21st Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time - Results

[Steven]

Batsugun is indeed one of Toaplan's absolute worst games. It's better than Twin Cobra (not Kyuukyoku Tiger; that game's god-tier and one of the best games ever made in any genre. Twin Cobra sucks though, and is worse than Batsugun), Ghox and Knuckle Bash, and I'll take it over Snow Bros 1 and 2 and probably 2P Hellfire, and also Mahjong Sisters because I don't know how to play mahjong, but that's about it. Also never played Twin Hawk, but I heard it sucks. Daisenpuu, however, is pretty cool. Zero Wing is a toss-up. Some days I love Zero Wing, but on others I don't even want to think about it.

It's not a bad game and I would definitely classify it as okay, but it's nowhere near as good as the games that came before it. Please nobody ask me about Batsugun. I REALLY don't want to have to put in the effort to type all of the weaknesses of this game for the millionth time because I am super lazy lol

[Lemnear]

The M.Knight tactical voting worked!!! Amazing. I guess we'll see how close it was later.

I'm intrigued by that suggestion to do an 80s games only/90s games only poll in the future. Or maybe instead of decades, finding an agreeable cutoff based on hardware or something. Wondering how much perceptions would change when games are stuck in the context of their own era.

The impression is that there are many protest votes, as if to point out that more M2 ShotTriggers are neeeded.
However, I think that many people started from DOJ to end up on the original DDP at this point.
I don't know, I have the impression that in some cases the votes have been forced to see them appear up there, or that there is a certain "boredom" of the titles that have been excessively emblazoned over the years. I remain of the opinion however that ProGear is not the best horizontal shmups made by CAVE.

I wouldn't think too hard about it. These polls are always dependent on who feels like bothering to vote that year, it can effectively just be random, or heavily swayed by a fad. You would have to do a meta-study of all the polls to get sensible conclusions about them.

Well, there's an important question to ask.
Do you vote for what you like, or what you think is worthy of being on the list?
Because most of the games in the TOP 25 are all games that have left their mark on the genre, absolute and undeniable milestones, it's hard to argue with many of them. Then there are some titles that seem to have forced their way in.
It's worth noting, however, that the "Honorable Mentions" have been almost the same as always! With 19XX, Blazing Star, Akai Katana, GG Aleste 3, and Under Defeat always present but never breaking into the TOP 25.
So why don't they ever change, or even change their order much, while the TOP 25 contains literally new names? Like Sorcerer Striker, or Thunder Dragon 2, which was a perennial "Honorable Mention." Or... where did Eschatos go? Last time it was in the TOP25 and this year it's not even on the radar, for example.

[Whiskers]

No love for 2hu this year, huh? Understandable, but still very sad.

Well, there's an important question to ask.
Do you vote for what you like, or what you think is worthy of being on the list?

For me, it’s a combination of both. I’d only vote for games that are A) I enjoy playing, and B) offer something that makes them stand out. Point A would take precedence over point B. For games that satisfy point B but not A, I listed them in HM.

AK Shin on steam

I did not know this was a thing. Fucking hell, what else did I miss?

[EmperorIng]

Thanks for once again doing this Nifty, if one last time. The final tally is slightly weirder than usual which is almost always a plus in my book.

As for voting: strategic voting has been the name of the game for a long time especially when your game isn't developed by cave or raizing - you just have to scrounge up the votes and bloc vote and hope for the best. Long before my time, Thunder Force III was on the top 25 so it's interesting to see how tastes change over time as different "generations" get into shmups. What hasn't changed is people's brain-dead love of the shitty DFK. Hey folks, just because you can 1all it in your sleep doesn't actually make it a good game, lol.

Mahou Daisakusen's inclusion can only be attributed to meme magic. Where are all these Mahou players? And why aren't they playing Dimahoo aka Dimashit? That game only got a half-serious, half-joking spot on the bottom of my ballot but it is the meatier and more interesting game in my opinion.

Re: Under Defeat - it actually was on the top 25 for a little while but I suppose it faded from view despite all the new excellent ports coming out. I feel like if people had a little bit more sense they'd pay more attention to G.Rev's output rather than praising (and glazing) cave titles they've never 1cc'd They're about as fun and accessible as "modern" shooters can be. I always feel like it's hard to pick just one because I think I like Strania more but Under Defeat always had a better chance of actually making the list.

I am always glad to see some other companies muscle their way on to the list. Though I can only imagine NMK might not have made the cut with a few more dozen votes to dilute the ballots! Though I feel the only true outliers on the bottom half of the list itself are Thunder Dragon 2, Mahou, Gradius Gaiden and Cho Ren Sha - all occupying the vary bottom slots!

