Which system has the best shooters?

ROBOTRON · Post by **ROBOTRON** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:27 am

Saturn
Genesis
DC
NES
Neo-Geo
TG16
Import PS2
SNES

Post by **system11** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:45 am

Super Laydock wrote:
bloodflowers wrote:The Dreamcast doesn't have enough titles to stand on the same level as the Saturn and PS2.
Well he did ask what system has the best shooters and not about which system has the most...

And there are no real flukes in the DC shmups library, and what's great is really great!

3 great games vs 10+ great games on the other systems would kind of put it in third place too. I'd currently place the systems like this: PS2, Saturn, DC. Saturn used to be ahead of PS2 in my estimation, but that all changed from DOJ/ESPgaluda onwards.

professor ganson · Post by **professor ganson** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 1:53 am

bloodflowers wrote:[ I'd currently place the systems like this: PS2, Saturn, DC.

Same here, if PS2 includes PS1. If not:
PS1 and Saturn (tied for first)
PS2 and DC (tied for second)

But I think I'm unusual in ranking things this way. Probably many here would prefer:
PS2 and Saturn (tied for first)
PS1 and DC (tied for second)

Post by **system11** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:02 am

Thing that does it for me is the unholy alliance of great games the PS2 managed to pick up in recent years. Just consider: DDP DOJ, Espgaluda, Gradius V, Dragon Blaze - that's already hard to beat. Then consider other good titles like Mushihimesama, Ibara, R-Type Final, the Sengoku Ace/Blade set, Homura, Raiden 3. Then consider some of the PS1 games you can also play on a PS2 - Einhander, Gradius Gaiden, DDP. Then consider the Taito collections - containing among other things the best version of G-Darius.

It's going to be hard at this point in time, for another system to better the PS2 now, or perhaps ever as the genre continues to shrink.

Of course, a JAMMA cab trumps them all in an instant

elvis · Post by **elvis** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:13 am

Super Laydock wrote: 3. PC-Engine (DUO)

Fingers crossed we see some good PCE and Duo shmups hitting Wii's virtual console! I've got mine pre-ordered.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:09 am

bloodflowers wrote:
3 great games vs 10+ great games on the other systems would kind of put it in third place too. I'd currently place the systems like this: PS2, Saturn, DC. Saturn used to be ahead of PS2 in my estimation, but that all changed from DOJ/ESPgaluda onwards.

Whew! Good thing the DC's got way more than 3 good shooters then!

Think you're confusing it with the SNES...?

neorichieb1971 · Post by **neorichieb1971** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:01 am

Import ps2 has the best shmups, in quality and quantity. Nothing else comes close.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:06 am

Rob wrote:
Ceph wrote: Trying to start an internet rumor, eh? Battle Bakraid has not been ported. There surely is no Saturn version.
My Bakraid with spinecard says differently. Shows what you know.

And as for the topic: SNES!

In that case my vote goes to N64.

louisg · Post by **louisg** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:12 am

Ceph wrote: In that case my vote goes to N64.

Hey, it's got that Star Soldier sequel...

Kron · Post by **Kron** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:46 am

If you're not a Cave fan the PS2 shmup list isn't anywhere near as good as many people on here would lead you to believe.

If quality of conversion was a high factor for many people here then the PS2 wouldn't be hold in such high regard. Its very much quantity over quality where many people here choose a game based on its low price.

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:45 pm

Most PS2 shmup conversions aren't bad, at least in my experience...Mushi, Ibara and the Psikyo collections were mediocre/okay and GWG and Radirgy were subpar/poor, but most everything else I can think of was good to excellent, at least in terms of port quality.

jp · Post by jp » Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:11 pm

Kron wrote:If you're not a Cave fan the PS2 shmup list isn't anywhere near as good as many people on here would lead you to believe.

Cave or Psikyo rather. But yes, I agree.

LSU · Post by **LSU** » Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:33 pm

J-Manic wrote:If I had to spend the rest of my life on an island, with only one console to shmup on for rest of my life, it would be the Sega Saturn..

