From Software 'n such

[Blinge]

Yeah armchair game design experts like to bash it.
idk i think if you liked any KF you'll like this one.

KF 1-2-3
or 2-1-3
trilogy played in that order is a big ol payoff at the end because of the continuous story.
...i woudlnt recommend replaying any though because you'll burn out hardcore

[Sumez]

KF3 is definitely the weakest of the bunch. Can't fault someone for putting it off. 4 feels like a much more natural iteration on 2.
3 feels like it's iterating on 1 instead of 2.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I guess the games have plot. Really doesn't matter though

[Blinge]

yeah there's the armchair dev, right on cue lol

along with the unnecessary snark

[Xan]

I quickly replayed 3 recently, forgot that it had some kind of BS stuff like the Excellector forcing you to grind for no reason. To be fair you should expect to kill every enemy at least once to get the items but still.

Don't understand "iterating on 1", it's pretty clear the focus was on having more open environments with heavier streaming, hence why you get way more of those long corridors than 2. And how they went out of their way to reference 1 and 2 all the time isn't something you see that often IMO.

[Sumez]

yeah there's the armchair dev, right on cue lol

along with the unnecessary snark

What are you even talking about man?
Just stating obvious observations made from the games

If you somehow think it's untrue, try to explain that instead of posting.. oh.. unnecessary snark?

[Sumez]

Don't understand "iterating on 1", it's pretty clear the focus was on having more open environments with heavier streaming, hence why you get way more of those long corridors than 2. And how they went out of their way to reference 1 and 2 all the time isn't something you see that often IMO.

Yeah, that's the iteration. It's not so much similarity to KF1 and it's its distancing from KF2.
Basically it backpedals on all the verticality and interconnected map design of the second game. Several aspects from the second game which the fourth game would revisit, are completely absent from KF3.
It really felt to me like the two games (KF2 and KF3) were somehow developed side by side rather than in succession. I'm aware of little documentation about the deveopment process though. It came out nearly a year later, so it probably isn't technically true.
It's kind of cool how distinct all four King's Field games feel, but 3 definitely has it the roughest.

[Xan]

The credits for 2 and 3 are identical as far as I can tell, and there was about a year between those games. It would indeed seem implausible that they were developed side by side. There must be some dev interviews buried in some old Famitsu issue or so such though...

I can see what you are saying about 2 being more vertical than 3, however I never interpreted that as a development goal and rather as a result of the different locations. It's much more logical for Melanat's tunnel system to be like that than what is supposed to be an entire vast medieval realm (Verdite). The clue for me that 3 is doing more technically than 2 was always the framerate, though. If you've ever noticed, KF2 has this bouncy framerate where it speeds up immensely and slows down again all the time (something that actually really annoyed me the first time I played it). 3 is just slow but consistent all the way, because they are clearly drawing the environments with more polygons (less texture warping) and are doing so with an improved draw distance in larger open areas. It's easy to take this for granted if just coming from more modern games instead of comparing it with other games from that time.

As far as 4 goes, the only aspect definitely returning from 2 that I see is the gate/key system. I guess you could cite that central hub area if you really wanted to, being vertical as well (though in a straightforward way), but Thieves' Passage in KF3 basically acts as a lategame hub in that game and has vertical elements to it, because you have to take specific paths to get to each exit. So it's not like they couldn't do this sort of thing in KF3, it's just that the focus was on conveying that you are traversing an entire country. And it being set in Verdite is the logical consequence of that place being referenced plenty in KF2.

By the way, while this is not the hardware subforum and some people might not understand what I'm talking about, I'll throw this observation in here: in the KF3 demo video it's visible that they rendered it on a console with the old GPU, or the devkit. However, I've noticed that the red screen tint effect from being poisoned has additional shading steps when played on the new GPU, and I'm wondering whether they made that deliberately. KF1-2 predate the new GPU and I like to get out a system with the old GPU for them. It's not a huge difference in either case unlike something like AC though.

[Blinge]

KF3 is the Dark Souls 2 of KF

but Dark souls 2 is the 3rd game...
really makes you think


The other changes in KF3 is something like poise, you can no longer just stun every enemy out the gate i believe.. there's a red flash now when you hit them too.

Also: Excellector levels up whether you're using it or not.

[Xan]

Also: Excellector levels up whether you're using it or not.

I didn't say you need to use it, you still need to hit a certain amount of XP to get it to level 3 and create Ichrius Key.

[Stevens]

Hey I know it's Fromsoft adjacent - but has anyone else played Lies of P's dlc?

[it290]

I have it installed but have not gotten around to it yet. I hear it's pretty good though?

[bcass]

Sony Shuts Down Video-Game Studio Bluepoint

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -bluepoint

Everyone fearing that they were going to do to Bloodborne what they did to Demon's Souls can breath a sigh of relief.

[lrem]

Sony Shuts Down Video-Game Studio Bluepoint

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -bluepoint

Everyone fearing that they were going to do to Bloodborne what they did to Demon's Souls can breath a sigh of relief.

