Most inessential Psikyo vert.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:06 am

Rob wrote:If you clear one Psikyo game (1st round anyways) there's pretty much no thrill left in doing it in another Psikyo game. Eventually you'll want to chain all of the coins on GB2's USA stage.

Concerning 1st loop clear: Is it clear the Gunbird is the easiest Psikyo vert to clear?

Concerning chaining GB2's USA stage: The painfulness of the aggravation involved in attempting this outweighs (for me) any satisfaction I might take in the accomplishment, by a lot.

Pirate1019 · Post by **Pirate1019** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:11 am

I've never seen GB2's USA stage. What makes it so aggravating/challenging to chain?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:15 am

professor ganson wrote: Concerning 1st loop clear: Is it clear the Gunbird is the easiest Psikyo vert to clear?

I think so. In GB the bosses are too easy to bring down with a bomb (takes out much of their offense).

Pirate1019 wrote:I've never seen GB2's USA stage. What makes it so aggravating/challenging to chain?

There's about 16-18 coins in a relatively small area. Oh yeah, and the cactus shooters' fast bullets.

gameoverDude · Post by **gameoverDude** » Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:27 am

The most inessential and mediocre one is Sol Divide. Maybe Taito were going for a theme by including it with Dragon Blaze, but I think Strikers 1999 should've gone in there instead.

SD is a little too reliant on the melee attacks. It's not the Wings of Wor/Forgotten Worlds type game I had hoped for when I bought it in the original PS1 release earlier. Psikyo apparently tried more for a Golden Axe clone in midair with some shooting. The character and boss designs aren't bad, but the game play generally is not typical Psikyo quality. Sengoku Blade trumps it.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:18 pm

I'm afraid of the results for the Psikyo poll already.

Also, my Dreamcast is busted.

My predictions (if in the poll):
1. a Strikers (not II)
2. Sengoku Blade or Gunbird
3. Dragon Blaze

Limbrooke · Post by **Limbrooke** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:21 pm

professor ganson wrote:Concerning chaining GB2's USA stage: The painfulness of the aggravation involved in attempting this outweighs (for me) any satisfaction I might take in the accomplishment, by a lot.

I believe that stage is what killed Gunbird 2 for me.
I've been meaning to try again but I got rid of my PS2 pack a while ago and otherwise I don't know if I really liked that game enough in the first place.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Sat Sep 23, 2006 12:40 am

Limbrooke wrote:
professor ganson wrote:Concerning chaining GB2's USA stage: The painfulness of the aggravation involved in attempting this outweighs (for me) any satisfaction I might take in the accomplishment, by a lot.

I believe that stage is what killed Gunbird 2 for me.
I've been meaning to try again but I got rid of my PS2 pack a while ago and otherwise I don't know if I really liked that game enough in the first place.

I can fully understand someone giving up on GB2 because of the USA stage. What were they saying about USA, I wonder?

I REALLY hope Edge puts ported games on the list for Psikyo week. Not only is that my favorite week; it's probably my last chance to participate because I fully expect that hidden gem and cave weeks will be emulation only.

I think Rob is right that a Strikers game is most likely. Didn't the last competition include Gunbird? If so, that probably won't win. DB is quite possibly the best game ever made. It should win, but won't.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:33 am

I finally found a ship in S99 that has something marginally appealing about it. Hallelujah.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 7:00 pm

I take back what I said in the first post. For the most part.

Does anyone have problems with the emulation, though? How do/can I remove the message about missing background layer on the 1-8 boss? It's in the way of the dodging.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 9:33 pm

Strider77 wrote: I've never realized until I came to this board how many folks purely play shooters for scoring. I see how that's fun for folks and gives it a competitive side. Honestly the reason I play shooters, the main reason, is because I like to shoot stuff, lots of it and be heavily assaulted in return. The biggest reason is just that for me, I don't need fancy score multipliers to be satisfied. I enjoy trying to one credit more than high scoring. It's that white knuckled aspect that keeps me coming back and wanting more of these types of games.

I guess scoring is so tasty for many players for several reasons. If you already 1cc certain games easily, you have an additional challenge, you can go far beyond than just playing through it. However, many modern games are really hard to 1cc (erm, for me at least), and a 1cc in Mars Matrix for instance is far FAR out of reach at the moment. When playing for score, I have a objective scale to measure my progress - I still can beat my own score, seing that I did well, while any missed try to 1cc a game feels like a failure to me.

Another reason is that playing for score builds up on playing for survival - my best MM scores combined good consistency AND survival. Also, the relation between score and survival is different in each game - you can play Ikaruga ignoring the chain system and voilà, you have quite an easy 1cc, but the leveldesign shows its cleverness only in score play. In other games, surviving and scoring are closer together, Progear or Espgaluda come to mind. You`re usually focussing on different aspects in score play, it gets a more strategic side.

Last but not least score play has a more competetive edge to it, saying "Yeah, I got to the boss in level 5 and then died" is different from saying "Player A got 300,000 more points than me".