Ditto for me. My Dreamcast would be a close second, and my PS2 the third choice.

(My PS2 is actually broken right now, and it's been that way for over a month. Surprisingly, although I will get it fixed or replaced soon, I haven't felt the need to rush into it... Whereas I couldn't even think about the possibility of being without my Saturn or Dreamcast for that long.)

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:15 am

FrederikJurk wrote:First: Check the xenocide files for arcade games, then go to
http://www.mameworld.net/maws/

Oh, and try picking up a USB gamepad, or play with a converted. My choice is a SNES original pad plugged into a smartjoy. A Saturn USB pad is also a very good choice but they are quite hard to get at the moment; hard to get at an importer, that is.

Thanks for the link, i will have a look

I already tried using a PS2 joysick with USB and didnt like playing
on my PC. So I decided to get a PS2 instead

DC906270 wrote:i re-iterate, all you need is

1) a MAME set up with arcade stick (connected via RGB )
2) a japanese PS2
3) a Dreamcast

I want to build a cabinet in the future just to play MAME shooters

Cheers
Harlequin

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:16 am

louisg wrote:I'd actually suggest Dreamcast, as long as you don't only want 2d games (because there are only a couple of those). It's got a lot of really original shooters on it like the 3 bullet-reflect ones from Takumi, Ikaruga, Rajirugi, Zero Gunner 2, and then a pretty big share of flawless ports of 3d shooters. It's also very easy to get imports running on it (all you need is a CD-R boot disc), and every 3d game on it afaik supports progressive scan via a VGA box (which is native output on the system). Additionally, pretty much all of the shooters made before 2001 actually had domestic releases so it's really easy to get up and running with a handful of legit shmups.

HOWEVER... if you are mostly into the Psikyo, Cave or Gradius/Salamander style, you will probably be disappointed since the only Psikyo games on it which are not on other systems aren't the traditional 2d ones, but Zero Gunner 2 and Cannon Spike-- and there is nothing by Cave or Konami on it. In that case you'd be better off going for Saturn which has quite a bit of both of those. That system is also pretty easy to run imports on-- you just need a cartridge.

Its a toss up between DC and SS, I really dont know which to choose,\I am leaning towards SS at the moment, but i want both!

Cheers
Harlequin

Harlequin · Post by **Harlequin** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:18 am

bloodflowers wrote:Thing that does it for me is the unholy alliance of great games the PS2 managed to pick up in recent years. Just consider: DDP DOJ, Espgaluda, Gradius V, Dragon Blaze - that's already hard to beat. Then consider other good titles like Mushihimesama, Ibara, R-Type Final, the Sengoku Ace/Blade set, Homura, Raiden 3. Then consider some of the PS1 games you can also play on a PS2 - Einhander, Gradius Gaiden, DDP. Then consider the Taito collections - containing among other things the best version of G-Darius.

It's going to be hard at this point in time, for another system to better the PS2 now, or perhaps ever as the genre continues to shrink.

Of course, a JAMMA cab trumps them all in an instant

Thats a great list, i really have alot of games to find and play
for the PS2, thanks for the list!

I am glad i chose the Ps2 forst, Raiden III was worth the purchase
alone!

Thanks to everyone for the info!

Cheers
Harlequin

Neon · Post by **Neon** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:23 am

DC is a great shmups machine.

SS and PS2 are great shmups, fighting, racing, puzzle, platform and general arcade/unique games machines.

FWIW.

Gorecki · Post by **Gorecki** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:26 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:GWG and Radirgy were subpar/poor.

Aww really? I bought GWG today for PS2.

Bishamon · Post by **Bishamon** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:55 pm

It partly depends on your favourite developers, as others have mentioned, but the Saturn is my favourite systems for shmups.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:34 pm

Another vote for the saturn.

Though I never owned a Dreamcast (only shmup I played on it was Ikaruga), and never owned a PS2 (neither ever played any shmup on it).

And I have to agree, the PS2 indeed has a very very strong library at this moment.

The PC-Engine also has a formidable library, which deserves a good mention.

