All the crappy PS2 shooters (or we hate R-Type Final thread)

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:40 pm

I saw the other post asking about all good PS2 shooters. I thought it'd be amusing and just as useful to list all the crappy ones and why you feel that way.

Plus we all like to bitch about why x games sucks b\c of no true low res, lack of emulated slowdown, lack of tate, crappy scoring method ect...

-Why don't we go ahead and open this to "all the crapy shooters" period.-

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:41 pm

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 9:54 pm

I think we should make a competition "Which thread will be locked the fastest". On the other hand, that simply would be either "Radiant Silvergun is overrated" or "Gareggas rank system sucks".

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:27 pm

I think this is a valid thread. There are plenty of turd shooting games on the PS2. I've only played a few of them though.

One I couldn't get into was Gigwaing Generations. Bad frame rate, no TATE option, and ported form Type-X which is pretty shitty hardware to begin with.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:44 pm

Well, Silpheed was pretty longish and and bland. It`s hard to believe it was developed by Treasure. It`s not really a turd, just really boring.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:49 pm

All right so maybe it's not a great idea for a thread apparently. But honestly for me a good forum boils down to 2 things.

#1 Great information and insite. I've discovered some things I hadn't realized like Garrega's and Souky's ranking system. Best of all I've found out there are some great shooters I didn't own and met folks on here that sold a few to me.

#2 The arguing and bitching, sorry I get a kick out of conflicting opinions. It's boring otherwise. Plus those are the kind of situations that help give the members a personality on here. I've got caught up in defending x title but that's b/c I like it and on the flip side there are some I hate....... That's ok though we all have the right to an opinion, no matter how wrong it may be.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:01 pm

Did Gigawing Generations have an 'original' mode that let you play it verizontal fashion? If so, was this any better?

Really, my vote goes out to Chaos Field and XII Stag. Like Silpheed I suppose turd may be too strong a word, but I feel no urge to play those games.

That said though, I don't think I'm really into the gimmicky aspects of shmups. Most of my shmupping love springs from the tree of toaplan, so all the joystick wiggling, buzzing, switching-colors, and whatever else you have--its all buggers to me

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:33 pm

Whether you will like stuff like Gigawing Generations, Chaos Field or XII Stag depends on your personal taste, so I'm not gonna diss those games. They don't look appealing and they're not popular, but they do have their gameplay merits and fans. Just make sure you stay away from Gunbird 1&2, which is an absolutely piss-poor port, and Cho Aniki which is a bad joke that hasn't been funny since the SFC installment anymore.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:07 am

Just pretty much Silpheed: The Lost Planet, Cho Aniki, and the Gunbird compo.

The other PS2 shmups are varying degrees of good- like Giga Wing Generations (very good, but it could've been excellent with Tate) and Ibara (great).

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:10 am

FrederikJurk wrote:Well, Silpheed was pretty longish and and bland. It`s hard to believe it was developed by Treasure. It`s not really a turd, just really boring.

Coulda sworn Game Arts made the game and Treasure did the sound or whatever. Proof?

I've heard Shienryu's sequel blows, I think it's called Steel Dragon EX or something like that.

PS2's a great system for shmups, maybe even better than the Saturn.

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:38 am

steel dragon was the european release name. all times i've heard the name it is called Shienryu Explosion. i sort of like it too, it's just really easy and pretty meh.

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:57 am

shinsage wrote:
FrederikJurk wrote:Well, Silpheed was pretty longish and and bland. It`s hard to believe it was developed by Treasure. It`s not really a turd, just really boring.
Coulda sworn Game Arts made the game and Treasure did the sound or whatever. Proof?

This is speculation on my part, but just looking at Silpheed, the visuals have a Treasure feel, in that it's a real eye fest.

I would cast my vote also for Silpheed.
Never got into Homura myself which is why I got rid of it very soon after release.

I haven't heard good things about GWG (30fps or something) or Shienryu Explosion but otherwise the rest is quite good.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:59 am

r-type final

captain ahar · Post by **captain ahar** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:02 am

Twiddle wrote:r-type final

here here. ball of ass.

MSZ · Post by **MSZ** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:31 am

Definitely Silpheed, the worst 15 bucks I ever spent.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:58 am

R Type Final is not a ball of ass....

Your skills and memory are

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:01 am

and Ibara (great).

Talking about the ports here, not the games themselves.

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:05 am

I don't even know what a ball of ass is...

That said, anyone want to buy my copy of R-Type final?

shinsage · Post by **shinsage** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:49 am

Strider77 wrote:R Type Final is not a ball of ass....

Your skills and memory are

Final's reliance on unlocking a gajillion ships for replay value was a gimmick, not to mention it had some of the most wicked slowdown in any game, ever (particularly the third level). On an artistic level, it also doesn't match 1 or 2 in my book, even though it is saved near the end of the game with the silhouette love making.
I forced myself to like it the first month and then realized it was a shitty way to end a great series.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:12 am

GaijinPunch wrote:Talking about the ports here, not the games themselves.

If that's the case then I hafta speak up in GWG's favor...the port was bad, but if you can get past its (notable) shortcomings the game underneath is actually quite good imo.

