Please help me build a “purist” Cave Cab

[danmakustruggle]

Hello all,

I have recently been really getting into Cave shmups and am lucky enough to know someone who has a couple of Cave PCBs they are happy to lend to me.

I have really fallen in love with Cave and really want to turn one of my cabs into a dedicated Cave shrine/purist cab - not because I will ever be world class at these games, but because I respect the culture a lot and want as “purist” a set up as possible.

I have a New Astro City cab. As I understand it, this is a popular cab for Cave shmups so that’s step 1 of the “purist” element ticked off.

From my research I understand that Seimitsu buttons and joysticks are the “preferred” option (though I know it’s all subjective). I’d be very grateful for your thoughts on this.

For a dedicated Cave cab, is a 1 player 3 button panel the purist way to go? I have other 2 player candy cabs so don’t mind my dedicated cave one being different - and if there is a hardcore/ purist justification for going 1 player 3 buttons then I’m happy to do it… am I right that 1 player 3 buttons is the way to go? Interestingly, some of the Cave cab miniature models doing the rounds have a 3 button layout - but other than that, I haven’t seen any 3 player button layouts on candy cabs on the internet so am curious as to whether this is the done thing.

This might be overkill, but what would a Cave purist use for button colors? Is there a “tournament” or “developer” standard? What do people tend to go for?

I know there are a lot of Cave fans on here so hopefully this topic taps into your enthusiasm! It’s my first post on here and am really looking forward to getting more and more into all this.

Thank you!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The Cave SH-3 powered DoDonpachi Dai-Fukkatsu & DoDonpachi Dai-Fukkatsu Black Label jamma pcbs are set up for four buttons -- so it'd be recommended to have a control panel layout with two digital-based joysticks & four buttons per player type of setup. Yes, the Seimitsu branded joysticks are recommended for the arcade stg titles but the Sanwa Denshi branded joysticks and push buttons are solid as well -- it's just a matter of preference, why not buy both brands and take them both out for a "test drive" and see for yourself.

If you want the ability to play all the Cave arcade stg roms including the Cv-1000 based games of Dodonpachi-DFK, DoDonpachi-DFK BL and DoDonpachi Sai-Dai-Ou-Jou on your candy cab, look into the South Korean produced "Crown Arcade Raspberry-PI 4 Jamma PCB" sold on eBay as it'll run them all through Final Burn Neo arcade emulation. It's quite awesome to play DDP-SDOJ in tate on a proper low-res 15.75kHz CRT arcade monitor -- accept no substitutes! Check it out here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/204368012484?_ ... %3A2332490 It's recommended to use a Raspberry Pi 4 motherboard with this particular jamma pcb -- it works like a charm indeed!

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The holy grail of candy cabs would be the legendary Taito Egret II variant cab with it's slick rotational mechanism built-in to rotate the 29" monitor if it needed be in either yoko or tate format.
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As for candy cab push buttons color-wise, go with your preferred color choice or you could go with the traditional classic Neo-Geo MVS button layout of red, yellow, green & blue if so desired. Nowadays, you can buy the slick chrome gold and silver variant ball-top joystick knobs & push buttons for a bit of "extra shiny metallic bling" -- check 'em out!

The top three sites to buy such Seimitsu & Sanwa Denshi arcade parts are:

1.) Arcade Shock

2.) Paradise Arcade -- if you start to get into the Chinese manufactured "Blue Elf" based chamma pcbs (i.e; -- King of the Air 1 & King of the Air 2 pcbs, etc.), Paradise Arcade sells a proper Chamma to Jamma adapter (which is a necessity when playing chamma-based pcbs nowadays). It's worth "it's weight in gold" to look into it.

3.) Focus Attack

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[XtraSmiley]

Great post above, but I have to add, if you want to play ALL the Cave CV1000 games perfectly, either shell out the $$$$$ for the PCBs, or PM me to buy a CV1000 multi PCB that plays all the games!

[danmakustruggle]

Thank you very much, both! Much appreciated.

