About amputations.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:22 am

Wait until you get mugged by a stoned fuckhead and see if you think those laws are horse shit. And yes, that happened to me. In broad daylight. In downtown. During business hours.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:01 am

Specineff wrote:Wait until you get mugged by a stoned fuckhead and see if you think those laws are horse shit. And yes, that happened to me. In broad daylight. In downtown. During business hours.

Stoned people don't go mugging others for a fix, or any other violent crimes. They focus all concentration on the closest cheeseburger. Crackheads are another story, but there are plenty of poor people not on crack that will commit these crimes in the first place. The drugs are often a coincidence.

Like I said, there are people who use/abuse and fuck it up for the rest of them. For every one of those, there are thousands of others who get high responsibly, just like for every whackjob with a gun that shoots someone, there are thousands of others that use their gun responsibly. One difference is you can't shoot someone with a joint though.

EDIT: Reminds me of something an old girlfriend of mine used to say. "I do drugs, I don't let drugs do me."

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:37 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Stoned people don't go mugging others for a fix, or any other violent crimes. They focus all concentration on the closest cheeseburger. Crackheads are another story, but there are plenty of poor people not on crack that will commit these crimes in the first place. The drugs are often a coincidence.

Look, he was high. He attempted to take my watch off me. I wasn't going to run a test to see what exactly he was intoxicated with. But the fact is that he had his eyes fully bloodshot, unintelligible talk, and smelled of something that wasn't alcohol. I wouldn't have felt better if it had been a hungry hobo or similar. One coincidence is too many. And I doubt he would have gone for food if he had the chance to get his fix with the money he would have gotten from my watch, if he had succeeded. It wouldn't have happened if he hadn't done drugs in the first place. And the fact that non-addicts also steal and mug others doesn't justify or make his drug use less of a cause.

GaijinPunch wrote:Like I said, there are people who use/abuse and fuck it up for the rest of them. For every one of those, there are thousands of others who get high responsibly,

That's the same shit that my father used to say. "Getting drunk responsibly". For days without end. Missing school days. Puking blood and pieces of esophagus. Stealing money from his own son. Do "responsible stoners" think: "OMG. I'm so high right now that I might hurt someone if I go out or get in the car. It's better if I stay home though the world is going to miss how I feel that I'm invincible, or feel that I can fly, or let them see these beautiful kilt-wearing echidnas who sing Enya's "Only Time" backwards in Navajo"? Of course not. How can there be responsability if the main effect of getting high is impair your judgement?

GaijinPunch wrote: just like for every whackjob with a gun that shoots someone, there are thousands of others that use their gun responsibly. One difference is you can't shoot someone with a joint though.

Responsible gun owners do not change their personality upon pulling the trigger at an inanimate object, animal, or person. A fired bullet will not necessarily harm someone once fired. Getting high *WILL* at least affect one person, and not in a positive way.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 5:08 am

The n00b wrote: FACT: ALCOHOL HAS BEEN RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERY DRUNK DRIVING FATALITY

FACT: SEX IS THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF STDs

FACT: GOD IS CITED AS THE NUMBER ONE REASON FOR COMMITING SUICIDE BOMBINGS

FACT: NOT MANAGING YOUR CREDIT CARDS CAN LEAD TO FINANCIAL RUIN

I've got a pitchfork in the garage, now who's got the torches??

Your forgot that:

Fact: Ninjas are mammals.

Fact: Ninjas fight ALL the time.

Fact: The purpose of the ninja is to flip out and kill people.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:09 am

bloodflowers wrote:You can whine about the injustices all you like.

Fact: drugs affect different people to different degrees.
Fact: they screw up -some- peoples lives, this has a knock-on effect. Daddy gets hooked on heroine and loses his job, now the family needs welfare.
Fact: they actually kill some people, Ecstacy did this.
Fact: some drugs finance other crime
Fact: drug addiction can lead to crime (stealing for the habit, i KNOW people who went down that path)

Given the above statements, it's only logical that:

Fact: they're illegal - yes there are some injustices, shit happens.

