Any thoughts on Neo Geo AES+?

[spmbx]

But I am sceptical about how they can deliver the cartridges at the "1:1" level of quality stated at the current prices (same goes for the hardware).

Why wouldn't they? For the carts its basically just a big hunk of plastic with 2 fingerboards and a mediocre amount of flash memory. Seems like they should have quite a big margin on that to me.

[Restart_Point]

But I am sceptical about how they can deliver the cartridges at the "1:1" level of quality stated at the current prices (same goes for the hardware).

Why wouldn't they? For the carts its basically just a big hunk of plastic with 2 fingerboards and a mediocre amount of flash memory. Seems like they should have quite a big margin on that to me.

There is of course the question of what quality & longevity memory they can use at the price. I would be very happy for my scepticism to be proved unfounded, about the carts and the console, but Plainon have not done that yet, we just have words so far. There is more to the carts than just flash memory and pins, they need controller chips etc for voltage level shifting, banking, "glue logic" and other stuff to enable NOR to work with old hardware. Indie games for AES cost $400 or more. $329.99 was the cheapest one I could find when it was in stock. Xeno Crisis sold for $500.

[Unseen]

Their use of an ASIC instead of an FPGA is nonsensical and probably purely for marketing purposes.

Their use of an ASIC is probably for economic reasons and the marketing department decided to lean into it as a differentiator.

FPGAs have a high per-unit cost but low initial setup costs. ASICs can be very cheap per chip, but you need to spend quite a bit of money upfront to actually get them manufactured, so if your projected production numbers are big enough ASIC can be the better choice. If they did it properly (and IIRC some comments indicate they did), they can also make the ASIC natively compatible with 5V signals instead of relying on external level translator chips for that. That is an even bigger concern on the Neo Geo compared to almost any other cartridge-based system out there because there are so many digital signals on the cartridge slot - looks like 150+ from a quick glance at the pinout.

[Guspaz]

2) SNK is fully owned by the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, the one who had that journalist chopped up with a bone saw. So there are moral implications to any modern involvement with their licensed IP.

So is 100% your cutoff (oof, bad pun) or would you also reject Nintendo games since they're like 5% owned by the Saudis?

I feel like there's a difference between "5% ownership via an investment from the country's sovereign wealth fund" versus "100% ownership by the crown prince directly/personally", even if, as the ruler of the country, he has a lot of control over the sovereign wealth fund.

Is the Neo Geo core on Mister not reasonably accurate already? I would think that it has been out long enough that most inaccuracies would have been found by now. At least the ones that actually matter and impacts gameplay.

Edit: The Neo Geo cartridge port is also massive, requiring a large amount of IO. Would that even be possible with any reasonably priced FPGA?

The git repo for it is still receiving regular updates, so clearly it's not perfect/final. The cartridge bus is wide but slow, so multiplexing would be possible. In fact, the neo geo is *already* multiplexing some of those pins to use them for multiple purposes. But there are also relatively affordable FPGAs with several hundred GPIOs.

Their use of an ASIC instead of an FPGA is nonsensical and probably purely for marketing purposes.

Their use of an ASIC is probably for economic reasons and the marketing department decided to lean into it as a differentiator.

FPGAs have a high per-unit cost but low initial setup costs. ASICs can be very cheap per chip, but you need to spend quite a bit of money upfront to actually get them manufactured, so if your projected production numbers are big enough ASIC can be the better choice. If they did it properly (and IIRC some comments indicate they did), they can also make the ASIC natively compatible with 5V signals instead of relying on external level translator chips for that. That is an even bigger concern on the Neo Geo compared to almost any other cartridge-based system out there because there are so many digital signals on the cartridge slot - looks like 150+ from a quick glance at the pinout.

The neo geo was a niche product, and sales of a re-creation of it is a niche of a niche. They're not going to sell enough of these to get the per-chip ASIC costs lower than the FPGAs. Especially with the rise of low-cost Chinese FPGA vendors like GOWIN. But yeah, that's a lot of level translators.

[bobrocks95]

What is folks opinion using original size boxes and cartridges?

For me its a deterrent. (I don't own any AES games). I have no space to have one of these things pre setup and I'm happy with my game room as it is. I don't mind the real experience but I don't see myself buying this machine and having large book shelves to put these games on it. Even if they release 40 games, imagine how much space that takes up? Also how many games outside of fighters are getting released?

I did some research with AI about the NGCD being re released and it said it would have the same bottlenecks as the NGCD. But when I said to change the source code in re-released games to load all the data as one big file dump in to 128MB of RAM from a chip or blu ray drive it said it could be done for $250-$300 MSRP quite easily. A 4x Blu ray drive would load Metal Slug 3 in its entirety at 708megabits in 4 seconds. Apparently 128MB RAM would have cost $5000 in 1994.

So the only reason to buy this NG+ is to have a great collection on the wall. You can already play most of the games on the Switch via HDMI, or by emulation if that's your boat.

I am also concerned for the project that 161-1 AES carts already exist. Where is the incentive to buy the re-released games if they already exist on a multi cart that has a 99.9% chance of being compatible with this hardware?

