Italy vs Shmups.com

[Turrican]

ok but if I alter the settings can make a photo with a great score

this is only reason we want use emu and inp

want to take an example of randorama....nobody have in hands care its scores.... in italy this type of people is named of "GRANDE SPARA MINCHIATE" (great lieser in english) similar to Sirkaken (type of name dont remember a name fortunately)

ok if you dont want play with emu i announcement have make 540.000.000 to dodopanchi (lol) and make this with one eye blind

oh yeah i win! (not imp no photo...is real no? (hope you catch my joke))

How dare you slander me. Just because I am capable of greater scores than some people, and I don`t have an input file to go along with it, I must be lying? I`ve read (babelfish translation from italian to english) on some of your italian forums about some of you talking about two of my scores (DDP and Progear) and some people wondering how I got the scores. I recall one person saying something like "why don`t you ask him?" Never have I been PMed, or e-mailed, or anything about anyone asking me for advice, tips, or what I did to LEGITIMATELY achieve my scores. I played many hours to achieve all my scores, and I when I do sit down with a game I take it very seriously for the time I spend on it.

it must be mame-dictatorship. Without an input file they won't trust noone. I'm not really sure that this (mame becoming de facto a standard for competitions) is a good thing...

[freddiebamboo]

If it's going to be like this, make it games like DOJ with a photo of the code on the high score screen.

Much easier than recording inputs in wolfmame.

EDIT: Or trust people, these things are supposed to be fun

[Rob]

540.000.000 to dodopanchi (lol)

Plain rude.

[sikraiken]

540.000.000 to dodopanchi (lol)

Plain rude.

Neverland, like I said, this score came from very hard work, time, and dedication to the game. I don`t care if you don`t believe me, it doesn`t change the fact that the score is real and legitimate, just like the other scores I have produced. Maybe one day if I make time to get back into some of the games I will make even greater scores, and maybe I`ll make INPs if I feel like it. Whenever that happens, maybe I`ll give the INPs to only a few people and I`ll ask them to never show you them, because you think I am a liar, alright?

[Turrican]

EDIT: Or trust people, these things are supposed to be fun

Well, it's no fun to be beaten by a guy who invents his score, they have a point. Moreover, it's understandable to be cautious since they had bad experiences before.

I'm still of the idea that a capture/vhs video is the safest - you can press "rec" on camera, then turn on your cab, go to setting screen to prove everything it's default, then play until the end. A video of this kind cannot be easily altered.

I agree with them that an input mame file is at least more solid proof than a photo of the hiscore - and more fun too, since everyone can see how a gamer plays.

[Rob]

Liar! It's only 530 million!

I will cease adding fuel to the fire... now.

[Edge]

Well I wanted to state my opinion about the score proofing. But Turrican already wrote exactly what I think so I'll just quote him again:

Well, it's no fun to be beaten by a guy who invents his score, they have a point. Moreover, it's understandable to be cautious since they had bad experiences before.

I'm still of the idea that a capture/vhs video is the safest - you can press "rec" on camera, then turn on your cab, go to setting screen to prove everything it's default, then play until the end. A video of this kind cannot be easily altered.

I agree with them that an input mame file is at least more solid proof than a photo of the hiscore - and more fun too, since everyone can see how a gamer plays.

So, would AVIs be accepted?

How and where we upload them would be our problem. But I think those AVIs should proof the legitimation of a score.

[Jck]

Whenever that happens, maybe I`ll give the INPs to only a few people and I`ll ask them to never show you them, because you think I am a liar, alright?

Deja vu! I heard this EXACT sentece in another discussion (about Mushihime sama) and from another player... Maybe LUN or NEV can remember who I'm talking about. Useless to say, that time no one has been able to watch the video...

[DEL]

Just a thought, but if you compete on a Well Crafted game like Border Down, you won't have photo proof problems (unless you actually doctor the photo). What I mean is; Border Down won't allow you to score much on easy skill level, because its all about 'Breaking' loads of enemies, lasers & bullets, which don't come on easy skill level. Only on Normal or Hard can you score anything worthwhile. Plus the 'Border System' won't allow extra lives to be set of course! - In short, Border Down is perfectly crafted for photo submission scores that can be trusted.

Unfortunately, many other titles can be abused with skill level setting and lives. - In which case I would have to agree with the AES Team.

.

Couldn't resist

[Icarus]

Grrrr... you people make me jealous. ^_-

[The Coop]

So all this is arcade only? No one could grab M.U.S.H.A., Space MegaForce or Sagaia and play them for high scores? Hell, games like that would be easier to find for everyone, especially since there are emulators that can mimic them with 95% accuracy these days.


And all this talk about distrust. It's amazing how fast this went from a fun-filled competition, to an accusation-filled rant. Yes, some folks lie about their scores, but that doesn't mean every great score is bullshit until proven with closely inspected video by hired third party analysts either. It's rather sad that people have gotten so distrustful of one another over something as silly as high scores, and seem to be getting close to asking participants for written and signed statements by at least thirty different eye witnesses.

