NeoGeo fans rejoice

[Creamy Goodness]

For those who ever wanted to have a NeoGeo AES, but found it prohibitively expensive, you now have a new option available. The NeoGeo+ is a new release of the console and it is true hardware. No emulation including FPGA. It is just the console with rereleases of 10 games. My wife would kill me if I brought another console in the house, but ngl it is tempting.

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2026 ... ic-console

[Steven]

This had better not be limited to 1080p. I guess even if it is one could go through the annoyance of using its analog output with a scaler and hoping that its odd refresh rate doesn't cause compatibility problems on this new model like it does on the original. I was never able to fully get rid of the jailbars on my 3-6, so I might be tempted since this supposedly isn't an emulator.

Also yay, non-bootleg AES Neo Turf Masters and Metal Slug are affordable now, and AES Shock Troopers officially exists now.

[Josh128]

This seems like an April fools joke. Like how can they recoup the investment needed for something like this? I'd be shocked if it actually launches.

[Creamy Goodness]

This seems like an April fools joke. Like how can they recoup the investment needed for something like this? I'd be shocked if it actually launches.

I was thinking this myself to a degree. From what I gather manufacturing old computer components can be way more expensive than manufacturing modern components. I wonder if this is some kind of bridge between FPGA and actual hardware. Like if you were to truly dive into the components there is more emulation than they are letting on. I'd imagine the games are real though since repros made to the specs of the original cartridges have been done before.

[Steven]

Regarding that, I'm moderately curious about where they sourced the 68000s from. The Z80 was finally discontinued fairly recently, so there might still be sufficient new stock, but the 68000 died millions of years ago. Someone's probably still making them unofficially, but I'm still slightly interested in knowing.

Oh, wait, it seems they are actually making new 68000s just for this...? That's... unexpected. Wouldn't it be easier (logistically, at least) to just use an FPGA? Yes, the whole point is to NOT do that, but...

[Emerl]

Wouldn't it be easier (logistically, at least) to just use an FPGA? Yes, the whole point is to NOT do that, but...

ASICs have two advantages over FPGA: Lower power consumption and lower cost (eventually, once the engineering cost has been recouped). The disadvantage is that you better make it perfect the first time because you can't patch it like you could an FPGA.

As to why they chose it? Haven't a clue. Since it's not a portable device, the difference in power consumption won't be meaningful. As far as cost, I wouldn't GUESS that the volume wouldn't make the savings after engineering of an ASIC worth it. Maybe they expect to sell way more than I expect them to? Or maybe someone had already made a repro 68k that they could license for cheap, along with NOS Zilogs

[BazookaBen]

I'd love to see a technical breakdown on this.

Like, did they actually design a die-shrunk neo geo chip that can be manufactured in newer fabs? Or did they use some older fab that is still running?

It almost seems too good to be true.

[ryu]

Huh. I always thought old hardware was unreproducible because these systems usually also had custom chips (usually for graphics) that nobody today has the means to produce on their PCBs

[BazookaBen]

Huh. I always thought old hardware was unreproducible because these systems usually also had custom chips (usually for graphics) that nobody today has the means to produce on their PCBs

Theoretically, if SNK gave Plaion the original schematics from 1989 or whatever, Plaion could basically do a die shrink? Or reproduce it 1:1 on any existing fabs that still produce chips on the ~1um node?

But I have to imagine that both of those solutions would be incredibly expensive, no? That's why I'm confused a bit suspicious (though I'm very happy if I'm wrong)

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The original Neo-Geo AES arcade stick uses a Seimitsu super short-throw joystick setup indeed.

Makes me wonder if the replica AES+ arcade stick uses a clone of the Seimitsu one found on the original AES arcade stick itself?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[TransatlanticFoe]

On one hand, it's pretty awesome that someone is resurrecting an actual old console.

On the other, it has the main drawback of the original console - expensive games - at a time when you can get the games for relative pennies elsewhere (3 Evercade collections at £20 a pop, a whole host of Switch compilations for £50ish imported, and the Arcade Archives line for a few quid per game).

[Emerl]

Huh. I always thought old hardware was unreproducible because these systems usually also had custom chips (usually for graphics) that nobody today has the means to produce on their PCBs

Theoretically, if SNK gave Plaion the original schematics from 1989 or whatever, Plaion could basically do a die shrink? Or reproduce it 1:1 on any existing fabs that still produce chips on the ~1um node?

