Gradius V vs Ikaruga

Arwing · Post by **Arwing** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:18 am

For some reason, I've just reignited my shmup love. Been playing Gradius V and RType Delta like a madman.

While playing Gradius V, I remembered Ikaruga, and how much more damned fun it is to play GV than that game.

I'm not a shmupper that ever plays for score, which is probably why many of the new shmups out there just dont hold my interest (GigaWing, Mars Matrix, DonPachi). I just want to go out there and blast every to hell, so the gimmicky white/black thing and 3 combos didn't quite click with me.

I guess I'm old school. Not into the gimmicks, just a good challenge like RType, Gradius or TFV (we desperately, desperately need another TF).

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 3:46 am

I'm sort of both ways with this.

Gradius had sort of a maximalist approach with the weapons and gameplay (I haven't played Gradius V so unless something radically different was done with the gameplay I am assuming this is still true.), while Ikaruga had sort of a minimalist approach with only the homing shot.

Even though I was born in '90 and have been heavily exposed against my will to every genre of videogame except shmups since birth, I still enjoy an oldschool shmup game where the main point was to blast everything to hell like Gradius. I also like Ikaruga because of it's simplicity of gameplay. No worrying about powerups or items, or checkpoints, just jump in and shoot with an easily understandable scoring system. When's the last time you did anything involving color coding?

Besides, I can get Ikaruga for my GC and not Gradius.

PFG 9000 · Post by **PFG 9000** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:15 am

I can't get into Ikaruga. For me, the polarity thing is just too complex for a genre that's typically reflex-based. My mind doesn't like to keep switching between which colored bullets I can absorb and which ones will kick my sorry arse at this particular second.

I love Gradius V, but it's far from my favorite Gradius. It IS my second-favorite current-gen shooter though (behind Shikigami no Shiro 2).

WarpZone · Post by **WarpZone** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 6:23 am

It will be interesting to see which of the two comes out on top in the next annual voting...

Personally I think they're both the best shmups of all time, although Ikaruga is also my favorite game of all time. One is a score-oriented game, and one is more of a survival/endurance-oriented game, so I can see why the two don't always go together for people, but I love both approaches when they're done so well.

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:42 am

Pirate1019 wrote:..
Even though I was born in '90 .....

you were BORN in 1990?

ok.. that gigantic SMACK that im sure you all heard was reality slapping me in the face.
damn im old. lol

Arznei · Post by **Arznei** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:04 am

My 6 year old cousin plays Cho Aniki. He was born in 2000.

YES, THE YEAR

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:11 pm

Atomic wrote:
Pirate1019 wrote:..
Even though I was born in '90 .....
you were BORN in 1990?

ok.. that gigantic SMACK that im sure you all heard was reality slapping me in the face.
damn im old. lol

Yes, I am only 16 years old and I really like playing shmups. Reality bites doesn't it?

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 7:50 pm

Describing the polarity and chaining system as "gimmicky" doesn`t do it justice. It is a score-shooter at heart, and one that you can play nearly forever. There once was a whole forum just for Ikaruga. To me, it`s the game that shows the most of Treasures perfection (next to Alien Soldier

).

On the other hand, chaining is hard, but feels extremely rewarding. It`s clearly not everybodys cup of tea.

As for the "Gradius V vs Ika", I´d say Gradius V has tons of atmosphere (and so does Ikaruga), and it made me enjoy the Gradius formula, a series I didn`t like very much before. But Gradius just takes forever to finish, whereas Ikaruga can be 1cc'ed quite quickly, but has a huge replay potential.

Gradius V is a really, really good shooter, but Ikaruga is one of those shmups that felt extremely fresh, well done, and innovative.
Seeing replays of japanese players somewhere around Loop 10 is really intense stuff.
Ah damn it, both are great games, and I`ll quit that post before we drag Radiant Silvergun into the discussion, too.

@Pirate1019: RATM rules

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:04 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:..
@Pirate1019: RATM rules

Indeed they do.

