3DO HDMI - Would you guys recommend this modification?

[Rock Man]

https://www.pixelfx.co/product-page/3do-hdmi

I’ve got an FZ-10 Panasonic 3DO that came with a 240p mod and the MNEMO Host Controller ODE.

My questions are as follows:

-Does the website provide an installation service where you pay for the labor?

-Will it work with an FZ-10 3DO that has a MNEMO 3DO Host Controller ODE installed?

-The 3DO that I want serviced already has a 240p mod (without RGB). Could an HDMI output be added on top of the existing 240p mod?

-Does this HDMI mod completely replace 240p with pure 1080p/4K, or does it depend on the 240p/480i to reach HD mode?

-If I get this Retro Gem mod, would there be any benefit to adding a 480i switch to toggle between the existing 240p and 480i?

-I heard this mod lets you overclock the 3DO with an app! Of course, overclocking can be risky if pushed too far.
From what I’ve gathered, the 3DO should be fine as long as it’s kept running at 60Hz—is there any truth to that?

-What's the maximum overclock that you could get away with without damaging the 3DO?

-Suppose I wanted to play in RGB after getting the mod—are there any retrovision cable variants that down-convert from HDMI to RGB for CRT use?
And if so, could I switch between 480i and 240p through a menu, or would that require a physical switch?

-If RGB isn’t an option, would a separate RGB mod be needed to go alongside the HDMI mod? To allow the user to use either or at their own convenience.

-What's the highest resolution this mod gives you? If it's 4K, then great, I can connect it directly! But if it tops out at 1080p, I'll just use the Tink 4K instead.

-Since this 3DO uses the MNEMO HOST controller, does that make it eligible for the Retro Gem? In other words, does this 3DO not have the Anvil IC that no longer exposes the digital bus?

-What's the difficulty of installing something like this with both 240 and MNEMO present?

This mod looks amazing! I’ve had this MNEMO FZ-10 3DO for decades, but I’m tired of being limited to S-Video, even with the 240p mod. Normally, I’d just ask a specialist to add RGB and be done, but I already have another 3DO with both a 240p/480i switch + RGB. I want this MNEMO 3DO to stand out by also supporting HD signals, while still keeping the option for SD if I decide to switch TVs. For me, it’s all about having choices!

I look forward to your answers.

[BuckoA51]

I don't think PixelFX install it themselves but there are plenty of installers in the USA that are doing them.

It works in any 3DO except ANVIL models. ODE won't change anything.

Your best bet is to remove the 240p mod and use the output of the HDMI mod through a DAC (all PFX consoles have passthrough for 240p now). The HDMI mod grabs the raw unencoded 240p (no 3DO game actually outputs at 480i its just encoded to that for some reason) so the HDMI mod will give the very best results possible with no need to mess around with switches etc.

The mod is a total digital to digital solution. 1080p output max but if you've a Morph or RT4k you're better off putting it in passthrough and letting that do the scaling. This goes past what even an RGB mod could do PQ wise.

No need for a 240p/480i toggle as explained above. No need for a 240p/480i switch as explained above. You can use any DAC that supports 240p.

[bobrocks95]

1080p output max

Thought GEM Shiny's had 1440p output as well?

OP has a RetroTink 4K though so yeah just use direct mode (240p -> Tink -> 4K)

[BuckoA51]

1080p output max

Thought GEM Shiny's had 1440p output as well?

OP has a RetroTink 4K though so yeah just use direct mode (240p -> Tink -> 4K)

Duh yes of course it does... know your products Matt come on

[Rock Man]

I don't think PixelFX install it themselves but there are plenty of installers in the USA that are doing them.

Gotcha. Good thing I know a few guys in the US of A

It works in any 3DO except ANVIL models. ODE won't change anything.

That makes all 3DOs eligible, right? Score!!!!!

Your best bet is to remove the 240p mod and use the output of the HDMI mod through a DAC (all PFX consoles have passthrough for 240p now). The HDMI mod grabs the raw unencoded 240p (no 3DO game actually outputs at 480i its just encoded to that for some reason) so the HDMI mod will give the very best results possible with no need to mess around with switches etc.