But I have to imagine that both of those solutions would be incredibly expensive, no? That's why I'm confused a bit suspicious (though I'm very happy if I'm wrong)

SNK could give them the board schematics (not that it would be hard for a team to map it out from an existing console), but the schematics just tell you where the components are located and what connects to what and on which PCB layer. The difficult part is the design of the chips ON that schematic. SNK didn't produce the Zilog Z80 or the Motorola 68000, or the Yamaha sound chip, so they wouldn't by default have all of the information necessary to recreate every component. It's possible that that information is available to them, or to Plaion (I believe Furrtek decapped all the Neo Geo chips and uploaded gate-level scans, so they could have those to aid in recreation), but we don't know for sure how they're doing it at this point.

[Marc]

The one machine I wished I'd never sold. My mate keeps offering me his AES with three carts for a grand.
Apparently has an original video output socket.
Result.

[To Far Away Times]

This is so cool. The envy of every child back in the 90's. It looks like an authentic experience, right down to the expensive games.

[Emerl]

Furrtek has hinted on twitter that this is using his work to some extent, which is fantastic news and enough for me to preorder one.

[SuperDeadite]

Always wanted Overtop. As 3 grand for a 3 minute game was too much even when I was buying Neo. But I really want to know what is actually in those carts before I buy...

[brokenhalo]

Never had a Neo Geo, but always wanted one. Ordered. Plaion has been doing a really great job with the new Atari+ consoles and games, and working with that community to fix issues, make official releases of homebrew titles, and gather feedback on what people want. So I have high hopes that they'll do a fantastic job with this as well.

[Steven]

Wouldn't it be easier (logistically, at least) to just use an FPGA? Yes, the whole point is to NOT do that, but...

ASICs have two advantages over FPGA: Lower power consumption and lower cost (eventually, once the engineering cost has been recouped). The disadvantage is that you better make it perfect the first time because you can't patch it like you could an FPGA.

As to why they chose it? Haven't a clue. Since it's not a portable device, the difference in power consumption won't be meaningful. As far as cost, I wouldn't GUESS that the volume wouldn't make the savings after engineering of an ASIC worth it. Maybe they expect to sell way more than I expect them to? Or maybe someone had already made a repro 68k that they could license for cheap, along with NOS Zilogs

It's a strange choice, unless SNK was sitting on a pile of unused 68000s since the 90s, which I highly doubt. It doesn't take an especially expensive FPGA to make a Neo Geo, but if this is what they want to do, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

I'm also thinking about this in relation to making new Mega Drives. Something would have to be done about the YM2612/YM3438, but if it's possible to make new Neo Geos using real 68000s and Z80s, that's a decent chunk of what is needed to make new MDs, so...

Actually, maybe I need to not be half asleep when I think about this stuff, huh? If they're doing it all in an ASIC, that's a bit different. Maybe. Still seems unnecessary to not use an FPGA instead though.

Not really related to anything, but god damn the AES controller is one of the most uncomfortable controllers I have ever used due to that impossibly awkward angle of the buttons, and the buttons themselves are of terrible quality as well. I hate that controller so much. Hopefully they at least improve the cheap-feeling buttons for this. Fortunately, the CD controller is extremely comfortable and I love it! Until it eventually breaks down and you have to fix it, at least.

Also concerned about this "low latency" HDMI output or whatever. Numbers, please, every time. Also rather worried about the refresh rate oddness.

[R79]

Presumably they have struck some sort of licencing deal with the Saudis?

My mate keeps offering me his AES with three carts for a grand.

Which games though?

[Emerl]

Jotego has confirmed he's involved: "You may have seen Plaion's announcement of an ASIC based NeoGeo console. An ASIC is a chip, an application-specific integrated circuit. This is the first retro product I know of that is using making dedicated chips. It is so cool! By the way, I should mention I took a small role in that project. I helped in the design review and I also licensed some of the JT intellectual property for the project. I am looking forward to seeing the final product!"

