Best Controller to play Shmups?

[jd213]

I no longer have a PS5 but it looks pretty easy to padhack a DualSense (L2/R2/L3/R3 might not be common ground though), I'd rather do that than spends hundreds just to get a compatible stick.

[Rastan78]

I no longer have a PS5 but it looks pretty easy to padhack a DualSense (L2/R2/L3/R3 might not be common ground though), I'd rather do that than spends hundreds just to get a compatible stick.

Might be easier and more reliable to use a brook board. Doesn't cost much more than a dual sense.

https://arcadeshock.com/products/brook- ... ilable-now

[Lemnear]

The Victrix Pro FS arrived, my god, it weighs a lot and is made of aircraft-grade aluminum. I thought the Sanwa Denshi stick would be softer, but it's just right. Maybe I need to get used to the square gate underneath, maybe I'll replace it with an octagonal one if I really don't like it. The Sanwa Denshi buttons are very soft to the touch, maybe even too soft, very sensitive.
It has an insane responsiveness, and I tried a bunch of shmups and... some of them have completely changed my perception of the games.
I tried the native PS5 titles first; Raiden III X Mikado Maniax is glorious with the stick, ditto Under Defeat HD+ and Gradius Origins. Among the non-native (so PS4) titles, Ray'z Arcade Chronology is extraordinary. RayForce has become the most enjoyable game I own, it's orgasmic. Even the Aleste Collection is perfect despite being backwards compatible, but you can see that it's a game designed for the D-Pad, and above all, you can feel it.
I wish I could say the same for Toaplan Garage: Hishouzame/Same!Same!Same!, DDP DOJ, and Ketsui, but these aren't "improved." Maybe it's because I'm more accustomed to the regular controller and D-Pad on these. I can't explain why or what exactly.

PS: Raiden Fighters Remix is ​​unplayable on anything until it's patched.

Oh my god I don't know if I could have gotten something this well built, solid and responsive for the same amount I got it for if I had custom built it, I didn't even pay for shipping.

[jd213]

I no longer have a PS5 but it looks pretty easy to padhack a DualSense (L2/R2/L3/R3 might not be common ground though), I'd rather do that than spends hundreds just to get a compatible stick.

Might be easier and more reliable to use a brook board. Doesn't cost much more than a dual sense.

https://arcadeshock.com/products/brook- ... ilable-now

One can get an untested DualSense for around $20 on ebay, might have stick drift but that won't matter for padhacking. So that's like 1/4th the price and you won't have to worry about Sony system software updates suddenly causing incompatibilites

[D]

I wish I could say the same for Toaplan Garage: Hishouzame/Same!Same!Same!, DDP DOJ, and Ketsui, but these aren't "improved."

What do you mean by that exactly?

[Steven]

What a timely topic. I was playing some Darius game today (already forgot which one) with the M30 2.4g (for Real MD/Genesis™) and it did some weird thing where it thought I was holding down for like a second instead of a few frames, so it crashed me into something and I died. I've been having this problem recently, and it doesn't seem to matter which USB cable I use because it happens with every one I've tried, and since I am on the latest firmware, it's not like updating it will fix it. The M30 2.4g (for Real MD/Genesis™) is an awesome controller when used on the Real MD/Genesis™, but for other purposes, I'm banishing it from use.

I did find an alternative: the MD Mini controller. The MD Mini itself is a worthless laggy piece of shit, but the controller is excellent. Turns out that for some reason Steam didn't have the controller button mappings assigned, so after I assigned them, it works perfectly as long as I have Steam input enabled. No idea how much lag this controller has since nobody seems to have tested it, but it can't be worse than the average Switch controller. Obviously also lose L and Select and have Mode (assigned to Select) instead of a decent R, but no complaints so far. Its d-pad is better than the M30's and much more accurate to the real MD 6-button/Saturn d-pads anyway.

Also retried the 8BitDooDoo Neo Geo controller because why the hell not. I still don't like it, but it's not as bad as I previously thought. Still hate the giant deadzone on the clicky stick compared to my real Neo Geo CD controller. Super comfortable controller, though.

