Prelude to the Apocalypse

[Lemnear]

But is it just my impression, or was this Charlie Kirk an idiot? I don't think anything dramatic happened, then.

[Marc]

Whether the a Billionaire like Soros lib hired a sniper or an extremely unhinged one with a big gun did it. The etchings of Antifa and Trans on the bullet do not help the situation

Isn't this already unproven bullshit?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Bullshit is Hoagie's chief stock-in-trade.

[BryanM]

It's what made the guy who shot Steve Scalise's balls off so unusual, in the meantime from that we've had nazis running over crowds of people, multiple lynchings, etc. Not to mention the guy who murdered a democrat and her husband in their sleep, and almost got two more.

Even li'l 'ole Joseph Stack, who was quoting the communist manifesto in his own manifesto when he flew his plane into an IRS building, was a selfish shithead that was more concerned with not being allowed to cheat on his taxes than anything else. Guy set his houses on fire, to make sure nobody else (including his family) could get them, putting the neighborhood at risk on top of the few poor low level IRS grunts forced to work after hours.

He shared more in common with the killdozer guy than the proles. Just imagine having enough money to own a killdozer or kamikaze plane and calling yourself a prole. Some kind of insane victim complex, that old joke of 'drama is when I slice my finger on a piece of paper, comedy is when you fall through an open manhole cover and die' but dialed up to the max.

Normal people don't want to live in a shitty world where people murder each other. That's the shitty world nazis want, so it's hardly any surprise they make up the vast bulk of political violence.

A lady on Youtube told the story of her ex-husband (who she met on OKCupid, after recognizing /fit/ memes with each other) and her young and stupid decision to basically immediately meet and move in with the guy. It was absolutely ridiculous... Aside from tearing off and not eating the skin of fried chicken... as thing after thing came out, I kept thinking what an absolute wreck of a human being this guy was. He had this absolute jewel of a woman, literally won the lottery that no man ever deserves to win.... and he was still a miserable, ungrateful piece of shit. That he'd rather she had a banana was one of the very least of his issues.

Fuckin' nazis man. Can't ever be happy about anything unless they're murderin' someone.

Abe's assassin's mom literally ruined herself because of the moonie's so he had a grudge. What lib was more than vaguely aware a man named Charlie Kirk even existed? And hated his guts, in particular, that much?

Rush Limbaugh was millions of times more famous, and that guy was never attacked once in his entire life. MLK got stabbed about once every week.

I mean yeah sure it's possible it was a trans person with a grudge, but I'm just thinking about the numbers here..... the right wing just cared far more. The not-as right wing and everyone to the left of that, never thought of this man at all. He was no Steve Bannon, and was never going to be in any feasible future timeline.

[BryanM]

Seriously, go read about the Groypers who hated him for being too woke and a race traitor.

[vol.2]

Bullshit is Hoagie's chief stock-in-trade.

That's a bit of an over-simplification.

Hoag is bringing with him a reservoir of preconceived notions about the way the world works and what the truth it.

I think it gets all the way to how people are able to find meaning in life, and how far they are willing go and how deep they are willing to dig in order to understand themselves and the world around them.

It's not bullshit to Hoag, it's very real. Or at least it's as real as it can be on the surface. I think it's clear from his repeated visits here and willingness to engage in the conversation that some part of him knows that there is more there, below the surface that he's ignoring. He can't possibly believe that he's going to change anyone's mind here.

But having a vague feeling that something in the Universe is not right, or that something is not what it seems, is not a viewpoint, and it's not a lens that you can filter your reality through.

Many people want as black and white of answer for everything as possible. Anything else is too messy and too far outside of their comfort zone. Like a child who will only eat hot dogs and chicken fingers.