And I'd like to make a small comment for the MSX library, it's probably the system with the highest amount of shmups (Yeah, it rivals the PC-Engine library in quantity), and it has some top-notch titles

Post by **BulletMagnet** » Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:13 pm

Gorecki wrote:Aww really? I bought GWG today for PS2.

It's not unplayable, but the lack of the proper view mode and frame rate can be a pain. At any rate, if you bought the "Taito Best" version (or the sale version at P-A) and got the game cheap methinks you didn't make a bad purchase, because in spite of the port's problems I think (though others disagree) that the actual game, if you can focus in on that, is pretty darn good.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:00 am

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=113

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=2400

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:22 pm

Shatterhand wrote:I never owned a Dreamcast (only shmup I played on it was Ikaruga), and never owned a PS2 (neither ever played any shmup on it).

Wow, that's like living under a rock...

What are you waiting for?

Shatterhand wrote:And I'd like to make a small comment for the MSX library, it's probably the system with the highest amount of shmups (Yeah, it rivals the PC-Engine library in quantity), and it has some top-notch titles

Most MSX (I) games seem to have horrible scrolling (or rather, stuttering) probably due to hardware constraints; when looking at MSX ports of games like Gradius they are VASTLY inferior on a technical level to their Famicom counterparts released at the same time. Are there any shmups that exist for MSX and Famicom that are actually better on MSX?

Gorecki · Post by **Gorecki** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:27 pm

BulletMagnet wrote:It's not unplayable, but the lack of the proper view mode and frame rate can be a pain. At any rate, if you bought the "Taito Best" version (or the sale version at P-A) and got the game cheap methinks you didn't make a bad purchase, because in spite of the port's problems I think (though others disagree) that the actual game, if you can focus in on that, is pretty darn good.

I have the 505 Gamestret PAL release, which was a bargain at £8 I believe.

First impressions, I think it's a brilliant. You really get a good feeling of being a weapon of mass destruction, the bullet patterns are absurd, and the points even more so.

Anyway, I'm going off topic, so to put my two cents in I'll say the PS2 beats all other systems hands down.

Post by **Shatterhand** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:45 pm

Ceph wrote:
Shatterhand wrote:I never owned a Dreamcast (only shmup I played on it was Ikaruga), and never owned a PS2 (neither ever played any shmup on it).
Wow, that's like living under a rock... What are you waiting for?

Money. I live in a 3rd world country and I have a job that pays horribly. A PS2 still is a luxury item here, it's not that easy to buy one. A dreamcast is cheaper, and I've been wanting to buy one for a while, but still didn't.

Ceph wrote:
Shatterhand wrote:And I'd like to make a small comment for the MSX library, it's probably the system with the highest amount of shmups (Yeah, it rivals the PC-Engine library in quantity), and it has some top-notch titles
Most MSX (I) games seem to have horrible scrolling (or rather, stuttering) probably due to hardware constraints; when looking at MSX ports of games like Gradius they are VASTLY inferior on a technical level to their Famicom counterparts released at the same time. Are there any shmups that exist for MSX and Famicom that are actually better on MSX?

Zanac. There are probably a few more, but most of shmups released for both the NES and MSX, were released for the MSX 1 . (When I say Zanac, I mean Zanac EX for the MSX 2). Though regarding Gradius, hands down, the NES port is a lot better. But NES doesn't have the MSX Gradius 2 neither Nemesis 3.

You probably only played MSX 1 games though. Aleste 2, Space Manbow, Super Laydock 1 & 2, Hinotori. There's nothing on NES that gets even close to those games. And then you have Rona, Sea Sardine, Hype, Hydefos, Gall Force, Zanac EX, Blaster Burn, Famicle Parodic 1 & 2 and a few others, and you get a library that just stomps the NES one.

Super Laydock · Post by **Super Laydock** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:43 pm

Shatterhand wrote: There's nothing on NES that gets even close to those games.

Not wanting to rain on the parade, but there's always Recca...

Otherwise I agree!