NGdev said on twitter: "Wow, knowing the fellow NEOGEO enthusiast involved in the original FPGA HDL design for the ASIC we are in for high quality accuracy of the original hardware. Hopefully we can resurrect our AES cartridge production capabilities in time. Currently the outlook is good... - T"

Furrtek has implied on twitter (without stating directly) that he's involved.

[Josh128]

Just a suggestion, shouldnt this thread be moved to hardware forum?

[ryu]

Just a suggestion, shouldnt this thread be moved to hardware forum?

I think the hardware forum is more about repair, modding and DIY projects. This is about a new official console release

[Creamy Goodness]

Wouldn't it be easier (logistically, at least) to just use an FPGA? Yes, the whole point is to NOT do that, but...

ASICs have two advantages over FPGA: Lower power consumption and lower cost (eventually, once the engineering cost has been recouped). The disadvantage is that you better make it perfect the first time because you can't patch it like you could an FPGA.

As to why they chose it? Haven't a clue. Since it's not a portable device, the difference in power consumption won't be meaningful. As far as cost, I wouldn't GUESS that the volume wouldn't make the savings after engineering of an ASIC worth it. Maybe they expect to sell way more than I expect them to? Or maybe someone had already made a repro 68k that they could license for cheap, along with NOS Zilogs

It's a strange choice, unless SNK was sitting on a pile of unused 68000s since the 90s, which I highly doubt. It doesn't take an especially expensive FPGA to make a Neo Geo, but if this is what they want to do, it will be interesting to see how it turns out.

I'm also thinking about this in relation to making new Mega Drives. Something would have to be done about the YM2612/YM3438, but if it's possible to make new Neo Geos using real 68000s and Z80s, that's a decent chunk of what is needed to make new MDs, so...

Actually, maybe I need to not be half asleep when I think about this stuff, huh? If they're doing it all in an ASIC, that's a bit different. Maybe. Still seems unnecessary to not use an FPGA instead though.

Not really related to anything, but god damn the AES controller is one of the most uncomfortable controllers I have ever used due to that impossibly awkward angle of the buttons, and the buttons themselves are of terrible quality as well. I hate that controller so much. Hopefully they at least improve the cheap-feeling buttons for this. Fortunately, the CD controller is extremely comfortable and I love it! Until it eventually breaks down and you have to fix it, at least.

Also concerned about this "low latency" HDMI output or whatever. Numbers, please, every time. Also rather worried about the refresh rate oddness.

This is very tempting, but the controller is deal breaking for me. Usually where feasible I would do original hardware, but I feel like playing on this controller too long will guarantee a case of carpal tunnel. Whenever I play NeoGeo games these days I map the buttons as a square.

[Steven]

Try the CD controller. It's soooooooooooooo comfortable! Kinda sucks if you are playing a game where you need to mash or do simultaneous button presses though. But I guess the buttons on that are kind of in a square? Eh, try it, you might like it. I definitely do! 8BitDo made a modernized one, but I think the deadzone on it is much bigger than on my real Neo Geo CD controller and I don't like it as much.

[Sengoku Strider]

tbh when I owned a Neo Geo I found it terribly disappointing. It's a shockingly bare-bones experience for such a luxury product, especially compared to all the materials and extras Japanese PC game publishers were putting into their packages to justify high prices. AES games don't even get a pause function, never mind anything as exotic as a practice mode for a fighting game. Unless there's a decent amount of QOL in this product most people will be happier with the Hamster releases and a good arcade stick.

I applaud this sort of thing in general though. Synthesizer players were begging Japanese companies like Roland for decades to re-release authentic versions of older products like this until they finally relented, there's a ton of corporate resistance to that sort of thing there. I'm sure this Neo Geo will sell out and go down as a better regarded product than their previous SOC attempts.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Having bought the Plaion manufactured Atari 7800+ console that uses emulation to boot-up/run both 2600 & 7800 games (heck, it'll even run the both PAL format 2600 & NTSC format 7800 versions of Klax as well). To use the wireless Euro-styled 7800 gamepad with the included wireless dongle is quite something (in that there's no wires to deal with is "a plus in my book" nowadays). Plus the fact that thhe 7800+ console outputs in 720p via HDMI output presenting both 2600 & 7800 games in a whole new light indeed. The only issue is that the 7800+ won't work with an Uno multi-cart setup (but that's a minor issue/quibble at best). At least with an Atari 2600 Jr. console setup (with it's slightly better RF output compared to the original Atari VCS console setup), the Uno Cart works like a charm nevertheless.

