Quick Ico/Colossus Question...

[Benjamin]

It's the atmosphere that makes Colossus an incredible game. Throughout playing it I just couldn't shake off the feeling that by slaying these creatures I was committing a terrible evil, and that I was damaging the landscape and the main character forever.

It's rare that a game presents a "hero" with such a selfish and desperate objective, one that makes you question your very actions within the game. Genius I say! And definately fun.

Well, it's a great concept, sure, but the idea doesn't sell me on the gameplay or lack thereof. For what's about an eight or so hour game, you spend maybe six of that just wandering around traveling about the map. Too many of them go down similarly, too, to give the game a "been there done that" quality after the first encounter. The scope of the game doesn't awe throughout, and the wrinkle here and there to board the colussi to defeat them neither takes long or is involving enough to feel challenging or interesting, at least enough to sustain repeated playthroughs or warrant all the time it takes just getting to them. I think it suffers the same way Shenmue does -- too much focus on theme and presentation at the sake of fun and interesting gameplay. Still definitely worth the Play Asia price, though, at least as a lengthy "rental."

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

^ What he said. Plus, it's drab and uninteresting. The "majestic" scenery gets boring after 5 minutes when you notice they use five different textures for the whole game. It doesn't help either that they're all brownish. It is as if they wanted to make the game black and white.

[Twiddle]

SotC was the worst $50 I have ever spent this year.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

$50? I see you must be in Europe. I paid $37 for it. It was still a rip-off though. Thank gosh I sold it before it dropped in price.

[Twiddle]

I bought it in March.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

Where did you buy it? Some Gamestop and EB stores tend to sell games above the MSRP. The game had a MSRP of $40. I got mine new from an awesome mum and pop shop that charges no taxes and usually sell games below the MSRP.

[Twiddle]

Fry's. We don't have mom-pop shops that sell games or the like around here.

[GaijinPunch]

Wow... I don't see how anyone can hate these games, especially at a forum which is devoted to games with simplistic gameplay.

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

I don't hate 'em; I just don't like 'em. It's probably the lack of adrenaline to keep me awake while playing.

[BulletMagnet]

In case anyone's interested, the games arrived the other day, figured I might as well post a couple of (very) early impressions...

Ico I've only gotten a couple of rooms into, took me two tries to figure out how to save, heh heh. The castle atmosphere is very nice, though the fact that you can't turn off the rumble feature is annoying, especially considering you have to drag the gal with you everywhere and it rumbles the whole time. Control and camera are a bit finicky, but at least early on it's nothing game-breaking. Need to play some more...

Colossus I've gotten a bit farther into, taken down 3 Colossi so far. Graphics are a mixed bag: some textures and such look really cheesy, while other things are really nice: the giants themselves, thankfully, are really incredible. So far not too challenging, took down the first few critters on my first try, though some took me awhile to figure out: control and camera feel similar to Ico, though I find riding the horse particularly cumbersome (Zelda: OoT did it better years ago). Haven't done much exploring yet, just kind of following the sequence...the "tutorials" on the way to the first Colossus are nice to help you get acquainted with how things work, and the options are better (adios rumble).

All in all, neither strikes me as "best game ever" material, though I'm already pretty impressed by the scenery. As I said, though, I'm still only a short ways into each.

[PFG 9000]

I'm surprised there are so many here who hate SotC so much. It's not a perfect game, but to me, it's easily the finest of 2005, and one of the best games ever created. From the opening movie to the credits, it's breathtaking in both gameplay and its majestic art direction. I understand the high art content makes it a game that isn't for everyone, but I would think the thrill of riding around hundreds of feet above the ground, hanging on for dear life as you try to slay this gigantic creature would be enough to hook anyone. I have yet to introduce it to somebody who wasn't blown away, both gamers and non-gamers alike.

[GaijinPunch]

All in all, neither strikes me as "best game ever" material, though I'm already pretty impressed by the scenery.

FYI, Okami gets my "game of the year" so far this year, while we're on the topic of PS2 games that are the complet opposite of shooting. Easy as balls, but beautiful.

[BulletMagnet]

Is that one that's as "import friendly" as either of the thread-centric titles, or does it require decent knowledge of Japanese to be playable? I've heard you singing its praises for a bit now...