I'm so sick and tired of the pro drug takers bitching and whining that it's just not funny anymore. Take them if you like, hell, OD if you want - I don't give a damn, but don't for a second think it's ok to push the viewpoint that they're fun and mostly harmless, on a forum with a readership where many aren't even legal adults.

This was my point, about having a social conscience. If you want to discuss how happy and great your new LSD is, there are other forums for that - you're probably already members.

I'm so sick and tired of people who have no clue what they're talking about attempt to speak with authority about drugs, not to mention the fact that they make it look like everyone who is against drug prohibition as "pro drug" when a lot of the people are against drug prohibition because of all the ridiculous side effects of it. Pick up a book, man. Milton Friedman, Nobel prize winning economist? Pro drug idiot. William F Buckley jr? Pro drug idiot. The academic and to a fairly large extent the police consensus is that the drug war is a FAILURE. It's not working now and it never will. It's based on false pretenses, that you can scare people away from a substance with threat of legal action.

Your points are ridiculous and are just scare examples with no basis in reason. Drugs are expensive because they are illegal. When was the last time you saw an alcoholic kill a person to go and get more booze? Some drugs finance other crime... you guessed it... BECAUSE THEY ARE ILLEGAL!!!! When was the last time a criminal enterprise bootlegged liquor?

The simple, irrefutable FACT is that the MAJORITY OF DRUG USERS ARE NOT PROBLEM USERS. They are not addicts, they are not homeless, they are not dangers to society. Your examples are of a MINORITY. By your logic, we should wage a war on alcohol because it has screwed up some peoples lives and we should arrest everyone who drinks beer even if they don't have a alcohol abuse problem. That's the logic of drug prohibition. When is your social conscience going to campaign for the criminalization of alcohol consumption?

Not to mention the fact, that the goal of drug prohibition is to stop people from using drugs. In case you haven't noticed, IT DOESN'T DO THAT. The Netherlands, a place where marijuana laws are lax and where its controlled in a legal market place has a LOWER rate of use than the United States. Explain that one. Hell, explain why in my thesis from last semester, which was a quantitative analysis of the effectiveness of marjiuana laws, lower use rates in the 50 United States nearly directly correlated with higher perceived risks and not with the stringency of the law. People don't care what the law says, as long as they feel it is appropriate. You're not scaring anyone away from drugs simply by branding them illegal or making the penalties severe. Shit, I'll even upload my correlations and data sets for you if you want.

All the drug war does is lump all drug users together, create an illegal marketplace where gangs and terrorists can take advantage of inflated black market prices. A few hundred dollars worth of cocaine in Colombia because a few THOUSAND dollars worth of cocaine once it crosses the border in to America. When something has such great profitability, you will never EVER be able to stop people from smuggling it.

Your social conscience is a joke and is simply a disguise for the fact that you don't respect people enough to allow them to make their own choices. I'd like to see you go to Colombia and tell the people who have their legitimate crops (and at times, their family members) sprayed with pesticide in an attempt to kill coca plants that "shit happens" and to stop whining about injustices when their families are killed by narco terrorists. There's your social conscience.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:28 am

Acid King wrote: Explain that one..

Easy. The Netherlands doesn't have Mexico down there sending them weed across miles and miles of ass-long border.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:43 am

Specineff wrote:
Acid King wrote: Explain that one..
Easy. The Netherlands doesn't have Mexico down there sending them weed across miles and miles of ass-long border.

That's because they produce in house, legally, so there's no need for illegal importation. If that were the case, legalization would lower the rates of use. I'd assume that's not what you're going for.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:03 am

Fuck, no. Alcohol is already legal here and see the problems it causes. Can you imagine the chaos (And the amount of people severing their own penises

) if they legalized pot?

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:32 am

Specineff wrote:Fuck, no. Alcohol is already legal here and see the problems it causes. Can you imagine the chaos (And the amount of people severing their own penises ) if they legalized pot?