So much for the BB remake…

[bcass]

More evidence, as if it was ever in doubt, that From did not like what Bluepoint did with Demon's Souls:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newslett ... re-closure

"In early 2025, when Bluepoint again pitched the idea of Bloodborne remake, the studio was told that the numbers made sense but FromSoftware didn’t want it to happen"

[ryu]

I just can't get over how laughably off tone that remake is lol

[Sima Tuna]

I can't remember if I've asked this before, so I risk looking an amnesiac... But I wanted to ask which of the modern king's field inspired games this thread thinks are any good? What do people think of Lunacid, Dread Delusion etc? Or are the old proper KF games just superior in every way to the young upstarts? I've barely played any KF or KF-likes.

[Blinge]

Lunacid is fun, i would even say it's cool - but its KF similarities are only skin deep. The game is super easy, the combat doesnt feel weighty enough.

Even if several areas and visual are lifted wholesale from From games.

we're talking the boat ride in Shadow Tower Abyss,
Tower of Latria stage 1

( just watch my lunacid magic only video instead )

I'm a ways into Verho: Curse of Faces

and that seems like a worthy successor so far. I dig the melee combat.
With the dialogue and characters though i wish they'd understood that sometimes less is more..

[Immryr]

Lunacid is the only one I've played and I agree with Blinge. I keep meaning to try the one they made in sword of moonlight.

The demo of Queen's Domain felt promising.

[Sima Tuna]

we're talking the boat ride in Shadow Tower Abyss,
Tower of Latria stage 1

The more I hear about Shadow Tower and Shadow Tower Abyss, the more I think I should be playing them instead of anything else. Tower of Latria 3-1 is probably my favorite stage in any fromsoft game. Not exactly an unpopular opinion though... Perhaps you're a great swamp enjoyer?

I appreciate the input. Verho does look pretty neat in the footage I've seen. The thing you said about the dialogue, I think that's a key marker of "From" game design. NPCs speak few words and most of what they do say is functional rather than explanatory. It contributes to the despairing atmosphere of their games.

[Mortificator]

Good to see more people having fun with the incredible King's Field IV!

There was a time when I was palpably hungry for Shadow Tower Abyss, but when I got around to trying it I bounced off hard. Guns trivialize combat (shades of DS1 pyro?) while also being not fun to use; the slowness that feels methodical with ancient weapons is just unpleasant. The areas are not so interesting with their plant theme. No music even for boss fights.

Anyway, I started replaying Zone of the Enders 2nd and really wasn't feeling it, even when the legend himself Vic Viper showed up. Switched over to Armored Core 3 and had so much more fun.

[Blinge]

So play it without guns?

my first playthrough i barely used them because i was so king's field brained

[drauch]

I just started Abyss yesterday. I've been using the pistol to blast critters with projectiles. At least the early stuff seems to do very little damage and with no reticle, they definitely aren't giving me an op vibe just yet.

Obviously, I'm an esteemed gent of fine taste, so I miss my King's Field background jams, but I do love the oppressive silence being stuck in this strange place with all these dead adventurers. Such a cool game.

[Blinge]

https://youtu.be/B6orXGg9nAk

^
Hightlights video of my Dark Souls II streams -> Did the whole game as a fat boy, no rolling.

If i rolled by accident I had to use the darksign and lose all souls permanently on the spot.

[Marc]

I think it's time I started Elden Ring.....

[ryu]

https://youtu.be/B6orXGg9nAk

The guy in the comments mentioning to do it while overburdened is crazy. Nothing about that "challenge" sounds fun lol

[Mortificator]

Oh my god, comments guy is still at it.

Great run.

[drauch]

ST: Abyss done. Yeah, guns are OP, and almost a necessity in some of those later levels like floating platform and fog land. Wish it was KFIV length. Already miss it.

I think quality kinda tapers off in some of the last levels, but just a little. They become tedious and shorter. Not as much love, almost like near the end of Dark Souls like time was running out. Did enjoy the last area, though, and the 1v1 duels within.

Really liked the environmental storytelling with the dead mercenaries, and as you go on you find less and less of them. Was hoping there were more of those tribal dudes or others about, like all these different groups of people get stuck here looking for the spear. Really miss the focus on adventure and immersion with old From.

Keep forgetting about the existence of Eternal Ring. Gonna take a small break from similar games before I jump back in to avoid over-saturation. Might finally try Kuon.

Is there a good Armored Core starting point, or just start at the first? I've only played a little bit of the first game. Not sure if it's my jam. Not huge on mech stuff, tbh. Maybe one that can sell me on the series?

[bcass]

Armored Core: For Answer and Armored Core: Verdict Day are the best of the old titles IMO. The controls with the prior PS1/PS2 AC games are just too much to contend with in this day and age. AC:VD is the best AC game I've ever played, even better than VI, but it has aged and is not nearly as slickly executed as VI. VI is probably the best entry point for new players.

[Sima Tuna]

Armored Core: For Answer and Armored Core: Verdict Day are the best of the old titles IMO. The controls with the prior PS1/PS2 AC games are just too much to contend with in this day and age. AC:VD is the best AC game I've ever played, even better than VI, but it has aged and is not nearly as slickly executed as VI. VI is probably the best entry point for new players.

The psp versions of Armored Core 3 and Silent Line allow you to completely customize your controls. I usually make the pad/stick strafe movement and assign turning to left and right bumpers. It works really well.

AC4 and For Answer are fun games but they are 100% super robot games, not real robot. Armored Cores 1-3 are much more of real robot (in the code geass sense of "real robot on roller skates.")

[bcass]

As an aside, are there any hardcore-From people here playing Crimson Desert? If so, what's your take on it so far?