It's awesome news to learn that Plaion is working on the newfangled Neo-Geo+ AES console.

Sure, I've delved into the Neo-Geo MVS side/spectrum of the arcade gaming hobby for many years with the cool MVS stg-based carts like Yumekobo's Blazing Star (that debuted in both Japan & the USA back in February of 1998 timeline), Psikyo's Strikers 1945 Plus, the MVS repro cart of Ironclad/Brinknger, Aero Fighters 2, Aero Fighters 3, Metal Slug, Metal Slug 2, Metal Slug X, Metal Slug 3, Metal Slug 4, Metal Slug 5, etc. worth their "weight in gold" in terms of gameplay and game graphics.

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There was a time when the usual going rate for a "barebones" MVS cart of Blazing Star in used condition was selling for $44.00 usd on the secondary arcade gamer collector's market -- but those days are "long gone."
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I suppose an MVS to AES cart adapter would work just fine with this upcoming newfangled Neo-Geo+ AES console release.

I'm surprised that Plaion decided to go with Pulstar and not Blazing Star instead (as it's held in high-regard amongst the retro arcade stg crowd with a proper Japanese candy cab and/or a portable supergun setup these days).

You can buy a brand new 3rd-party Neo-Geo AES/MVS/CD arcade stick nowadays that doesn't conform to the original AES arcade stick parameters: https://www.ebay.com/itm/265676133431?_ ... 101224.m-1

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Bassa-Bassa]

tbh when I owned a Neo Geo I found it terribly disappointing. It's a shockingly bare-bones experience for such a luxury product, especially compared to all the materials and extras Japanese PC game publishers were putting into their packages to justify high prices. AES games don't even get a pause function, never mind anything as exotic as a practice mode for a fighting game.

It was long ago, but I don't remember any of my AES games lacking a pause function? Select button, was it.

Unless there's a decent amount of QOL in this product most people will be happier with the Hamster releases and a good arcade stick.

I'm totally sceptic with this release but I don't think it's aimed at "most people". I mean, it's getting even analog video out.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For those of you residing in the USA, Plaion will ship the Neo-Geo+ AES consoles within the USA for a nominal and modest $19.99 usd fee: https://plaionreplai.us/pages/shipping-neogeo

From looking at the Atari 7800+ manual, Plaion is based out of California to begin with -- so no worries in the shipping department indeed.

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With the dedicated A/V port on the backside of the Neo-Geo+ AES, it seems likely that it'll support the usual old-standbys of RCA Composite Video, S-Video and JPN 21-pin RGB/Euro Scart outputs (thus making it quite versatile to hook up to an old-school CRT-based TV, Amiga 1080 RGB monitor or PVM type of monitor for best visuals retro-style).
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PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[ave]

Has anyone figured out if there is a way to order the Japanese game versions directly without blowing money by having this shipped to Japan first and then to the US through a proxy like Buyee?

[Steven]

tbh when I owned a Neo Geo I found it terribly disappointing. It's a shockingly bare-bones experience for such a luxury product, especially compared to all the materials and extras Japanese PC game publishers were putting into their packages to justify high prices. AES games don't even get a pause function, never mind anything as exotic as a practice mode for a fighting game.

It was long ago, but I don't remember any of my AES games lacking a pause function? Select button, was it.

It is indeed the select button.

While I'm here I'm also going to mention that (most?) early AES games don't have practice modes or anything like that, but later AES games do and I think these later games are straight-up superior to the MVS versions, as long as you're okay with the credit limit on the AES. Arcade purists will probably hate that opinion, but I don't care lol. I have AES Garou: Mark of the Wolves and KOF '98 and both have a training mode and all of that. The MVS and AES ROMs are identical in most cases anyway, and there are ways to run the AES in MVS mode if you really want to do that, although you don't get much out of that beyond infinite credits and the ability to have all 8 characters in Shock Troopers.

I'm totally sceptic with this release but I don't think it's aimed at "most people". I mean, it's getting even analog video out.

Now watch its analog video output be only composite lol

I hope the RGB out on this is good, especially because I am hesitant about the HDMI output without further details. If it is good, good bye 3-6, you're getting retired~