Why would you have to? Go to the Netherlands and see the proof. Not only does it cut out any black market activity associated with that drug, you generally see use go down. The people using it b/c it's taboo no longer want to use.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:41 am

But the fact is that he had his eyes fully bloodshot, unintelligible talk, and smelled of something that wasn't alcohol.

Uh... dirt or other general grime maybe? Other drugs don't have a smell that you can notice. Even weed. Tobacco stench is like 10x stronger than marijuana, and even that can hard to smell on someone outdoors. You're basically saying you know nothing about drugs, and are assuming this guy who could've been homeless, on the streets for God knows how long, or any number of things was smoking pot. Silly.

"Getting drunk responsibly". For days without end. Missing school days. Puking blood and pieces of esophagus.

He was obviously drinking irresponsibly. Just b/c I say I say something doesn't make it so. While I admit use and abuse of illegal substances is a slight grey area, what your father was doing was clearly black and white.

"OMG. I'm so high right now that I might hurt someone if I go out or get in the car. It's better if I stay home though the world is going to miss how I feel that I'm invincible, or feel that I can fly, or let them see these beautiful kilt-wearing echidnas who sing Enya's "Only Time" backwards in Navajo"? Of course not. How can there be responsability if the main effect of getting high is impair your judgement?

"Impair your judgement" does not mean "make you think like a fucking moron". While there are some drugs that might do that (PCP) they are extremely rare these days, and not generally not an issue.

Specineff wrote:Fuck, no. Alcohol is already legal here and see the problems it causes. Can you imagine the chaos (And the amount of people severing their own penises ) if they legalized pot?

Why would you have to? Go to the Netherlands and see the proof. Not only does it cut out any black market activity associated with that drug, you generally see use go down. The people using it b/c it's taboo no longer want to use. I'm sorry to break this to you dude, but the psychological effects of marijuana are a fraction of what alcohol does, and how many people succesfully get absolutely SMASHED without severing their cocks? Millions every day.

Getting high *WILL* at least affect one person, and not in a positive way.

Now how could someone that's never gotten high say that? Do you listen to music? I can take a shot in the dark and say statistically a large portion of anything you've heard on the radio was written under the influence of something illegal. I'm sorry that you've not been exposed to the real world, but one day you will see that just b/c somene smokes grass or maybe does some coke at a party it doesn't make them any of the things you've said.

Responsible gun owners do not change their personality upon pulling the trigger at an inanimate object, animal, or person. A fired bullet will not necessarily harm someone once fired.

You go wrestle with the short-tempered redneck packing heat with a chip on his shoulder... I'll work out my problems with the pothead... any day of the week.

IlMrm · Post by **IlMrm** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:46 am

This reminds me of a great episode I watched on COPS. The officers pulled over a vehicle, and noticed a strong smell of marijuana. After questioning the occupants the occupants were issued citations. The officer tried to reason with the dude, telling him not to drive when he's high, and the dude responded by saying people handle drugs differently. He said for some the drug makes them more alert. So the officer ask if he would fly in a plane if the pilot is high, and the dude says yeah, because the pilot could be benefitting from the drug.

Priceless. They got the funniest(and serious) stuff on COPS.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:01 am

Well, I didn't say you should drive (or fly a plane) under the influence. Sounds like a real winner -- having a cop letting them off with a citation and then trying to talk his way out of basically a slap on the wrist. (moron). Anyways, I didn't say it's for everyone, and definitely don't think it makes you cool or trendy. I just think it's about the smallest of troubles America has, yet people seem to single it out as an epidemic.

Thunder Force · Post by **Thunder Force** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:13 am

IlMrm wrote:This reminds me of a great episode I watched on COPS. The officers pulled over a vehicle, and noticed a strong smell of marijuana. After questioning the occupants the occupants were issued citations. The officer tried to reason with the dude

Littering and... Littering and... Littering and...

smokin' the reefer.

http://www.reelingreviews.com/supertrooperspic.jpg

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 1:07 pm

GAIJINPUNCH wrote:I'm sorry that you've not been exposed to the real world, but one day you will see that just b/c somene smokes grass or maybe does some coke at a party it doesn't make them any of the things you've said.