[eksratu]

The M.Knight tactical voting worked!!! Amazing. I guess we'll see how close it was later.

I'm intrigued by that suggestion to do an 80s games only/90s games only poll in the future. Or maybe instead of decades, finding an agreeable cutoff based on hardware or something. Wondering how much perceptions would change when games are stuck in the context of their own era.

The impression is that there are many protest votes, as if to point out that more M2 ShotTriggers are neeeded.
However, I think that many people started from DOJ to end up on the original DDP at this point.
I don't know, I have the impression that in some cases the votes have been forced to see them appear up there, or that there is a certain "boredom" of the titles that have been excessively emblazoned over the years. I remain of the opinion however that ProGear is not the best horizontal shmups made by CAVE.

I wouldn't think too hard about it. These polls are always dependent on who feels like bothering to vote that year, it can effectively just be random, or heavily swayed by a fad. You would have to do a meta-study of all the polls to get sensible conclusions about them.

Well, there's an important question to ask.
Do you vote for what you like, or what you think is worthy of being on the list?
Because most of the games in the TOP 25 are all games that have left their mark on the genre, absolute and undeniable milestones, it's hard to argue with many of them. Then there are some titles that seem to have forced their way in.
It's worth noting, however, that the "Honorable Mentions" have been almost the same as always! With 19XX, Blazing Star, Akai Katana, GG Aleste 3, and Under Defeat always present but never breaking into the TOP 25.
So why don't they ever change, or even change their order much, while the TOP 25 contains literally new names? Like Sorcerer Striker, or Thunder Dragon 2, which was a perennial "Honorable Mention." Or... where did Eschatos go? Last time it was in the TOP25 and this year it's not even on the radar, for example.

I think the discrepancy in the stability of HMs vs Top 25 comes from the fact that these are two separate pools. You can't vote for a game in both categories, and if a game wins a Top 25 slot, it's (afaik) no longer eligible for an HM spot. So, a lot of games that people wouldn't put in their HM votes because the games are good enough for their Top 25 vote will fluctuate between being in a Top 25 spot in the actual results and being completely absent (like Eschatos). A "worse game" that maybe ranks in the 30-50th best shmup would be far more likely to show up on a lot of HM votes than Eschatos and thus much more likely to actually get an HM spot.

[Lethe]

That's not how it works - HMs are everything from #26 down to whatever got half of #25's score, however many games that takes. More games on the HMs list indicates more competition for the #25 spot.
[0]s contribute the minimum possible to a game's score without watering down your other votes. They're rolled up into the total just like normal.

What we learn from Mahou Daisakusen suddenly appearing is that averages are a nonsense metric, especially when individual participation is sporadic. Honestly, the crude weighting-per-game thing I did some years ago is more informative - providing you understand that it's only showing how much weight people tend to give games irrespective of their popularity, and don't try to make conclusions beyond that.

[Some-Mist]

It’s honestly just a fun exercise to be part of, so I’m really glad Nifty has put in the effort over the years to highlight everyone's unique preferences. I’m happy we got another year of this. I loved poring over the individual lists and the final results. When it comes to my own picks, I find it much easier to include games I constantly revisit and have cleared multiple times. It’s hard to justify a spot for something like DOJ when I find the scoring so frustrating, even if I totally understand why it’s a staple for others. Personal lists based on what people actually enjoy are far more interesting than a bunch of identical rankings based on "objective" design. Plus, the collective results are a fantastic way to discover (or rediscover) games you haven’t sunk as much time into as the rest of the group, as are the honorable mentions which I've found people find just as valuable if not more.

also

What hasn't changed is people's brain-dead love of the shitty DFK. Hey folks, just because you can 1all it in your sleep doesn't actually make it a good game, lol.

Mahou Daisakusen's inclusion can only be attributed to meme magic. Where are all these Mahou players? And why aren't they playing Dimahoo aka Dimashit? That game only got a half-serious, half-joking spot on the bottom of my ballot but it is the meatier and more interesting game in my opinion.

I got a good chuckle. I don't disagree but part of my excitement is there was a point in time years ago where I was enamored by the DFK arrange modes and I believe included it in my list. I revisited mahou daisakusen earlier this year and had a lot of fun with it, but it didn't make the cut for me and I prefer dimahoo too.

[jehu]

I concur that Batsugun is unworthy - especially as Toaplan’s best. A shame but not a surprise. The community’s taste for games made before 1995 leaves much to be desired. Who could have predicted that the usual slate of bullet hells would have a mandate again this year? Many of the voters who could have added a little seasoning to the list are conspicuously absent. I can’t imagine why. I guess creating and recreating a virtually identical list for over two decades finally lost its novelty. The community could use one or two tastemakers with a little more imagination. Oh well, I can’t say I’m guiltless myself - more to blame than I’d like to admit, to be honest. Nifty’s a golden god for putting this all together so many times, but I can’t muster shock and awe because the same few Cave games rose or fell a few positions this year.

