Yuzo Koshiro is making new MD shmup.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Someone on Reddit posted, recently, that loading the Earthion rom on a Krikzz Mega Everdrive X3 doesn't work but using an older Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 setup will allow you to run/play the Earthion MD/SG rom as well.

So the following MD/SG flash carts listed below will run the Earthion rom without a hitch:

1.) TerraOnion's MegaSD

2.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive Pro

and lastly,

3.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 (which has been replaced/succeeded by the newer Krikzz "Mega Everdrive Core" flashcart sold on Krikzz's website nowadays)

Am not sure if the older but still robust Krikzz Mega Everdrive X5 can run the Earthion rom though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ms. Tea]

Am not sure if the older but still robust Krikzz Mega Everdrive X5 can run the Earthion rom though.

Apparently it can't: https://old.reddit.com/r/everdrive/comm ... rdrive_x5/

Earthion is 8MB, and the Mega Everdrive X5 can only load ROMs up to 7MB. It works on higher end flashcarts because they've got a higher limit.

[Necronom]

Someone on Reddit posted, recently, that loading the Earthion rom on a Krikzz Mega Everdrive X3 doesn't work but using an older Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 setup will allow you to run/play the Earthion MD/SG rom as well.

So the following MD/SG flash carts listed below will run the Earthion rom without a hitch:

1.) TerraOnion's MegaSD

2.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive Pro

and lastly,

3.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 (which has been replaced/succeeded by the newer Krikzz "Mega Everdrive Core" flashcart sold on Krikzz's website nowadays)

Am not sure if the older but still robust Krikzz Mega Everdrive X5 can run the Earthion rom though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

There is another option that should work: the Mega X7 Ultra which is the next gen of Chinese everdrives. Goes for 80 to 90$ and supports large roms. Though I'm not sure what the maximum size is, it should work for Earthion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsZew6Yc0Oc

As a comparision:
Earthion is 7680 KB
Darius Extra 2020 is 4096 KB
ZPF is 4096 KB
P47 II MD is 1024 KB

The Chinese are currently selling Earthion cartridges for around 12$.

Edit: The Mega Everdrive Core CANNOT run Earthion because the limit is 7 MB.

[spmbx]

Are the roms for the updated version out there? The ones on archive.org are from july 31st, and i'm a bit out of the loop emu-wise

[AGermanArtist]

Are the roms for the updated version out there? The ones on archive.org are from july 31st, and i'm a bit out of the loop emu-wise

That is 2.01 (circular enemy bullets)
Try Ares

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Someone on Reddit posted, recently, that loading the Earthion rom on a Krikzz Mega Everdrive X3 doesn't work but using an older Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 setup will allow you to run/play the Earthion MD/SG rom as well.

So the following MD/SG flash carts listed below will run the Earthion rom without a hitch:

1.) TerraOnion's MegaSD

2.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive Pro

and lastly,

3.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 (which has been replaced/succeeded by the newer Krikzz "Mega Everdrive Core" flashcart sold on Krikzz's website nowadays)

Am not sure if the older but still robust Krikzz Mega Everdrive X5 can run the Earthion rom though.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

There is another option that should work: the Mega X7 Ultra which is the next gen of Chinese everdrives. Goes for 80 to 90$ and supports large roms. Though I'm not sure what the maximum size is, it should work for Earthion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsZew6Yc0Oc

As a comparision:
Earthion is 7680 KB
Darius Extra 2020 is 4096 KB
ZPF is 4096 KB
P47 II MD is 1024 KB

The Chinese are currently selling Earthion cartridges for around 12$.

Edit: The Mega Everdrive Core CANNOT run Earthion because the limit is 7 MB.

So then it'd be four flashcarts altogether capable of running/playing Earthion as follows:

1.) TerraOnion's MegaSD
2.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive Pro
3.) Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7
4.) Chinese Everdrive X7 Ultra

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[PC Engine Fan X!]

----------
Apparently, the Krikzz Mega Everdrive X5 flashcart can run both the MD/SG based Summer 2024 & Fall 2024 Earthion demos -- considering they're less than the 7 megabit rom size restriction maximum allowed (but still over the 6.4mb sizing factor, indeed). Still awesome, nevertheless, to be able to play them both just for the novelty factor alone. How cool is that?
----------

It's not all a "lost cause" and still worth keeping a Mega Everdrive X5 around and "on-hand at a moment's notice" just to be able to play your favorite stgs bar-none.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[spmbx]

It's not all a "lost cause" and still worth keeping a Mega Everdrive X5 around and "on-hand at a moment's notice" just to be able to play your favorite stgs bar-none.