Eventually I'm going to get a UFB and put it in my damn RAP N and rip out that horrid floppy Hayabusa lever and replace it with WASD or something. Eventually.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The Victrix Pro FS arrived, my god, it weighs a lot and is made of aircraft-grade aluminum. I thought the Sanwa Denshi stick would be softer, but it's just right. Maybe I need to get used to the square gate underneath, maybe I'll replace it with an octagonal one if I really don't like it. The Sanwa Denshi buttons are very soft to the touch, maybe even too soft, very sensitive.
It has an insane responsiveness, and I tried a bunch of shmups and... some of them have completely changed my perception of the games.
I tried the native PS5 titles first; Raiden III X Mikado Maniax is glorious with the stick, ditto Under Defeat HD+ and Gradius Origins. Among the non-native (so PS4) titles, Ray'z Arcade Chronology is extraordinary. RayForce has become the most enjoyable game I own, it's orgasmic. Even the Aleste Collection is perfect despite being backwards compatible, but you can see that it's a game designed for the D-Pad, and above all, you can feel it.
I wish I could say the same for Toaplan Garage: Hishouzame/Same!Same!Same!, DDP DOJ, and Ketsui, but these aren't "improved." Maybe it's because I'm more accustomed to the regular controller and D-Pad on these. I can't explain why or what exactly.

PS: Raiden Fighters Remix is ​​unplayable on anything until it's patched.

Oh my god I don't know if I could have gotten something this well built, solid and responsive for the same amount I got it for if I had custom built it, I didn't even pay for shipping.

For Lemnear,

I didn't know that Turtle Beach owns the Victrix branded lineup of controllers -- you learn something new everyday.

The factory-installed square gate is necessary for the PS5 and PS4 based stg titles -- an octagonal one is primarly used for the fighting (FTG) games. You can always swap a Seimitsu LS-32 joystick and Seimitsu 30mm sized PS-14 push buttons https://arcadeshock.com/collections/sei ... ttons-30mm in lieu of the factory-installed Sanwa Denshi parts -- it's just a matter of personal taste/preference, that's all it comes down to in the end.

Here's an Arcade Shock exclusive Limited Edition Seimitsu LS-32-01 joystick with some cool swag: https://arcadeshock.com/collections/sei ... n-ls-32-01

----------
As they are, both Cave arcade stg titles of DoDonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou and Ketsui are designed from the "ground-up" as purely digital-based 8-way joystick inputs from the "get-go" with the original Cave jamma pcb releases of DDP-DOJ & Ketsui on the IGS PGM (Poly Game Master) arcade platform indeed. You can even buy an IGS PGM jamma motherboard pcb + all three IGS PGM cartridges of DDP-DOJ (in both plain-vanilla "White Label" and "Black Label" variants), Ketsui & ESPgaluda that have better audio fidelity output compared to the original Cave/IGS single-layered jamma pcbs of the previously listed Cave/IGS arcade stg titles for use on a Japanese candy cab or portable supergun setup.

IGS "Poly Game Master" jamma pcb with all three PGM carts (is truly cheaper than buying the original "single-layer" jamma pcbs of the same names, especially nowadays):

DoDonpachi-DOJ WL & BL variants (the BL version is the one to get as it already has both WL & BL versions on a single PGM cartridge -- so there's no need to get the DDP-DOJ WL PGM cart by itself unless you want it for completeness' sake.)
Ketsui
ESPgaluda

There is an eprom hack that allows a plain-vanilla single-layer Cave/IGS DoDonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou jamma pcb to utilize the on-board Varta "back-up" battery to save both high scores and high score initials for posterity that was released back in 2011. How cool is that?
----------

With a "custom-built" arcade stick, you definitely do get what you pay for in the eventual conclusion.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Lemnear]

Spoiler

For Lemnear,
I didn't know that Turtle Beach owns the Victrix branded lineup of controllers -- you learn something new everyday.

The factory-installed square gate is necessary for the PS5 and PS4 based stg titles -- an octagonal one is primarly used for the fighting (FTG) games. You can always swap a Seimitsu LS-32 joystick and Seimitsu 30mm sized PS-14 push buttons https://arcadeshock.com/collections/sei ... ttons-30mm in lieu of the factory-installed Sanwa Denshi parts -- it's just a matter of personal taste/preference, that's all it comes down to in the end.

