Shooting Game Tournament 2006

[mulletgeezer]

re: Dropzone and Uridium - i seem to remember reading a thread on the definition of shmups ages ago in which fixed scrolling was generally agreed as being a requirement for a shmup, and therefore those 2 games wouldn't be defined as shmups? I may have imagined this, and i certainly see them as shmups. Dropzone is a great game but i'm not sure it would be a good choice, it's an easier game than it first seems and games can take an hour or two once proficiency is gained. I'd also say that it's less interesting than Defender from a strategy point of view. How about Iridis Alpha? An amazing game which is both retro and very much a hidden gem. It's a wonderful game with lots of depth that many here won't have seen, though it's perhaps not a shmup in the purest sense.

[freddiebamboo]

I'd like to see either advanced batrider or advanced bakraid for the raizing week.

[BulletMagnet]

It emulates like crap in MAME. Slow as hell and full of glitches.

Not to mention that the PS1 version has lots more slowdown...and of course we'd have to outlaw the yellow ship. Perhaps the slowdown issue should be taken into consideration when deciding whether either of the Strikers 1945 games are eligible...IIRC the Saturn and PS1 versions of those have major differences in that area, which could give owners of one port or the other a marked advantage over those with the superior port, or emulation...

Also, here's a more "complete" list of what I might nominate for Hidden Gems week:

Vasara
Vasara 2
Nostradamus
Cybattler
Mazinger Z

A few other possibilities...

Twinkle Star Sprites
Xexex
R-Type Leo
Thunder Cross 1 or 2
19XX

[Guts]

I don't understand some choice. What do you mean in fact by "Hidden Gems" ?

[ill6]

I think we should play Omega Fighter Special/UPL. I played it once a while ago and it seemed pretty fun.

Also, might be good to have a week where we get some play on games that don't have a high score table (Nightraid*, Sengeki Striker, ASOII, Gekiridan, Guardian Force*, Image Fight, In the Hunt, X Multiply etc)

*=not practical I suppose.

[BulletMagnet]

I don't understand some choice. What do you mean in fact by "Hidden Gems" ?

Basically, games that not too many people play/know about, but are still good games, in most aspects anyways. Obviously, not everyone's going to agree on whether a game is good enough to be called a "gem" or not (or "hidden" for that matter), but I figured I'd toss out a few titles I thought might fit the bill.

[Shatterhand]

ill6 got it right , we HAVE to play Omega Fighter at some point. This should be in the hiddem gem week poll for sure.

It's frantic action with a very cool scoring system.

Brave Blade would be a good choice for Psikyo week. It runs like crap in mame, but it's very smooth when playing it on Zinc.

Uridium 2 was released in 1993, but I think it also would be a great option for the hiddem gem week... but I think there may be a way to have an infinite score on it, as levels only end when you decide to land your ship. Could someone confirm that? (OR maybe I can confirm myself next week). If not, the game even has some ways to improve your score which are directly linked with your skill, not how far you can go in the game.

And I've been convinced that Dragon Blaze should be in the Psikyo list. I still am not sure about Gunbird 2, but Dragon Blaze should be. Also Strikers 1945 plus and Strikers 1999.

For me, that should be the Psikyo List:

Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 plus
Sengoku Blade
Dragon Blaze
Brave Blade (or maybe Gunbird 1 here, if Zinc isn't a viable option to everyone)


And we have 3 votes for Beamrider being in the retro week so far...

[Herr Schatten]

Brave Blade would be a good choice for Psikyo week.

If only it wouldn't have been made by Raizing.

[ill6]

Del tells me Brave Blade is good; I only played it once when I bought it and would like an excuse to install it again.

[BulletMagnet]

What herr Schatten said, heh heh. But forgive me if this is a stupid question: what is Zinc? Is it an emulator which plays Brave Blade better than MAME does?

[Shatterhand]

Forget about it, Herr Schatten just pointed out how stupid I am

Brave Blade indeed is from Raizing, not Psikyo

So... erm, let's put Sol Divide in the Psikyo Poll!