Bar one, unless you enjoy playing demos instead of full games.

[Enemy]

I have added sram save of the high score table to earthion v2.01

I did it for myself but then thought others may be interested so I will post an ips patch on one of the sites so others who have purchased the steam version and obtained the roms can patch earthionv2.01 to add the sram high saving.

Just interested to see if there was any interest here for such a patch

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I have added sram save of the high score table to earthion v2.01

I did it for myself but then thought others may be interested so I will post an ips patch on one of the sites so others who have purchased the steam version and obtained the roms can patch earthionv2.01 to add the sram high saving.

Just interested to see if there was any interest here for such a patch

Yes, that'd be awesome to have Sram saving functionality with the Earthion rom indeed, fellow shmupper Enemy. As it is, the "plain vanilla" Earthion v2.01 rom doesn't save such scores for posterity/safekeeping as it is with "warts and all." It's well-known that the Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 and Pro based flashcarts do have Sram saving functionality on-board (which is quite a nice perk to have).

----------
How would one apply this particular Sram patch anyways using what app/program to integrate it properly so that it works from the "get-go" as intended?
----------

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[AGermanArtist]

Yes please. I'll be playing the rom/MD until the console version arrives.

[Enemy]

Glad to hear interest

I have tested on mister fpga and blastem emu on pc (not sure which other emulators support over 4/6mb) and all ok.

I have a friend who has everdrive pro and another that has everdrive x7 so sent to them to test

[Enemy]

I have added sram save of the high score table to earthion v2.01

I did it for myself but then thought others may be interested so I will post an ips patch on one of the sites so others who have purchased the steam version and obtained the roms can patch earthionv2.01 to add the sram high saving.

Just interested to see if there was any interest here for such a patch

Yes, that'd be awesome to have Sram saving functionality with the Earthion rom indeed, fellow shmupper Enemy. As it is, the "plain vanilla" Earthion v2.01 rom doesn't save such scores for posterity/safekeeping as it is with "warts and all." It's well-known that the Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 and Pro based flashcarts do have Sram saving functionality on-board (which is quite a nice perk to have).

----------
How would one apply this particular Sram patch anyways using what app/program to integrate it properly so that it works from the "get-go" as intended?
----------

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

You would use an online ips patcher... select your earthion v2.01 rom and my ips patch... click patch and point where the new patched rom should be saved and voila ... load the patched rom saved and highs are then saved ... it automatically loads on start and as long as you wait the couple of seconds after you enter your name without turning your md off (wait for earthion title screen) its has run the save routine

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Some of the better dedicated MD/SG based arcade sticks to use when playing Earthion include the following listed below:

The original Sega MegaDrive Power Arcade Stick has a micro-switched based joystick (whereas with the USA region Sega Genesis Arcade Power Stick sold at retail courtesy of Sega of America, it uses a non-clicky joystick using rubber controller membrane interface instead): https://www.ebay.com/itm/303846848398?_ ... BMzKnoj5dm

The Asciiware Power Clutch SG arcade stick is awesome on a MD/SG console setup in that it has on-board auto-fire for up to 28 shots per second maximum (if the auto-fire pentiometer-based dial is cranked up to the maximum setting) + slo-motion functionality as well. It uses a non-clicky joystick with rubber controller membrane as it's joystick input interface (but still quite responsive nevertheless). In Japan, this particular Mega Drive arcade stick is known as the Cluster Stick E's with model #CS-3000MD: https://www.ebay.com/itm/296865019784?_ ... R8b1o4-XZg

Asciiware followed up with the Sega Genesis "Fighter Stick SG6" update/upgrade (including "hands-free" auto-fire functionality as well for all six buttons -- how cool is that?): https://www.ebay.com/itm/205472657904?_ ... R7SBgp6XZg

The Capcom Power Stick GS is a micro-switched based joystick and can be configured for either a 4-way or more traditional 8-way joystick on the MD/SG consoles and has built-in auto-fire + slo-mo functionality if it needed be -- these were manufactured in Japan, indeed, with the USA region Sega Genesis variant being offered here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/326723261226?_ ... R8rNupCXZg

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[PC Engine Fan X!]