Bye bye to Eschatos, a mid game with a fun soundtrack. Adeu to Thunder Force III, a game with the same qualifiers. Deep down, I suspect even the fans know this. Both failed to place, for great justice. Happy to see ZeroRanger miss, too - a game of greater scale but of no greater caliber. I want a broader range of games on the list - but not like this.

If the perennial top four are Garegga, DOJ, Futari and Ketsui - at least the best man among them won.

And I’m quite pleased Thunder Dragon 2 slipped in the top 25. The incredulity about its placement gave me a laugh, too. A conspiracy of insincere insurgents forced its placement on the list. They paid us to do it. If it feels like just your average boat-tank-plane, or if the bullets hurt your sensitive little eyes, probably best to leave the game to others.

[Steven]

I'm just sad that so few people like Kaitei Daisensou, one of the coolest and most unique games ever. Please play Kaitei Daisensou. It's so good. Aside from the slowdown, anyway. The slowdown in this game is appalling at times. Other than that it's excellent and I've never seen another game like it... except for Steel Diver and that's not that great.

Because most of the games in the TOP 25 are all games that have left their mark on the genre, absolute and undeniable milestones, it's hard to argue with many of them.

I don't know, I think it's pretty easy to argue with a lot of them. Like what did Mushihimesama do to further the genre? I genuinely have no idea because I am unfamiliar with the game, having only played it briefly. Same for its sequel, which I have played even less. Daioujou, as I said before, is just DDP but with hyper and that's not new because Thunder Force V had a (significantly more interesting) hyper thing half a decade prior, and there is probably something that had it before that did too. I could go on, but I'm lazy and you get the point lol

If you're actually considering only legitimately important games, Space Invaders automatically gets the top spot. This is indisputable. It should honestly have the top spot right now anyway.

After that, Defender, Xevious, Gradius, and a few other things are also pretty important and go right after Space Invaders. I'd also argue that Zero Wing should be on there somewhere, probably near the bottom, just because of the memes, even though most people that know the memes don't know about Zero Wing itself. I think it's the only game in the genre that is culturally relevant outside of people that play these games, except for of course Space Invaders.

Where are all these Mahou players? And why aren't they playing Dimahoo aka Dimashit?

Oh hi that's me. I play Mahou Daisakusen. Very badly, as I normally don't make it past the stage 2 boss, but I do play it once every few months. Cool game. Don't play Great Mahou Daisakusen because no ShotTriggers version and the PCB is pretty expensive. I did find one at Surugaya on Wednesday, though, sitting right next to a Garegga PCB.

[eksratu]

That's not how it works - HMs are everything from #26 down to whatever got half of #25's score, however many games that takes. More games on the HMs list indicates more competition for the #25 spot.
[0]s contribute the minimum possible to a game's score without watering down your other votes. They're rolled up into the total just like normal.

What we learn from Mahou Daisakusen suddenly appearing is that averages are a nonsense metric, especially when individual participation is sporadic. Honestly, the crude weighting-per-game thing I did some years ago is more informative - providing you understand that it's only showing how much weight people tend to give games irrespective of their popularity, and don't try to make conclusions beyond that.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. In that case, the stability of the HM titles IS super weird. And where did games like Eschatos or Imperishable Night go?

Like what did Mushihimesama do to further the genre?

Mushi 1 has the most polished versions of the aspects of shmups that I appreciate/enjoy. Combine that with the sentimental value of being the game that finally sold me on the idea of learning to 1cc shmups, and it'll be my personal #1 for a long time. I'd never argue that it pushed the envelope or innovated the most of any shmup or anything like that, but if we're ranking by impact, there's also a lot of value to being accessible, bringing new people into the genre, and leaving a memory/shaping one's taste.

[mycophobia]

the genre can't really go any farther than ddp imo, so mushihimesama didn't really do anything to further the genre. it's just a really, really, really, really cool game. stage 3! stage 3 is like the best shmup stage of all time!

[Whiskers]

What hasn't changed is people's brain-dead love of the shitty DFK.

Harsh.

I would say DFK is far from being Cave’s best title, even among the CV1K generation. Yet I don’t think it belongs in the bottom tier, either. It’s a mid. A so-so game that you can pick up if you don’t have anything better to play.

I'm just sad that so few people like Kaitei Daisensou, one of the coolest and most unique games ever. Please play Kaitei Daisensou. It's so good. Aside from the slowdown, anyway.