In that case PixelHDMI > Normy RGB mod

PixelFX is the way to go.

The mod is a total digital to digital solution. 1080p output max but if you've a Morph or RT4k you're better off putting it in passthrough and letting that do the scaling. This goes past what even an RGB mod could do PQ wise.

When you say I'm better off using the Retrotink 4K or similar scaler, you meant in conjunction with the Pixel HDMI mod correct? So definitely not the Tink + 240p 3DO without the HDMI mod.

No need for a 240p/480i toggle as explained above. No need for a 240p/480i switch as explained above. You can use any DAC that supports 240p.

In that case, I’ll skip the switch request. Any DAC with 240p, meaning any scaler that supports 240p, right?

BuckoA51 you never cease to impress!

1080p output max

Thought GEM Shiny's had 1440p output as well?

OP has a RetroTink 4K though so yeah just use direct mode (240p -> Tink -> 4K)

Are you saying the Tink 4K can achieve a better picture without PixelHDMI, or do you mean I can set it up this way after acquiring the mod?

I heard about direct video once regarding the MiSTer. Haven't researched it yet, is it easy to set-up on the Tink?

[BuckoA51]

When you say I'm better off using the Retrotink 4K or similar scaler, you meant in conjunction with the Pixel HDMI mod correct? So definitely not the Tink + 240p 3DO without the HDMI mod.

If you want the absolute best picture quality then yes, use the HDMI mod in conjunction with your RT4K. All the PixelFX HDMI mods now have pass through mode, meaning they will feed the 240p signal digitally to your scaler, allowing it to fully process the image however you like it, a full digital to digital pathway from the console to your display. The retroGEM basic, available at a discount without 1080p/1440p, exists for this very reason, so that you can use your external 4K scaler for great results.

Any DAC with 240p, meaning any scaler that supports 240p, right?

Any of the big three scalers (OSSC Pro, TINK4K, Morph) support 240p input digitally. However, not all DACs (digital to analogue converters) do, so the steps to convert back from digital 240p to analogue to use with a CRT can be a little more complicated, but again if you want the absolute best PQ then this is the way to go. I'm not saying necessarily that it will look dramatically better than an RGB mod but at least you get around that weird interlace encoding the 3DO insists on doing, so unless you want the interlacing for nostalgia reasons this is the way to go assuming you can find all the gear/cables to do it.

I heard about direct video once regarding the MiSTer. Haven't researched it yet, is it easy to set-up on the Tink?

I don't own a RetroTINK 4k but I believe there's no set up at all, you just plug it in, the Tink4K detects it is 240p and processes it accordingly, including applying the optimal sampling if the signal contains the direct video metadata. What you do with the image then is of course up to your preferences.

[Rock Man]

If you want the absolute best picture quality then yes, use the HDMI mod in conjunction with your RT4K. All the PixelFX HDMI mods now have pass through mode, meaning they will feed the 240p signal digitally to your scaler, allowing it to fully process the image however you like it, a full digital to digital pathway from the console to your display. The retroGEM basic, available at a discount without 1080p/1440p, exists for this very reason, so that you can use your external 4K scaler for great results.

Retro Gem basic? There's a premium version if so how much would that cost?! o_O

At any rate I'll pick up the "basic" mod. Thanks to you and others, I can have this installed with a clear conscience.

Any of the big three scalers (OSSC Pro, TINK4K, Morph) support 240p input digitally. However, not all DACs (digital to analogue converters) do,

For example, using the old geezer XRGB-3 analogue converter to handle the 3DOPixelHD’s signal might result in a less desirable picture. I’d have better luck with something like the Framemeister, since it can handle older HD signals.

Not that I’d use them for an HD 3DO, but ideally the same logic for digital signals would also apply to the Tink 4.

so the steps to convert back from digital 240p to analogue to use with a CRT can be a little more complicated, but again if you want the absolute best PQ then this is the way to go.

I was hoping playing on my SD PVM would be as simple as grabbing a Retrovision cable and calling it a day. How complicated do you think it would be? Would I need one of Mike Chi’s digital (HDMI) to analog (SCART) converters? I’d like to keep the option open to use an HDMI 3DO on all TVs, but if that’s not possible, I’ll settle my UHD TV.