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:07 pm

Shatterhand wrote:
Ceph wrote:
Shatterhand wrote:I never owned a Dreamcast (only shmup I played on it was Ikaruga), and never owned a PS2 (neither ever played any shmup on it).
Wow, that's like living under a rock... What are you waiting for?
Money. I live in a 3rd world country and I have a job that pays horribly. A PS2 still is a luxury item here, it's not that easy to buy one. A dreamcast is cheaper, and I've been wanting to buy one for a while, but still didn't.

Ouch, sorry about the rock comment! Living in Europe I sometimes take it for granted that pretty much everyone can afford a PS2 or Dreamcast.

Shatterhand wrote:
Ceph wrote:
Shatterhand wrote:And I'd like to make a small comment for the MSX library, it's probably the system with the highest amount of shmups (Yeah, it rivals the PC-Engine library in quantity), and it has some top-notch titles
Most MSX (I) games seem to have horrible scrolling (or rather, stuttering) probably due to hardware constraints; when looking at MSX ports of games like Gradius they are VASTLY inferior on a technical level to their Famicom counterparts released at the same time. Are there any shmups that exist for MSX and Famicom that are actually better on MSX?
Zanac. There are probably a few more, but most of shmups released for both the NES and MSX, were released for the MSX 1 . (When I say Zanac, I mean Zanac EX for the MSX 2). Though regarding Gradius, hands down, the NES port is a lot better. But NES doesn't have the MSX Gradius 2 neither Nemesis 3.

You probably only played MSX 1 games though. Aleste 2, Space Manbow, Super Laydock 1 & 2, Hinotori. There's nothing on NES that gets even close to those games. And then you have Rona, Sea Sardine, Hype, Hydefos, Gall Force, Zanac EX, Blaster Burn, Famicle Parodic 1 & 2 and a few others, and you get a library that just stomps the NES one.

Yes, you are right. I only tried MSX 1 games. I'd love to get MSX 2 games like Aleste 2, but I don't think I've ever seen one for sale around these parts.

Ceph · Post by **Ceph** » Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:15 pm

Super Laydock wrote:
Shatterhand wrote: There's nothing on NES that gets even close to those games.
Not wanting to rain on the parade, but there's always Recca...
Otherwise I agree!

Aside from short breaks for Gun Nac and Crisis Force, Recca has been in my Famicom's slot non-stop since I got it a few months ago. It's really fantastic. Probably the most impressive 8-bit home system game I have ever played.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:05 am

Shatterhand wrote:Zanac. There are probably a few more, but most of shmups released for both the NES and MSX, were released for the MSX 1 . (When I say Zanac, I mean Zanac EX for the MSX 2). Though regarding Gradius, hands down, the NES port is a lot better. But NES doesn't have the MSX Gradius 2 neither Nemesis 3.

You probably only played MSX 1 games though. Aleste 2, Space Manbow, Super Laydock 1 & 2, Hinotori. There's nothing on NES that gets even close to those games. And then you have Rona, Sea Sardine, Hype, Hydefos, Gall Force, Zanac EX, Blaster Burn, Famicle Parodic 1 & 2 and a few others, and you get a library that just stomps the NES one.

And that's the greatest tragedy of MSX. All the best came with MSX2, which was much more performing as an hardware. But, oh the irony, most of the memorable franchises (gradius, parodius, salamander, twinbee) preceded it and therefore got just a MSX release, often hampered by clunky scrolling.

I don't think MSX1 stand a chance against NES. And there's no reason to bring up Recca.

MSX2 is all another story - excellent stuff developed for it, although limited in quantity. Somehow reminds me of a 2600/7800 relationship.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:08 am

Ceph wrote:Aside from short breaks for Gun Nac and Crisis Force, Recca has been in my Famicom's slot non-stop since I got it a few months ago. It's really fantastic. Probably the most impressive [NES] [shmup] I have ever played.

There, fixed. It's not the most impressive in the whole NES library.

And for the 8-bit part - well there were a lot of 8-bit more powerful than NES, so beating Recca is rare, but not impossible to see. Have a look at Power Strike II SMS.