Almost OT but I don't think so - next gen and shmups

No_not_like_Quake · Post by **No_not_like_Quake** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:44 am

You all know the next gen systems are about to be in the spotlight. Yes their main focus will be 3D gaming... but you know what? The way I see it, it opens the door for some excellent 2.5D shmup action too. Fuck games like Gradius 5 are nice, but they can be made even nicer with the new gen. Ultimately, gameplay matters the most, but I see a great future for 2D playing shmups on the forthcoming consoles. My point? Do not fear, shmups are here to stay IMO. AGree? Disagree? Shout out what you think in this thread.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:53 am

i sure hope so. I think games aren't going to change much. it's still gonna be GTA and zelda but with better graphics.

The developers just need to keep it up. We know what good games are. keep making em

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:22 am

I may be going off on a tangent, but you ever wonder what the average age of shmup players is..?
We're getting old, and there aren't very many young'uns coming in to replace us and keep the demand up.

I guess you could also argue that the absolute numbers of shmup players hasn't increased or decreased much in the last decade or two, but the sheer number of gamers altogether has ballooned, and has caused our percentage of the market to decrease drastically...

Other than buying the few games which are released from time to time, I don't know if there's much else we can do to keep them coming... hardly anybody I know (who doesn't already play shmups) is even willing to try playing anything that isn't 3D with full freedom of exploration...

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:07 am

Yeah, good point. Kids are a major factor in the gaming business. I'm 20, and I think a lot of you are older than I am.

They should make a shmup as a launch title. Maybe everyone would see how cool it is and everyone else would follow suit.

Yeah right.

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:27 am

A shmup as a launch title eh..?
_I_ think it's a great idea, but it's one that definitely would NOT go over well with the higher-ups, since it's probably not the greatest genre to use for showcasing the graphical and gameplay capabilities of a new system...
While having a shmup at launch might be a good way to get people to at least notice it, it's risky if the game turns out to be mediocre. Many people already laugh at shmups... it's going to take something like the quality of Gradius V to convince them that some shmups are still worth playing..

Although DS has been launched for a while, I'll use it as an example since the library is still thin enough that most of anything that gets announced is noticed. Nanostray has caused a bit of a stir among the general DS population (even though as a shmup I don't think it looks like it will play that great - nonetheless I'll be buying any shmup I can for DS) but Super Space Invaders DS has been ridiculed any time it was mentioned...
Anyway, let's hope that Nanostray will blow us all away and we'll have some new shmup converts (like what Ikaruga did to me) :)

And to stay on topic, I hope the next-gen gets more shmups too!... although I'm still catching up on....2 gens ago :p

Nei First · Post by **Nei First** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:19 am

I actually think the future success of Shmups rest on the handhelds now, and this is coming from someone who rarely plays handhelds.
Only now can we imagine having arcade perfect handheld ports for quality games as old as Gradius III.

Before then they were always a stepdown in quality, even the GBA couldn't do a perfect port of Metal slug (although it was good enough).

Now look at the PSP, it handled Vampire Chronicles like a charm (A quality the Saturn could only achieve with the extra ram cart). Imagine having good quality Shmups like that on a handheld. The public would be alot more forgiving with Shmups, since expectations are lowered with handhelds.

It would be nice though, to have more shmups for the next gen ( I'm still waiting to see at least one horizontal shmup, with a HUGE amount of animated events going on in the background, while your busy blasting away enemies, with NO SLOWDOWN).

Wishful thinking maybe.

zimeon · Post by **zimeon** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 11:39 am

Being no fan och handhelds, I hope some good shmups are ported to the home systems too...

Ganelon · Post by **Ganelon** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:53 pm

iatneH wrote:A shmup as a launch title eh..?
_I_ think it's a great idea, but it's one that definitely would NOT go over well with the higher-ups, since it's probably not the greatest genre to use for showcasing the graphical and gameplay capabilities of a new system...

Actually, you never know, at least not with Nintendo. Remember that one of their 3 launch titles for the N64 was a mahjong game that hardly showcased the N64's technological prowess.