FrederikJurk explained it better than I could. I have to agree with him 100%.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:11 pm

Well thank you. And the whole age-thing is a bit nonsensical, my interest in shmups started maybe two years ago. There are players that kept playing shmups despite the other genres slowly taking over, and others, like me, discovered it by accident. And it`s a good thing to see how mixed our community is - the "Show you face" week is always a fine surprise that proves this.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:15 pm

Pirate1019 wrote:
FrederikJurk wrote:..
@Pirate1019: RATM rules
Indeed they do.

I just remembered that they DID. I went on a concert once here in Hamburg, and while I haven`t been on much concerts, that was the best so far. That was actually quite a while ago. (But enough derailing the topic here!)

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:21 pm

Derailing topics keeps things interesting.

Anyyway, I have a question simply out of curiosity. How is Gradius V different then the other gradius games? Is it the exact same game or did they throw in some new twist?

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:16 pm

you are no longer hopeless after a single death, for starters

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:26 pm

Gradius V has no Moai heads.

Seriously, that`s the biggest difference - the Moai head section (those heads look like the big stone heads on the easter islands) has been in every other Gradius game. Other than that, in other Gradius game you get set back to a check point if you die, no respawn there. And, obviously, no picking up your old options again. This makes Gradius V a bit less frustrating (EDIT: A WHOLE LOT less frustrating); pick up your options, get some speed ups, laser, and you`re mostly set again. If you die in other Gradius games you`re mostly screwed and defenseless.

Some weapons are Gradius V exclusive, too, especially the sweet bending lasers. I haven`t played other Gradius games enough to tell you all the details, but if you like Gradius V that doesn`t mean you will like the whole series; likewise, some people didn`t like the changes Treasure made. The respawn after death and picking up your option was part of a Parodius game, I think - I always liked Parodius much more than Gradius itself. Treasure gave V a very distinct feel. And the bosses are easily the best part of V IMO - the bosses in Gradius III are real pushovers sometimes.

tviks · Post by **tviks** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:46 pm

Gradius V.

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:51 pm

Pirate1019 wrote:
Atomic wrote:
Pirate1019 wrote:..
Even though I was born in '90 .....
you were BORN in 1990?

ok.. that gigantic SMACK that im sure you all heard was reality slapping me in the face.
damn im old. lol
Yes, I am only 16 years old and I really like playing shmups. Reality bites doesn't it?

yes.. yes it does.

hahaha

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:53 pm

Ahh, I see. I never did like the loss of all of your powerups in Gradius. I would play until I died once and then just give up. Sounds a lot better than previus Gradius games. Now I just need a PS2...

lawnspic · Post by **lawnspic** » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:37 pm

Gradius V and Ikaruga were both developed by Treasure, in case anyone did not know that. You can see the influence in Gradius for sure as far as visual style goes. Treasure did a great job on Konami's flagship shmup.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:10 am

Arznei wrote:My 6 year old cousin plays Cho Aniki. He was born in 2000.

Does that fall under current child abuse laws?

Pirate1019 wrote:How is Gradius V different then the other gradius games?

Aside from the stuff Fred mentioned, another thing worth noting is that your hitbox is much smaller than in previous Gradii, making some insane dodges and whatnot possible (there were some links to some replays of GV in the umpteenth loop in a previous thread: in any other Gradius game, those situations would be impossible to survive). As was also said, GV was developed by Treasure, and thus has a bit of their signature "style" to it overall...I can see where the camp which says that it's not a "true Gradius" comes from. The "option control" button adds another new bit of strategy and variety to the game, and while a few of the frustrations from earlier in the series remain, several have been tweaked to make the game less frustrating, though it's still plenty tough.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:18 am

Gradius V vs. Ikaruga?

[rant]

IMO, both are the same kind of over-ambitious crap you always get from Treasure. At least Ikaruga is short, but GV should have been split into two games. Some stages just drag on forever. The need to master the option control to get through certain spots is gimmicky and annoying and, along with other things, really breaks with the trademark Gradius feel of the series. And while there aren't any Moais in the game, the typical Moai stage is still there. It's the one with the asteroids, which plays pretty akin to the Moai stages of earlier Gradius games. Would it have hurt to throw in at least one or two Moais there? I think they just didn't know how to fit them in artistically, seeing as the mechanical stages (which are pretty unusual for a Gradius game after all) all look great, while the bio stages look like crap. It seems the guys just can't get anything looking good if it's not shiny metal or something like that. (Come on, the asteroids look like potatos.)