There's a single brand new copy of the Krikzz Mega Everdrive X7 flashcart left for sale on Amazon (you'd need to buy an up to 32gb sized microSDHC memory card to load up your favorite MD/SG roms and you're good to go): https://www.amazon.com/Mega-EverDrive-X ... 233&sr=8-2

Krikzz's website store front doesn't even sell the Mega Everdrive X7 setup anymore (but does offer support with it's latest MegaOS at version 3.16 as of right now).

I broke down and bought one myself just to properly play Earthion as originally intended on real Sega Genesis hardware and no less than that -- great price/a steal at the asking $109.99 usd currently right now on Amazon if you were to ask me.

This particular Genesis flashcart has the required SVP chip on-board allowing you the ability to play the Sega SVP-powered Virtua Racing title (that came with a whopping MSRP of $99.99 usd back in 1994-1995 brand new at retail courtesy of Sega of America themselves). It also allows you to boot up/play the MD/Genesis port of Earthion in it's entirety as well.

It has built-in support for up to a 32gb microSDHC card (which is plenty of space for all your MD/SG gaming needs indeed). Plus with Artemio's "240p Suite Genesis" utility app, you can tweak your old-school CRT-based RGB monitor to look at it's "razor-sharp" best with your favorite MD/SG games galore -- quite a versatile utility app as it is.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Enemy]

I have now tested and ready to release the SRAM High Table save patch for Earthion V2.01 (world) eng patch.

I have registered to a couple of rom hacking sites to post the bps patch. I would imagine posting the ACTUAL patch here is against the rules but let me know if ok and i will post here as well.

I also want to setup a whatsapp group for megadrive/genesis rom hacking to discuss further sram high saves and also trainers activated via a trainer menu (trainer active then high wont save)

My background is that i loved the commodore c64 and found that disk wise some of my favourite games didnt save high scores, from there i tasked myself to learn 6502/6510 asm and the c64 hardware to then write high score savers for my fav games that didnt have them, a position opened up to test for EXCESS for the c64 so i jumped at the chance which allowed me then to gain experience via the crackers to make me the c64 cracker i am today. I now work under the c64 group TREX where we focus on Jewel releases which included adding high savers/high tables/extra content etc to old c64 games as well as the usual trainers but try to go further than most on trainers as well.

For some time i thought the same on the consoles as adding sram to a cartridge just to save high scores back in the day wasnt going to happen, earthion came out and so i thought why not plunge yourself into learning 68000 asm code, md/gen hw including vdp to show my credit msg and sram coding to read/write.

i do want to look at the snes as well which has a main cpu opcode set similar to the c64

Anyway i do most of my cracks for myself (some for friends) but hope any i do will be liked by others.

..... I think it is time to get back to looking at revenge of shinobi (looking to code a high table and trainers on this)

TheEnemy of [TREX]
TREX on CSDB point browser to: https://csdb.dk/group/?id=12001
regards Alex

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I have now tested and ready to release the SRAM High Table save patch for Earthion V2.01 (world) eng patch.

I have registered to a couple of rom hacking sites to post the bps patch. I would imagine posting the ACTUAL patch here is against the rules but let me know if ok and i will post here as well.

I also want to setup a whatsapp group for megadrive/genesis rom hacking to discuss further sram high saves and also trainers activated via a trainer menu (trainer active then high wont save)

My background is that i loved the commodore c64 and found that disk wise some of my favourite games didnt save high scores, from there i tasked myself to learn 6502/6510 asm and the c64 hardware to then write high score savers for my fav games that didnt have them, a position opened up to test for EXCESS for the c64 so i jumped at the chance which allowed me then to gain experience via the crackers to make me the c64 cracker i am today. I now work under the c64 group TREX where we focus on Jewel releases which included adding high savers/high tables/extra content etc to old c64 games as well as the usual trainers but try to go further than most on trainers as well.

For some time i thought the same on the consoles as adding sram to a cartridge just to save high scores back in the day wasnt going to happen, earthion came out and so i thought why not plunge yourself into learning 68000 asm code, md/gen hw including vdp to show my credit msg and sram coding to read/write.

i do want to look at the snes as well which has a main cpu opcode set similar to the c64

Anyway i do most of my cracks for myself (some for friends) but hope any i do will be liked by others.