Yes, Zinc is an emulator that runs Brave Blade better than Mame . It also runs Bloody Roar 2 very well, which is good as I love Bloody Roar (Though I own the PS1 version anyway)

[professor ganson]

For me, that should be the Psikyo List:

Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 plus
Sengoku Blade
Dragon Blaze
Brave Blade (or maybe Gunbird 1 here, if Zinc isn't a viable option to everyone)

There are so many quality Psikyo games that are available for home consoles, I see no reason to include ones that are emulation only. At any rate, there is no need for most to be emulation only.

Am I the only one that dislikes emulation? It's not a moral issue for me, exactly. More a matter of taste, I guess.

Anyway, my list would be:

Gunbird
Gunbird 2
Strikers 1945 I
Dragon Blaze
Sengoku Blade

[Icarus]

I'd love an excuse to play Brave Blade again. If only I had a better joypad for my supergun though. -_-;;

[Randorama]

Three cheers for Omega fighter. it's actually very score-driven and challenging.

[Guts]

Basically, games that not too many people play/know about, but are still good games, in most aspects anyways. Obviously, not everyone's going to agree on whether a game is good enough to be called a "gem" or not (or "hidden" for that matter), but I figured I'd toss out a few titles I thought might fit the bill.

Ok, I really was mistaken about the definition of this category. Thank you ^^

[landshark]

Please get Strikers 1999 on there as well. More people have played Strikers 1 & 2 than have played 3. Plenty of scoring opportunities from the medal chains to the tech bonuses. It is also not a difficult game to learn, with no realy chaining (aka DDP) and less memorization than the current Blazing Star (combos).

[Shatterhand]

If in a poll, for any chance, appears a game that I have experience, should I say, or can I stay in silence and then surprise everyone?

I am not talking about what's right or wrong, I am talking about the RULES.

[BulletMagnet]

If Strikers 1999 is allowed, one might want to specify if the hidden plane is allowed, since apparently it's loads more powerful than any of the other craft...

As for Psikyo games and memorization...er, I'll let someone else make that argument this time around.

[professor ganson]

As for Psikyo games and memorization...er, I'll let someone else make that argument this time around.

Yeah, I don't think any argument is necessary. On the other hand, Psikyo week is just one week. Every week some teams will have advantages over others just because of familiarity with the games involved. It's unavoidable but not so regrettable.

[Turrican]

[Soukyugurentai] emulates like crap in MAME. Slow as hell and full of glitches.

Fine - but I wonder what sense had to brag about Mame dictatorship when the Italians asked for a contest, and then basically choose games only from the Mame list...

Not to mention that the PS1 version has lots more slowdown...and of course we'd have to outlaw the yellow ship.

No big deal - the Psone comes with an "arcade" mode, stripped out of every extra, included the unfair yellow ship.

re: Dropzone and Uridium - i seem to remember reading a thread on the definition of shmups ages ago in which fixed scrolling was generally agreed as being a requirement for a shmup

Nah, forced scrolling isn't considered a crucial requirement anymore, since we took proto-shmups in category, thus allowing Space invaders and the likes.

[Rob]

Quoted for great truth. If you have to choose a very difficult game, I'd say better DBlaze than Gunbird 2, at least there are less "veterans" around.

For the love of. Seriously, check the high score thread. The only person in this comp. to get past 2-1 is cigsthecat (that I'm aware of).

[Icarus]

Fine - but I wonder what sense had to brag about Mame dictatorship when the Italians asked for a contest, and then basically choose games only from the Mame list...

I think you're confusing "MAME dictatorship" with "accessibility". Your fellow countrymen effectively "forced" players into using WolfMAME for a proposed tournament, which in effect cut a distinct group of players out of the available/potential participants list. This, however, is picking games that are both well emulated and available as ports, broadening accessibility. Some of this tournament's participants are using the MVS/AES version of Blazing Star (and have an aversion to emulation), which is something a WolfMAME-centric tournament wouldn't allow.

[BulletMagnet]

Fine - but I wonder what sense had to brag about Mame dictatorship when the Italians asked for a contest, and then basically choose games only from the Mame list...

I think the issue there was requiring everyone to play in MAME and record a replay, even if they had a port...in any case, that's over and done with now.

No big deal - the Psone comes with an "arcade" mode, stripped out of every extra, included the unfair yellow ship.

