Raiden Fighters Remix Collection

[Light1000]

they hadn't changed their minds for a 2D shooter - a genre which just didn't sell in the US ever since the NES years.

FTFY

[DenimDemon]

Moss posted saying they will patch Raiden Fighters...

https://x.com/moss_raiden/status/2029391339604074866

[Starfighter]

Cool! I heard the input latency is pretty bad as well and that it can't be improved without doing it over from the ground up, so as I understand it the 54 patch will at least get it halfway to okay. Not sure which version is 6 frames though. If it's Switch then I take it it's 5 on other platforms.

(If I remember correctly 5 frames is my personal limit, I can't "feel" any input latency up until that point.)

But there's a good reason - as a European, you were not entitled to even buy it.

Sorry to sound like a total dork, but really, some perspective is required on your end. The fact that the game ended up getting a release in the US was odd enough and seems the ones in charge regretted the effort soon after. It was clearly a thing for Japan only.

I'm all for learning/increasing my insight, in many cases the more I understand the less frustrated I become. So, the definitive version is the japanese one, and it's expensive because it's in some ways better than the cheap US version?

[Necronom]

@Bassa-Bassa
The point is that - contrary to what you seemingly believe - Raiden games were never Japan only.
They were designed primarily for Japan but also with western markets in mind. That's why they were officially licenced to distributors of arcade hardware in countries like Germany for example.
I worked for a chain of arcades in Germany during the mid to late 90s. German arcades make most of their profits with slot machines and pool but at that time videogames and pinball were also present. I do remember the first RF being among the popular ones, rotating among several locations. Btw, I'm not talking about the Chinese bootlegs that flooded eastern European arcades during that time. From travels I do remember seeing RF also in France and Italy.
The market for quality shmups was and is there, even though it's just a fraction of the Japanese one.
It's really a shame that even the Japanese Devs nowadays tend to port these classics with minimal effort.

[Bassa-Bassa]

So, the definitive version is the japanese one, and it's expensive because it's in some ways better than the cheap US version?

I'm afraid I can't help you there. I got the NTSC-J version the moment it released (so cheap enough - its price skyrocketed once Cave decided to jump in and made of the X360 the STG machine of the moment, poor old Success could not foresee it and the print run for Aces had been scant at best) and, as mentioned, it received a patch (with the mandatory low-res CRT filter) soon after. Common sense says that got added directly for the US version which came a year and a half later, but things by then were not like they are today (where the US market is basically the only one that matters), so I'd keep asking around in case. At any rate, I would not expect an actual fix from the forthcoming patch by Moss.

@Bassa-Bassa
The point is that - contrary to what you seemingly believe - Raiden games were never Japan only.

Never implied that, though? What I do know is that the Raiden series is one thing and the Raiden Fighters (Gundogs, anyone?) series is another altogether. Raiden Fighters came in a moment where STGs were already dying in Western arcades. Vertically-mounted monitors were a almost thing of the past there in late 1996 (even Sonic Wings 2 from 1994 was retooled for horizontal monitors in the last moment to try to sell in the West). Was it made with an eye on the Western arcades as well despite the situation? Sure, it was Seibu, after all, and likely the name change had that as the reason. But what does it have to do with the console market of more than a decade later and a company called Success?

The market for quality shmups was and is there, even though it's just a fraction of the Japanese one.

The market for quality STGs almost dried out even in Japan after Street Fighter 2. Just check how long Eighting or even Psikyo lasted in late 90s. Taito and Konami retired even sooner. Minor companies like Success, Warashi, Treasure did not sell enough. Cave was the exception, and only in Japan. And here we are.

[jehu]

Patch incoming? Take with a grain or rather a pillar of salt.

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2026 ... g-on-a-fix

[Jonpachi]

Patch incoming? Take with a grain or rather a pillar of salt.

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2026 ... g-on-a-fix

This line is cooking me, "We will review our internal quality control processes..."

[Creamy Goodness]

Glad they are fixing this, but there is an annoyance that they fucked people who purchased the physical version that will not go away. Bet LRG are licking their chops at this.

[bobrocks95]

Love that the press release reads like they just now discovered the games were supposed to run at 54Hz.

Sounds like the perfect time to grab a 360 copy!

[Necronom]

Was it made with an eye on the Western arcades as well despite the situation? Sure, it was Seibu, after all, and likely the name change had that as the reason. But what does it have to do with the console market of more than a decade later and a company called Success?

Well, obviously a good portion of your potential customers will be the ones remembering playing and enjoying it at the arcade. Even if it's a decade later.

The fact that the game ended up getting a release in the US was odd enough and seems the ones in charge regretted the effort soon after. It was clearly a thing for Japan only.