..... I think it is time to get back to looking at revenge of shinobi (looking to code a high table and trainers on this)

TheEnemy of [TREX]
TREX on CSDB point browser to: https://csdb.dk/group/?id=12001
regards Alex

For Enemy,

Will your Earthion S-Ram patch work with the earlier rom release as well? Please post a link so others with a Krikzz Mega Everdrive Pro or X7 setup can benefit from it.

----------
Some highly regarded MD/Genesis stg IPs include Thunderforce III, Thunderforce IV/Lightening Force and Elemental Master that don't have built-in high score saving & high score initial saving functionality whatsoever -- that'd be awesome to have S-Ram functionality applied to those particular MD/SG stgs indeed.
----------

Makes me wonder if the upcoming Limited Run Games produced MD/SG Earthion carts will have S-Ram on-board for saving of both high scores & high score initials for safekeeping/posterity + higher bitrate BGM tunes with a FPGA setup = the best & ultimate ideal consumer mass-produced MD/SG cart release that the dollar/yen/pound could buy nowadays.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[bbbhltz]

LRG will do whatever is cheapest for them to produce, not what is best for the customer.

[spmbx]

A cart with some FPGA and custom sound or whatever would be the absolute worst of the worst. I absolutely loathe added custom non-original and useless FPGA addons.

[Sumez]

If any on-cart logic (like for dynamic address mapping) is required, FPGA sounds like a logical choice, though? What's wrong with it?

[spmbx]

If any on-cart logic (like for dynamic address mapping) is required, FPGA sounds like a logical choice, though? What's wrong with it?

Why would it be necessary? The current dump runs fine as a rom without any custom stuff.

[Sumez]

If it's not necessary, it's not necessary. What is your point then?

[spmbx]

That i very much disagree with the earlier claim that said "higher bitrate BGM tunes with a FPGA setup = the best & ultimate ideal consumer mass-produced MD/SG cart release".

"yeah i like megadrive, i just don't like that it's not fast enough, doesn't have enough colors, the bitrate is too low and there is not enough rom space, and the controllers have too few buttons"

[Enemy]

I have now tested and ready to release the SRAM High Table save patch for Earthion V2.01 (world) eng patch.

I have registered to a couple of rom hacking sites to post the bps patch. I would imagine posting the ACTUAL patch here is against the rules but let me know if ok and i will post here as well.

I also want to setup a whatsapp group for megadrive/genesis rom hacking to discuss further sram high saves and also trainers activated via a trainer menu (trainer active then high wont save)

My background is that i loved the commodore c64 and found that disk wise some of my favourite games didnt save high scores, from there i tasked myself to learn 6502/6510 asm and the c64 hardware to then write high score savers for my fav games that didnt have them, a position opened up to test for EXCESS for the c64 so i jumped at the chance which allowed me then to gain experience via the crackers to make me the c64 cracker i am today. I now work under the c64 group TREX where we focus on Jewel releases which included adding high savers/high tables/extra content etc to old c64 games as well as the usual trainers but try to go further than most on trainers as well.

For some time i thought the same on the consoles as adding sram to a cartridge just to save high scores back in the day wasnt going to happen, earthion came out and so i thought why not plunge yourself into learning 68000 asm code, md/gen hw including vdp to show my credit msg and sram coding to read/write.

i do want to look at the snes as well which has a main cpu opcode set similar to the c64

Anyway i do most of my cracks for myself (some for friends) but hope any i do will be liked by others.

..... I think it is time to get back to looking at revenge of shinobi (looking to code a high table and trainers on this)

TheEnemy of [TREX]
TREX on CSDB point browser to: https://csdb.dk/group/?id=12001
regards Alex

For Enemy,

Will your Earthion S-Ram patch work with the earlier rom release as well? Please post a link so others with a Krikzz Mega Everdrive Pro or X7 setup can benefit from it.

----------
Some highly regarded MD/Genesis stg IPs include Thunderforce III, Thunderforce IV/Lightening Force and Elemental Master that don't have built-in high score saving & high score initial saving functionality whatsoever -- that'd be awesome to have S-Ram functionality applied to those particular MD/SG stgs indeed.
----------

Makes me wonder if the upcoming Limited Run Games produced MD/SG Earthion carts will have S-Ram on-board for saving of both high scores & high score initials for safekeeping/posterity + higher bitrate BGM tunes with a FPGA setup = the best & ultimate ideal consumer mass-produced MD/SG cart release that the dollar/yen/pound could buy nowadays.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Pc Engine Fan

it wont work with the earlier release of Earthion as the hijack points on where it loads and saves would be different, if enough interest for a patch for the original version then it is something i can do but i thought no one would be interested.