There have always been score-shooters and survival-shooters and much in between; from my experience, the 1cc is more a console gamers mindstate (FINISHING a game), while arcade games always have been more about score (well, I guess besides a very small elite nobody finished PAC-MAN). It gets funny when someone can 1cc a game while somebody else dies mid-game but has a bigger score.

EDIT: Of course you don`t 1cc console games since you`re not dropping coins into your console. You can do that but you might end up breaking it. I guess you still get the point

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:02 pm

FrederikJurk wrote:If you already 1cc certain games easily, you have an additional challenge, you can go far beyond than just playing through it.
...
you can play Ikaruga ignoring the chain system and voilà, you have quite an easy 1cc, but the leveldesign shows its cleverness only in score play.

Yeah. This is almost another topic that I've wanted to make. I think a set of people on here equate playing for score with simple one-upmanship. While it's nice to have something to be proud about, the fun is in the added challenge, details and problem solving.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:44 pm

I am too lazy to go searching right know, but I`ll be damned if there isn`t already a topic about that.

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:14 pm

Rob wrote:I take back what I said in the first post. For the most part.

Does anyone have problems with the emulation, though? How do/can I remove the message about missing background layer on the 1-8 boss? It's in the way of the dodging.

Oh god. If you *EVER* figure this out, please let me know. I've been fighting this since they put these stupid warning messages in (somewhere around mame 100).

What's worse is with mame 108, they are even taller, making it even harder to see through the 1-8 boss (phase 3) spray.

So far, the best way around it is to turn transparency up 100% on the menus. You still get the warning but can see through it.

Otherwise, just learn how to dodge under the big rectangle (which is what I've been doing for a long time now).

As for ship selection, the ships are pretty different. Some are strong, some are weak, thus requiring different methods of killing some of the enemies. For example, the 2nd ship (the stealth) can kill shit REALLY quick by point blanking it with those mines it shoots out. But it's so damned slow. It is by far the hardest to finish with.

Some have homing weapons while others have a narrow firing pattern requiring you to fly all over the place to kill enemies.

And if the first loop gets too easy for you, take on Geobite on stage 6 instead of CrossBinder or whatever it's name is.

If that is STILL too easy for you, go for the double tech bonuses. I've only ever seen 1 person able to pull those off. I have never done it.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:24 pm

use (wolf)mameplus problem solved

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:22 am

Twiddle wrote:use (wolf)mameplus problem solved

How so? WolfMame 108 still shows a warning at the 1-8 boss.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:49 am

landshark wrote:
Twiddle wrote:use (wolf)mameplus problem solved
How so? WolfMame 108 still shows a warning at the 1-8 boss.

Goddamnit.

I haven't upgraded past .103 so I'm not exposed to this shit.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:03 am

So are we saying that Strikers 1999 is unplayable on recent versions of MAME? Looks to be disqualified.

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 5:05 am

Icarus wrote:If only Psikyo had the same quality Engrish as the Neo Geo batch of shooters.
"Full Power for Limited Time?" "GET IT MORE!"

I beg to differ.

No! Go to star!

Strider77 · Post by **Strider77** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:18 am

So are we saying that Strikers 1999 is unplayable on recent versions of MAME? Looks to be disqualified.

couldn't you just use an older version then?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:48 am

landshark wrote: As for ship selection, the ships are pretty different.

I'm going to cycle through them some more, but Harrier is the one that turned my lack of interest around. And...

And if the first loop gets too easy for you, take on Geobite on stage 6 instead of CrossBinder or whatever it's name is.

If that is STILL too easy for you,

I don't think lack of difficulty will be a problem. How do I get a different boss on 6?

Ko.oS · Post by **Ko.oS** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:50 am

prepositioning. go watch a replay. ;)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 7:54 am

I say no to replays.

Frederik · Post by **Frederik** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:16 pm

Frogacuda wrote:
Icarus wrote:If only Psikyo had the same quality Engrish as the Neo Geo batch of shooters.
"Full Power for Limited Time?" "GET IT MORE!"
I beg to differ.

No! Go to star!

Degenerate president!!

landshark · Post by **landshark** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:52 pm

Rob wrote: If that is STILL too easy for you,

I don't think lack of difficulty will be a problem. How do I get a different boss on 6?[/quote]

You know those 2 moving turrets at the end of level 6, and the ejection bay the boss pops out of? Notice how their are 3 ports. Each corresponds to a section of the screen. Just before the boss ejects, either stay in the center, or at the edges of the screen to trigger each boss.

If you stay in the center, you get Cross-Something (the easiest of the 2). If you stay to the edges, you will trigger Geobite (and wish you haden't). He's one of the toughest 1st loop bosses of any psikyo game.

We could drop back to an earlier version of mame to play Strikers 1999.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:08 pm

landshark wrote: We could drop back to an earlier version of mame to play Strikers 1999.

OK, I was too hasty. NOT disqualified.