Taken from "Viper Phase 1 – 2006 Developer Interview" on shmuplations.com:
"As a developer Seibu Kaihatsu was always very conscious of the overseas market, too. We never sold that well in Japan but overseas our games did very well." (Yoritaka Kasai)

Success was well aware of this, which is also why the Xbox 360 port was region-coded. They clearly intended to licence Aces for the Western markets sooner or later.

[scrilla4rella]

This is of course anecdotal but Raiden was fairly common at the arcades and pizza joints that I frequented when growing up in California. When I went off to college (early 2000s) the campus arcade had exactly two shooters: Strikers 1945 and Raiden Fighters. I actually pulled a crowd several times when working on my 1cc of Raiden Fighters.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Was it made with an eye on the Western arcades as well despite the situation? Sure, it was Seibu, after all, and likely the name change had that as the reason. But what does it have to do with the console market of more than a decade later and a company called Success?

Well, obviously a good portion of your potential customers will be the ones remembering playing and enjoying it at the arcade. Even if it's a decade later.

The fact that the game ended up getting a release in the US was odd enough and seems the ones in charge regretted the effort soon after. It was clearly a thing for Japan only.

Taken from "Viper Phase 1 – 2006 Developer Interview" on shmuplations.com:
"As a developer Seibu Kaihatsu was always very conscious of the overseas market, too. We never sold that well in Japan but overseas our games did very well." (Yoritaka Kasai)

Success was well aware of this, which is also why the Xbox 360 port was region-coded. They clearly intended to licence Aces for the Western markets sooner or later.

You don't get it. Success had no business in the West in 2008. And again, STGs didn't sell there. Think of Raiden Fighters Aces much like you'd do of Harmful Park, Night Raid or Shienryu. Or, for a contemporary example from a franchise well known in the West, Thunder Force VI. Believing that the fact of belonging to a STG series which made a name in the West or having sold a little bit in PCB form in some countries more than a decade before had any relevance for a STG release in 2008's home market is way too delusional. Leaving a door open in the case that some Western publisher eventually bites is one thing, planning your game for the West like if it were the next Metal Gear Solid is quite another.

[Darkseed_5150]

I will buy it once the patch releases. Glad the complaints compelled the devs, although they should've known better while developing.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

they hadn't changed their minds for a 2D shooter - a genre which just didn't sell in the US ever since the NES years.

FTFY

Even SCEA had the "The Raiden Project" as a launch title when the PSX went on sale in the USA back in 1995 -- of course it had a $49.99 usd price tag as well. Seibu was quite well-acquainted with the American arcade market, hence with both Raiden jamma pcb & Raiden II jamma pcb kits (in February of 1994 debut stateside) released through the Fabtek arcade distributor -- so American arcade gamers were quite already familiar with both Raiden stg titles when the PSX NTSC U/C "The Raiden Project" stg title was a showcase title not to be missed indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Bassa-Bassa]

Even SCEA had the "The Raiden Project" as a launch title when the PSX went on sale in the USA back in 1995 -- of course it had a $49.99 usd price tag as well.

Try to picture how the sales of both, Raiden Project and Philosoma, went for them that you'd never see a 2D shooter by SCEA ever again.

[Jonpachi]

Even SCEA had the "The Raiden Project" as a launch title when the PSX went on sale in the USA back in 1995 -- of course it had a $49.99 usd price tag as well.

Try to picture how the sales of both, Raiden Project and Philosoma, went for them that you'd never see a 2D shooter by SCEA ever again.

This. And by the time we even got Raiden Project we’d seen it on Genesis and Jaguar. It was old news and clearly just filler to bolster that early catalogue.

[Necronom]

You don't get it. Success had no business in the West in 2008. And again, STGs didn't sell there. Think of Raiden Fighters Aces much like you'd do of Harmful Park, Night Raid or Shienryu.

It's a bit rich to tell me that I don't get it but anyway. Western markets received shmups on the PSX, Dreamcast and PS2, so it's a bit of an exaggeration to say that STGs didn't sell there. They did sell, just not at the same level or full price as in Japan. Why would anyone seriously compare RFA to Harmful Park? RFA has a universally appealing theme that can be sold anywhere on the planet, whereas Harmful Park is a niche, very Japanese title.

Believing that the fact of belonging to a STG series which made a name in the West or having sold a little bit in PCB form in some countries more than a decade before had any relevance for a STG release in 2008's home market is way too delusional. Leaving a door open in the case that some Western publisher eventually bites is one thing, planning your game for the West like if it were the next Metal Gear Solid is quite another.