as for a link to the patch I am just awaiting test on the X7 .. tested working on mister fpga, everdrive pro but not as yet on the X7 and i have read the x7 only gives access to the upper part of sram from $240000 when bank switching for over 4mb is used, if this is the case then i will have to look into either a separate patch or maybe just shift where it saves to $240000

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Some cool MD/SG based accessories and add-ons to further enhance your gameplay with Earthion:

1.) A 3D-printed 8" RGB endowed LCD monitor setup for the Mega Drive 1/Sega Genesis 1 setup (is mono sound output only through the 9-Din rgb cable interface {even though the LCD monitor is wired up for stereo sound output -- will require a 1/8th" stereo headphone jack mod to the LCD monitor itself for true MD/SG 1 console stereo sound support}): https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568089 ... pt=glo2usa On the backside of the 8" LCD monitor, there are controls to adjust the monitor settings to your preferred tastes/liking.

2.) Here's the MD2/SG2 variant 3D-printed 8" RGB endowed LCD monitor (with proper "stereo sound support" the second time around): https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568088 ... 4itemAdapt You can even use a PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16 console with a Krikzz Turbo Everdrive Pro + ED-FX add-on = proper stereo sound output, indeed, with this particular 8" LCD monitor setup (thus making it a "true" dual purpose portable monitor as it is).

3.) Sega Saturn controller to Sega MD/SG DB-9 controller adapter: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568059 ... in_prod%3A You can use both Sega Saturn officially released 1st-party and 3rd-party licensed gamepads and arcade sticks with the Mega Drive/Sega Genesis gaming consoles as so desired.

4.) Portable 3.5" LCD monitor for MD/SG console: https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568057 ... in_prod%3A Comes with a mini-sized fob controller remote to adjust the 3.5" monitor's settings to your desired tastes/liking.

5.) The more afforfable and cheaper "Mega X7 Ultra" flashcart for MD/SG (Chinese variant version of Krikzz's famous and well-regarded "Mega Everdrive Pro" flashcart setup): https://www.aliexpress.us/item/32568083 ... tOiATDPn2M

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On the MD/SG Earthion rom itself, there is built-in on-board support for both the "old-school" 3-button gamepads & arcade sticks + support for the "newer" 6-button endowed gamepads & arcade sticks customizable through the Menu screen setup. Developer & publisher Ancient was wise to include both 3-button & 6-button support from the "get-go" with the MD/SG Earthion rom release.
----------

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Sumez]

That i very much disagree with the earlier claim that said "higher bitrate BGM tunes with a FPGA setup = the best & ultimate ideal consumer mass-produced MD/SG cart release".

"yeah i like megadrive, i just don't like that it's not fast enough, doesn't have enough colors, the bitrate is too low and there is not enough rom space, and the controllers have too few buttons"

That I can agree with.
I've made that point before, I think in regards to Paprium or something similar, where IMO if a game isn't actually running on the MegaDrive, it's not really a MegaDrive game. Surprisingly a lot of people disagree with that.

The typical counterargument would be something like Starfox. But I'd also argue that Starfox is more of a SuperFX game.

[MintyTheCat]

That i very much disagree with the earlier claim that said "higher bitrate BGM tunes with a FPGA setup = the best & ultimate ideal consumer mass-produced MD/SG cart release".

"yeah i like megadrive, i just don't like that it's not fast enough, doesn't have enough colors, the bitrate is too low and there is not enough rom space, and the controllers have too few buttons"

That I can agree with.
I've made that point before, I think in regards to Paprium or something similar, where IMO if a game isn't actually running on the MegaDrive, it's not really a MegaDrive game. Surprisingly a lot of people disagree with that.

The typical counterargument would be something like Starfox. But I'd also argue that Starfox is more of a SuperFX game.

I'd argue that it is not say the CPU - the 68000 that makes the Megadrive "the Megadrive" but it is the Megadrive's VDP ultimately that makes Paprium and other released games Megadrive games.

How the Megadrive looks is vital to this : you cannot add more colours, graphic modes, resolutions, etc. to what the stock MD VDP allows. These are limits to what the VDP can produce.

Considering that nearly all of the heavy work on a MD game rests on "feeding the VDP" : DMA copying data into VRAM, updating the CRAM, etc. demonstrates this.