Here's an Arcade Shock exclusive Limited Edition Seimitsu LS-32-01 joystick with some cool swag: https://arcadeshock.com/collections/sei ... n-ls-32-01

----------
As they are, both Cave arcade stg titles of DoDonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou and Ketsui are designed from the "ground-up" as purely digital-based 8-way joystick inputs from the "get-go" with the original Cave jamma pcb releases of DDP-DOJ & Ketsui on the IGS PGM (Poly Game Master) arcade platform indeed. You can even buy an IGS PGM jamma motherboard pcb + all three IGS PGM cartridges of DDP-DOJ (in both plain-vanilla "White Label" and "Black Label" variants), Ketsui & ESPgaluda that have better audio fidelity output compared to the original Cave/IGS single-layered jamma pcbs of the previously listed Cave/IGS arcade stg titles for use on a Japanese candy cab or portable supergun setup.

IGS "Poly Game Master" jamma pcb with all three PGM carts (is truly cheaper than buying the original "single-layer" jamma pcbs of the same names, especially nowadays):

DoDonpachi-DOJ WL & BL variants (the BL version is the one to get as it already has both WL & BL versions on a single PGM cartridge -- so there's no need to get the DDP-DOJ WL PGM cart by itself unless you want it for completeness' sake.)
Ketsui
ESPgaluda

There is an eprom hack that allows a plain-vanilla single-layer Cave/IGS DoDonpachi Dai-Ou-Jou jamma pcb to utilize the on-board Varta "back-up" battery to save both high scores and high score initials for posterity that was released back in 2011. How cool is that?
----------

With a "custom-built" arcade stick, you definitely do get what you pay for in the eventual conclusion.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

It's fine for now, ah...so the default setting for shooters is a square gate? If so, I won't change it.
For the original audio, let's say I'm fine with the ShotTriggers as is, and for ESP.Ra.De I use the Remixed OST 100%, so it doesn't matter haha
But damn, they're difficult to use the stick, here the jump is much more noticeable.

I wish I could say the same for Toaplan Garage: Hishouzame/Same!Same!Same!, DDP DOJ, and Ketsui, but these aren't "improved."

What do you mean by that exactly?

I can't really say the exact difference, I just know that with this one I'm better with the D-Pad than with the stick, but maybe it's just a matter of getting used to it. Let's say it's doable for me now, but I need to practice, while Ketsui/DOJ require movements that I don't know how to do with the stick yet, I think. The stick is making old-school shmups easier for me than Danmaku.
The fact is that it's completely changed my personal ranking, or rather, it depends on the controller, and strangely, where I'm more used to one, I don't do well with the other, and in other cases the transition was lightning-fast (Raiden III for example, and Under Defeat and RayForce/Storm/Crisis), and I'll also add Thunder Dragon 1, which has now become incredibly enjoyable o_o
It's as if in some games there is a bigger deadzone than in others, and in others that deadzone is 0.

[DarkSlayer]

M30 is good but I get stuck inputs on the directional pad very frequently when using it wireless on my Switch. Could obviously be some signal interference but it drives me nuts and has ruined more than a few runs when I just go flying off in one direction.

It’s interference, when I moved away from my router I never had the diagonal problem.

[JBC]

I just use that 8bitdo stick with the 2.4ghz reciever and Brook adapters. Idk if it's the best but I can't be arsed with wires anymore and I never suspect lag.

It's very relaxing to sit down at my desk at night with a shot or two in me and some big robot space fish to shoot.

[AGermanArtist]

I'm such a lazy bastard. I've had a Razer Pantera with Sanwa parts until recently and barely used it, so I got rid of it. It was just TOO much hassle to hook it up. I ended up using one of my wireless controllers. I also have an 8-BitDo NES style Switch 2 stick and it's rarely used.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Just an FYI here. Turtle beach are selling the Victirx Pro FS fightstick in the UK direct at £180 which is absolutely insane. Cheapest I've ever seen it, cheapest by a mile in comparison. Picked one up myself.

https://uk.turtlebeach.com/products/vic ... olor=White

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Just an FYI here. Turtle beach are selling the Victirx Pro FS fightstick in the UK direct at £180 which is absolutely insane. Cheapest I've ever seen it, cheapest by a mile in comparison. Picked one up myself.

https://uk.turtlebeach.com/products/vic ... olor=White

On the USA region Victrix site, same said listed Victrix Pro FS is priced at a whopping $399.99 usd!