A little bit? You play down the success of Raiden and RF in arcades outside of Japan, even though Seibu employees have clearly stated that they performed well in Western markets. You also seem to ignore the fact that RF was a high-spec title that became technically portable years later.
Region coding without being forced to do so is not "leaving a door open"! It's a calculated business decision designed to maximise profits through licensing. This is always based on data showing interest in the product in other markets. 'Content reasons' for keeping a product inside a certain market are very rare, and are clearly not the case here. Therefore, RFA on the 360 was intended to be released in all three markets (JP, US and EU), which only partially worked because it took quite a while to finalise the deals and ultimately resulted in a US release at a budget price point.
It's therefore extremely frustrating that the 54Hz option wasn't included in the current Remix release, despite them finally going global and multiplatform. Let's hope the update will fix this and they just wanted to test whether it would be worthwhile.

Try to picture how the sales of both, Raiden Project and Philosoma, went for them that you'd never see a 2D shooter by SCEA ever again.

Since Raiden Project was a launch title in the US and Europe it very likely did good. People from Sony Music (!) approached Seibu very early and once Playstation launched the priority clearly shifted to 3D regardless of genre. I doubt that sales were such a big factor here. After all, In '97 and '98 R-Type Delta and Einhänder revitalized the 2D shooter with the 3D graphics Sony wanted - sales were solid.

[SavagePencil]

Since Raiden Project was a launch title in the US and Europe it very likely did good. People from Sony Music (!) approached Seibu very early and once Playstation launched the priority clearly shifted to 3D regardless of genre. I doubt that sales were such a big factor here. After all, In '97 and '98 R-Type Delta and Einhänder revitalized the 2D shooter with the 3D graphics Sony wanted - sales were solid.

Sales were NOT particularly solid, though: R-Type Delta sold an utterly terrible 11K units, and Einhander (the outlier) at 75K units: viewtopic.php?t=77506

[Bassa-Bassa]

It's a bit rich to tell me that I don't get it but anyway.

But not as much as to say that mine is "complete nonsense", right? But anyway!,

RFA has a universally appealing theme that can be sold anywhere on the planet, whereas Harmful Park is a niche, very Japanese title.

Sounds like you're projecting again (or confusing Park with Chou Aniki?), 'cause that's just off even for those years. Anyway, I gave you three other samples, and not to compare reasons to keep a game Japan-only, but to remind you that most lesser companies making console STGs didn't even know what the West was in regards to map out a release.

A little bit? You play down the success of Raiden and RF in arcades outside of Japan, even though Seibu employees have clearly stated that they performed well in Western markets. You also seem to ignore the fact that RF was a high-spec title that became technically portable years later.
Region coding without being forced to do so is not "leaving a door open"! It's a calculated business decision designed to maximise profits through licensing. This is always based on data showing interest in the product in other markets. 'Content reasons' for keeping a product inside a certain market are very rare, and are clearly not the case here. Therefore, RFA on the 360 was intended to be released in all three markets (JP, US and EU), which only partially worked because it took quite a while to finalise the deals and ultimately resulted in a US release at a budget price point.
It's therefore extremely frustrating that the 54Hz option wasn't included in the current Remix release, despite them finally going global and multiplatform. Let's hope the update will fix this and they just wanted to test whether it would be worthwhile.

Since Raiden Project was a launch title in the US and Europe it very likely did good. People from Sony Music (!) approached Seibu very early and once Playstation launched the priority clearly shifted to 3D regardless of genre. I doubt that sales were such a big factor here. After all, In '97 and '98 R-Type Delta and Einhänder revitalized the 2D shooter with the 3D graphics Sony wanted - sales were solid.

You seem to like to live in your own delusional irreality, so it's clear it won't matter whatever I have to say so, OK, fare well?

[AGermanArtist]

beep beep

[Faith]

beep beep

Boop boop!~

[SavagePencil]

beep beep

who got the keys to the jeep

[Faith]

This is of course anecdotal but Raiden was fairly common at the arcades and pizza joints that I frequented when growing up in California. When I went off to college (early 2000s) the campus arcade had exactly two shooters: Strikers 1945 and Raiden Fighters. I actually pulled a crowd several times when working on my 1cc of Raiden Fighters.

Not just anecdotal!!~

"Raiden is the most successful shmup, commercially."

This topic was covered by Mark here (starting 11:40), he talks about Raiden success:

https://youtu.be/mhi5YsZdyCA?t=700

I know, not everyone here likes Mark a lot :p but his genre knowledge is quite good!

But yes, I agree... Raiden was... everywhere. In many, many places... especially outside Japan... Raiden was the only STG ever to see in arcade... even same for me!!~

If it is not for Raiden... not sure if I will ever had played STG, discovered this great genre, so on. Raiden went beyond Japan. Strongly suggest watching that part of the video, I think it shows super well, even if Raiden was not best or everyone's favorite... it was very, very important for STG's and the exposure of it outside Japan.