Given all that, I'm not surprised that Kirk's death in particular hit home. I looked into Kirk's hate speech in recent days (as I'm sure a lot of people did) and it's clear that the one tenet he espoused above all others was a rejection of empathy, of the desire to feel bad about the suffering of others, something that seems to be very central to Hoag's world view.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Reports are coming out that the suspect is fairly young, and his father's a pastor or minister or something that turned him in. The suspect (or someone with/using his name) also apparently donated to Trump's campaign in 2020. If it's the same guy, unsurprisingly, the bullshit churned out almost immediately after the shooting has proven false, and it's entirely possible the shooter was someone who previously rooted for Team Trump or still does and went after Kirk for more personal reasons.

I wish people recognized how harmful social media's desire to crank out misinformation and wild speculation about crimes before we've had a couple weeks for a proper investigation is. Instant gratification culture at its worst.

[BryanM]

Looks like Sima might be the closest to being right.... what a weird age we live in, when normo liberals of all people are being radicalized.

I still want to believe in fascist in-fighting but reality is often disappointing. An unstable ideology based on killing people and taking their stuff oughtta have lots of interesting inner conflicts..

I think it gets all the way to how people are able to find meaning in life, and how far they are willing go and how deep they are willing to dig in order to understand themselves and the world around them.

A lot of kids have a hard time reconciling real life isn't a movie and we're all fail sons and fail daughters.

I wanted to be one of the guys who helped build god in a datacenter, but my circumstances made it impossible. That's not something you can do as an individual, and my early education in hickville wasn't exactly the best soil for my math and programming skills to develop. Being in the top 1% wouldn't have been enough, and the whole thing was as much a pipe dream as much as those who want to be a movie star like Arnold.

Everything else pales in importance in comparison to making god.

It's just like Elliot Rodger, they put so much stock in these external symbols for their self worth... If all they want to do all day is complain online about how other races and women suck, of course they're never going to have a girlfriend or the option to have a kid.

It's easier to try to push someone else down, than build oneself up. Words are easy and free. Learning shit and changing behaviors requires effort.

[Sima Tuna]

My best bet based on what I know of the facts is this:

This kid is somebody who was raised conservative, that we know. We know his family were gun owners who loved guns and he probably learned to shoot from them. He dressed as Trump for halloween once. Used to vote conservative.

What I think happened is the kid went to college, was exposed to more viewpoints and turned liberal. That's what happened to me, anyway (except I never killed anyone lol). At college, you encounter more people, learn more about life and you moderate your views. He probably was told about a lot of the shit Trump's regime is doing. Also, the shooter is likely one of these always-online types. Since he had memes and shit written on the bullets. So he heard all the stuff Trump is doing and maybe he felt betrayed by the youth pastor types AKA the Charlie Kirks of the world, who have been hard carrying water for the Administration.

The always-online part, as well as being young, white and male are all in line with a typical spree shooter or watchtower inhabitant. I would be surprised if he considers himself Republican today. The choice of victims was deliberate.

The individual shooter's story is not so important as how many chances Kirk had at these events to beef up his security before he finally pushed his luck too far. I'm really going all-in on blaming the victim now but don't tell me y'all don't lock your cars at night. Charlie Kirk pissed people off for a living. If anybody should have had good security, he's the one.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm really going all-in on blaming the victim now but don't tell me y'all don't lock your cars at night. Charlie Kirk pissed people off for a living. If anybody should have had good security, he's the one.

You are absolutely correct to blame the victim here. Charlie Kirk got exactly what he was asking for. If you spend your life getting rich telling people dead schoolchildren are an acceptable societal cost, and that empathy is a stupid, fake, hippie, new-age liberal emotion, and you expect to do these things without someone fantasizing about kicking your teeth in, you're frankly delusional.

Anyone who's studied the French Revolution that when you piss off a large enough group of people by wielding political power irresponsibly, and the populace feels that legal avenues for change are denied to them, eventually someone is going to resort to violence. We shouldn't have to resort to violence and it's always a tragedy when circumstances get to that point, but something that goes unspoken is that violence is always an option and indeed needs to be an option on the table when a regime or political actors get sufficiently bad and abusive enough towards their fellow citizens. Don't take my word for it either, America's founding fathers believed this and so it's exactly why America has the Second Amendment. And let's be clear: Charlie Kirk very clearly wielded insane political power despite how utterly garbage as a human he was, as demonstrated by how much the conservative movement ignored 9/11 memorials in order to lionize Charlie Kirk's memory even though he was a literal sociopath. Frankly they have no grounds to be whining about his sudden case of lead poisoning.