[/rant]

Post by **Icarus** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 8:04 am

Herr Schatten wrote:(Come on, the asteroids look like potatos.)

NEW SECRET WEAPON TO BE MADE AVAILABLE IN GRADIUS VI:

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:16 am

Isn`t it a bit weird anyway, that Konami hires Treasure to develop a sequel of a long-standing and popular series? I mean, the Treasure staff split from Konami because they were sick of sequels. I always thought that would mean that Treasure and Konami are angry with each other or something. That Treasure made their own interpretation of a Gradius game should have been clear from the start, some like it as whole, some like it as a Treasure game, some hate it as an improper Gradius game.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:26 am

Now look what I`ve found here:

http://www.geocities.jp/bgr44gsl/

The "Start up" pages shows your hitbox (exactly the cockpit), and the level selection shows you hand-drawn diagrams of each stage. I had a Gameboy game guide back in the early 90ies, that had such hand-drawn "screenshots" as well. I miss that book.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 11:30 am

Icarus wrote:
Herr Schatten wrote:(Come on, the asteroids look like potatos.)
NEW SECRET WEAPON TO BE MADE AVAILABLE IN GRADIUS VI:

add this item to your game for only $4 at the sony online store for your copy of gradius vi

extrarice · Post by **extrarice** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:50 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:The "option control" button adds another new bit of strategy and variety to the game...

You could fiddle with some of the options modes in SNES Gradius 3 (formation options and rotating options).
Actually, come to think of it, aside from the insanely smal hitbox and checkpoints, SNES G3 and GV are quite similar in style, at least to me.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:31 pm

extrarice wrote:You could fiddle with some of the options modes in SNES Gradius 3 (formation options and rotating options).

Sort of, although in the SNES version whever "type" of option you chose was always "in effect," while in GV you had to activate/adjust it manually, which gave you a bit more in terms of options (pardon the pun).

Actually, come to think of it, aside from the insanely smal hitbox and checkpoints, SNES G3 and GV are quite similar in style, at least to me.

I can see how you'd say that...actually, GIII also included the "reduce" shield, which shrank your ship, so you could even toss the "small hitbox" in there, though to a far lesser extent than in V.

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:37 pm

is GV 480p?

also, ive been debating on getting a PS2 just for the shooters they have available on the system. everything seems cheap enough now that i can justify getting one just for that and a few games.
can anyone tell me if the shmups on PS2 are worth getting one now that its all pretty cheap?

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:58 pm

The PS2's a great shmupping system, especially considering you can also play PS1 stuff on it. You'll definitely want one that plays Japanese games though, as a lot of the shmups on the system never made it outside of Japan.

DJ Incompetent · Post by **DJ Incompetent** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 7:59 pm

480p. Jesus I wish. Frankly, I can't remember any game Konami put out that let you do 480p.

As long as it's not a menu option in the actual game, you can find out if almost any PS2 game goes progressive just by holding all 4 right-side face buttons before the game starts to boot up (hold @ Playstation 2 logo).

First few pages of a game manual will also burb a little bit about 480p and how to trigger it if the game supports it.

Atomic · Post by **Atomic** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:29 pm

DJ Incompetent wrote:480p. Jesus I wish. Frankly, I can't remember any game Konami put out that let you do 480p.

As long as it's not a menu option in the actual game, you can find out if almost any PS2 game goes progressive just by holding all 4 right-side face buttons before the game starts to boot up (hold @ Playstation 2 logo).

First few pages of a game manual will also burb a little bit about 480p and how to trigger it if the game supports it.

well shit.. thats a disappointment.
i wonder what shmups are 480p for the PS2..

i may have to check a PS2 out anyway from what BM says about it..