, shooter is specific in mine.

This sort of genre discrimination is why we can't have threads for games like Gundhara and Metal Slug on the Hi Score forums.

[Atomic]

I LITERALLY SHIT MY PANTS

rofl..

i knew ya'll would be good for a laugh.

btw.. SAINTS HAD BARBECUED EAGLE TODAY BABY!!! YEAH! WOO!

[professor ganson]

btw.. SAINTS HAD BARBECUED EAGLE TODAY BABY!!! YEAH! WOO!

Yeah, that was truly impressive. Beating the Browns was one thing...

[Atomic]

yeah i gotta give it to em. the saints are kicking ass this year.
they seem to light up when the pressure is on.. glad they did against the eagles.

[Dale]

Shooter is a pretty vague term if they called Splinter Cell a shmup then you should be mad.

Although I think SC is stealth game their isn't much focus on shooting.

[captain ahar]

We should make a "repeating threads" sticky, for topics like "Radiant Silvergun overrated?" and "Gareggas rank sucks". This would be another one of those.If you use the term "Shmups" nobody will get that wrong. Then again, people can fight over that term too, if it sounds stupid or not.

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=9844
You made this one, funnily enough.

zing!

[doctorx0079]

I like the term "scrolling shooter". Everyone understands what the hell that is. Hardly anybody knows what a "shmup" is and I got sick of explaining it. I say "Ibara is a scrolling shooter, like Gradius" and ppl know exactly what I mean. And nobody seems to confuse it with Halo.

[Pirate1019]

I like the term "scrolling shooter". Everyone understands what the hell that is. Hardly anybody knows what a "shmup" is and I got sick of explaining it. I say "Ibara is a scrolling shooter, like Gradius" and ppl know exactly what I mean. And nobody seems to confuse it with Halo.

I try not to bring shmups up in conversation outside of my 1 friend who plays them. Although Scrolling shooter seems to fit the bill for everybody. Vertical/Horizontal Shooter also work.

[Strider77]

I LITERALLY SHIT MY PANTS

[D]

am i weird to be annoyed when people call games like splinter cell, halo and the like "shooters?"

i mean it really annoys me. i want to grab people that do it and be like "brah.. its NOT a shooter!
it just gets really aggravating. especially when you try to call places looking for "shooters" and they start listing random first and third person cliche military/gang run-around-with-gun games.. which there are WAY too many of i might add.

</rant..>

All I can say is, you'll learn to live with the fact that people who like fps games are morons.

[Necronom]

Yeah right, D...
And people who don't like coffee are racists...all of them! Please turn your brain on NOW

[Gopher's Ambition]

calling games like Star Fox "shoot em ups"

Actually I would too... I can't really see any difference between it and a verti or hori shmup... other than it is in 3D, and occasionally goes into "all range mode" in some of the titles.

Note in margin: Play Starfox 1 on Zsnes and be amazed at the blistering speed.

[Pirate1019]

All I can say is, you'll learn to live with the fact that people who like fps games are morons.

What you are looking for is people that play fps games 'probably not into niche things like shmups' or 'just want to play multiplayer' or 'are the types dazzled by computer-melting graphics'.

Although I do say that the impressions I get from the few fps multiplayer games I have played say this: The degredation of humanity's intelligence is at hand.

[D]

Yeah right, D...
And people who don't like coffee are racists...all of them! Please turn your brain on NOW

Come on man, what do you think that they call us shmuppers?
I bet they don't even know we exist
This thread is not that serious. You bit.

[Stormwatch]

Atomic, you're bashing others for being clueless, while being clueless as well!