Plus, with the exception of Virtua Racing [1] and Paprium, all the rest of the games released for the Megadrive were using standard hardware. Street Fighter II has some extra banking logic - nothing special.

If you wish to form the argument that "it is not an X game due to A cartridge hardware" then look at the famicom and Super famicom - a very large proportion of those games feature custom chips, but they still are limited to what the FC / SFC's VDP can perform.

This argument that a game "isn't a proper game" due to the presence of custom chips is pointless.


[1] https://segaretro.org/Virtua_Racing

[Sumez]

I'd argue that it is not say the CPU - the 68000 that makes the Megadrive "the Megadrive" but it is the Megadrive's VDP ultimately that makes Paprium and other released games Megadrive games.

I understand your point, but it is also the CPU(s), sound chip, DMA channels, etc. The console is the combination of all the hardware inside it. Of course, the graphics is arguably the most prominent part of a console's features (which makes advertising them as "16 bit consoles" even more laughable), so at least I understand where you're coming from. But..

If you wish to form the argument that "it is not an X game due to A cartridge hardware" then look at the famicom and Super famicom - a very large proportion of those games feature custom chips, but they still are limited to what the FC / SFC's VDP can perform.

If you want to be technical, I really do think those chips also form the identity of those games, outside of just what the SNES is. This is exactly why I brought that up in my previous post.

The SuperFX chip again is the most notable example due to its ability to quickly transform polygons. Its output was then fed to the graphics chip (PPU) memory, in a manner that basically bypasses its design rather than playing into it, drawing lines and surfaces across multiple tiles, as opposed to using the tiles to build a nametable map. As such, the graphics you get in a game like Starfox or Virtua Racing is not really representative of the console's hardware, even if it still needs to comply to most of its limitations.

Another good example would be exactly the thing spmbx brought up. You could just use a gigantic ROM size and feed music as a continuous streaming DMC sample. It's technically doable on the MegaDrive, but if you think of "MegaDrive music", is that really what you think of?
I think this distinction is less important when looking at contemporary commercial games, since obviously they would need every trick in the book to look as advanced as possible, and if it was affordable to have an entirely sample based soundtrack, they definitely would have. But in the context of homebrew/aftermarket games, you also gotta look at intent. We live in 2025, everything is possible compared to what these games did. You could just *NOT* program for old consoles, and make an Unreal Engine game on PC which doesn't have to care about palettes or sprite size limitations.

To *ME*, what I'm looking for when I'm programming old console hardware, is something representative of those consoles - I'm choosing to not rely on modern hardware. Otherwise why would I even care about it? Other homebrewers might have different intent, and it's definitely not up to me to decide what anyone can or can't do - anything you can do is interesting. You could put a CPU capable of running an Unreal Engine game inside a MegaDrive cartridge and then do your best to translate that into something the VDP could render. And for sure that would be interesting as fuck, I would never claim otherwise. The only thing I'd claim is that it's not strictly a MegaDrive game Your standard might be different, but you gotta put a threshold somewhere.

This argument that a game "isn't a proper game" due to the presence of custom chips is pointless.

Let's be 100% clear here for a moment - no such claim was ever made!

[MintyTheCat]

Sumez:

yes, there are corner cases, but for the most part it really comes down to the VDP and architecture.

I'd argue that it is the VDP and the standard audio hardware that define the machine, as, well, that's what most developers had to utilise.

It is possible to mix in audio on the MD, but think about when the machine was made: memory would have been rather expensive back then, so sure, it was technically possible but unlikely due to economic constraints - the NeoGeo being a premium machine based in the arcade had an entirely different customer profile and the economics were entirely different, and hence, lots of chips were used on a NeoGeo cart.

As I understand it, and I really dislike the Fonzie of Water Melon infamy, but, it still uses the PSG and the YM2612 but they added extra audio channels on-board the cart that is effectively "streamed" and mixed by the MD's audio hardware, with much of the character again being limited by the mixer hardware itself and any DACs and such in the signal path.

If I say 68000 it could be something used on the Amiga, the Atari ST, NeoGeo, MD, CPS1, etc.
But it's hardly the point : it doesn't matter *how* I talk to the hardware - the means, i.e. the CPU or the steps I have to take but rather that I talk to the hardware because that is what's unique to the platform.

Instead, I focus on the VDP and audio hardware.

Of course, the YM2413, YM2612 and YM2610 are all "FM Synthesis chips" but they are all different with each allowing a differing number of modes, voice slots, FM Operators, FM Algorithms, etc. but they are all FM.

