Why no Ketsui home port?

NTSC-J · Post by **NTSC-J** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 2:31 pm

He didn't look too shaken by it. I felt pretty neauseated myself but he looked completely apathetic.

His initials were OUG and his final score was ~375m.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:20 pm

I said it before, everytime I've gone to Hey, regardless of the day, someone is in the 2nd loop of Ketsui. Without fail. Go on a Friday before Arcadia's high score cutoff. You'll see someone in the 2nd loop of everything.

fl0w · Post by **fl0w** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:18 am

BulletMagnet wrote:This has been discussed before on a couple of threads, but to the best of my knowledge, in summary, Arika (the ones who ported DOJ and Galuda to the PS2) were originally planning to port Ketsui, but some sort of misunderstanding occurred between them and Cave, and their relationship to each other more or less went kaput. As such, Cave's been porting their own stuff since then, with Taito as publisher; couldn't say why they haven't bothered to do a "retro" port of Ketsui, maybe they'd just prefer to focus on their newer stuff. Rumors persist of an eventual PS3 port, but rumors are all they are for now...

Someone else could probably fill in the details.

I'm curious, could Ketsui TECHNICALLY be ported to the Wii, according to what we know of the specs of the console and what we know of Ketsui's hardware?

I don't want to start a war, I don't care which next-gen is the best, I don't want to know if Cave will ever port Ketsui, I'm just wondering what we could TECHNICALLY expect from the WII shmupwise.

Thank you.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:32 am

only speculations based on rumourous thin ice but - isnt the wii already notoriously underpowered? even surpassed by the current generation (xbox, ps2, gc) ?

i seem to recall nintendo going on about "innovating gameplay" instead of pushing more pixels?

in any case i dont think the wii is the platform for shmuppers, not since their glory days of the SNES have nintendo given a rats ass about shmups?

id say PS3 because sony will release just about anything or xbox360 because MS are desperate to break ground...?

Kaede · Post by **Kaede** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:51 am

sven666 wrote:only speculations based on rumourous thin ice but - isnt the wii already notoriously underpowered? even surpassed by the current generation (xbox, ps2, gc) ?

The Wii will be slightly more powerful than the GC.

I also happen to think this is the machine most shooters (if any) will appear on next gen, given Nintendo's support for old games and gaming styles. Metal SLug collection has been announced so let's hope more 2d collections follow.

Also, given the machines similarity to the 'cube, it could be quite likely to receive ports of any future Naomi games?

Arznei · Post by **Arznei** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:36 pm

Not this shit again....

fl0w · Post by **fl0w** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:33 am

Arznei wrote:Not this shit again....

What's your problem?

SAM · Post by **SAM** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 1:36 am

BulletMagnet wrote:....couldn't say why they haven't bothered to do a "retro" port of Ketsui, maybe they'd just prefer to focus on their newer stuff. ....

A home port of Ketsui could always been done, I think the main reason why it don't, it because it had passed the best time to do it (i.e. bussiness oppotunities)

I guess Cave feels a home port of Ketsui is not profitable enough to justify the resource spent on such a project. i.e. a port of other Cave's shmups is think as more profitable.

Cave only publish 1 (at most 2) home port a year, some games will distinated have to be skiped. If Cave port Ketsui next year, it might turn out that we are would be missing a home port of ESPgaluda II forever.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 5:40 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Arika's PS2 ports still use interlaced modes,
Flip the TV on it's side -- problem solved!

Sorry for the ancient thread revival, but I tested this just now and tate mode on both Arika ports are still interlaced (480i).

15KHz unfiltered: yes.

Proper arcade resolution (ie: ~240 lines progressive scan): NO!

Simply put, there are only one or two PS2 shmups that offer progressive scan.

Conversely, most of the original Playstation games are proper progressive scan. I have a few of the Parodius titles for PSX which all offer progressive scan complete with arcade-perfect scanlines. No such deal for most PS2 shooters.

Again, this is the default as set by the PS2 SDK. It can be changed by the developer if they desire. The proof is the "Treasurebox" compilation which blatantly offers both 15KHz progressive (ie: 240p) and interlaced (ie: 480i) display choices from the options menu.

This is not a hardware limitation, but developer/publisher laziness, ignorance or complete lack of motivation. Not surprising, since for the average Japanese gamer these titles are available at their nearest game center. For the developers/publishers, putting effort into these home ports is mostly pointless. The same points have been made recently about console versions of fighting games for exactly the same reasons.

Again, apologies for drudging up old crap, but the point needed to be corrected.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:23 am

Sorry for the ancient thread revival, but I tested this just now and tate mode on both Arika ports are still interlaced (480i).

15KHz unfiltered: yes.

Proper arcade resolution (ie: ~240 lines progressive scan): NO!

You are doing something horribly wrong then. DOJ and Galuda are both 240p games in TATE mode.

Undeniable
Truth

oxtsu · Post by **oxtsu** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:58 am

Probably had it set in TATE HOSEI.

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:59 am

Was checking quickly on a lower quality monitor. Could be the culprit. Blurry as crap. Was definitely TATE not TATE HOSEI.

Will slap it into the high-quality RGB later next week and try again, and this time take some macro photos with the DSLR.