I'm not saying necessarily that it will look dramatically better than an RGB mod but at least you get around that weird interlace encoding the 3DO insists on doing, so unless you want the interlacing for nostalgia reasons this is the way to go assuming you can find all the gear/cables to do it.

Already have 2 other 3DOs with interlaced and deinterlaced analogue video (RGB+240p modded). It's time for a change!

I don't own a RetroTINK 4k but I believe there's no set up at all, you just plug it in, the Tink4K detects it is 240p and processes it accordingly, including applying the optimal sampling if the signal contains the direct video metadata. What you do with the image then is of course up to your preferences.

Easy mode then.

[BuckoA51]

Retro Gem basic? There's a premium version if so how much would that cost?! o_O

At any rate I'll pick up the "basic" mod. Thanks to you and others, I can have this installed with a clear conscience.

Premium is 60 USD more and you can upgrade any time (software unlock). Unless you plan to e.g take your 3DO over a friends place where you might need 1080p or 1440p scaling then just stick to the basic and let the scaler do the heavy lifting.

For example, using the old geezer XRGB-3 analogue converter to handle the 3DOPixelHD’s signal might result in a less desirable picture. I’d have better luck with something like the Framemeister, since it can handle older HD signals.

Not that I’d use them for an HD 3DO, but ideally the same logic for digital signals would also apply to the Tink 4.

Not really sure what you're getting at here, the Tink4K will handle all signals really well. It's been built from the ground up for this, no other product will give better results in this use case.

I was hoping playing on my SD PVM would be as simple as grabbing a Retrovision cable and calling it a day. How complicated do you think it would be? Would I need one of Mike Chi’s digital (HDMI) to analog (SCART) converters? I’d like to keep the option open to use an HDMI 3DO on all TVs, but if that’s not possible, I’ll settle my UHD TV.

Honestly depends on the display in question. Assuming your PVM can take component or RGB then it's definitely possible. In my setup I use the HD Fury 2 as that's the best DAC I've ever found, so if you pick one of those up on ebay or similar then you only have to go from DSUB15 (VGA connector) to whatever your PVM accepts.

I didn't know Mike was working on a DAC but I'd have no reason to doubt if he did that it'd be a high quality product.

One final consideration is the Gemegun, I've tested light guns on PS1 and Dreamcast using the HDMI mods in direct mode and they worked just fine (when using a DAC and a CRT, obviously, they won't work on a flat panel), but I've never tested it on the 3DO. It /should/ work like this, but I can't say for sure.

[Rock Man]

Premium is 60 USD more and you can upgrade any time (software unlock). Unless you plan to e.g take your 3DO over a friends place where you might need 1080p or 1440p scaling then just stick to the basic and let the scaler do the heavy lifting.

Software lock is that the menu that let's you overclock the 3DO to achieve 60Hz? The upgrade is the one I'll be getting then. I know overclocking if turned to high can brick your machine. I watched a video that said the 3DO should be okay at 60Hz what're your thoughts there?

Not really sure what you're getting at here, the Tink4K will handle all signals really well. It's been built from the ground up for this, no other product will give better results in this use case.

Wasn't trying to say there's a better upscaler, I was thinking about what the Pixel mod would look like on other digital upscalers in general. It's a curiosity type of deal. Ofc I'll use it with the Tink 4K.

Regarding your previous answer, something like a Framemeister or any other digital device would look great with it! That's what I gathered.

Honestly depends on the display in question. Assuming your PVM can take component or RGB then it's definitely possible. In my setup I use the HD Fury 2 as that's the best DAC I've ever found, so if you pick one of those up on ebay or similar then you only have to go from DSUB15 (VGA connector) to whatever your PVM accepts.

So, in my Trinitrons case it's BNC however it's connected via SCART matrix. SCART to BNC adapter cable links to the matrix, sounds like I would need some sort of HDMI to SCART cable. Is there a HDMI2SCART version of the HD Fury that I could use on my switchers?

I didn't know Mike was working on a DAC but I'd have no reason to doubt if he did that it'd be a high quality product.