Is it unique? Sure, I’d say so. But I’ve always found it excruciatingly painful to play. And as I said before, my enjoyment of playing the game always takes precedence over the game’s uniqueness. The latter is more of a secondary metric when I’m grading these shmups. Although I could've put it in HM, thinking about it.

[Faith]

Plus, the collective results are a fantastic way to discover (or rediscover) games you haven’t sunk as much time into as the rest of the group, as are the honorable mentions which I've found people find just as valuable if not more.

Yes O_O! For me, this is big part of why I love this! It was super interesting to see other player how they vote, and... if I see they rate a game high that I also like, I will look at other games to see what common things we share and make new discoveries! There is so much! Like for Mahou Daisakusen... had heard of it before and saw some pictures... but somehow... never really cared to go look at 1CC video, to see if will like. But yesterday, I watched a run... and really hope to soon find easy way to play it!!~

What hasn't changed is people's brain-dead love of the shitty DFK. Hey folks, just because you can 1all it in your sleep doesn't actually make it a good game, lol.

Hahaha! A bit mean to say it that way, but I understand. Actually, for me... DFK took very, very long time to warm up to >.<!~

But... with time... and finding the right mode (Black Label & Black Label Arrange, really) found new appreciation for it and the depth of many parts of the game! Especially when doing Ura route, there is a certain pace and action of the game which is quite addicting! But honestly... if we wanted to argue "easy clear = easy vote" I think my favorite STG ever Crimzon Clover can also suffer from same problem lol because almost everyone play on Novice... and I really think (for me, personal opinion, lol) it sells the game "a bit" short? The true greatness of Crimzon Clover really is in Arcade difficulty, and when pushing score. But same can be said about many STG. Sometimes... it is only when you start to push and play higher level... that you really see... what makes something ultra great. Like... you start to see more, why things happen a certain way, why enemies come at a certain time, from a certain spot. Like with the super precise DDP chains! But everyone sees (and... votes) many different things!

So... at the end... we need to admit that expert player and novice player still have same vote strength... because while expert player see all the super precise parts of a great STG... novice player will see what catches their eye... what makes them want to come to game after long day at work... relax... so on. And the more people a game attract... it is its goal, right?

[Lemnear]

I don't know, I think it's pretty easy to argue with a lot of them. Like what did Mushihimesama do to further the genre? I genuinely have no idea because I am unfamiliar with the game, having only played it briefly. Same for its sequel, which I have played even less. Daioujou, as I said before, is just DDP but with hyper and that's not new because Thunder Force V had a (significantly more interesting) hyper thing half a decade prior, and there is probably something that had it before that did too. I could go on, but I'm lazy and you get the point lol

If you're actually considering only legitimately important games, Space Invaders automatically gets the top spot. This is indisputable. It should honestly have the top spot right now anyway.

After that, Defender, Xevious, Gradius, and a few other things are also pretty important and go right after Space Invaders. I'd also argue that Zero Wing should be on there somewhere, probably near the bottom, just because of the memes, even though most people that know the memes don't know about Zero Wing itself. I think it's the only game in the genre that is culturally relevant outside of people that play these games, except for of course Space Invaders.

I didn't vote for Mushihimesama because I haven't played it; I don't know what sets it apart from DDP/Ketsui.
I can honestly understand why more recent iterations were chosen over their ancestral versions; it's much easier to vote for a RayForce than a Xevious in the end.
You know very well that yours is an exaggeration, though; it's like saying the best cars of all time are those from the early 1900s.
Very often, history isn't made by those who got there first, but by those who got there highest.

the genre can't really go any farther than ddp imo, so mushihimesama didn't really do anything to further the genre. it's just a really, really, really, really cool game. stage 3! stage 3 is like the best shmup stage of all time!

I've said this before, and I think there are some unexplored avenues, like something like R-Type. It always gave me the idea of ​​something that could evolve much, much more than what's been done so far. Having that almost "platform" element honestly allows for endless solutions.

What hasn't changed is people's brain-dead love of the shitty DFK. Hey folks, just because you can 1all it in your sleep doesn't actually make it a good game, lol.

Finally someone said it!

So... at the end... we need to admit that expert player and novice player still have same vote strength... because while expert player see all the super precise parts of a great STG... novice player will see what catches their eye... what makes them want to come to game after long day at work... relax... so on. And the more people a game attract... it is its goal, right?

I say that every vote should be worth the same, because if we give more weight to the super pros on the forum, we'd be overlooking the entry-level players that the genre requires anyway. In short, we can't be too elitist and snobbish, unless we want to retreat into a hermetic gaming world that's incomprehensible to others.

[To Far Away Times]

the genre can't really go any farther than ddp imo, so mushihimesama didn't really do anything to further the genre. it's just a really, really, really, really cool game. stage 3! stage 3 is like the best shmup stage of all time!

