STGT 2k6- Week #4 Poll (Psikyo Week)

Marcodlb · Post by **Marcodlb** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:00 pm

i vote for gunbird

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:03 pm

Nemo wrote:
Rob wrote:You're a good sport, Nemo.
I'm just upset cuz scoring in DB is tedious as spit. I don't think people realize what they're getting themselves into.

I disagree. Trying to time your pickup of rotating coins in the USA stage: that's tedious. Slamming tiny demons over the head with your dragonshot: not so tedious. Yes, the coins fall and you need to be there to catch them, but that just makes planning your route more interesting. Getting the technical bonus can be frustrating-- but getting it is SUPPOSED to involve risks/costs. Triggering coin heads is not especially frustrating, once you get a feel for where they are. I find it more frustrating locating the precise location of gemheads in Gunbird 2.

I think I'm really starting to get a decent grasp of how to score well in the first four stages. The problem for me is just surviving in 1-5. I believe that it's not as hard as it looks; it's just a matter of having a good plan and executing well-- no exceptional skills are needed, perhaps. Still, I'm far from having that plan worked out.

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:04 pm

Nemo wrote:
Rob wrote:You're a good sport, Nemo.
I'm just upset cuz scoring in DB is tedious as spit. I don't think people realize what they're getting themselves into.

i agree, but then scoring in pretty much every psikyo game is tedious.

while we're on the subject, how did we end up with a psikyo week anyway? cave and raizing obviously deserved a week each as they are completely awesome, but psikyo aren't in their league at all. Toaplan and Konami would both have been much more worthy of a week due to their outstanding contributions to the genre, with the added bonus that we'd have ended up with a shortlist which didn't include three incredibly similar games.

maybe next year we should have Comad, Dooyong and Takumi for our developer themed weeks?

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:06 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:how did we end up with a psikyo week anyway? cave and raizing obviously deserved a week each as they are completely awesome, but psikyo aren't in their league at all.

Thems is fightin words.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:13 pm

mulletgeezer wrote: while we're on the subject, how did we end up with a psikyo week anyway? cave and raizing obviously deserved a week each as they are completely awesome, but psikyo aren't in their league at all.

Well Psikyo is defenitely in a league of their own (take that positive or negative, depending on how you like their games)!
Psikyo games are certainly always recognisable as Psikyo games (maybe Space Bomber is the major exception on this rule though).
I have too little knowledge about Toaplan to draw conclusions on that but Konami imho hasn't really got it's own style per sé.

Psykio has it's fair share of adepts and totally deserve it's own week!

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:13 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:maybe next year we should have Comad, Dooyong and Takumi for our developer themed weeks?

Hahaha! (￣▽￣)
Don't forget Visco and Alummer.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:15 pm

professor ganson wrote:
mulletgeezer wrote:how did we end up with a psikyo week anyway? cave and raizing obviously deserved a week each as they are completely awesome, but psikyo aren't in their league at all.
Thems is fightin words.

Yeah!

And Rob will be waiting for you behind the old barn next to the mill at 4 pm to teach you a lesson about Psikyo! (please bring pen and paper)

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:22 pm

professor ganson wrote:
mulletgeezer wrote:how did we end up with a psikyo week anyway? cave and raizing obviously deserved a week each as they are completely awesome, but psikyo aren't in their league at all.
Thems is fightin words.

Sorry, Professor. I knew that question wouldn't go down well with everyone but i wasn't trolling (ok, maybe a bit) as i think this question needs to be asked. I guess as Super Laydock said it's just a popularity thing, but popular games aren't necessarily competition worthy.

i actually quite like psikyo games, i've invested time and money in them and 1cc'd a decent number of them now. I just don't think i would ever play them seriously for score if it wasn't for this competition as they don't have well thought out scoring systems.

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:26 pm

Icarus wrote:
mulletgeezer wrote:maybe next year we should have Comad, Dooyong and Takumi for our developer themed weeks?
Hahaha! (￣▽￣)
Don't forget Visco and Alummer.

Nice one. i'd not heard of Alummer but i've just played Zing Zing Zip for the first time today so i see they are worthy of consideration for next year. We could also have Bland week, Annoying week and Unknown Turds week.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:28 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:they don't have well thought out scoring systems.

I'm not in a position to disagree, as I feel like a novice in all of this. I'll let Rob do the heavy lifting.

I'll be really happy to break 500,000 (I've only gotten 432,00 so far) in this week's scoring competition, so my opinion is obviously not that of an expert.

Macaw · Post by **Macaw** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 2:50 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:they don't have well thought out scoring systems.