Too much emphasis has gone into look, feel and authenticity. But we live in a world now where everyone has multiple systems. Without new games being released I think it will be a 1-2 week wonder machine and people will get bored with it, or have it as an ornament dusting it off from time to time.

For those with emulation devices, Misters, PC's, Evercades, Nintendo Switch where is the incentive to get this monster machine out and play with it?

I think it devalues the historical prestige of the original system myself. But I hope it brings enjoyment to those who want it. If they release a NGCD profile system I might dive in, perhaps I am confused to who this machine is aimed at. I think it has equal ability to upset the pre existing collectors as it will bring new ones onboard.

The 10 or so games confirmed are a mixed bag and I would expect Metal Slug and one of the fighters to get 1-1 adoption or thereabouts.

I think maybe you need to consider that you just don't like the Neo Geo all that much, so this product isn't for you. Which is perfectly fine- the Neo Geo is perfectly playable a dozen different and much cheaper ways. But the giant carts ARE the appeal. If they had some miniaturized system, you can already get physical Neo Geo games on the Evercade. No point in re-hashing it. On top of that, all of the titles they selected, with I'd say the exception of Over Top, are iconic for the platform. At least 6 are absolute bangers if you ask me. If you're looking and thinking "Eh... Metal Slug again?" I think you're good to just move on and forget about it instead of trying to dig for reasons to be convinced.

[neorichieb1971]

What is folks opinion using original size boxes and cartridges?

For me its a deterrent. (I don't own any AES games). I have no space to have one of these things pre setup and I'm happy with my game room as it is. I don't mind the real experience but I don't see myself buying this machine and having large book shelves to put these games on it. Even if they release 40 games, imagine how much space that takes up? Also how many games outside of fighters are getting released?

I did some research with AI about the NGCD being re released and it said it would have the same bottlenecks as the NGCD. But when I said to change the source code in re-released games to load all the data as one big file dump in to 128MB of RAM from a chip or blu ray drive it said it could be done for $250-$300 MSRP quite easily. A 4x Blu ray drive would load Metal Slug 3 in its entirety at 708megabits in 4 seconds. Apparently 128MB RAM would have cost $5000 in 1994.

So the only reason to buy this NG+ is to have a great collection on the wall. You can already play most of the games on the Switch via HDMI, or by emulation if that's your boat.

I am also concerned for the project that 161-1 AES carts already exist. Where is the incentive to buy the re-released games if they already exist on a multi cart that has a 99.9% chance of being compatible with this hardware?

Too much emphasis has gone into look, feel and authenticity. But we live in a world now where everyone has multiple systems. Without new games being released I think it will be a 1-2 week wonder machine and people will get bored with it, or have it as an ornament dusting it off from time to time.

For those with emulation devices, Misters, PC's, Evercades, Nintendo Switch where is the incentive to get this monster machine out and play with it?

I think it devalues the historical prestige of the original system myself. But I hope it brings enjoyment to those who want it. If they release a NGCD profile system I might dive in, perhaps I am confused to who this machine is aimed at. I think it has equal ability to upset the pre existing collectors as it will bring new ones onboard.

The 10 or so games confirmed are a mixed bag and I would expect Metal Slug and one of the fighters to get 1-1 adoption or thereabouts.

I think maybe you need to consider that you just don't like the Neo Geo all that much, so this product isn't for you. Which is perfectly fine- the Neo Geo is perfectly playable a dozen different and much cheaper ways. But the giant carts ARE the appeal. If they had some miniaturized system, you can already get physical Neo Geo games on the Evercade. No point in re-hashing it. On top of that, all of the titles they selected, with I'd say the exception of Over Top, are iconic for the platform. At least 6 are absolute bangers if you ask me. If you're looking and thinking "Eh... Metal Slug again?" I think you're good to just move on and forget about it instead of trying to dig for reasons to be convinced.

I've owned 3 SNk machines in the past, own 8 mvs games and a 1 slot with 2 AES joystick right now but no way to use it. I wouldn't say I don't like the neo geo. I have 4 large original marquees framed in my house walls. Trying to understand appeal of others doesn't mean I don't like it. If I bought this unit I'd get pulstar, metal slug and the shock troopers. I've never played the fighters as I preferred street fighter. I want a neo geo experience but the footprint of it all seems costly to my real estate. Id have to move other stuff into storage. Plus I'm unemployed right now. It would be harder for me to resist blazing star, viewpoint and last resort. If I get a job I'll probably get it.

A slot adapter for MVS would be really helpful

[SavagePencil]

Given Furrtek’s involvement, I would expect his adaptor would work for MVS -> AES:

https://www.furrtek.org/shop/

[Bassa-Bassa]

Over Top is great, just a bit ugly. Kind of like KOF 2002's issue. In fact, other that 2002, I think their selection is fine. They even threw in a non-AES game which was always due.

[orange808]

Especially with the rise of low-cost Chinese FPGA vendors like GOWIN. But yeah, that's a lot of level translators.

Apologies, because I'm out of the loop. Has Gowin improved their manufacturing and quality control? I still have one in a drawer that flakes out when the gates fill up. At least at the time, odd gotcha bugs and problems were fairly common with them.