Would the Raspberry PI 4 Jamma PCB really permit playing Cave games (and indeed any other shmup) to a sufficiently "accurate" (enjoyable) level? I'd have thought that lag and compatibility issues would be particularly pronounced and problematic for shmup games - which require extreme precision!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Yes, if you follow the tips for accurate speed & slowdown when running the Final Burn Neo emulation with an "overclocked" Raspberry Pi 4 setup, pretty much the usual arcade stg titles like the Seibu Kaihatsu SPI based Viper Phase 1 "Old Version," Viper Phase 1 "New Version," Viper Phase 1 U.S.A., Raiden Fighters, Raiden Fighters 2: Operation Hell Dive & Raiden Fighters Jet all run/play at the correct "arcade-spec" 54mHz speed like the actual physical SPI carts themselves do (not to mention the Neo-Geo MVS stg roms like Pulstar, Blazing Star, Strikers 1945 Plus, Ironclad/Brinknger, etc. -- and even the Capcom CPS2 based arcade stgs of GigaWing, Mars Matrix & Cave's Progear No Arashi as well). It's the cheapest way to play the Cave CV-1000 rom of DDP-SDOJ without "breaking the bank" with your wallet (or purse) for that matter (with just the "one-time" cost of buying an Crown Arcade Raspberry Pi jamma pcb, Raspberry Pi 4, micro SDHC memory card, a 512gb sized micro usb thumb drive, a usb keyboard and you're all set).

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You'll be surprised at what arcade stgs and arcade game rom in general are playable through FBN emulation nowadays -- I'm throughly impressed with it. It does require the use of a usb powered keyboard using the right "Shift" button/key to coin-up/credit up any arcade game rom with FBN emulation hooked up directly to the Raspberry Pi 4 itself. I found out by "trial and error" with the Right "Shift" key to do the honors of crediting up a game.

You can even use a usb powered arcade spinner/rotatary knob controller to play arcade roms such as Tempest (it'll be displayed in high-res 1080 interlaced format on a 240 progressive scan formatted low-res CRT arcade monitor setup which is quite sharp/impressive as it is -- short of playing it on a real traditional color vector-type arcade monitor as originally intended to be played on), Arkanoid, Arkanoid 2: Revenge of Doh, Major Havoc, Breakout, Warlords, Cinematronics' rare Cosmic Chasm from 1983, Atari Games' three player endowed Off The Wall (Arkanoid-like spin-off puzzler from 1991), etc. that use an arcade spinner controller in the original arcade game cabinets of the late 1970s, the Golden Age of Arcades in the early 1980s and into the early 1990s -- how cool is that?

Even a usb powered arcade trakball controller can be used to play arcade-perfect Missile Command, Atari Football, Centipede, Millipede, Crystal Castles, Slither, Cabal, Marble Madness, Marble Madness 2 arcade game prototype, Rampart, etc. as they were originally endowed with an arcade trakball controller setup in the arcades back in the day. Replicated modern-day arcade trakball and arcade spinner controllers have come a long ways since then.

The hefty built-in cooling fan already pre-mounted on the underside of the Crown Arcade pcb itself is adequate enough for an "overclocked" Raspberry Pi 4 setup if used for extended marathon gaming sessions -- so no worries in that respective department.
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PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[emphatic]

If you plan on playing all CAVE games on your cabinet the way they deserve to be played, you should get a 1 player panel with 4 buttons and just use move strips with the artwork for the game you currently concentrate on mastering. While no CAVE game can be played for score with 2 players, some games like Ibara give you different options depending on the player side chosen at the start of the credit.

[danmakustruggle]

Thank you very much for your insights! Super helpful - especially the suggestion to go for 4buttons instead of 3. Definitely going to go for the 1 player option.

Apologies for the noob question, but if I were to get a 1 player panel, would I still be able to “pick” the player side manually to get access to the different options you refer to? Or would i need to rewire the panel?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

This might be overkill, but what would a Cave purist use for button colors? Is there a “tournament” or “developer” standard? What do people tend to go for?

There's nothing like that really; Cave "purists" I don't think exist either, and most Cave fans also play plenty of other games. It's not unusual to see Cave shmups in a variety of cabs or setup. Just use whatever buttons you enjoy. Sanwa and Seimitsu both make quality sticks and buttons and you can't go wrong with them. Seimitsu LS-32 sticks are popular, but by no means the only "good" stick out there.