The stages that follow it are pretty special too, imo. It's a shame the first two stages are kinda average and look somewhat samey. Because everything after that is some of the best of what the genre offers.

One thing I like about Mushi is how good it feels to play relative to most other shmups, or even other CAVE shmups for that matter. On original mode it walks a very fine line between bullet hell and more old school fast bullet manic shmup design and I think that's a very comfy experience where you can do things on reaction and things feel very fair. Routing and memorization helps of course, but never feels mandatory.

The Mushi series may also very well have the best audio/visual direction in the entire genre, and the original Mushihimesama is more consistent in it's execution of those themes than it's (also excellent) sequel.

[Some-Mist]

So... at the end... we need to admit that expert player and novice player still have same vote strength... because while expert player see all the super precise parts of a great STG... novice player will see what catches their eye... what makes them want to come to game after long day at work... relax... so on. And the more people a game attract... it is its goal, right?

I say that every vote should be worth the same, because if we give more weight to the super pros on the forum, we'd be overlooking the entry-level players that the genre requires anyway. In short, we can't be too elitist and snobbish, unless we want to retreat into a hermetic gaming world that's incomprehensible to others.

Technically speaking, based on the background guidance for voting that’s been consistent (outside of the number of games), entry level players shouldn’t be voting. This year the guidance stated that to have a proper foundation for voting, you should have a good understanding of 66 (half) of the prior years top 25/honorable mentions, which if you meet the criteria I would say you wouldn’t necessarily be considered entry level for the genre

[To Far Away Times]

Bye bye to Eschatos, a mid game with a fun soundtrack. Adeu to Thunder Force III, a game with the same qualifiers. Deep down, I suspect even the fans know this. Both failed to place, for great justice. Happy to see ZeroRanger miss, too - a game of greater scale but of no greater caliber.

[Lethe]

And I’m quite pleased Thunder Dragon 2 slipped in the top 25. The incredulity about its placement gave me a laugh, too. A conspiracy of insincere insurgents forced its placement on the list. They paid us to do it. If it feels like just your average boat-tank-plane, or if the bullets hurt your sensitive little eyes, probably best to leave the game to others.

did u beat it yet

[jehu]

And I’m quite pleased Thunder Dragon 2 slipped in the top 25. The incredulity about its placement gave me a laugh, too. A conspiracy of insincere insurgents forced its placement on the list. They paid us to do it. If it feels like just your average boat-tank-plane, or if the bullets hurt your sensitive little eyes, probably best to leave the game to others.

did u beat it yet

tank u for askin- i still haven’t seen past th second boss but i herd he was stronger then some of the other ones so basically i been further

[ACE1CC]

Thank you Nifty!!!

Mushihimesama at Number 2 though? Very cool. Surprised it's above its sequel.

I wonder if that's because its more easily accessible to play since its on Switch and PC. Futari still doesn't have a PC release AFAIK.

I also wonder how much these lists would change depending on how easily one could play a title. I've noticed that whenever a more difficult to find shmup (say its last release was a Japan only PS2 port) got a recent multiplatform release, it tended to move up higher in the all time results. Imagine if Ibara finally got an M2 multiplatform release, would that be on the list and be higher up?

[Lemnear]

So... at the end... we need to admit that expert player and novice player still have same vote strength... because while expert player see all the super precise parts of a great STG... novice player will see what catches their eye... what makes them want to come to game after long day at work... relax... so on. And the more people a game attract... it is its goal, right?

I say that every vote should be worth the same, because if we give more weight to the super pros on the forum, we'd be overlooking the entry-level players that the genre requires anyway. In short, we can't be too elitist and snobbish, unless we want to retreat into a hermetic gaming world that's incomprehensible to others.

Technically speaking, based on the background guidance for voting that’s been consistent (outside of the number of games), entry level players shouldn’t be voting. This year the guidance stated that to have a proper foundation for voting, you should have a good understanding of 66 (half) of the prior years top 25/honorable mentions, which if you meet the criteria I would say you wouldn’t necessarily be considered entry level for the genre

Well, you have to at least have played the things you're voting for, but in many cases it's a bit difficult, because some games are difficult to access. For example, how many can afford to vote for Aka & Blue Type-R? Or anything that doesn't run well on MAME without having to tinker a lot.

[To Far Away Times]

I was kicking around on here when DOJ/Ketsui/Espgaluda finally got emulated. That was a big deal back then. That lead to a huge influx of votes as to be expected.

[Some-Mist]

I say that every vote should be worth the same, because if we give more weight to the super pros on the forum, we'd be overlooking the entry-level players that the genre requires anyway. In short, we can't be too elitist and snobbish, unless we want to retreat into a hermetic gaming world that's incomprehensible to others.