[GaijinPunch]

Requires a pretty high level of Japanese to actually enjoy the story (old Japanese -- hard to follow at times) but a moderate level and you can get by. I think the US version comes out next month though. Pick it up. Soundtrack is gorgeous.

I liked it enough to write this. All in all, it is pretty much a Zelda clone, but it's the style and ambiance that's the gem, and is what I wish other games would mimic (but don't).

[BulletMagnet]

Hmm, so it's coming Stateside...maybe once I eventually get around to picking up a US PS2 I'll give it a try.

[neorichieb1971]

People on here like games that are hard as nails.

What I like about Ico and SoTC is that

a) no powering up, or not much emphasis on it
b) no collectathons
c) no instant deaths, or lack of time to figure out things
d) no timers


The only game I liked as much as these was God Of War and RE4.


If you like Ico and SoTC you might like the above and the Prince of Persia games.

[Benjamin]

What I like about Ico and SoTC is that

a) no powering up, or not much emphasis on it
b) no collectathons
c) no instant deaths, or lack of time to figure out things
d) no timers

Shadow of the Colossus has power-ups, though as bonuses and not part of the main game (just nitpicking). It does have a collectathon option in the main game, though it's hardly necessary. There are no timers because then players would get a sense of just how much time they are wasting wandering around looking for gameplay in the game, much like a casino or doctor's office.

I don't hate the game, but the pretty visuals don't overcome a shallow game. Whereas Ico is both beautiful and interesting throughout, SotC is boring save for a few scant scenes that are over all too quick. Much like Shenmue and Rez, gameplay takes a backseat to the visuals, too much for my taste.

There are some pretty impressive videoes available on YouTube, and unfortunately, if you watch all 16 fights, you can witness everything the game has to offer in about 20 minutes or so. Imagine a shooter where you had to fly through enemy free levels for 15-30 minutes or so before arriving at a simplistic boss. That's Shadow of the Colossus. You wouldn't tolerate that in a shmup. What makes this so different?

[GaijinPunch]

THAT'St the point. It's beauty is in the fact that it's a "shallow" game. The current generation of gamers need all sorts of bells, whistles, and bullshit to hold their attention. Collosus gets down to the bare minimum of a game, and pulls it off. The only problem with it is there aren't more games like it.

[howmuchkeefe]

I hope for a PC release of Shadow of the Colossus. The game would look so damn good at 60+ FPS, and higher resolutions wouldn't hurt a bit.

[sethsez]

Fantasia sucked, the plot was so shallow.

In case that wasn't obvious enough, "the game is simple and you spend most of your time traveling" is not a sign of cut corners or filler space because that is the entire point of the game. Traveling across a massive expanse of land, exploring just for the hell of it even though there's really nothing to find, that's all part of what makes the game what it is. The traveling builds up the battles, and the battles themselves are massive punctuation marks on your (otherwise mostly serene) journies. If your goal is to just beat the game and see all the "gameplay" then you're missing the point and SotC probably isn't for you. Frankly, I think it's nice to have a game that's more about being evocative and thematically coherent than being centered entirely on gameplay mechanics with everything else taking a back seat. If I want something like that, there are roughly a million other games vying for my attention with that very focus.

And we wouldn't tolerate the same thing from a shmup because shmups have completely different rules and aspire to completely different things. I wouldn't want an RPG as short as a shmup or a shmup as long as an RPG, but that's not really a valid comparison either way.

[neorichieb1971]

If you look at the substance of most 3D games. Its mostly collecting, powering up and back tracking.

And the graphics and control are the only thing which changes. In the 2 concerned games, we have an extra sense of attachment to the world itself and the characters. You sense bravery and weakness.

[sethsez]

If you look at the substance of most 3D games. Its mostly collecting, powering up and back tracking.

And the graphics and control are the only thing which changes.

First, that should read "3D action games" because I don't recall doing much of that in Wipeout or Virtua Fighter 4. Come to think of it, I don't recall doing much of that in most FPS either.

Second, it's incredibly easy to generalize to such a degree that everything sounds the same. Similar complaints could be lobbed at 2D games, but it wouldn't be remotely reasonable. Yes, Psychonauts and Morrowind both have collecting, powering up and exploration, but they're not remotely similar.

[Marc]

Fantasia sucked, the plot was so shallow.