This isn't the Guinness Book of World Records folks, and there isn't a $25,000 prize at the end. Lighten up a little.

[Rob]

Playing Compile games for score: true lol. Agree with the rest of the post, though.

[Smraedis]

Sagaia is actually on MAME, as Darius II.. I've played the whole Darius series way too much, and there isn't much you can do with improving score on Darius II, so its not really a good competition game, if someone can already finish it.

[The Coop]

Sagaia is actually on MAME, as Darius II.. I've played the whole Darius series way too much, and there isn't much you can do with improving score on Darius II, so its not really a good competition game, if someone can already finish it.

I know, but it's also on the Genesis, Master System and GameBoy (albeit in a new form). My point though, was that Genesis and SNES ROMs are everywhere, and their emulation is damn near spot on (with occasional ROMs that aren't quite up to snuff... like Panorama Cotton). Plus, if your PC can't run something like Gens, then you needed to upgrade about ten years ago

And to address your comment about playing it way too much, and I honestly don't mean this as a smart ass, but... so? Look at games like DoDonpachi, Border Down, Mars Matrix and whatnot. How many folks here have played those games until they damn near dream about the enemy patterns? Plus, being able to finish the game is one thing. Being able to get as much of a score as possible is another. Hell, I have shmups I can beat easily, but my scores in them suck

[DEL]

The Coop wrote;

This isn't the Guinness Book of World Records folks, and there isn't a $25,000 prize at the end. Lighten up a little.

= True but I can see it from the AES Team's point of view. ie. If someone sweats blood and tears and several months getting a 1LC 65mil on Mush Original, then Stahlfeder bumbles in with a bogus 68mil WR, you're gonna get pissed off!

By the way Coop, judging from your 1CC list you're a damn fine player - are you on the Shmups Team list?

[Neverland]

sik
for me any score without a real inp or a video for one GREAT SCORE type your is a fake.

im SURE there are in this board MANY MANY great honest players but
without a inp or photo i dont trust nobody (when talk to score type your)

when you will show me your inp I will make excuses myself public...

for the rest we dont have any solutions other use a wolfmame
for the rest of O.T discussion i propose to open another theard

[Smraedis]

And to address your comment about playing it way too much, and I honestly don't mean this as a smart ass, but... so? Look at games like DoDonpachi, Border Down, Mars Matrix and whatnot. How many folks here have played those games until they damn near dream about the enemy patterns? Plus, being able to finish the game is one thing. Being able to get as much of a score as possible is another. Hell, I have shmups I can beat easily, but my scores in them suck

I'm not really bragging or anything, though I mean that there isn't many scoring elements in the game, so if really great players would play it, there wouldn't be much difference in the scores.

..maybe I just think the game is a bit easy, but if it is used in some compo, it could be alright, we'll find that out if its ever used in one.

Games like DoDonPachi and other modern shooters are good for scoring competitions, since you can beat the first loop with a score of 30 million, or you could beat the loop with 200+m, depending on how well you play.

[Icarus]

= True but I can see it from the AES Team's point of view. ie. If someone sweats blood and tears and several months getting a 1LC 65mil on Mush Original, then Stahlfeder bumbles in with a bogus 68mil WR, you're gonna get pissed off!

Speaking of Stahlfeder, doesn't the public 'outing' of his bogusness a while back invalidate most of his other scores in some way? It might give me incentive to come back to Espgaluda and claim the Tateha table as my own. (Hahaha!) ^_-

for me any score without a real inp or a video for one GREAT SCORE type your is a fake.

I'd love to know what you guys would say about my scores had I not endeavoured to always provide some kind of proof of score. And turning your comment around, what about that 65mil Mushi Original Mode score of yours? How do we know you didn't use an Action Replay to assist your No-Miss ALL? REPLAY OR GTFO!

Its not nice to be accused or to accuse of cheating or faking scores, especially when particular players are known to be highly skilled. Give people the benefit of the doubt and be more trusting. -_-;;

[BR1]

sik
for me any score without a real inp or a video for one GREAT SCORE type your is a fake.

im SURE there are in this board MANY MANY great honest players but
without a inp or photo i dont trust nobody (when talk to score type your)

when you will show me your inp I will make excuses myself public...

for the rest we dont have any solutions other use a wolfmame
for the rest of O.T discussion i propose to open another theard

Quote everything.

And if somebody still wanna ask why WolfMAME


That's why:

[sikraiken]

sik
for me any score without a real inp or a video for one GREAT SCORE type your is a fake.

im SURE there are in this board MANY MANY great honest players but
without a inp or photo i dont trust nobody (when talk to score type your)

when you will show me your inp I will make excuses myself public...

for the rest we dont have any solutions other use a wolfmame
for the rest of O.T discussion i propose to open another theard

That`s fine if you don`t believe scores without an INP or a video, but you don`t have to pinpoint me. You especially don`t have to call me a "GRANDE SPARA MINCHIATE". I find that very disrespectful (especially since it isn`t true ).