Technically speaking, based on the background guidance for voting that’s been consistent (outside of the number of games), entry level players shouldn’t be voting. This year the guidance stated that to have a proper foundation for voting, you should have a good understanding of 66 (half) of the prior years top 25/honorable mentions, which if you meet the criteria I would say you wouldn’t necessarily be considered entry level for the genre

Well, you have to at least have played the things you're voting for, but in many cases it's a bit difficult, because some games are difficult to access. For example, how many can afford to vote for Aka & Blue Type-R? Or anything that doesn't run well on MAME without having to tinker a lot.

I get your point, but aka & blue type-r isn't one of the 132 games that it's recommended that you've played (a reasonable understanding of their general style of design, how they control, how the scoring might work, or even the factors that contribute(d) to them being classically well-regarded) 66 of to have a strong enough foundation to participate in the voting

the list

Spoiler

All Past Top 25 Games (65 total)
Akai Katana
Armed Police Batrider
Axelay
Batsugun
Battle Bakraid
Battle Garegga
Border Down
Cho Ren Sha 68K
Crimzon Clover / World Ignition
Dangun Feveron
Darius Burst: Another Chronicle / EX / Chronicle Saviours
Darius Gaiden
Deathsmiles
DoDonPachi
DoDonPachi Dai-Fukkatsu 1.5
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou
DonPachi
Dragon Blaze
Einhänder
Eschatos
ESPGaluda
ESPGaluda II
ESP Ra.De.
Flying Shark / Hishouzame
G-Darius
Gate of Thunder
Giga Wing
Gradius III (SNES)
Gradius Gaiden
Gradius V
Gunbird
Gunbird 2
Gunhed / Blazing Lazers
Guwange
Ibara
Ikaruga
Ketsui
Mars Matrix
Muchi Much Pork!
MUSHA Aleste
Mushihimesama
Mushihimesama Futari
Progear no Arashi
Radiant Silvergun
Raiden DX
Raiden Fighters Jet
RayForce / Layer Section / Gunlock / Galactic Attack
R-Type
R-Type Delta
Salamander / Life Force (ARC)
Sengoku Blade
Shikigami no Shiro II
Soldier Blade
Soukyugurentai
Strikers 1945 II
Thunder Dragon 2
Thunder Force III
Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force
Thunder Force V
Under Defeat
Winds of Thunder / Lords of Thunder
Zanac Neo
Zero Gunner 2
ZeroRanger


All Past Honorable-Mention-Only Games (67 total)
19XX: The War Against Destiny
Blazing Star
Blue Revolver
Blue Wish Resurrection / Plus
Cotton Rock 'n' Roll / Cotton Fantasy
Cyvern
Deathsmiles II
Dimahoo / Great Mahou Daisakusen
DoDonPachi Dai-Fukkatsu Black Label
Dogyuun
Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
Fire Shark / Same! Same! Same!
Flame Zapper Kotsujin
Gaiares
Galaga
GG Aleste 3
Giga Wing 2
Ginga Force
Gokujou Parodius
Gradius / Nemesis
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou / Vulcan Venture
Great Fairy Wars
Gun.Smoke (ARC)
Hellfire
Hellsinker
Imperishable Night
Judgement Silversword
Kamui
Mahou Daisakusen / Sorcer Striker
Mecha Ritz / Steel Rondo
Metal Black
Mountain of Faith
Neko Navy
Out Zone
Parodius / Parodius-Da!
Parsec47
Perfect Cherry Blossom
Phantasmagoria of Dim. Dream
Phantasmagoria of Flower View
Pink Sweets
Psyvariar 2
Pulstar
Radirgy / Radio Allergy
Raiden
Raiden II
Raiden IV
Raiden Fighters 2: Operation Hell Dive
Recca
Rolling Gunner
R-Type III: The Third Lightning
R-Type Final
Salamander / Life Force (NES)
Salamander 2
Sexy Parodius
Shienryu / Shienryu Gekioh / Gekioh: Shooting King
Stargate / Defender II
Strikers 1945
Strikers 1999 / Strikers 1945 III
Super Aleste / Space Megaforce (SNES)
Tatsujin / Truxton
Tatsujin Oh / Truxton II
Triggerheart Exelica
Twin Cobra / Kyukyoku Tiger
Twinkle Star Sprites
U.N. Squadron / Area 88 (SNES)
Undefined Fantastic Object
Zanac (NES) / Zanac EX

we already don't have enough voters (69 heh heh) and it also isn't an absolute requirement, but more of a self-imposed rule to guide you whether you should participate or not and I wouldn't think an entry-level player would have that foundation to be able to participate. I think what you might be trying to say is a lesser skilled player instead of entry level, but I'm just being pedantic

[Lethe]

And I’m quite pleased Thunder Dragon 2 slipped in the top 25. The incredulity about its placement gave me a laugh, too. A conspiracy of insincere insurgents forced its placement on the list. They paid us to do it. If it feels like just your average boat-tank-plane, or if the bullets hurt your sensitive little eyes, probably best to leave the game to others.

did u beat it yet

tank u for askin- i still haven’t seen past th second boss but i herd he was stronger then some of the other ones so basically i been further

I'll take that as "no", then.

