Shooting Game Tournament 2006

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:05 am

I actually agree with Turrican when he disagrees with me

Dropzone is a good choice, but is it old enough?

There's an MSX defender clone called "Desolator" which is incredibly good, and it has some crazy stuff like suicide warps, enemies that steal power-ups icons (And actually become STRONGER

) and enemies that fire like if they were in a Cave game. (here's some info about the game: http://www.juegomania.org/msx/17 )

Hmm.. maybe Uridium on the C64?

We could also go for the Atari 2600 version of Defender, though this one sucks (Though I played it a lot back when I was like 4 years old and I loved it

). 2600 Stargate was a good port, we could play that instead.

ANd yeah, please NO Space Bomber. We already played that in the older shmeet.

Doesn't Gunbird 2 and Dragon Blaze have lots of experienced players?

I'd say, let's go for Sengoku Ace, Strikers 1945 Plus, Sol Divide (eh?:D), Sengoku Blade and..... hmm.. Strikers 1945 I? Or.. erm... Dragon Blaze, heh?

Does it always have to be 5 choices?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:21 am

Shatterhand wrote: Doesn't Gunbird 2 and Dragon Blaze have lots of experienced players?

No.

I'd say, let's go for Sengoku Ace, Strikers 1945 Plus, Sol Divide (eh?:D), Sengoku Blade and..... hmm.. Strikers 1945 I? Or.. erm... Dragon Blaze, heh?

Stick to retro stuff.

Games like Sengoku Ace are worthless for score. And maddeningly crap.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:26 am

is Sengoku Ace that bad?

If Dragon Blaze has no experienced players here, I'd say go for it.

But I believe Gunbird 2 has many people who have played the Dreamcast version a lot.

Sol Divide indeed is crap.

oh hell, I think there's not a psikyo game which someone haven't played a lot. So I want my Strikers 1945 plus , as its their game I have more experience (Used to reach 1-8 without much hassle

)

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:38 am

Shatterhand wrote: But I believe Gunbird 2 has many people who have played the Dreamcast version a lot.

A few and no huge advantage. Psikyo games are surprisingly left unmastered here for the most part. I think this is much more of an issue for other weeks.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:42 am

Rob wrote:
Shatterhand wrote: But I believe Gunbird 2 has many people who have played the Dreamcast version a lot.
A few and no huge advantage. Psikyo games are surprisingly left unmastered here for the most part. I think this is much more of an issue for other weeks.

I used to play that on my DC quite a bit. I got pretty good at it too, but that was a couple years ago.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:43 am

I think anyone who can manage to finish the 1st loop of a Psikyo game is very experienced on it.

And I see you've done it with Gunbird 2... so HEY HEY, you are trying to fool us, Rob!

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:44 am

What is pretty good? Keep in mind I just saw the Godhand 5 million point replay recently.

Hey man, I've got to have 1 gentle breeze of a week.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:48 am

Why, can't you stand the pressure of the Blazing Star competition?

I didn't beat my score today, but I figured out some stuff what I think it will make my score gets a lot higher, not to mention I just watched the 72mil super play, and got some tips from there.

Watch out, I'll rip your score apart.

Post by **Icarus** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:51 am

Rob wrote:Hey man, I've got to have 1 gentle breeze of a week.

You'll have to grin and bear it for a while then, as according to the first page, the next playing week is Raizing. ^_-

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:53 am

Shatterhand wrote:Why, can't you stand the pressure of the Blazing Star competition?

Not really. Sidewinder controller sucks - playing something I own on console would be a dream!

I just watched the 72mil super play, and got some tips from there.

I think these replays aren't very helpful (the one I saw anyways). Honestly my strategy looks 85% similar, and yet very minor details are doubling the score. It would take too long to finetune like that and doesn't look very exciting either.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:00 am

Rob wrote:
Shatterhand wrote: Doesn't Gunbird 2 and Dragon Blaze have lots of experienced players?
No.

Rob's right. I run the DB high-score board and follow the GB2 score board carefully and neither has gotten any serious action over the past year. They are both excellent choices for Psikyo week.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:08 am

So just forget about it, and leave just Dragon Blaze and Gunbird 2 in the poll.

Honestly, anyone thinks any other game will stand a chance?

Couldn't we change Space Bomber from your list to Sengoku Blade?

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:24 am

Sengoku Blade could be the early game. Space Bomber must stay!

Dragon Blaze and GB2 (?) are less popular than the Strikers series, so... Maybe giving two Strikers options will split the vote some.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:30 am

Rob wrote: Not really. Sidewinder controller sucks - playing something I own on console would be a dream!

Do it like me, play using the KEYBOARD.

I hope I can get my arcade stick fixed for the next week...