Anyway, I don't know about the next gen consoles. There's interested developers but only Taito is there to publish shooters to the consoles (sans the occasional Gradius from Konami or Psyvariar from Success). Wouldn't mind if Arika and Cave made up and got back in the fold...

Post by **Dave_K.** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 4:58 pm

iatneH wrote:A shmup as a launch title eh..?
_I_ think it's a great idea, but it's one that definitely would NOT go over well with the higher-ups, since it's probably not the greatest genre to use for showcasing the graphical and gameplay capabilities of a new system...

Silpheed was supposed to be a PS2 launch title (I had it in by bundle pre-order). Of course it had several delays before it finally came out, and is not one of treasures best accomplishments as we all know.

FRO · Post by **FRO** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:05 pm

BUHA wrote:Yeah, good point. Kids are a major factor in the gaming business. I'm 20, and I think a lot of you are older than I am.

They should make a shmup as a launch title. Maybe everyone would see how cool it is and everyone else would follow suit.

Yeah right.

Sol-Feace came bundled with many Sega CD units back in the day. Unfortunately, that was NOT a great example of what a good shmup is on a new console. If a really high quality shmup came out as a launch title or even a pack-in game (we can hope, right?) it might be enough to keep the shmup community alive, if not flourishing. That was one of the principal mistakes of NEC w/ the TurboGrafx - some of the better games in its library were shmups - why couldn't Blazing Lazers have been the pack-in?

iatneH · Post by **iatneH** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:06 pm

Yeah FRO, I was thinking exactly of Sol-Feace too but for some reason didn't mention it...

Tony Gradius · Post by **Tony Gradius** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 7:17 pm

As long as there is a japanese hardware, there will be shmups too. Hell, even the 3d-wonder PS2 hat Gradius III&IV Fukkatsu right after the hardware launch. And for the handhelds, I think the PSP is ten steps in the right direction for shmups. Not only it has very powerful hardware, but also a screen which seems to be big enough to show some of the more bullet intensive shmups.

Shmups are far away from a major genre but shrinked to a quite healthy more-than-just-underground-genre since the days of the mid-nineties.

dboeren · Post by **dboeren** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:28 pm

I wouldn't mind a handheld with a lot of good shmup titles. It would be pretty nice for trips, as long as the battery life was decent.

What I'd really want is more like a dedicated MAME handheld that could run lots of classic games where you can tilt the handheld vertical or horizontal and it would know which way the control pad/stick should be oriented based on that. Then you can play old shmups AND other classics like Donkey Kong, Ms. Pacman, etc...

Frogacuda · Post by **Frogacuda** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:33 pm

shmups have always been about the arcade market. Console geerations have little bearing on them.

EvilAkito · Post by **EvilAkito** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:38 pm

I hate to say this, but I have trouble believing that there is really going to be much room for console shmups in the next generation. 2-D was on its last leg with the GBA, but now that handhelds are going 3-D as well, 2-D is quickly fading away. Perhaps there will still be plenty of shmups in Japanese arcades, as well as maybe some PC ports and fanmade PC shmups, but I don't think we'll see many (if any) shmups on the newer consoles.

I just hope to God that I'm wrong.

BUHA · Post by **BUHA** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 9:46 pm

yeah, worst possible scenario would be homemade PC shmups, which still has a lot of promise if you ask me.

raiden · Post by **raiden** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 10:14 pm

What I'd really want is more like a dedicated MAME handheld that could run lots of classic games where you can tilt the handheld vertical or horizontal and it would know which way the control pad/stick should be oriented based on that. Then you can play old shmups AND other classics like Donkey Kong, Ms. Pacman, etc..

I´ve read some speculation about the PSP being open to indie developers after certain hacks have been performed. You could then save games to the memory stick and run them from there. Emulation was specificially mentioned as one option that would be possible, and the hardware seems to be strong enough.
I think the GP32 is already somehow able in that respect.