I think its a more a case of the scoring systems being bland and boring rather than poorly thought out. I'm not saying that I hate Psikyo games though, its just that I tend to like other shooters more

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:07 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:maybe next year we should have Comad, Dooyong and Takumi for our developer themed weeks?

That way Edge won't pick the wrong games for developer-neutral weeks (ps why did you lump takumi with those two you have no taste you should have chosen NMK)

mulletgeezer wrote:Bland week, Annoying week and Unknown Turds week.

That's easy we can reuse the games from Retro Week and if Edge fucks up, Hidden "Gems" week

not bitter about retro week

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:13 pm

mulletgeezer wrote:We could also have Bland week, Annoying week and Unknown Turds week.

I'm really looking forward to those, but we already had Annoying Week this year, twice even. At least I distinctly remember playing Blazing Star and Batrider for one whole week each.

Seriously, what's all this bitching about? As has been stated before by various board members, not every game has to have a scoring system of the idiosyncratic kind. Attaining a good score by simply surviving longer and shooting more stuff is good enough. There's absolutely no problem with that, as long as the game in question is not so easy that everyone clears it. Somehow I doubt that we'll see 2-loop-ALL scores for all players at the end of this playing week, even if the easiest of the bunch (Gunbird) wins the poll.

So what's the problem except for you preferring other shmups to those from Psikyo? Personally, I'm not particular fond of Raizing's works, yet I have no problem with a Raizing week being part of the contest.

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:38 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:
mulletgeezer wrote:We could also have Bland week, Annoying week and Unknown Turds week.
I'm really looking forward to those, but we already had Annoying Week this year, twice even. At least I distinctly remember playing Blazing Star and Batrider for one whole week each.

Seriously, what's all this bitching about? As has been stated before by various board members, not every game has to have a scoring system of the idiosyncratic kind. Attaining a good score by simply surviving longer and shooting more stuff is good enough. There's absolutely no problem with that, as long as the game in question is not so easy that everyone clears it. Somehow I doubt that we'll see 2-loop-ALL scores for all players at the end of this playing week, even if the easiest of the bunch (Gunbird) wins the poll.

So what's the problem except for you preferring other shmups to those from Psikyo? Personally, I'm not particular fond of Raizing's works, yet I have no problem with a Raizing week being part of the contest.

I have no problem with playing games to just survive and score points by shooting stuff, and i would compete happily in games of this kind - i was well up for playing starforce which i initially thought was exactly this kind of game, though it turned out not to be. The thing about psikyo games is that playing them for score tends to be less enjoyable than playing purely for survival.

As for my question about why we're having a psikyo week - it seems to me that popular opinion places cave and raizing well ahead of other shmup developers, and deservedly so i'd say. judging by our greatest shmups poll a few months ago many shmuppers see treasure as being one of the greatest developers, and of course at least 2 of their games have fine scoring systems, so why did we have a psikyo week and not a treasure/toaplan/seibu/konami week? as i said before i like psikyo but i don't think their games are good for scoring competitions.

it's just an idle question, no bitching was intended but i'd like to know what people think about this. i'm happy to compete at almost anything.

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:43 pm

Ok, I think that's enough trolling for now.

Seriously, what a good game is or what not is depending on PERSONAL opinion. While you may think Psikyo is bland someone else thinks Raizing is stupidly overcomplex. And I always see the same members bitching about the choices and polls. Other members don't like your favorite games and won't bitch about it all the time and just go and play whichever game gets picked. (the "I am out of the compo cause this poll sucks"-guy, left during the Raizing poll, so we shouldn't have had Raizing as a theme??) Having a "reasonable" discussion about the games and themes is nice, but just reading through posts of endless moaning starts to get tiresome.

And if you want to know why we have a Psikyo week. We had a discussion about the themes, I wonder why no one said anything against Psikyo as a theme back then?

And why we are at it:
I don't think better scoring players = more important opinion.
I am stating this as some lower scoring players are afraid to post their opinions because these would be attacked by some of our l33t players. We have 90+ participants in here and that's why we are doing a poll.

Please always remember that your thoughts are only your OPINION.
Not a matter of fact and everyone who disagrees is stupid...

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:43 pm

A seibu week would be totally fucking

though we can really only play four games but it's not like we were given even that much in raizing week

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 3:49 pm

professor ganson wrote:
mulletgeezer wrote:they don't have well thought out scoring systems.
I'm not in a position to disagree, as I feel like a novice in all of this. I'll let Rob do the heavy lifting. I'll be really happy to break 500,000 (I've only gotten 432,00 so far) in this week's scoring competition, so my opinion is obviously not that of an expert.