[m.sniffles.esq]

I stated a couple editions ago that a full-on 'battle poll' should be taken, where one gets 100 or whatever points to give to titles, but also have 50 or whatever points to subtract. Therefore strategic voting is not only acceptable, but encouraged.

At that point, everyone was saying they were honestly voting on games and not the poll itself. But, now that people are openly admitting to voting on the poll itself, I purpose this idea again.

[eksratu]

Thank you Nifty!!!

Mushihimesama at Number 2 though? Very cool. Surprised it's above its sequel.

I wonder if that's because its more easily accessible to play since its on Switch and PC. Futari still doesn't have a PC release AFAIK.

I also wonder how much these lists would change depending on how easily one could play a title. I've noticed that whenever a more difficult to find shmup (say its last release was a Japan only PS2 port) got a recent multiplatform release, it tended to move up higher in the all time results. Imagine if Ibara finally got an M2 multiplatform release, would that be on the list and be higher up?

I think accessibility definitely has an impact, but the disparity in ports also isn't new. Mushihimesama's PC port came out in 2015, and the Switch port was 2021. Futari was ahead of the first game as recently as the last vote.

DOJ placed really well last time following its M2 STG release. I think it'd be easy to imagine an M2 port of Ibara encouraging more people to play and appreciate it.

[jehu]

In short, we can't be too elitist and snobbish, unless we want to retreat into a hermetic gaming world that's incomprehensible to others.

Yes, god forbid that this forum becomes a hermetic gaming world that’s incomprehensible to others.

Spoiler

did u beat it yet

tank u for askin- i still haven’t seen past th second boss but i herd he was stronger then some of the other ones so basically i been further

I'll take that as "no", then.

I’m sorry that you can’t see a joke even when it hits you in the face with all the subtlety of a bowling ball. The TD2 bullets must be a nightmare for you.

[Lemnear]

Technically speaking, based on the background guidance for voting that’s been consistent (outside of the number of games), entry level players shouldn’t be voting. This year the guidance stated that to have a proper foundation for voting, you should have a good understanding of 66 (half) of the prior years top 25/honorable mentions, which if you meet the criteria I would say you wouldn’t necessarily be considered entry level for the genre

Well, you have to at least have played the things you're voting for, but in many cases it's a bit difficult, because some games are difficult to access. For example, how many can afford to vote for Aka & Blue Type-R? Or anything that doesn't run well on MAME without having to tinker a lot.

I get your point, but aka & blue type-r isn't one of the 132 games that it's recommended that you've played (a reasonable understanding of their general style of design, how they control, how the scoring might work, or even the factors that contribute(d) to them being classically well-regarded) 66 of to have a strong enough foundation to participate in the voting

the list

Spoiler

All Past Top 25 Games (65 total)
Akai Katana
Armed Police Batrider
Axelay
Batsugun
Battle Bakraid
Battle Garegga
Border Down
Cho Ren Sha 68K
Crimzon Clover / World Ignition
Dangun Feveron
Darius Burst: Another Chronicle / EX / Chronicle Saviours
Darius Gaiden
Deathsmiles
DoDonPachi
DoDonPachi Dai-Fukkatsu 1.5
DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou
DoDonPachi SaiDaiOuJou
DonPachi
Dragon Blaze
Einhänder
Eschatos
ESPGaluda
ESPGaluda II
ESP Ra.De.
Flying Shark / Hishouzame
G-Darius
Gate of Thunder
Giga Wing
Gradius III (SNES)
Gradius Gaiden
Gradius V
Gunbird
Gunbird 2
Gunhed / Blazing Lazers
Guwange
Ibara
Ikaruga
Ketsui
Mars Matrix
Muchi Much Pork!
MUSHA Aleste
Mushihimesama
Mushihimesama Futari
Progear no Arashi
Radiant Silvergun
Raiden DX
Raiden Fighters Jet
RayForce / Layer Section / Gunlock / Galactic Attack
R-Type
R-Type Delta
Salamander / Life Force (ARC)
Sengoku Blade
Shikigami no Shiro II
Soldier Blade
Soukyugurentai
Strikers 1945 II
Thunder Dragon 2
Thunder Force III
Thunder Force IV / Lightening Force
Thunder Force V
Under Defeat
Winds of Thunder / Lords of Thunder
Zanac Neo
Zero Gunner 2
ZeroRanger