Well, there's still the slowdown issue. But it doesn't matter anyways, as everyone doesn't have access to it to begin with.

[DJ Incompetent]

Perhaps the slowdown issue should be taken into consideration when deciding whether either of the Strikers 1945 games are eligible...

Offset by the nutjob collision detection and "packed too tight" bullet pattern adjustments.

At least PSX anyway.



and then 45 Plus has the default lives being 2 issue for US versions while others are 3...should that be addressed when nominating?

Am I the only one that dislikes emulation? It's not a moral issue for me, exactly. More a matter of taste, I guess.

Right there with you prof. I. HATE. EMULATION. It's like taking a fresh pepperoni pizza and adding gum & watermelon seeds.

But we know why it's there. What other device would allow the possibility of 90 people around the globe competing in the same thing? Especially since games I've never heard of are suggested rampantly.

Maybe we should have 2 polls for the off week to suggest the next game. One with a lengthy list of game suggestions. The 5 or 6 that are really getting votes get started in another poll later in the week to determine the final choice.
This idea may also deter people from getting a whole week of practice down to under half a week because of uncertainty of game choice.

[Turrican]

Quoted for great truth. If you have to choose a very difficult game, I'd say better DBlaze than Gunbird 2, at least there are less "veterans" around.

For the love of. Seriously, check the high score thread. The only person in this comp. to get past 2-1 is cigsthecat (that I'm aware of).

What do you imply by that? that all players are pretty much on the same level? Getting to the second loop in Gunbird 2 isn't an easy task, at least for me Anyway, what I meant is that Dragon Blaze is more recent, both in home release and MAME-ability.

@Icarus, BulletMagnet: yes guys, I think you are right. Thanks for correcting me.
I guess I'm just frustrated that I'd like to play too, but cannot use MAME.

[Rob]

What do you imply by that?

That "veterans" overstates it a bit. There's only a few people who have tried to put more into the game than a basic 7 level clear (15 minutes!!), and as one of those people, I've failed miserably. Hard game.

[The Coop]

why don't you put *every* cave game, and *every* raizing game up for the vote...?

There's an idea I like.

At least then I'd have a shot at being able to play, as opposed to having no chance whatsoever. I know I personally don't own that many games by Cave or Raizing, so suddenly eliminating half the two companies line up and effectively kicking someone like myself out of the competition is rather harsh.

[Acid King]

Cave-
Dangun
Donpachi
Guwange
ESP Ra.De.
Progear

Raizing-
Great Mahou Daisakusen
Battle Bakraid
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen
Mahou Daisakusen
Batrider

Seconded.

[Nemo]

I vote for ESPgaluda II for Cave week.

[Shatterhand]

Changing the subject a little...

Playing Blazing Star for competition is making me notice something interesting about myself.

When I play in a COMPETITION I completely change my stance toward gaming... I've also noticed that when playing Winning Eleven before... when I am playing with friends, I sometimes lose some stupid games, but when I am in a TOURNAMENT, I just concentrate in a whole different way, and I become the unbeatable monster of Winning Eleven (Well, almost )

I remember in a discussion with Randorama, I saying how I'd thinking watch myself playing, replay the same section over and over and over or making notes would be stupid, because it's not fun and it doesn't make sense, when all is supposed to be fun.

But I have to admit, when playing in Ramus shmeets and playing this now, I am doing some of this stuff... well, not the point of recording myself playing then watching, but I've been paying attention to stuff I wouldn't pay if I was playing "just for fun", not to mention I've saved the game in a lot of spots where I was having difficulty, let the game run and just watch to see what exactly it's happening, and playing that section over and over and over and over so I can play it properly in a "serious run" (This helped me a LOT in miliking the 3rd boss, for example). I've watched the 72 mil video, and rewinded and watched the sections where I thought there was something interesting to learn... the only thing I didn't do was making notes in a notebook, but I made a lot of "mental" notes... I got really surprised when I actually knew everything that was going to attack me A LOT BEFORE they showed up on screen, something I usually don't do while playing a shmup.

So, Rando, you were right, and I was wrong , whatever the argument was . This is actually fun, but only if I am playing in a weekly competition.

I think I would not have the discipline to do that if I didn't know I had ONE WEEK to do my best