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Hyperspace]

I’m not sure as there being a best. But I wouldn’t mind getting a new steam controller with tmr Hall effect sticks. It might not be the best, but it could be close.

[To Far Away Times]

I made the switch from a PS1 controller with a USB adapter to a PS4 controller (the V2 model). Nice plastics, and the segmented D-Pad and buttons are top notch. Button travel feels just right.

There are lots of small differences as to why I like it more than a PS5 controller.

[blazinglazers69]

I agree with Steven. Ever since I made the switch to keyboard (particularly Hall Effect) I've never had an urge to go back to stick or pad. With Hall Effect you can adjust the sensitivity including the sensitivity for RELEASING an input which makes things feel delightfully snappy and responsive. This is especially nice for Gradius and R-Type if you accidentally power your ship up too fast and need to do fast tap dodging for precise movement. For modern bullet hells with a focus button you can pretty much use whatever the hell you want.

Plus there's a million options for switches with different feels and actuation pressures.

I pretty much always go wired to not have to worry about latency as much personally. High refresh monitor always helps too as well as a million other technical tweaks you can do on PC to your heart's content.

I still do play on a dpad sometimes though. I'm working on SMB The Lost Levels and the muscle memory for a dpad is insanely deep from childhood that I cannot get comfortable on keyboard. I guess since I didn't start shmupping until my 20s it was easier to switch, I don't know.

These days for a controller I really, really love the Gulikit Elves 2 controller. It's a Saturn/M30 style dpad, but a bit stiffer which I personally like more. The face and shoulder buttons are conventional style with 2 triggers, 2 RL, and 4 face buttons which is way more intuitive to me and more plug and play friendly with other modern games. I even like using it for 3D games. I get why some people like the M30 for fighters, and obviously Street Fighter, but I don't play them myself.

[Jonpachi]

I agree with Steven. Ever since I made the switch to keyboard (particularly Hall Effect) I've never had an urge to go back to stick or pad. With Hall Effect you can adjust the sensitivity including the sensitivity for RELEASING an input which makes things feel delightfully snappy and responsive. This is especially nice for Gradius and R-Type if you accidentally power your ship up too fast and need to do fast tap dodging for precise movement. For modern bullet hells with a focus button you can pretty much use whatever the hell you want.

Plus there's a million options for switches with different feels and actuation pressures.

I pretty much always go wired to not have to worry about latency as much personally. High refresh monitor always helps too as well as a million other technical tweaks you can do on PC to your heart's content.

I still do play on a dpad sometimes though. I'm working on SMB The Lost Levels and the muscle memory for a dpad is insanely deep from childhood that I cannot get comfortable on keyboard. I guess since I didn't start shmupping until my 20s it was easier to switch, I don't know.

These days for a controller I really, really love the Gulikit Elves 2 controller. It's a Saturn/M30 style dpad, but a bit stiffer which I personally like more. The face and shoulder buttons are conventional style with 2 triggers, 2 RL, and 4 face buttons which is way more intuitive to me and more plug and play friendly with other modern games. I even like using it for 3D games. I get why some people like the M30 for fighters, and obviously Street Fighter, but I don't play them myself.

It really is just about muscle memory in the end. I’ve been playing with a joystick and buttons since I was old enough to stand on a stool at the Donkey Kong machine, and nothing else feels as “right”.

[SquidDude]

I'll add my 2 cents here, I've been using arcade stick pretty much exclusively since I started playing a couple of years ago. I've settled on the stock LS-32, and Seimitsu PS-14-K buttons.
I think keyboard is objectively the best, and I do feel like I am held back by using arcade stick on a couple of very specific patterns (call it a skill issue, whatever).

I think of the main three input methods as follows:

Stick:
Pros: Ergonomically the best, very fun to use, buttons are probably the best out of any input method. And if you get good using it, you'll be able to play well in an arcade too
Cons: Lacks a tiny bit of precision, even with something like an LS-32.