While no CAVE game can be played for score with 2 players

Mushihimesama Futari unusually scores higher in 2 player due to how Maniac and God modes score, one player gets their multiplier to 9999 / 30000 and cashes in, the other player stays in front doing the collecting.

Cave games generally aren't ideal for multiplayer due to screen movement though (some games like Progear and Guwange don't have this, but generally discourage cooperative play due to scoring or denying loop entry as in Progear and Dodonpachi), but some games benefit very slightly from playing on P2 side, so if your panel only has one set of controls that's something to keep in mind.

There's no reason to only play Cave games on your cab either, a vert cab also can play other nifty options like Omega Fighter.

[emphatic]

Apologies for the noob question, but if I were to get a 1 player panel, would I still be able to “pick” the player side manually to get access to the different options you refer to? Or would i need to rewire the panel?

I made an adapter that I can place in the JAMMA harness when I want to play as player 2, but if you emulate the games, just remap the player 2 controls to player 1 and add a shift button for player 2 start (hold fire 4 while pressing your start button and map that to player 2 start - CAVE use this kind of trick already in their games with different functions, in ESP Ra.De. and ESPGALUDA for example, setting the stage order in ESP Ra.De. and button configuration in ESPGALUDA. Maybe in other titles as well.)

While no CAVE game can be played for score with 2 players

Mushihimesama Futari unusually scores higher in 2 player due to how Maniac and God modes score, one player gets their multiplier to 9999 / 30000 and cashes in, the other player stays in front doing the collecting.

Wow, that's cool, I had no idea, obviously. I just remember trying ESPGALUDA with a friend once and it was hilariously bad as we tried to use Kakusei at the same time and had no idea who triggered it.

[spmbx]

You're absolutely overthinking this.

[Yoshi]

You're absolutely overthinking this.

While also asking about a Raspberry Pi in pursuit of purity.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Wow, that's cool, I had no idea

I was able to dig up the original post I made where I'd found the Youtube vids of a guy doing a score attack doubleplay if you're curious:

viewtopic.php?p=796898#p796898

[emphatic]

Wow, that's cool, I had no idea

I was able to dig up the original post I made where I'd found the Youtube vids of a guy doing a score attack doubleplay if you're curious:

viewtopic.php?p=796898#p796898

Much appreciated, thanks!

[danmakustruggle]

You're absolutely overthinking this.

Your comment makes me think that, frankly, you’re not someone capable of giving things too much thought.

[danmakustruggle]

You're absolutely overthinking this.

While also asking about a Raspberry Pi in pursuit of purity.

I was expressing scepticism that a Raspberry Pi could ever run a Cave game without input lag (amongst other things). Clearly your English comprehension skills aren’t particularly strong…

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I don't think their comment was intended to be meanspirited. I mean to be fair, you were asking what button colors a "purist" would use. Love the enthusiasm though! It's quite understandable you wouldn't know the answers to any of this given that arcade culture is largely dead in North America and Europe, and never really resembled the culture Japan built up, so if you're not friends in real life with anyone who owns candy cabs you wouldn't have any exposure to any of this!

I know someone who installed a Raspberry PI into an arcade cab... tremendous waste in my experience, it simply doesn't have the power to emulate a lot of demanding games and the emulators that were running on it were older versions that had emulation issues. Stuff like Darius Gaiden were completely off the table. Early CAVE games like Dodonpachi worked okay, but honestly if you're going to invest in an actual Candy Cab, get a PCB for a game you like (it's a good excuse to dedicate yourself to a fun game), or get an actual emulation computer for the cab, you don't need a high end computer with the necessary USB to Jamma adapter to do arcade emulation nowadays except maybe for 3D games, and it gives you way more options and usability than the Raspberry PI does.

[AGermanArtist]

Chuck a £300 Beelink mini PC in it and you'll have access to a multitude of stuff you'll never get running on a Raspberry Pi.

[spmbx]

Dude what's up with the hostile remarks? Good luck.