Mills · Post by **Mills** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:47 am

AERO FIGHTERS for me, was the 1st because it put the young programming heads of Psikyo on the shump videogaming map before they became psikyo the videogame making company. then came their 1st debut solo effort under psikyo brand name being SAMURAI ACES, then GUNBIRD, and STRIKERS1945, and the rest is history.

dave4shmups · Post by **dave4shmups** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:59 am

Sengoku Ace is the one that I would pick. It's about the most boring vert. shmup I've ever played; most of the ships have a very slow speed to them, and there's just nothing-compared to other Psikyo shmups-that even stands out. I honestly had more fun playing Sol Divide then I did this one.

llabnip · Post by **llabnip** » Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:25 pm

They are all essential. They are Psikyo. You will be assimilated.

I love Psikyo - tending towards the older stuff more than the newer stuff. All of their verts are excellent. Since you asked for verts... I'd say Dragon Blaze is the most inessential.

For what it's worth, my ranking of Psikyo shooters is as follows (with Strikers I and II being my 2nd and 3rd all-time favoraite games behind Radiant Silvergun - both the original Strikers are worth owning and playing):

1. Strikers 1945 part I (Saturn) - Classic, pure shoot-em-up action without too many gimicks to get in the way of the action. It's the core of all that I find Psikyo. One of the few games I'll be buried with.

2. Strikers 1945 part II (Saturn and PSX) - Refined in many small ways and probably a bit better technically, but I have a soft spot for the original with its snow stage and fitting music and simplified charge-shot. But this is still a great game in every respect.

3. Zero Gunner II (DC) - Great verizontal and one of my top 10 shooters. One of the best 2-player co-op shooting games around. It also seems to be the most "different" in the Psikyo shooter lineup (again not counting Sol Divide) while still retaining many elements that I love about Psikyo. Having 3 Psikyo shooters in my top 10 is reason enough for me to mourn the loss of their shooter development.

4. Sengoku Blaede (Saturn) - Lovely visuals, great music and a side-scroller with a vertical feel. I played this a ton when I first got it but less so now. I put it back in my Saturn the other day and has a blast again. I really must play this more.

5. Gunbird (Saturn) - Challenged to break into my top 10 for a while, but sort of fell off a bit for some reason. I love the art and music and it has that classic Psikyo feel, but I prefer the Strikers series.

6. Sengoku Ace (PS2) - Love it! It keeps rising - most people put this at the bottom of their lists (well, above Sol Divide which I'm not even going to comment on). It's here in Psikyo's first effort (not counting the similiarities and holdovers from Video Systems early efforts) that we see the core of what made Psikyo great. I love the music and visual direction here - and the simplicity makes it all the more charming to me. I think they got better with Gunbird I but this always holds a place in my heart.

7. Gunbird 2 (Dreacast) - I don't like the short-range proximity attack. Not sure why. It just bothers me. I don't care for the increased bullet count. Some of the backgrounds don't seem to jive with me. The overall theme seems somewhat more goofy than the original - just a shade beyond my goofy-threshold. The original is more to my liking.

8. Strikers 1999 (my local Papa Ginos has it!) - I'll put quarters in just to support my local pizza joint for having Street Fighter Alpha and Strikers cabs - but I don't like the goofy techincal bonus and the music is a step down from previous incarnations. It's not bad by any stretch and I'm always happy to play it, but for me it's the weakest in the series.

9. Dragon Blaze - I want to love this game. The theme is perfect. The game, however, just goes a step beyond the simplicity that I've come to love about Psikyo. The screen seems too busy. The short-range attack is just too foreign for me. The technical bonus mechanism is back much to my chagrin. I can understand why some would put it at or near the top of thier most essential and/or favoriate lists and I'd have a hard time arguing against it because the things I don't like about it are welcome changes for others. But for me, it simply falls flat. I know this is where Psikyo was headed - but the evolution seems to have gone in a direction I wouldn't care to follow.

As far as I'm concerned, all of the games above are phenomenal. The bottom of the barrel here is still miles better than many other shooters. I liken Psikyo to ZZ-Top. If you like one of their games/songs, you are likely to enjoy all of them to some extent. There are enough common elements to see that they all belong to one big happy family.

Mills · Post by **Mills** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:25 am

FrederikJurk wrote:Space Bomber is a killer game, the Wario Ware of shmups, and more scoring mechanisms than all other Psikyo games combined. "Degenerate president!!"

Space Bomber, yeah i remember that game attracting alot of chinese/japanese girls to play it at a london arcade (casino arcade). Very colourful and very different from the traditional enemy mechanical stuff. bloody tuff for a shump not to be take seriously.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:40 am

Remember when I said that thing about all Psikyo games having that 3 bullet spread at undodgable speeds? Well I was playing some Psikyo games today and apparently I misspoke and I apologize.

Sometimes the spreads have more than three bullets.

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Most inessential Psikyo vert.

Re: Most inessential Psikyo vert.