Gradius (Nemesis)

[Despatche]

Previous threads: 1 2
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Defaults except for the PSP version, see below. Please, I beg of you, do not use non-defaults for this game. There are too many versions, too many tables, too much madness as is.

The arcade game has tons of differences between versions, described here. The DS Konami arcade collection, which has a different name for each region for some reason, appears to have Nemesis version D in it, which for some reason has the Gradius logo on it in... non-Japan versions?

Apparently Deluxe Pack has various differences too, though at least Portable is based on it. If playing the PSP version, set "Hit Size" and difficulty to Normal, and screen size to Arcade.

Not sure about the X68000 version yet. I'm not aware of any differences between the FC versions.
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Please post scores in this format:

Code: Select all

GAME - VERSION
NAME - SCORE - STAGE - AUTOFIRE - DETAILS

GAME is for whether you played arcade, FC, and so on. VERSION is for those platforms that have actual different versions, such as arcade Gradius which has at least three known versions. DETAILS is for which emulator build/program version or which release/console you may have used.
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Arcade versions
Gradius (version A)

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 1. Aquas          -   982,100 - 2-7 - ??? - MAME
 2. LMN            -   916 300 - 2-7 - ??? - PS4
 3. Prickly Angler -   835 300 - 3-1 - Yes - PS4
 4. Fu             -   828,900 - 2-6 - ??? - MAME
 5. Smraedis       -   565,000 - 2-1 - ??? - MAME
 6. Edge           -   526,300 - 1-7 - ??? - MAME
 7. Shatterhand    -   511,900 - 2-2 - ??? - MAME
 8. mar            -   464,700 - 2-1 - Yes - Switch
 9. Harpuia        -   414,400 - 2-2 - ??? - FB Alpha
10. KoopaTGR       -   393,700 - 1-7 - ??? - MAME
11. Comico         -   382.600 - 2.1 - ??? - Switch (Unconfirmed)
12. Shepardus      -   376,100 - 1-7 - ??? - MAME
13. Ransom         -   371,000 - 2-2 - ??? - MAME
14. friedrich      -   340,100 - 2-1 - ??? - PS4
15. Nahar          -   335 200 - 2-1 - ??? - MAME v0.233 (Bubble)
16. crithit5000    -   326,000 - 1-7 - ??? - MAME
17. chum           -   309,600 - 2-2 - ??? - MAME
18. Blue Lander    -   308,200 - 2-1 - ??? - X68000
19. M.Knight       -   117,100 - 1-4 - ??? - ShmupMAME v4.2

Nemesis (version D) (so-called "US" version)

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 1. KoopaTGR       -   529,300 - 2-3 - ??? - MAME
 2. Prickly Angler -   471 500 - 2-2 - Yes - PS4
 3. Shepardus      -   412,000 - 2-2 - ??? - MAME
 4. doctorx0079    -   392,700 - 2-2 - ??? - DS

Nemesis (version E) (so-called "World"/"UK" version)

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 1. Prickly Angler -   450 200 - 2-2 - Yes - PS4

Gradius Deluxe Pack (and Portable)

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 1. dannnnn        - 1,023,100 - 2-7 - ??? - SS
 2. saucykobold    - 1,009,600 - 3-3 - ??? - PS
 3. PlasmaBlooD    -   832,900 - 2-7 - ??? - PS
 4. Icarus         -   739,900 - 2-7 - ??? - SS
 5. MSZ            -   676,900 - 2-4 - ??? - PS
 6. Zach Keene     -   632,600 - 2-3 - ??? - SS
 7. AmidstStorm    -   624,200 - 2-3 - ??? - SS
 8. Xeno           -   559,200 - 2-3 - ??? - SS
 9. MJR            -   478,400 - 2-2 - ??? - PS
10. AVE            -   468,100 - 2-2 - ??? - SS
11. rantak         -   462,100 - 2-1 - ??? - PSP
12. mydyinghyde    -   459,800 - 2-2 - ??? - PSP
13. elbarto        -   453,200 - 2-2 - ??? - SS
14. JoshF          -   447,400 - 2-2 - ??? - SS
15. Dylan1CC       -   443,400 - 2-1 - ??? - PSP
16. Kollision      -   426,600 - 2-2 - ??? - SS
17. ryz            -   415,000 - 2-2 - ??? - PSP
18. ktg            -   413,100 - 2-1 - ??? - PS
19. Prickly Angler -   407 200 - 2-1 - Yes - SS
20. RFP            -   385,000 - 2-1 - ??? - SS
21. EmperorIng     -   381,400 - 2-1 - ??? - SS
22. CIT            -   366,200 - 2-2 - ??? - SS
23. rantak         -   358,100 - 2-1 - ??? - PSP
24. Bloodreign     -   346,800 - 1-7 - ??? - SS
25. spadgy         -   340,500 - 1-7 - ??? - PS