And no, this isn't a defense of gun ownership, especially not the kind in the USA where it's rampant and unchecked with no training or safety certification requirements, the point is the existence of the Second Amendment suggests that America's founding fathers were aware that violence is sometimes necessary as a desperate last resort even in polite society, one that should never be undertaken lightly. But that doesn't mean you literally need the entire populace owning semi-automatic guns and rifles, especially when said populace is drunk, irresponsible, impulsively angry, and refuses to treat it like owning a car with a licensing and safety requirement. You don't literally need guns to be able to fight fascism and people who say you do are lacking in imagination. Torches and pitchforks will get the job done if a mob's big and angry enough.

[BulletMagnet]

In addition to what's already been mentioned about Kirk's "mass shootings are the price we pay for freedom" rhetoric, he also called for "some amazing patriot" to bail out the guy who assaulted Nancy Pelosi's husband with a hammer. So he sung the praises not only of firearm proliferation, but vigilante violence. At least against the correct kind of people, of course.

No, he didn't deserve to die the way he did. But he sure as shit doesn't deserve the Presidential Medal of Freedom and flags lowered to half-staff.

[Hoagtech]

“Hey Fascist, Catch”

I now 180 my stance on the term fascist. I didn’t you guys hated my guts so much to the point of serial killing me?

I guess in your Paradox this is a fine example “suppressing Intolerance”

A lot of Israel and Epstein are not holding weight now that the killer is still alive and facing a death penalty with his own parents confessing him being hyper political.

You would need to go down an extreme rabbit hole of CIA brain control or something to make this narrative a reality. Although if he gets assassinated. I’ll rethink my probable stance and eat my hat

[orange808]

The violence of most revolutions is about consolidating power and eliminating rivals. The guillotine was mostly an instrument of calculation. It was there to help Robespierre eliminate rivals in a power vacuum. Once unleashed, it was there for his own power hungry rivals to take control--and kill him.

The inevitable power vacuum after a "revolution" almost NEVER ends well for us plebs. Modern world history is mostly a series of trading one grifter for another.

[orange808]

“Hey Fascist, Catch”

I now 180 my stance on the term fascist. I didn’t you guys hated my guts so much to the point of serial killing me?

I guess in your Paradox this is a fine example “suppressing Intolerance”

A lot of Israel and Epstein are not holding weight now that the killer is still alive and facing a death penalty with his own parents confessing him being hyper political.

You would need to go down an extreme rabbit hole of CIA brain control or something to make this narrative a reality. Although if he gets assassinated. I’ll rethink my probable stance and eat my hat

I told you to pass some fucking gun laws and that's all.

You're the one that wants to murder. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯ Looks like one of yours got loose on one of your own to me.

I still want fewer guns and I don't have one. I'm not happy about this, but you are.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

But he sure as shit doesn't deserve the Presidential Medal of Freedom and flags lowered to half-staff.

And remember that the flags weren't lowered by Trump when multiple Democrats were shot in Minnesota. Even worse, hypocrite Nancy Mace insisted that Democrats were to blame for Charlie Kirk's death but when a reporter asked if that meant Republicans were to blame for those deaths in Minnesota she immediately and callously brushed the suggestion aside with an "Are you kidding me?": https://www.instagram.com/reel/DOcCaffEniB/

The inevitable power vacuum after a "revolution" almost NEVER ends well for us plebs.

For sure, hence why violence as a means to an end is something that should never be considered unless all other avenues are exhausted. The problem is how do you decide what that point is and when the risk of bloody civil war is worth it? I have absolutely no idea, hence I don't advocate for violence as a resolution to political conflics!