Let me clarify some confusing genres, cuz I'm teh smart:

shmup = shoot 'em up = "pure" shooter
a ship or character shooting enemies in strict 2D gameplay
examples: Gradius, Ikaruga, Donpachi, Gunbird

on-rails shooter
a ship or character shooting enemies in a 3D or pseudo-3D environment, with forward-scrolling motion over which you have little or no control.
examples: Panzer Dragoon Saga, After Burner

first person shooter
a character shooting enemies in full 3D gameplay, your sight is the same as the hero's, and you have full control over his motions.
examples: Duke Nukem 3D, Doom, Marathon, Wolfenstein 3D

third person shooter
Same as the first person shooter, except you can look at the hero, usually from the back. Tends to contain more mêlée combat, but not necessarily.
examples: Max Payne, Oni, Urban Chaos, Tomb Raider

space combat simulator
A first (or rarely third) person shooter with spaceships.
examples: Descent, StarLancer, Wing Commander, Bang Gunship Elite

platformer
It's-a fuckin' Mario! Enough said.

run-and-gun
Subset of platformers. Think "what if Mario had lots of guns". Always 2D gameplay, otherwise it's a third person shooter.
examples: Gunstar Heroes, Contra, Metal Slug

Adventure
A deep storyline, tons of brain-melting puzzles; very little combat, if any at all.
examples: Myst series, Monkey Island, Full Throttle

Action-adventure
A platformer with heavy emphasis of puzzles and precise motion.
examples: Prince of Persia, Flashback, Out of this World, Blackthorne

Survival horror
Subset of 3D action-adventures. Movement is more realistic (no acrobatics), ammo is limited, and theme is related to horror.
examples: Alone in the Dark, Resident Evil

Stealth
Subset of 3D action-adventures. Movement is more realistic (no acrobatics), gameplay emphasis on hiding from the enemy and sneaking to kill it by surprise, or even skip past it entirely.
examples: Metal Gear, Headhunter

Action-RPG
Kinda similar to action adventures, but less puzzles, less precision platforming; more raw enemy-killing action and item-amassing.
examples: Zelda series, Terranigma series, Monster World 4, Popful Mail

[sven666]

you forgot a couple of genres... maybe someone missed the point.

[Atomic]

Atomic, you're bashing others for being clueless, while being clueless as well!

Let me clarify some confusing genres, cuz I'm teh smart:

shmup = shoot 'em up = "pure" shooter
a ship or character shooting enemies in strict 2D gameplay
examples: Gradius, Ikaruga, Donpachi, Gunbird

on-rails shooter
a ship or character shooting enemies in a 3D or pseudo-3D environment, with forward-scrolling motion over which you have little or no control.
examples: Panzer Dragoon Saga, After Burner

first person shooter
a character shooting enemies in full 3D gameplay, your sight is the same as the hero's, and you have full control over his motions.
examples: Duke Nukem 3D, Doom, Marathon, Wolfenstein 3D

third person shooter
Same as the first person shooter, except you can look at the hero, usually from the back. Tends to contain more mêlée combat, but not necessarily.
examples: Max Payne, Oni, Urban Chaos, Tomb Raider

space combat simulator
A first (or rarely third) person shooter with spaceships.
examples: Descent, StarLancer, Wing Commander, Bang Gunship Elite

platformer
It's-a fuckin' Mario! Enough said.

run-and-gun
Subset of platformers. Think "what if Mario had lots of guns". Always 2D gameplay, otherwise it's a third person shooter.
examples: Gunstar Heroes, Contra, Metal Slug

Adventure
A deep storyline, tons of brain-melting puzzles; very little combat, if any at all.
examples: Myst series, Monkey Island, Full Throttle

Action-adventure
A platformer with heavy emphasis of puzzles and precise motion.
examples: Prince of Persia, Flashback, Out of this World, Blackthorne

Survival horror
Subset of 3D action-adventures. Movement is more realistic (no acrobatics), ammo is limited, and theme is related to horror.
examples: Alone in the Dark, Resident Evil

Stealth
Subset of 3D action-adventures. Movement is more realistic (no acrobatics), gameplay emphasis on hiding from the enemy and sneaking to kill it by surprise, or even skip past it entirely.
examples: Metal Gear, Headhunter

Action-RPG
Kinda similar to action adventures, but less puzzles, less precision platforming; more raw enemy-killing action and item-amassing.
examples: Zelda series, Terranigma series, Monster World 4, Popful Mail

you forgot salad shooter.
- A vegetarian with diarrhea

if youre going to talk about being clueless, i think you should speak for yourself.. being that you completely missed the point.
honestly i think you just wanted to show everyone that youre a know-it-all. job well done. have a cookie.