All Past Honorable-Mention-Only Games (67 total)
19XX: The War Against Destiny
Blazing Star
Blue Revolver
Blue Wish Resurrection / Plus
Cotton Rock 'n' Roll / Cotton Fantasy
Cyvern
Deathsmiles II
Dimahoo / Great Mahou Daisakusen
DoDonPachi Dai-Fukkatsu Black Label
Dogyuun
Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
Fire Shark / Same! Same! Same!
Flame Zapper Kotsujin
Gaiares
Galaga
GG Aleste 3
Giga Wing 2
Ginga Force
Gokujou Parodius
Gradius / Nemesis
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou / Vulcan Venture
Great Fairy Wars
Gun.Smoke (ARC)
Hellfire
Hellsinker
Imperishable Night
Judgement Silversword
Kamui
Mahou Daisakusen / Sorcer Striker
Mecha Ritz / Steel Rondo
Metal Black
Mountain of Faith
Neko Navy
Out Zone
Parodius / Parodius-Da!
Parsec47
Perfect Cherry Blossom
Phantasmagoria of Dim. Dream
Phantasmagoria of Flower View
Pink Sweets
Psyvariar 2
Pulstar
Radirgy / Radio Allergy
Raiden
Raiden II
Raiden IV
Raiden Fighters 2: Operation Hell Dive
Recca
Rolling Gunner
R-Type III: The Third Lightning
R-Type Final
Salamander / Life Force (NES)
Salamander 2
Sexy Parodius
Shienryu / Shienryu Gekioh / Gekioh: Shooting King
Stargate / Defender II
Strikers 1945
Strikers 1999 / Strikers 1945 III
Super Aleste / Space Megaforce (SNES)
Tatsujin / Truxton
Tatsujin Oh / Truxton II
Triggerheart Exelica
Twin Cobra / Kyukyoku Tiger
Twinkle Star Sprites
U.N. Squadron / Area 88 (SNES)
Undefined Fantastic Object
Zanac (NES) / Zanac EX

we already don't have enough voters (69 heh heh) and it also isn't an absolute requirement, but more of a self-imposed rule to guide you whether you should participate or not and I wouldn't think an entry-level player would have that foundation to be able to participate. I think what you might be trying to say is a lesser skilled player instead of entry level, but I'm just being pedantic

Yes, I read the rules. It's a shame I didn't like so many of them, and in many cases I explored them by force, partly for knowledge and partly out of curiosity. But then again, tastes change over time.

But if you set the goal of knowing at least half of the 132 games listed, aren't you indirectly pushing others out of a potential Top 25/Honorable Mention?
I'm not saying they shouldn't be that number—who am I to say—but the pool is much larger than that, in reality. And taking these as a sample to play brings us back to the problem of availability, especially for games that have never finished that high. That is, if this is the requirement, and everyone has played these, they will mostly vote for these titles.

I thought I posted but maybe I'm wrong o_0

[Lethe]

Spoiler

I’m sorry that you can’t see a joke even when it hits you in the face with all the subtlety of a bowling ball. The TD2 bullets must be a nightmare for you.

Spoiler

No, YOU'RE the one who's not getting the joke here. Clearly I'm operating several levels above you bro
When you discuss things with passion, you are exposing vulnerability. There is an implicit social contract that when you make fun of someone, you provide just as much ammo to be used against yourself as you use on them.
When you specialize in posting pretentious snark and expose nothing, you don't look like a joker, you just look like an asshole.
So why don't you tell us how you really feel? You did that in the past sometimes, what changed? You going through a hard time in life?

[Some-Mist]

yes and no. it kinda goes back to your question whether you vote for what you like or what you think is the best, and collectively that list is what has been considered the best over the years which I would say is a good indicator of objective results even if your own vote is subjective. Or you can just think of it as canon-building (one of us... one of us...). It's your choice to choose what you include in the list, but having played half of what has been considered the "best of all time" is a good measure of your familiarity with the genre. I know it took me a couple years before I could meet the guidelines before I voted, and even then I look at my earlier lists and go "ugh gross" even though at its core it's generally a lot of the games I still vote for.

Availability does and doesn't matter, in that you can still meet the list "requirements" using widely available games, but it's still an interesting point. I didn't sink much time into hacha mecha fighter before it's arcade archives release, and then I became addicted with it, and it ended up in my list despite not being included in the list of prior winners/HMs. man do I love hugging and bumping