[edit]
RGB's out of action. A quick test on the Component CRT however proves that I am indeed a tool and it is true progressive mode. Serves me right for testing on poor equipment and shooting my mouth off.

Back to my hole...

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:11 pm

Yeah, Galuda & DOJ on low quality monitors itself is a bit blasphemous.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:41 pm

Ibara, aside from Black label being included the port really sucks

Why does that port suck??

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:33 pm

Strider77 wrote:
Ibara, aside from Black label being included the port really sucks
Why does that port suck??

Well, one more reason now.
1: Black Label is not included. Arrange Mode is not Black Label.
2: Native resolution not supported
3: Slowdown not emulated, which is pretty necessary in a few spots.

FYI -- Mushihime-sama suffers from the same issues.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:03 am

Well, one more reason now.
1: Black Label is not included. Arrange Mode is not Black Label.
2: Native resolution not supported
3: Slowdown not emulated, which is pretty necessary in a few spots.

OH....... in other words a pretty good port. I swear "no emulated slowdown" the horror.

Sorry I had to vent... all said in good sport.

FYI -- Mushihime-sama suffers from the same issues.

Thats a different story.... MAJOR resolution issues.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 9:15 am

Mushi may not slow down in the right spots, but it definately slows down.. alot.

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:13 am

You say DOJ and Galuda have progressive options?

Are we talking 31khz here, or something completely different?

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 12:29 pm

neorichieb1971 wrote:You say DOJ and Galuda have progressive options?

Are we talking 31khz here, or something completely different?

Progressive merely means non-interlaced. It doesn't refer to a resolution or scan frequency.

240p is 240 lines progessive, and is still 15KHz. 480p is 480 lines progressive and 31KHz.

DOJ and Galuda are 15KHz only.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:09 pm

OH....... in other words a pretty good port.

No, bad port. A 3rd party did near undiscernable ports of the two previous Cave games, (and had way more content to boot). Cave did these ports, which is unforgiveable. Certainly this doesn't bother everyone, especially for a $60 game, but some of us only buy a handful of games a year, and want to see effort put into them. In gaming terms, old farts such as myself at the ripe old age of 31 cringe at what some companies do to appease the young and/or unattentive gaming population. Cave is the last company putting out games similar to what we grew up on. If you're a stickler for quality, the Mushi & Ibara ports are just heartbreaking.

Post by **Icarus** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 10:14 pm

Funny as it sounds, Ibara is lethal without the slowdown. I've had the PCB for an age now, and playing the port is like playing a completely different game (and no, I wasn't playing Arrange at the time ^_-). Not to mention the few difference between Ibara PCB and Ibara PS2 Arcade Mode (stage5 triple large tanks being the biggest change).

When you're used to doing a set strategic routine in a shmup, changing to something that plays even the tiniest bit different does throw you off. Run a search on the forum for the timeless discussion of "DDP: PSX vs Saturn vs PCB" (title not exact) for an idea of what it entails.

kccttzj · Post by **kccttzj** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 2:24 am

I know this is a little off topic, but I figured I'd post it in here instead of making a new thread.

Anyway, the guy I work for is willing to get Ketsui, but he wants to make sure that the menus and everything have enough english in them for people to understand the game. I was just wondering if anyone could verify it for me (even though I know it will be playable), to give him peace of mind.

Thanks,
KP

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 4:12 am

kccttzj wrote:I know this is a little off topic, but I figured I'd post it in here instead of making a new thread.

Anyway, the guy I work for is willing to get Ketsui, but he wants to make sure that the menus and everything have enough english in them for people to understand the game. I was just wondering if anyone could verify it for me (even though I know it will be playable), to give him peace of mind.

Thanks,
KP

It's all in english. There's not really even a 'menu' or anything; but what is there is english.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:07 am

Even the "don't sell this out of Japan" message is English, as usual. Even in the test menus, the Japanese words are romaji. Tell him to go for it, and watch the credits disappear!

zakk · Post by **zakk** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:30 am

As an added bonus they even spelled 'Please' correctly in this game.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:52 am

No, bad port

I've seen far, far worse than this... I think calling this a BAD port is a bit ridiculous. I can see how anyone can long for a perfect port, but I think calling this a horrible uselss port is a bit dramatic.

I'd really like to hear a few others opinion on the Ibara port...

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:41 am

The Ibara port is indeed BAD. So bad I cannot play it anymore (I just play the PCB now). The Mushi port is much better in comparison.

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:46 am

Why is it so bad? Other than no slowdown and resolution... other than those 2 reasons why is it so awful?

Post by **Dave_K.** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:52 am

Strider77 wrote:Why is it so bad? Other than no slowdown and resolution... other than those 2 reasons why is it so awful?

Its awful for hardcore players who already have the PCB. For regular shmuppers here who can't afford the PCB, and don't mind the interlaced picture, its a great game, and not one to pass up if you are a raizing fan.

EOJ · Post by **EOJ** » Tue Sep 26, 2006 6:53 am

For all the reasons Icarus and GaijinPunch stated. Seriously, if you play the PCB then you realise how crappy the PS2 port is, the lack of slowdown totally changes the game. The PS2 version is still enjoyable, particularly with the added Arrange mode, but for those looking for an 'accurate port', you won't find it there.