[BR1]

I'd love to know what you guys would say about my scores had I not endeavoured to always provide some kind of proof of score. And turning your comment around, what about that 65mil Mushi Original Mode score of yours? How do we know you didn't use an Action Replay to assist your No-Miss ALL? REPLAY OR GTFO!

He has the code from the PCB

Orignal Arcade Mushi's have the code (as DOJ) for the arcade ranking

[howmuchkeefe]

I begin to see how some people can hate liars more than they do robbers, or even some killers. It would have been nice for those who can't use MAME to participate in the contest.

...if there's to be a contest. Things are pretty hot in here.

[Icarus]

He has the code from the PCB

Orignal Arcade Mushi's have the code (as DOJ) for the arcade ranking

So post them!
The screenshot that was provided looks like it was from the PS2 version. ^_-
You see what I'm getting at here? ^_-

[BR1]

I begin to see how some people can hate liars more than they do robbers, or even some killers.

Just change your point of view: If we hate liars like that, can you image what we feel about robbers and killers?

It would have been nice for those who can't use MAME to participate in the contest.

It would be definitely nice, but as you can see it's not that easy.

...if there's to be a contest. Things are pretty hot in here.

Things are hot but I think it was necessary we discussed about these arguments. And I hope that this night (Here in Italy it's 2.20 a.m. ) we could finally explain our thoughts and behaviour about the world of arcade records.

A wise man once said:

If you're an honest player it doesn't mean you're an honest man.
If you're a dishonest player surely you're a dishonest man.
Or something like that!

[The Coop]

The Coop wrote;

This isn't the Guinness Book of World Records folks, and there isn't a $25,000 prize at the end. Lighten up a little.

= True but I can see it from the AES Team's point of view. ie. If someone sweats blood and tears and several months getting a 1LC 65mil on Mush Original, then Stahlfeder bumbles in with a bogus 68mil WR, you're gonna get pissed off!

By the way Coop, judging from your 1CC list you're a damn fine player - are you on the Shmups Team list?

Nope. Most of the stuff I play is on a home console. I own no PCB boards, and MAME is rarely used (except for a few oddball games like Thunder Blade and R-Type Leo). Quite a few of the games I've seen talked about and participated in the most within the Shmups Chat and Hi Score forums, I either don't own (all Japanese/European PS2, and actual PCB board stuff), or I've only recently gotten to start playing (like DonPachi for the Saturn). As such, I'd likely be the weak link on the team, especially for arcade/MAME-only stuff Couple that with a painfully slow upload (1KB/s) that makes sending videos of any kind nearly impossible, and I'm basically locked out of this.

But I do appreciate the sentiment though



Believe me folks, I can understand some of the cynicism here. But know that not everyone's a liar and out to prove they're the "BESTEST EVAR!" at any cost. I've played the living hell out of games like Thunder Force IV, Power Strike II, Thunder Force II and Arrow Flash, and that's how I got my scores for them in the Hi Score forum. I realize all I have is my word, but I really don't know what to tell anyone if that isn't enough for them, except those scores are quite real, and I stand by them.

**waits for scathing reply**




Oh. While I wait, could someone tell me what an inp is?

[system11]

Sagaia is actually on MAME, as Darius II.. I've played the whole Darius series way too much, and there isn't much you can do with improving score on Darius II, so its not really a good competition game, if someone can already finish it.

I submitted Sagaia roms to them about 2 years ago. I even maintained a patch for the MAME source to put them in. Pointless. There's a version with different levels too.

[sikraiken]

Oh. While I wait, could someone tell me what an inp is?

An INP is an input file for MAME. MAME can make a record of your inputs (from your joystick/keyboard/whatever) while you play a game and output this file as a result. You play it back in MAME much like a video.

[LUNardei]

You see what I'm getting at here? ^_-

Yes, everything can be questionable if we think that way. In the specific case, look at the internet ranking of the game to see where Nev is
And about you... I guess everyone can trust you for several reasons!

But yes, no offense to anyone but a score like Sik's one (it's damn, damn, damn HUGE guys) without any kind of tangible proof is questionable from here to eternity. Period.

BTW, calm down everybody. There was a contest here. Try to rethink things in this way (probably the one they intended): they (italian "childish" team) launched a mame challenge to you. Accept or decline is your decision, since they started with this thing of .inp required.

Of course I'd like you to accept ^_^

[howmuchkeefe]

It would be definitely nice, but as you can see it's not that easy.

I understand. Liars exist, hence the need for verification.

If you're an honest player it doesn't mean you're an honest man.
If you're a dishonest player surely you're a dishonest man.

Nice. I will remember that.

[Smraedis]

I submitted Sagaia roms to them about 2 years ago. I even maintained a patch for the MAME source to put them in. Pointless. There's a version with different levels too.

oh yeah, I remember you saying that back then too.

Isn't the version with different levels an Extra version? I don't understand why they haven't added it to MAME too, since it has Darius Extra, Darius Gaiden Extra and G Darius ver 2.