I disagree. I play Psikyo games for score and am always finding new ways to get points out of them - some more so than others.

Macaw wrote:I think its a more a case of the scoring systems being bland and boring rather than poorly thought out. I'm not saying that I hate Psikyo games though, its just that I tend to like other shooters more

How about "they made a game where the point is to blow shit up" ? You can still score well etc etc ... but it's a shooter. Blow shit up.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:06 pm

Edge wrote:And why we are at it:
I don't think better scoring players = more important opinion.

Unlike Icarus I haven't suggested anything I was any good at for Hidden Gems week

I am quite afraid of your "Hidden Gems" selection, though, as anything worth something (I also mean gameplay wise) that isn't from 1990 or older isn't exactly hidden.

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:16 pm

Thanks for the answer Edge I didn't really pay too much attention to this contest as the start so i wasn't sure exactly how the six themed weeks had been decided.

you're totally right about opinions being subjective but i expect everyone to understand this already, otherwise i'd have to add an IMHO at the end of most of my sentences which would be tedious. i totally believe in respecting the opinions and feelings of others but when it comes to trivial matters like this showing a little disrespect helps make the world a more interesting place. the only bit of pure trolling i'm guilty of here was comparing Takumi to Dooyong and Comad, though i honestly think they're only very slightly above that level of ineptitude.

Neverland · Post by **Neverland** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 5:22 pm

gunbird

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:07 pm

Turrican wrote:I've heard very little praise about Sonia or Rob...

Aw, c'mon, he's a little Takumi-obsessed and hates the SNES, but he's not a bad guy, really.

Seriously, though, the characters in DB aren't unbalanced to stupid levels, at least in my (somewhat limited) experience, each one has its own good and bad points, you've just got to adjust your strategy to take advantage of each one. I'm sure, at least when playing for survival, that one could do well with any of them if enough time was spent practicing. Scoring, however, might be a slightly different story...

Randy wrote:I propose Rob and Nemo as the " disfunctional duo of shmups".

Hee hee, am I the only one with the "Odd Couple" theme playing in my head as I read this?

Icky wrote:Don't forget Visco and Alummer.

I wouldn't mind a Visco week, since then everyone would be pretty much forced to pick one of the Vasaras.

Dexstell · Post by **Dexstell** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:29 pm

Gunbird

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:23 pm

professor ganson wrote: I'm not in a position to disagree, as I feel like a novice in all of this. I'll let Rob do the heavy lifting.

I definitely think DB has a scoring system as well thought out as any Cave game, though obviously not as complex. Anyone who can play ESP Ra.De. or Dangun Feveron and say DB isn't worthy is not of sound mind.

Of course namakoteam can all vote for Gunbird now and pick a really well thought out scoring system.

Jck · Post by **Jck** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:43 pm

I vote for Gunbird

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 9:15 pm

I think this is the current tally:

Dragon Blaze - 16
Gunbird - 13
Strikers 1999 - 7
Space Bomber - 4
Sengoku Blade - 1

I see two horses, now where are the other voters.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:23 pm

Rob wrote:Of course namakoteam can all vote for Gunbird now and pick a really well thought out scoring system.

Well, that would be truly spineless: to choose the lesser game because it's easier to master quickly. Somehow I think they don't need to pull such tricks.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:30 pm

I won't laugh at them if they choose the junior league game. I'm fine with either.

Dragon Blaze = great
Gunbird = 20 minutes, then Dragon Blaze

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:32 pm

how is gunbird easy again

i keep getting stomped in 1-4

also this game is pretty

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:39 pm

The patterns are simplistic, the bosses are very vulnerable to bombs (with the right character(s)). Of course progressing in the second round is not easy, like any Psikyo game except ZG2.

Post by **Icarus** » Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:57 pm

I think namakoteam would rather pick the game that we fare best at AND will screw up the competition royally. None of us can even stand Gunbird, so why the fuck should we pick something that we all hate, just to irk the rest of you people? To me, Gunbird, like the other older Psikyo (Sengoku Ace and Strikers 1945), is a piece of shit. I wouldn't even use the game disc as a coaster.

Oh, and FYI, I've been playing Psikyo all week, despite my hatred of the company. Don't expect me to take this playing week lightly.

shmups.system11.org

STGT 2k6- Week #4 Poll (Psikyo Week)

UNOFFICIAL RESULTS "EXIT POLL". Please vote via posting in the thread.