Edge · Post by **Edge** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:41 am

Yeah, the choice for the Raizing, Psikyo and Cave week will be tough.

I am still not sure which games to put on the poll, because if i take to famous games they will make the poll for sure. So please let all suggestions coming, I am noting them all.

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:05 am

I am still not sure which games to put on the poll

Well I already solved the Psikyo problem. I can do the others too.

Cave-
Dangun
Donpachi
Guwange
ESP Ra.De.
Progear

Raizing-
Great Mahou Daisakusen
Battle Bakraid
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen
Mahou Daisakusen
Batrider

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:34 am

Rob wrote:
I am still not sure which games to put on the poll
Well I already solved the Psikyo problem. I can do the others too.

Cave-
Dangun
Donpachi
Guwange
ESP Ra.De.
Progear

Raizing-
Great Mahou Daisakusen
Battle Bakraid
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen
Mahou Daisakusen
Batrider

Actually, I totally agree with that. These are very good choices. Please, Edge, leave out the obvious games that would win a poll without competition (like DDP or Garegga) and have lots of dedicated players by all means.

I only partly agree with Rob's Psikyo list, though. I think Strikers II shouldn't be on it (too popular). I would also like to replace Gunbird 2 for the same reasons I voted against Blazing Star: You need a lot of time to finetune your technique in those games (this isn't do-able within a week and it really makes a huge difference score-wise) and people who've been playing this for years have a huge advantage. So I suggest the shortlist for Psikyo week should look something like this:

- Sengoku Blade
- Space Bomber
- Strikers 1945 Plus
- Strikers 1999
- Dragon Blaze

Personally, I'd love to play Strikers 1999 the most, as I have absolutely no experience with it and I would like a fresh challenge.

Uridium would be an excellent choice for retro week. (Actually, Uridium 2 would be even better.) Beamrider should definitely be in retro week. (And it should better win that poll, dammit! I hereby nullify Laydock's vote against it!

)

I'd like to see Cyvern and 19XX in hidden gem week, btw.

Guts · Post by **Guts** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:46 am

When do you lunch the pool for the next week ?

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:58 am

Herr Schatten wrote:
Rob wrote:
I am still not sure which games to put on the poll
Well I already solved the Psikyo problem. I can do the others too.

Cave-
Dangun
Donpachi
Guwange
ESP Ra.De.
Progear

Raizing-
Great Mahou Daisakusen
Battle Bakraid
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen
Mahou Daisakusen
Batrider
Actually, I totally agree with that. These are very good choices. Please, Edge, leave out the obvious games that would win a poll without competition (like DDP or Garegga) and have lots of dedicated players by all means.

I only partly agree with Rob's Psikyo list, though. I think Strikers II shouldn't be on it (too popular). I would also like to replace Gunbird 2 for the same reasons I voted against Blazing Star: You need a lot of time to finetune your technique in those games (this isn't do-able within a week and it really makes a huge difference score-wise) and people who've been playing this for years have a huge advantage. So I suggest the shortlist for Psikyo week should look something like this:

- Sengoku Blade
- Space Bomber
- Strikers 1945 Plus
- Strikers 1999
- Dragon Blaze

Personally, I'd love to play Strikers 1999 the most, as I have absolutely no experience with it and I would like a fresh challenge.

Uridium would be an excellent choice for retro week. (Actually, Uridium 2 would be even better.) Beamrider should definitely be in retro week. (And it should better win that poll, dammit! I hereby nullify Laydock's vote against it! )

I'd like to see Cyvern and 19XX in hidden gem week, btw.

If you two get your way, I'll be completely out of this thing for both weeks. I own none of those game, nor do I know where to look for them. Well, I have DonPachi, but the likelyhood of it winning would be above and beyond slim.

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:11 am

batrider advanced course!!!

for cave week id like to see atleast one of their newer games as a choice?, i think there are enugh players with access to DOJ and Galuda atleast to put them up for voting?

mulletgeezer · Post by **mulletgeezer** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:45 am

i completely agree with everything Herr Schatten has said, though many people wouldn't define Uridium as a shmup so that might be a controversial choice. I don't think we should have galuda shortlisted in the cave week though, it's far too popular.

PlasmaBlooD · Post by **PlasmaBlooD** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:55 am

Cave:
Donpachi
Progear
Dangun Feveron
ESP Rade
Ibara Arranged
Guwange

Raizing:
Batrider
Battle Bakraid
Mahou Daisenkusen
Brave Blade
Great Mahou Daisakusen

no Battle Garrega

Psikyo:
Space Bomber
Sengoku Ace
Sengoku Blade
Gunbird
Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 I or II

ill6 · Post by **ill6** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:39 am

mulletgeezer wrote:i I don't think we should have galuda shortlisted in the cave week though, it's far too popular.