One final consideration is the Gemegun, I've tested light guns on PS1 and Dreamcast using the HDMI mods in direct mode and they worked just fine (when using a DAC and a CRT, obviously, they won't work on a flat panel), but I've never tested it on the 3DO. It /should/ work like this, but I can't say for sure.

I imagine it would.

[Xan]

Had to look this up and damn, looks like they were inspired by what the car industry is doing. Next the features are going to be offered on a monthly subscription basis?

Also if the company ever ceases operations, this OTA upgrade business won't work as nobody will have any incentive to pay for the server that manages these licenses.

[Rock Man]

Had to look this up and damn, looks like they were inspired by what the car industry is doing. Next the features are going to be offered on a monthly subscription basis?

Also if the company ever ceases operations, this OTA upgrade business won't work as nobody will have any incentive to pay for the server that manages these licenses.

What do you mean by the OTA upgrade? Are we talking about the OSD menu?

Correct me if I'm wrong but after you implement the upgrades through the menu (post mod installation) they're baked in until you change them again.

[Johnpv]

Had to look this up and damn, looks like they were inspired by what the car industry is doing. Next the features are going to be offered on a monthly subscription basis?

Not really, this kind of thing isn't really anything new. Going back 20 - 30 years companies like Nvidia and AMD would sell the exact same hardware just with different drivers. You buy it as the Nvidia Gefore 210 and its 200 bucks but sucks for professional software, buy the same exact hardware as a Quadro card and its 2 grand and is amazing for professional software and sucks for games. Lots of stuff does this.

[BuckoA51]

Software lock is that the menu that let's you overclock the 3DO to achieve 60Hz? The upgrade is the one I'll be getting then. I know overclocking if turned to high can brick your machine. I watched a video that said the 3DO should be okay at 60Hz what're your thoughts there?

There's no overclocking in the RetroGEM, I'm not sure what gave you that idea.

Had to look this up and damn, looks like they were inspired by what the car industry is doing. Next the features are going to be offered on a monthly subscription basis?

It's a discount for people who aren't using the full software feature set of the board, because they have an external scaler. Would it have been better if they just charged the full price to everyone and not offered this discount? It's like moaning at Microsoft for charging you less for WIndows Home compared to Pro, even though they have exact same system requirements, how dare they save you money.

What do you mean by the OTA upgrade? Are we talking about the OSD menu?

All PixelFX products have over the air updating, you don't need to mess with SD cards etc just connect it to your Wifi and update.

Correct me if I'm wrong but after you implement the upgrades through the menu (post mod installation) they're baked in until you change them again.

You are not wrong that's exactly how it works. I suppose technically yes if PixelFX went bankrupt and their severs went down, and you had an old board that hadn't been updated, and they didn't open source the firmware or similar and nobody could reverse engineer it, I suppose then at that point it's at a disadvantage.

Is there a HDMI2SCART version of the HD Fury that I could use on my switchers

Nearly missed that, haha if only life was so simple. Things get messy here because SCART is composite sync and VGA is separate sync (plus a bunch of other complications usually to with European TVs). ArcadeForge's UMSA - https://arcadeforge.net/UMSA/UMSA-Ultim ... r::57.html should definitely work, though kind of overkill in your setup.

[Xan]

Well you are involved with selling the product, so it's no surprise that you wouldn't like my comment.

I don't mind a premium price if the product justifies it, however if a competitor does it without artificially gimping the firmware I know which approach I would support, just my personal opinion of course. Don't see how the comparisons with big corporations are flattering either considering this is a niche space focused on preservation.

[BuckoA51]

There aren't any HDMI mods I know of that have anything close to the feature set of the RetroGEM boards though. As I understand it the original plan was 2 boards (or even more) but since this is niche stuff anyway they decided it was simply better for everyone if it was just one board, but with a discount if you only used pass through/external scaler. Of course Microsoft do many douchy things but giving you a discount on Windows if you don't use some of its features isn't one of them.

I just think people over react... "oh my god 2 tier software what next adverts every time you boot a game, a monthly subscription??!" No, don't be absurd.