[Necronom]

Since Raiden Project was a launch title in the US and Europe it very likely did good. People from Sony Music (!) approached Seibu very early and once Playstation launched the priority clearly shifted to 3D regardless of genre. I doubt that sales were such a big factor here. After all, In '97 and '98 R-Type Delta and Einhänder revitalized the 2D shooter with the 3D graphics Sony wanted - sales were solid.

Sales were NOT particularly solid, though: R-Type Delta sold an utterly terrible 11K units, and Einhander (the outlier) at 75K units: viewtopic.php?t=77506

Thanks for the link — it would be interesting to compare these numbers with those from Europe. Admittedly, the US numbers for R-Type Delta are lower than I thought. Perhaps it wasn't the best idea to release R-Types and R-Type Delta in the same year. It's interesting though that the best-performing PSX shmup release, Einhänder, didn't get an EU release, while Delta and Raycrisis did. There were probably more factors at play than just sales numbers.
Returning to Raiden, the numbers for Raiden Project as a launch title definitely look solid to me. I also think that Mark MSX's observations are correct.

[Creamy Goodness]

This is of course anecdotal but Raiden was fairly common at the arcades and pizza joints that I frequented when growing up in California. When I went off to college (early 2000s) the campus arcade had exactly two shooters: Strikers 1945 and Raiden Fighters. I actually pulled a crowd several times when working on my 1cc of Raiden Fighters.

Based on your screen name I assume you are from the Bay Area. Was your college in the Bay also? Curious to see which school had it to see if I missed out on playing Raiden Fighters on a cab. When I was in college I lost interest in arcade games so I feel like I may have missed out.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

In the greater Modesto, CA area alone, there was at one time, a whopping nine dedicated Raiden II cabs out on location at the same time back in the early 2000s era -- goes to show that it still had some amazing popularity and longevity in terms of earning valuable quarters "profit-wise" on the various "street locations" that they were placed at (based on it's brand namesake recognition alone). I was throughly impressed to see that many Raiden II cabs sprinkled throughout the city back in the day of American arcade lore. Seibu Kaihatsu sure had a "killer app" arcade stg title with Raiden II stateside.

----------
Back in the mid-1990s, a typical Raiden II jamma pcb would save both high scores & high score initials via the on-board "back-up" battery as mentioned in the Raiden II instruction manual (assuming there was one present/factory-installed from the "get-go"). Eventually when the back-up battery went kaput/died, those valuable high scores & high score initials vanished into "thin air." True story, folks.
----------

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Atariboy]

The only 90's shooters I'd come across with regularity from my occasional trips to arcades were Raiden 1, 2, Fighters, and Strikers 1945. I didn't see Fighters a whole lot compared to the other three, but did come across it here and there. I assume it sold better here than the competition like the late 194X entries from Capcom (which I never saw in the wild and only know from emulation and FPGA cores).

One thing that I think helped Fighters perform reasonably well at US arcades was that it apparently was sold as a conversion kit based off what I experienced. A lot of the cabinets I'd see were from a different and older game. Often it was another Raiden cabinet that had been a good earner for the arcade operator in recent history, sometimes with the original artwork intact and just the marquee swapped out.

For instance the local laundromat when I was an undergrad had a Raiden DX cabinet with all the artwork intact (including marquee) but with Fighters running inside. The only time I ever saw a Raiden DX cabinet. And to top off the disappointment, it was the dimmest CRT that I've ever seen and never got fixed while I was there. But the sitdown Cruis'n USA next to it at least helped make up for it each time.

[MJR]

I used to haunt arcades in Finland (and UK) during the 90's and early 00's, as long as they existed.

Shmups were already starting to disappear after Street Fighter II wiped off the competition, but one game I saw everywhere was Raiden II, and later Raiden DX. It would seem that those were fairly liked games at the time. I even saw Viper Phase 1.
However, I never saw later sequels anywhere (Raiden fighters, etc), so I assumed after Viper Phase 1 that Seibu had gone out of business or had begun to cover for japanese markets only.
Then again, I can't speak for all of europe- just few towns in Finland and London area.

If I now think about it, shmups I saw the most were Toaplan and Irem shmups, Neo Geo shmups like pulstar and blazing star, and then Raiden II / DX. Last shmup I saw on traditional arcades was Blazing Star.

Today's retro arcades are bit different case so I'm not counting them.

[Creamy Goodness]

I just received my copy today and was greeted with an update as soon as I opened the game. Does that update contain the frame rate fix or is that still coming?

[Starfighter]

I just received my copy today and was greeted with an update as soon as I opened the game. Does that update contain the frame rate fix or is that still coming?

There was an update a few days before they announced they're working on a framerate patch, I bet it's that one. Something to do with the leaderboards is my guess.