Although I have Blazing Star and have played it a little bit in the past the competition has really interested me in the game a lot more than I would have expected. I was playing it all wrong before... As it happens I only had 30 mins to play during this week and now I have run out of time so I am very shit at it but I am interested in playing it again more.

To your point; it would be good to play games that are not so popular/well known as I see interest in them growing. That means that when we do Cave/Raizing/Psikyo/Takumi we don't pick Galuda, Garegga, ? and MMatrix (although I really like all of those games!).

sven666 · Post by **sven666** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:13 am

mulletgeezer wrote: I don't think we should have galuda shortlisted in the cave week though, it's far too popular.

one of the reasons a competition would be interesting, instead of everyone sucking we all get a chance to shine? picking galuda for cave week could proboably produce some really kickass scores pretty much allround

the idea is to compete in games no-one has played, but since thats not possible for Cave week why not take something that everyone has played instead to even the odds?

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:29 pm

Shatterhand wrote:I actually agree with Turrican when he disagrees with me

Dropzone is a good choice, but is it old enough?

It is, considering it was originally developed for the Atari 800 (1984). It certainly belongs to retro classics.

Herr Schatten wrote:I only partly agree with Rob's Psikyo list, though. I think Strikers II shouldn't be on it (too popular). I would also like to replace Gunbird 2 for the same reasons I voted against Blazing Star: You need a lot of time to finetune your technique in those games (this isn't do-able within a week and it really makes a huge difference score-wise) and people who've been playing this for years have a huge advantage.

Quoted for great truth. If you have to choose a very difficult game, I'd say better DBlaze than Gunbird 2, at least there are less "veterans" around.

Herr Schatten wrote:Uridium would be an excellent choice for retro week. (Actually, Uridium 2 would be even better.) Beamrider should definitely be in retro week.

Yay for Beamrider! But, as long as I like it, Uridium 2's backgrounds are so detailed that the action gets confusing - I'd say the first is better.

mulletgeezer wrote:i completely agree with everything Herr Schatten has said, though many people wouldn't define Uridium as a shmup so that might be a controversial choice.

Huh? Uridium is not a controversial case. Just like Defender or Super Fantasy Zone, I don't recall anyone questioning its shmuppiness.

@everyone: guys, what did Soukyugurentai do to you? I don't see it in any Raizing list, why? It's on two home systems, on Mame, and it certainly has its degree of score tacticism...

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:14 pm

PlasmaBlooD wrote: Raizing:
Batrider
Battle Bakraid
Mahou Daisenkusen
Brave Blade
Great Mahou Daisakusen

no Battle Garrega

You need to give those of us who do not emulate something to cheer for! I can understand leaving Battle Garegga off the list, but there is no good reason to leave Souky off the list. Souky won't win, but I will be satisfied if it's on the list.

PlasmaBlooD wrote: Psikyo:
Space Bomber
Sengoku Ace
Sengoku Blade
Gunbird
Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 I or II

Leaving Dragon Blaze off the list makes absolutely no sense at all. Dragon Blaze is easily Psikyo's best game and it is very rarely played. Trust me on this-- I almost never have to update the DB hi-score board. I can't think of one good reason to leave it off.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:18 pm

i think you are all taking this far too seriously.

why don't you put *every* cave game, and *every* raizing game up for the vote...?

so some people will have an advantage... so what?

thesuperkillerxxx · Post by **thesuperkillerxxx** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:27 pm

Here's to Batrider winng the Raizing week poll! We need some "Special Power Up" love...

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:30 pm

The only reasons I'd consider not listing Space Bomber or Cyvern in the upcoming polls is that both, IIRC, were played in ramus's competitions, and people might prefer something not played competitively around here before...

As for Souky, does it play capably in MAME? It didn't used to...if games of that era are being better-emulated these days, then i'll demand Cotton 2 and Boomerang be nominated for Hidden gems week, heh heh. As it is, I'll definitely nominate Vasara and Vasara 2 for that.

Post by **Icarus** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:23 pm

jpj wrote:i think you are all taking this far too seriously.

why don't you put *every* cave game, and *every* raizing game up for the vote...? so some people will have an advantage... so what?

LOL whut?

This isn't just about playing advantage, this is about access to the game. Not everyone owns every Cave game, not everyone owns every Raizing game. Trying to sort out a good list which has wide access allows all 90+ players to compete.

Or would you rather have a playing week where less than 10 people are capable of competing due to limited access to the game?

Turrican wrote:@everyone: guys, what did Soukyugurentai do to you? I don't see it in any Raizing list, why? It's on two home systems, on Mame, and it certainly has its degree of score tacticism...

It emulates like crap in MAME. Slow as hell and full of glitches.