[bobrocks95]

I've owned 3 SNk machines in the past, own 8 mvs games and a 1 slot with 2 AES joystick right now but no way to use it. I wouldn't say I don't like the neo geo. I have 4 large original marquees framed in my house walls. Trying to understand appeal of others doesn't mean I don't like it. If I bought this unit I'd get pulstar, metal slug and the shock troopers. I've never played the fighters as I preferred street fighter. I want a neo geo experience but the footprint of it all seems costly to my real estate. Id have to move other stuff into storage. Plus I'm unemployed right now. It would be harder for me to resist blazing star, viewpoint and last resort. If I get a job I'll probably get it.

A slot adapter for MVS would be really helpful

Sorry if I came across as aggressive or anything. I agree it's definitely still in the realm of niche luxury good and pricey, and it's a big ask if you're in for 3 out of 10 titles and don't have or intend to get other AES or MVS games and a converter. I myself will be in for a big surprise when I actually receive it and try to figure out how to cram it into my gaming center which is full to bursting as it is. It's definitely a hell of a lot wider than my consolized MVS and isn't going to be able to replace it on its shelf.

[neorichieb1971]

I've owned 3 SNk machines in the past, own 8 mvs games and a 1 slot with 2 AES joystick right now but no way to use it. I wouldn't say I don't like the neo geo. I have 4 large original marquees framed in my house walls. Trying to understand appeal of others doesn't mean I don't like it. If I bought this unit I'd get pulstar, metal slug and the shock troopers. I've never played the fighters as I preferred street fighter. I want a neo geo experience but the footprint of it all seems costly to my real estate. Id have to move other stuff into storage. Plus I'm unemployed right now. It would be harder for me to resist blazing star, viewpoint and last resort. If I get a job I'll probably get it.

A slot adapter for MVS would be really helpful

Sorry if I came across as aggressive or anything. I agree it's definitely still in the realm of niche luxury good and pricey, and it's a big ask if you're in for 3 out of 10 titles and don't have or intend to get other AES or MVS games and a converter. I myself will be in for a big surprise when I actually receive it and try to figure out how to cram it into my gaming center which is full to bursting as it is. It's definitely a hell of a lot wider than my consolized MVS and isn't going to be able to replace it on its shelf.

You did jar me a bit, go easy on folk some of us are unemployed and wondering what the world is coming to . Yeah space. The AES design demands a plateau on which to sit with its hefty foot print, top loading design with a huge cartridge sticking out of it with 2 big joysticks attached (or wireless in this case). Its not something that is easy to stack if something is above it because it needs headroom. The top shelf of my living room stack has a vertical PS5 on it due to its extreme beastly presence I had nowhere else to put it.

I used to live in Mayfield KY, many moons ago.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I've owned 3 SNk machines in the past, own 8 mvs games and a 1 slot with 2 AES joystick right now but no way to use it. I wouldn't say I don't like the neo geo. I have 4 large original marquees framed in my house walls. Trying to understand appeal of others doesn't mean I don't like it. If I bought this unit I'd get pulstar, metal slug and the shock troopers. I've never played the fighters as I preferred street fighter. I want a neo geo experience but the footprint of it all seems costly to my real estate. Id have to move other stuff into storage. Plus I'm unemployed right now. It would be harder for me to resist blazing star, viewpoint and last resort. If I get a job I'll probably get it.

A slot adapter for MVS would be really helpful

Sorry if I came across as aggressive or anything. I agree it's definitely still in the realm of niche luxury good and pricey, and it's a big ask if you're in for 3 out of 10 titles and don't have or intend to get other AES or MVS games and a converter. I myself will be in for a big surprise when I actually receive it and try to figure out how to cram it into my gaming center which is full to bursting as it is. It's definitely a hell of a lot wider than my consolized MVS and isn't going to be able to replace it on its shelf.

You did jar me a bit, go easy on folk some of us are unemployed and wondering what the world is coming to . Yeah space. The AES design demands a plateau on which to sit with its hefty foot print, top loading design with a huge cartridge sticking out of it with 2 big joysticks attached (or wireless in this case). Its not something that is easy to stack if something is above it because it needs headroom. The top shelf of my living room stack has a vertical PS5 on it due to its extreme beastly presence I had nowhere else to put it.

I used to live in Mayfield KY, many moons ago.

Yes, the original Sony "Fat" Playstation 5 console circa 2020 is quite a behemoth of a beast, space-wise, it's bigger than NEC's SuperGrafx console quite easily. I have it placed on a platform shelf by itself laid horizontally as not to impede it's crucial & necessary airflow for adequate cooling purposes when powered up/booted up.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[azmun]

What I'm asking is obviously not if anyone cares whether it's emulation. But whether anyone cares about whether the exact same IC schematics that were used in the original AES runs are being reused for this.

Umm, can you separate these two ideas? Assuming the original hardware architecture would have another production run, there would be no need for tricky language and we would have the real deal. I would jump the gun and join the bandwagon. As it stands, I'll settle and be content with my consolized mvs.