[BulletMagnet]

One other very good question I heard from a commentator just a bit earlier:

In the wake of this event, hey, shouldn't Trump be sending the National Guard to the blood-soaked hellhole known as Utah to quell the out-of-control violence that the state obviously can't or won't handle itself?

[R79]

Turns out if this Charlie chap had been a Ballroom, the leader of the free world might still be interested in him

[orange808]

One other very good question I heard from a commentator just a bit earlier:

In the wake of this event, hey, shouldn't Trump be sending the National Guard to the blood-soaked hellhole known as Utah to quell the out-of-control violence that the state obviously can't or won't handle itself?

He might. There could be a lot of lone white guys with a gun in Utah.

I always heard this "Antifa" thing was transgendered and dark skinned with a big tall curly hairdo. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Anyhow, this dumb kid looks pasty white to me and the adam's apple on his neck suggests he's dressed to traditionally compliment his genitalia.

[Sima Tuna]

the adam's apple on his neck suggests he's dressed to traditionally compliment his genitalia.

I know I do! I often ask family members, "does this tie match my cock?" Much to their dismay.

[BryanM]

Kamala's book is coming out soon, excerpts are available. Lots of stuff we all saw with our eyes; Biden staff loathed the shit out of her and tried to undermine her. They are of course furious about this book already. It's all about their personal $$$$.

It's all very republican-like, crabs in the bucket type stuff. Predictable for people who care more about their prestige and money than anything else in the world.

They'd kill everyone else on the planet, if it earned them a single additional nickel in their bank account in the long run. Well, I guess we're all technically doing that already... burning the future for a little more bling and bullshit jobs in the present... and now we don't even have the bullshit jobs, quite as much....

[orange808]

Kamala's book is coming out soon, excerpts are available. Lots of stuff we all saw with our eyes; Biden staff loathed the shit out of her and tried to undermine her. They are of course furious about this book already. It's all about their personal $$$$.

It's all very republican-like, crabs in the bucket type stuff. Predictable for people who care more about their prestige and money than anything else in the world.

They'd kill everyone else on the planet, if it earned them a single additional nickel in their bank account in the long run. Well, I guess we're all technically doing that already... burning the future for a little more bling and bullshit jobs in the present... and now we don't even have the bullshit jobs, quite as much....

And, of course, Kamala paywalls the story and sells it at the opportunistic moment as a book--instead of an interview with one of the few remaining news sources.

Just making sure to point that out specifically. A real human being would have granted an exclusive interview with The Nation. She had to maximize the value, of course.

Could have rolled the story into a vigorous campaign endorsement for Mamdani.

She's a pantsuit centrist turd. Her campaign was trash. I held my nose and chose her, because I had no choice, but I hope her book fails miserably.

Bottom line message: "I should be the candidate again. It's Joe Biden's fault."

Can't get any more Republican than blaming Biden. Obviously, that's what she's really positioning herself to do: lose another election (and rake in money).

[system11]

Topic: murder of Charlie Kirk.

Following multiple valid complaints this thread now has me questioning if it can be allowed to stay open.

I'm going to have to think long and hard about that.

Personally I wasn't particularly aware of who he was, so I took the time to learn, watched a video. Even going from Wikipedia which is questionable especially on political figures, he sounds like a fairly run of the mill religious Conservative with a large following who liked to have debates. Not really my kind of thing honestly, but it seems to be in good faith, seemed like he was polite to political adversaries.

If that's your bar for someone who deserved to be murdered, or died by their own standards, or was a fascist, or a nazi, or anything even approaching those lines - quite honestly you have a really serious problem with rational perspective.

Now, that's just my opinion. That aside, following this post and until people calm down a bit, if I see anything that looks like excusing political violence or perpetuating extremist rhetoric that person earns a ban. It doesn't matter who you are or how long you've been here. Enough is enough. In fact it's probably best to avoid the subject.

[system11]

I'm trying to enjoy Infinity Nikki and just had to delete a bunch more posts since people thought this was a point for discussion rather than a request.

Also locking the topic for the weekend.