Gaijin... I worked at a social aid agency as translator for people who had fucked up their lives. Please. I know that I saw what I saw when I saw it. The bruises, the broken teeth, the sale of the bus tickets one of the social workers had given them just minutes ago so they could go look for a job, the having-to-suck-dick-to-get-money, the shattered lives. Gee. I wondered what made them like that. Maybe exposure to diswhashing detergent, or vegetable dye used on a shmup's manual.

That has more weight than any theory or explanation. And that, is the real world.

Everyone. Look, I know that I'm sounding quite preachy and will cease now. Any substance addiction will hurt your life, and I can't see it otherwise after seeing Penis Boy, all those cases in the social aid agency, and my father destroy himself and us burying him like that. One occurrence was enough for me.

Nuke · Post by **Nuke** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 3:36 pm

Acid King and GAIJINPUNCH. It'll be hilarious seeing you both post horror stories in a couple of years on how "drugs ruined your lives"

Don't be expecting sympathy from me tough, you apparently "had it under control" and "knew what you were doing".
And of course the "Social conscience" is wrong, It's not like scientists have been recerching the effects drugs have on you since the late 1940's.......

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 4:49 pm

Littering and... Littering and... Littering and...

smokin' the reefer.

Hahahaha..."The Snozzberries taste like Snozzberries!"

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 10:10 pm

Any substance addiction will hurt your life,

I think you should say "any addiction will hurt your life" to which I would agree 100%. The degrees vary, but what I'm talking about is use not addiction. Your argument seemed to convey that the two were synonymous, to which I can assure everyone they are not. In all honesty my game hobby/addiction has had a more negative impact on my life than any chemical.

Nuke: You will not hear such things from me. As I stated, I'm not a drug user, but was. It is a part of my past, and thus has taken a part in what I am today. Besides geographic location, I am completely content with myself - I wouldn't be anyone else for the world. The main reason I quit was pressure from the wife, as her complaint was "that shit is for kids, and it's time to grow up." She was pretty much right, and here I am today.

On the flip side, that's not to say that I haven't seen people fuck their lives up, and drugs be a contributor to that. A good friend/ex-roommate of mine did just that. He's now digging himself out of a hole. Again though, I think these people are the exception. Remember that Simpsons episode where Homer joined the NRA, and had a meeting at his house and was using his gun to open up beer, change the channel, turn off the lights, etc and the rest of the group was disgusted with him? It's like that. Just b/c one guy abuses his firearm doesn't mean everyone does.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:09 am

Nuke wrote:Acid King and GAIJINPUNCH. It'll be hilarious seeing you both post horror stories in a couple of years on how "drugs ruined your lives"
Don't be expecting sympathy from me tough, you apparently "had it under control" and "knew what you were doing".
And of course the "Social conscience" is wrong, It's not like scientists have been recerching the effects drugs have on you since the late 1940's.......

I've done tons of drugs and have never had an abuse problem with any of the substances. I held a 3.0 throughout college, I got a 5 out of 6 on the GRE writing test and I got accepted to a PhD program at a school that was ranked in the top 20 worldwide for political science graduate programs. I've seen my share of people fucked up on drugs, I've also seen plenty of people who have used drugs and didn't fuck up there lives. Whether you believe it or not doesn't matter, it's a fact, look at the statistics.

Five years from now when I have my doctorate and am teaching at a university, I won't be looking for your sympathy. Most likely I'll be laughing at you and your stupid assumptions about drugs and drug users.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 2:10 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
Any substance addiction will hurt your life,
I think you should say "any addiction will hurt your life" to which I would agree 100%. The degrees vary, but what I'm talking about is use not addiction. Your argument seemed to convey that the two were synonymous, to which I can assure everyone they are not. In all honesty my game hobby/addiction has had a more negative impact on my life than any chemical.