In case that wasn't obvious enough, "the game is simple and you spend most of your time traveling" is not a sign of cut corners or filler space because that is the entire point of the game. Traveling across a massive expanse of land, exploring just for the hell of it even though there's really nothing to find, that's all part of what makes the game what it is. The traveling builds up the battles, and the battles themselves are massive punctuation marks on your (otherwise mostly serene) journies. If your goal is to just beat the game and see all the "gameplay" then you're missing the point and SotC probably isn't for you. Frankly, I think it's nice to have a game that's more about being evocative and thematically coherent than being centered entirely on gameplay mechanics with everything else taking a back seat. If I want something like that, there are roughly a million other games vying for my attention with that very focus.

And we wouldn't tolerate the same thing from a shmup because shmups have completely different rules and aspire to completely different things. I wouldn't want an RPG as short as a shmup or a shmup as long as an RPG, but that's not really a valid comparison either way.

I couldn't agree more. SoTC offers something different and should be applauded for that alone. I'm utterly taken aback by the emotional resonance I feel for this game, and it's all the more incredible because it's been engineered with nothing more than the boy, the horse, and the fantastic landscape; without the aid of cut-scenes, voice-overs, or licenced soundtracks. There's a real wieght to the action, it just feels very sober, sombre and dark. I'm only up to the fourth Collosi at the minute, but standing atop the third waiting to plunge my sword into it's head (and feeling reall, horribly, guilty as I did so) was one of my best gaming experiences in a long time. My own take is that it will never be everyone's cup of tea, because to enjoy fully it also asks that you put something back in. This isn't background music, it needs your full and undivided attention to be enjoyed properly. It feels like adult gaming to me, and while I wouldn't want my gaimng diet to consist solely of SotC, it would be a hell of a lot poorer for never having encountered it.

That is all.

*Gets off soapbox*

[neorichieb1971]

Well said.

[undamned]

I need to pick this up...
-ud

[Twiddle]

I felt SOTC was a bit shit because it didn't have the nice stressful trial and error play that Ico (and by extension, Another/Out of this World) did. Your task was pretty much a pushover. It was roam landscape for 30 minutes, kick dog, roam landscape for 40 minutes, videogame equivalent of kicking a dog, roam landscape for 15 minutes, kick dog, repeat until twist ending. This would be great if it was a movie but I was trying to play a game. If you want to show me a great atmosphere, please put in at least a single part that picks at my brain a bit. I'm not opposed to games being art, but how it's done here is like the videogame equivalent of a movie frozen in place for one scene for the entire duration.

[Zebra Airforce]

I felt SOTC was a bit shit because it didn't have the nice stressful trial and error play that Ico (and by extension, Another/Out of this World) did. Your task was pretty much a pushover. It was roam landscape for 30 minutes, kick dog, roam landscape for 40 minutes, kick dog, roam landscape for 15 minutes, kick dog. This would be great if it was a movie but I was trying to play a game.

Don't you get it? Those moments roaming the land are symbolic of how Wanda (I refuse to call him by his bastardized blood-rape name) must search his own soul for answers to the eternal question of man vs technology, in this case manifested in the tribe's new agriocultural system that is alluded to in the intro when played backwards, so experiencing those parts of the game are what bring the player into Wanda's state of mind and allow the player to enter an emotive state beyond what is comrehensible in the system of authoritative oppression so fondly endorsed in the west, and are the true meat of the game.

[kengou]

SOTC is my favorite PS2 game of all time, just an incredible experience. It's true art in gaming form.

I'm playing through Ico right now. Nowhere near as good, but it has its moments and it's definitely not bad. That girl has to die though, I hate her. And all the parts where shadow creatures attack, they just aren't fun. There's more annoying things in the game than anything else.

[Twiddle]

Don't you get it? Those moments roaming the land are symbolic of how Wanda (I refuse to call him by his bastardized blood-rape name) must search his own soul for answers to the eternal question of man vs technology, in this case manifested in the tribe's new agriocultural system that is alluded to in the intro when played backwards, so experiencing those parts of the game are what bring the player into Wanda's state of mind and allow the player to enter an emotive state beyond what is comrehensible in the system of authoritative oppression so fondly endorsed in the west, and are the true meat of the game.

[Rob]

Kids need to be shootin' things.