As for R-Type Final, I still say that it's more of a tribute to the series than a "real" game. Depending on why you buy it, you'll either like it or hate it. I'm not a fan of XII Stag either, but it's pretty cheap to get, so it's not a huge ripoff or anything.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:38 am

Final's reliance on unlocking a gajillion ships for replay value was a gimmick, not to mention it had some of the most wicked slowdown in any game, ever (particularly the third level). On an artistic level, it also doesn't match 1 or 2 in my book, even though it is saved near the end of the game with the silhouette love making.
I forced myself to like it the first month and then realized it was a shitty way to end a great series.

I was dissapointed with the slowdown especially considering it's the last one, but I managed to beat it with on of the 1st ships. I have played far worse... I wish I hadn't confined this to just PS2 games...

Legion on the PC engine CD is one of the WORST shooters I have played. It's so bad it's almost comes full circle and becomes good b/c it's so awful. Has anyone played this game also?

Gungriffon Geona · Post by **Gungriffon Geona** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:09 am

BulletMagnet wrote:
GaijinPunch wrote:Talking about the ports here, not the games themselves.
If that's the case then I hafta speak up in GWG's favor...the port was bad, but if you can get past its (notable) shortcomings the game underneath is actually quite good imo.

As for R-Type Final, I still say that it's more of a tribute to the series than a "real" game. Depending on why you buy it, you'll either like it or hate it. I'm not a fan of XII Stag either, but it's pretty cheap to get, so it's not a huge ripoff or anything.

I detest the 5th level with a passion. you can barely tell what the hell is going on thanks to that crazy "warp" effect that's extremely glitchy.
personally I liked all the ships. I'm STILL wasting time on getting them all, even thugh it's not exactly worth it. I was very pleased to see the Peacemaker and Daedalus, and the TL ships were awesome. I may not like the game much, but I just can't stop until I can officially say I've completed it, ya know?

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:44 am

you can barely tell what the hell is going on thanks to that crazy "warp" effect that's extremely glitchy.

You can reduce the effect dramatically by lowering your ship speed.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:48 am

Gungriffon Geona wrote:I detest the 5th level with a passion. you can barely tell what the hell is going on thanks to that crazy "warp" effect that's extremely glitchy.

It's not glitchy at all. It's not even a design flaw. The warp effect depends on your ship speed. At lowest speed you get no warp effect at all. It's purely your own choice whether you want to take the risk of not being able to evade enemy bullets quickly enough.
The slowdown is exaggerated. There's a ton in stage 3, but I never felt that it really hurt the gameplay. Other stages are fine.
R-Type Final is a decent game, by no means the highlight of the series, but better than part 2 at least.

Radiant Silvergun is overrated and Garegga's rank system sucks.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:51 am

Garegga's rank system sucks.

YOU LIE!!!!

and don't anyone dare think of speaking unfavorably about Souky here..

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 8:15 am

Herr Schatten wrote:Garegga's rank system sucks.

it sucks if you suck

Try the first Zanac. Baby steps.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:27 am

Hehe, those statements were meant as jokes. Obviously, not everyone got them. (Why the hell should I post something like that in a thread about crappy PS2 games?) I just quoted the RSG and Garegga bits from Fred's post and even he did only use the phrases as examples for thread topics which scream for the lock, those are not necessarily my opinions.

Funny how easily you can trigger very predictable reactions when saying certain things about certain games. Am I right, BulletMagnet?

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:25 pm

Yeah, really. Also, chaining in DDP is shit and R-Type sucks because its not a manic shmup. When does Ketsui get finally emulated? Also Ibara is too hard. The hitbox in Truxton is FAR too big. I like to blow stuff up. // See, that was irony too.

Now back on the subject, when I carried home XII Stag and the Shienryu/Explosion pack from my trip to UK, I found myself playing Shienryu Explosion the most. It clearly is a game that somehow didn`t run through a refinement stage, but what is there could have been a very solid game (see the shmups.com review). I remember getting way too many extends, and the game is easy despite its manic shmup influences. It certainly hasn`t anything in common with Shienryu, which is more in the vein of Raiden. I found XII Stag to be very gimmicky, though it has nice graphics and a diagram at the end of each stage showing your progress.

As for R-Type Final - it has some flaws, but the ship selection is sweet. I sold it quite quickly back then, and just recently I watched a stage 5 replay with what seemed to be the R-Type Leo ship (with its detachable seeking options). One of the downsides is that there are really long sequences in which all you do is wait for something to happen - there are a bunch of YouTube videos on that game.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:29 pm

The only sin R-Type Final ever committed is to be a console shmup in an age when the only surviving fans only enjoy arcade stuff.

Shocky · Post by **Shocky** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:41 pm

I take all of the above posts bashing R-Type Final as jokes!

Or maybe I'm just looking for totally different things in shmups than most people... because for me, Final is a total masterpiece. I'm especially amazed by the stylish, innovative and meticulous ship and weapons designs. Levels are pure art too. First I thought, "100 ships? Yea rite, a hundred lame variations of the R-9A". Then I spent the next 50 hours trying to unlock all the ships and test out their weapons, and was amazed again and again.

Mainly I'm just cruising, admiring the scenery and destroying folks. I don't care much about scoring, but still I like to try to destroy absolutely everything, which is basically the same thing in this game. It's just relaxing and so much fun.

Edit:

Favorite ships: Mad Forest III, Charon, Mr. Heli, King's Mind, Sweet Memories and the mecha with the laser sword (Achilleus maybe?)