Nuke: You will not hear such things from me. As I stated, I'm not a drug user, but was. It is a part of my past, and thus has taken a part in what I am today. Besides geographic location, I am completely content with myself - I wouldn't be anyone else for the world. The main reason I quit was pressure from the wife, as her complaint was "that shit is for kids, and it's time to grow up." She was pretty much right, and here I am today.

On the flip side, that's not to say that I haven't seen people fuck their lives up, and drugs be a contributor to that. A good friend/ex-roommate of mine did just that. He's now digging himself out of a hole. Again though, I think these people are the exception. Remember that Simpsons episode where Homer joined the NRA, and had a meeting at his house and was using his gun to open up beer, change the channel, turn off the lights, etc and the rest of the group was disgusted with him? It's like that. Just b/c one guy abuses his firearm doesn't mean everyone does.

Good call, Gaijin. I think what most people who make those kinds of arguments against drug users do not realize that abusers are the minority. the majority of drug users use then stop and go on to live healthy, normal lives.

Specineff · Post by **Specineff** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:01 am

*Insert comment here to drag the arguments longer*

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 4:56 am

Specineff wrote:*Insert comment here to drag the arguments longer*

Heh, well played, Spec.

greg · Post by **greg** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 5:05 am

The best episode of COPS I saw was some guy who'd stolen some butterfly collectios from a museum. When they arrested him, he was like, "I have to set the birds free!" That guy was tripping...

Acid King wrote:I've done tons of drugs and have never had an abuse problem with any of the substances. I held a 3.0 throughout college, I got a 5 out of 6 on the GRE writing test and I got accepted to a PhD program at a school that was ranked in the top 20 worldwide for political science graduate programs.

A poli-sci major? Intending to be unemployed?

I really hope you sober up before applying for any jobs. Your impressive 3.0 GPA won't do a lot of good if you can't take a simple wizz-quiz. Yes, you can try lecturing them all about facism because they want you to piss in a cup, but they probably won't care.

Five years from now when I have my doctorate and am teaching at a university, I won't be looking for your sympathy. Most likely I'll be laughing at you and your stupid assumptions about drugs and drug users.

If you truly are the "Acid King" and get a job teaching at a university, how do you expect to handle the situation when you suddenly find yourself having a flashback during one of your university lectures? Look, I may have stupid assumptions about drug users, but the fact remains that while you're young and having fun messing with your mind, you can't expect to not have any reprocussions from your unwise actions. All it takes is one slip up, being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you're marked. You may think that it's possible to be a responsible drug user (although most everyone finds that to be an oxymoron), but once you've been busted once, every time someone does a reference check on you, whether it's for a job application or for a mortgage or whatever, you certainly won't be laughing then.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:20 am

A poli-sci major? Intending to be unemployed? I really hope you sober up before applying for any jobs.

This is a joke, right? The last two presidents have both directly (Clinton: "I didn't inhale") and indirectly (Bush: "no comment between 1972 and 1978") admitted that they've done illegal drugs.

All it takes is one slip up, being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you're marked.

Touche'. Stick your dick in the wrong place and you can die a slow death, or even a painful life with burning pee. Even so, last I checked, young kids fucked all the time though. I don't think either of us said there were no concequences, but even a casual pot user in the state is running extremely low risk of long term detrement.. Possesion under 2 ounces is a misdemeanor.

but once you've been busted once, every time someone does a reference check on you, whether it's for a job application or for a mortgage or whatever, you certainly won't be laughing then.

Only for felonies. Misdemeanor's don't count.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 10:41 pm

greg wrote:The best episode of COPS I saw was some guy who'd stolen some butterfly collectios from a museum. When they arrested him, he was like, "I have to set the birds free!" That guy was tripping...