Pad:
Pros: Might be easiest to use for big console players?
Cons: I think pretty much all d-pads suck, they're either too sensitive on diagonals or not sensitive enough, and the face buttons make stuff like empty locking in Ketsui extremely annoying unless you rebind a shot button to a trigger, or something

Keyboard:
Pros: The most precise directional input method, and everyone should have a decent keyboard lying around somewhere (I hope!), so it's also the most accessible input method.
Cons: Hurts my wrist, generally just not fun (makes me feel like a t**h** player), and if a kb-only player ever tried to play on a cab they'd be screwed.

But honestly, anything half-decent will work great until you start getting into the absolute hardest games, if you ask me.

[Steven]

I think pretty much all d-pads suck

You did say pretty much, so obviously there are exceptions, but have you tried the Vita's d-pad? It's excellent. Might be the best one in existence.

[Whiskers]

You did say pretty much, so obviously there are exceptions

Squid’s an Englishman, Steven. “Pretty much” means definitely all and every d-pad in existence. And I pretty much concur with his assessment.

[SquidDude]

Right you are there I have not tried the Vita pad, I think out of all the ones I've tried I liked the SFC pad's one the most (but only if the controller has the white membrane, as opposed to the orange one).
Still, it's no LS-32

[Whiskers]

I honestly don’t know how people play shmups with a d-pad. Even when I was using a gamepad, I’d use the joystick for movement. It just seems more natural to me.

I have nothing against keyboards. But they can be a bitch when you’re playing a shmup with more than 3 buttons. Think DFK and AK for example.

[DietSoap]

I just use that 8bitdo stick with the 2.4ghz reciever and Brook adapters. Idk if it's the best but I can't be arsed with wires anymore and I never suspect lag.

It's very relaxing to sit down at my desk at night with a shot or two in me and some big robot space fish to shoot.

Ever since I got my Retrobit Saturn controller with the 2.4ghz dongle, I've been converted to a wireless true believer. It was legitimately the fastest responding controller I had ever used up to that point. Or at least my brain seemed to think so. Still is, actually.

I've heard less favorable things about wireless via bluetooth, but I've never tried it.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I just use that 8bitdo stick with the 2.4ghz reciever and Brook adapters. Idk if it's the best but I can't be arsed with wires anymore and I never suspect lag.

It's very relaxing to sit down at my desk at night with a shot or two in me and some big robot space fish to shoot.

Ever since I got my Retrobit Saturn controller with the 2.4ghz dongle, I've been converted to a wireless true believer. It was legitimately the fastest responding controller I had ever used up to that point. Or at least my brain seemed to think so. Still is, actually.

I've heard less favorable things about wireless via bluetooth, but I've never tried it.

You might recall that SCEI was not 100% sure about doing a wireless Dual Shock 3 controller, hence the 1st-gen Sony branded PS3 "Six Axis" CECHZC1U controller didn't have the dual rumble motors whatsoever: https://www.ebay.com/itm/176202608999?_ ... BM7pyw_MZn

They managed to finally add in the rumble motors and thus, the 1st-gen truly wireless DS3 controller was born -- they originally thought that the rumble motors would affect the Bluetooth transmission signal but managed to overcome that particular issue with the Sony CECHZC2 based Dual Shock 3 controller: https://www.ebay.com/itm/336585307222?_ ... R9KYjf3GZw

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[lastemperorjubei]

I'm mainly a Switch 1 and 2 player (sometimes pc emulation and Steam), so I used all kinds of joycons (Nintendo, Hori) and the Pro Controller. After trying the Elves 2 I must conclude that it is one of the best controllers I've used (this includes Mega Drive/Genesis and Saturn). The dpad is great and precise, the latency (Bluetooth) is low on Switch 2, it can wake the Switch 2, it has a modern pad layout and 2 joysticks if I switch to "modern" games. Now I hope it doesn't break and lasts some years. I tried it this week with Esprade Psi and in the first minutes using it got some gold medals in some challenges where I didn't have gold before (like the stage 4 boss). I chose it over the M30 because of the better Bluetooth performance with Switch and the modern layout.

[AllocMem]

I am in love with my Saturn Model 2 controller.