The NeoGeo being a machine that didn't mind spending money on extra PROM chips for audio and graphic data made it more likely that larger samples could be utlised - it all occupies memory, and so the sound of the NeoGeo is quite different to the MD which had the YM2612 and the PSG.

When I think of say a famicom game the first thing that I tend to focus on is the colour palette offered and the limit on sprites per line which lead often to that "vanishing sprite effect".

Sumez:

To *ME*, what I'm looking for when I'm programming old console hardware, is something representative of those consoles - I'm choosing to not rely on modern hardware. Otherwise why would I even care about it? Other homebrewers might have different intent, and it's definitely not up to me to decide what anyone can or can't do - anything you can do is interesting. You could put a CPU capable of running an Unreal Engine game inside a MegaDrive cartridge and then do your best to translate that into something the VDP could render. And for sure that would be interesting as fuck, I would never claim otherwise. The only thing I'd claim is that it's not strictly a MegaDrive game Your standard might be different, but you gotta put a threshold somewhere.

I have long argued that to not know the hardware of the MD, to effectively allow others to make decisions and such, to not know how this fairly limited piece of gear works, how to optimise it, how to gain insight into how it executes, etc. all of this leads to sub-standard execution.

When you say "not choosing to rely on modern hardware" do you mean adding extra processors and such or do you mean that your devtools and machines are also of the same spec to the late 80s/early 90s?

I'd say that it is more about developing decent gaming software for the MD and indeed any other console.

If you can get it to execute on the MD then it is a "MD game" - it isn't running some instance of VNC

But for the vast majority of recent homebrew efforts on the MD : many folks lack the low-level experience to write decent software, you can utilise profilers and coverage tools, use logic analysers and In-Circuit-Emulators to gain insight into how the software executes and this will lead the developer to determine where to optimise and how to ensure good performance - after all, a game must perform and be fun to play and interactive - no one wants to experience too much slowdown and a lack of response to control.

I have been a long-term user of UMDK[1] which gives me many useful services and especially the trace mode that allows the developer the means to analyse how their software is executing on the MD hardware.

One chap put up a video demonstrating UMDK's GDB in action [2].

I have some additions to the project that have not been integrated into the repo yet, and I also wish to develop some more tools to help provide insight from the traces.

Just to add: most MD games are in some kind of "Game Loop", there are VBlank and Non-VBlank phases, your main issue for most of the time it to prepare to DMA graphics, sprite and colour data on the VBlank as the DMA is much faster during this phase, so it is a kind of strange *juggling act* really.

Trying disassembling a few commercial MD ROMs or have a look at Sonic 1 as there's a decent project with a repo that is well documented [3].

[1] https://github.com/makestuff/umdkv2
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPK5c4-eEEo
[3] https://github.com/sonicretro/s1disasm

[Sumez]

It is possible to mix in audio on the MD, but think about when the machine was made: memory would have been rather expensive back then, so sure, it was technically possible but unlikely due to economic constraints

Well that is the exact point I'm making, so you do get it then

If I say 68000 it could be something used on the Amiga, the Atari ST, NeoGeo, MD, CPS1, etc.
But it's hardly the point : it doesn't matter *how* I talk to the hardware - the means, i.e. the CPU or the steps I have to take but rather that I talk to the hardware because that is what's unique to the platform.

The MegaDrive VDP is not unique to the platform either. The system is built almost entirely from off-the-shelf components.

When you say "not choosing to rely on modern hardware" do you mean adding extra processors and such or do you mean that your devtools and machines are also of the same spec to the late 80s/early 90s?

When I say "not choosing to rely on modern hardware" I mean I'm making a game for (insert old console system here) and not for a 2025 consumer PC.
I get your point about tools etc., but that wasn't what I was talking about, it was just worded a bit dumb.

Just to add: most MD games are in some kind of "Game Loop", there are VBlank and Non-VBlank phases, your main issue for most of the time it to prepare to DMA graphics, sprite and colour data on the VBlank as the DMA is much faster during this phase, so it is a kind of strange *juggling act* really.

This is true for pretty much any type of video game hardware, and even affects modern computers as well in a similar way, even though they don't rely on CRT vblank periods. This is why you have concepts like "vsync" in much newer games. To avoid glitchy graphics you always want to buffer what's relevant for the next frame before it starts getting processed by the video hardware.