A poli-sci major? Intending to be unemployed? I really hope you sober up before applying for any jobs. Your impressive 3.0 GPA won't do a lot of good if you can't take a simple wizz-quiz. Yes, you can try lecturing them all about facism because they want you to piss in a cup, but they probably won't care.
Passing a piss test won't be too difficult considering I don't use drugs regularly anymore, not to mention that nearly every drug is out of your system within days. The only exception to that is weed, which can stay in your body for weeks but that's only for people who are heavy users and since I quit smoking a while ago... you catch my drift. Heh, as for unemployed, I prefer the term employment impaired.

If you truly are the "Acid King" and get a job teaching at a university, how do you expect to handle the situation when you suddenly find yourself having a flashback during one of your university lectures? Look, I may have stupid assumptions about drug users, but the fact remains that while you're young and having fun messing with your mind, you can't expect to not have any reprocussions from your unwise actions. All it takes is one slip up, being caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, and you're marked. You may think that it's possible to be a responsible drug user (although most everyone finds that to be an oxymoron), but once you've been busted once, every time someone does a reference check on you, whether it's for a job application or for a mortgage or whatever, you certainly won't be laughing then.

The prevalence of flashbacks in people who have taken LSD is greatly over blown. I've never had a flashback, probably because i've never had a bad trip or taken a retarded amount. By the way, my name is a reference to the band Acid King and to Ricky Kasso, the self proclaimed Acid King.

I don't think it's possible to be a responsible drug user, I KNOW it's possible. Saying it's not possible to be a responsible pot smoker or anything else is like saying it's not possible to be a responsible drinker since everyone forgets that alcohol is a drug like pot, LSD or heroin and will fuck you up just as much if not more. Not to mention you can actually die from alcohol withdrawal, the same can't be said about cocaine or heroin. Most people think responsible drug user is an oxymoron, but then again, most people have no clue what they're talking about.

And for the record, the best episode of cops is when a guy gets pulled over for speeding He has a joint tucked behind his ear and he proceeds to talk to the cop completely unaware he's got incriminating evidence in plain site. When the cop asks him if he is high or smoked marijuana he says no. The cop pulls the joint out from the guys ear and the guys says "See, that proves I'm not high because that's the joint I would have smoked." Priceless.

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:11 pm

The cop pulls the joint out from the guys ear and the guys says "See, that proves I'm not high because that's the joint I would have smoked." Priceless.

LMAO... did he get arrested?

CMoon · Post by **CMoon** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 12:43 am

This thread is still going???!!!

Specineff wrote:Fuck, no. Alcohol is already legal here and see the problems it causes. Can you imagine the chaos (And the amount of people severing their own penises ) if they legalized pot?

Actually, given the #1 problem we face is over population, I say bully for anything that makes people sever their own penises!

GIVE UP YOUR REPRODUCTIVE RIGHTS (make a better world for ME!)

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 7:33 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
The cop pulls the joint out from the guys ear and the guys says "See, that proves I'm not high because that's the joint I would have smoked." Priceless.
LMAO... did he get arrested?

Yeah, though the cop didn't ticket him for speeding or whatever he was doing.

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:49 pm

Wow. I haven't looked at this thread since I saw that it was about amputated dicks. Now it's a drug thread. It should be re-titled.

In a forum about shmups there must be a significant number of us who like to get high while playing, so it is kind of offensive when someone comes along and says drugs are for losers. The uproar here should have been expected. No one has been insulting anyone for NOT doing drugs, so lay off.

I've had a job at a university for 13 years and have smoked pot the whole time, so I'm not a casualty. I've known many people who don't get carried away with it and are careful & discreet about it. Just because you survey some waste-case heroin addicts and learn that they started with pot doesn't mean pot is always a "gateway" to ruin. You would also discover that these same people started drinking beer before they did pot, so does this make beer a "gateway drug" too?

magnum opus · Post by **magnum opus** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 9:25 pm

cheddar is a gateway cheese. it leads to other cheeses

sffan · Post by **sffan** » Wed Mar 23, 2005 12:06 am

magnum opus wrote:cheddar is a gateway cheese. it leads to other cheeses

Maybe so, but cheddar won't necessarily lead to cheez-wiz.