Family Computer version

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 1. HAN            - 3,345,000 - 6-6 - ??? - MAME (Vs. Gradius)
 2. Xeno           - 2,269,600 - 4-7
 3. Galaxius       - 2,125,800 - 4-6
 4. PlasmaBlooD    - 1,813,000 - 3-7
 5. tinotormed     - 1,773,900 - 3-7
 6. EricDaNerd     - 1,670,200 - 3-6
 7. Edge           - 1,369,600 - 3-3
 8. Despatche      - 1,139,400 - 2-7 - ??? - FCE Ultra
 9. MSZ            - 1,113,400 - 2-7
10. aventus        - 1,095,500 - 2-5
11. chum           - 1,010,500 - 3-2
12. winteR         -   962,000 - 2-7
13. Kollision      -   952,900 - 2-6
14. SAM            -   817,100 - 2-3
15. Chico          -   726,300 - 2-3
16. Zach Keene     -   527,200 - 1-7
17. atheistgod1999 -   488,800 - 2-1
18. VixyNyan       -   411,400 - 1-7

[Despatche]

I am hoping for more clarification on Deluxe Pack and Portable differences. I am also hoping for more clarification on the accuracy of the X68000 version.

At some point I should probably merge the PC Engine tables into these threads. I'd also like to know if the Konami MSX thread needs to be remade, in which case some of those tables should get moved around too.

Honestly, do we really need Nemesis tables? Like, do we really need them?

[Prickly Angler]

Thanks a lot for reopenning the ranking !

So far here are the differences affecting gameplay I've noted between Deluxe Pack and Arcade :

- Deluxe Pack has less rank, it's pretty noticeable if you reach stage 4 without dying (the turrets shoot much less).

- The slowdown is not where it should be : some places don't slow down when they should (stage 7 for instance), and there's slowdown where you shouldn't expect it (like in stage 4).

- In Deluxe Pack the invisible walls are closer to the edge of the screen than in arcade, meaning you have more space to dodge.

- Not directly related to the ranking but Deluxe Pack allows continues.

There are others differences but they don't affect the gameplay. Don't know about the PSP version but I've heard it's based on Deluxe Pack. I'll go more into details next month, when I'll go back to the Saturn port (as I've been playing AC for the last few months any other difference will be more noticeable).

I don't think we absolutely need Nemesis tables, but since many other rankings track internationnal versions (Great Mahou Daisakusen, Darius II, etc) yes it'd be cool to have them I think.

Anyway my score contributions, all done with 15hz autofire :

Gradius JP - Prickly Angler - 835 300 - 3-1 - PS4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3VoAu2zn4c

Gradius Deluxe Pack - Prickly Angler - 407 200 - 2-1 - SS :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4X8nF2t25c

In case the internationnal rankings open :

Nemesis US - Prickly Angler - 2-2 - 471 500 - 2-2 - PS4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Myrfzdv87RU

Nemesis World - Prickly Angler - 2-2 - 450 200 - PS4 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcJuE5atTvs

[Despatche]

No!!! No more tables!!! Damn you Deluxe Pack. And yeah, I'm going to treat PSP as based on Deluxe Pack for now. I think it has a wait toggle though; I'm never splitting for wait by the way, that's too much. Can't wait to find out the X68000 version has weird differences too. Sigh.

Well here's the way I'd see it. I'd love nothing more than to remove things like the Dimahoo tables, but I really can't as people historically played that version instead of Great Mahou Daisakusen. Sagaia is different in that the now-two Sagaia versions are really neat in terms of how they differ, not all that different from something like Darius Gaiden Extra. Now, the Darius II three-monitor board is a lot more like the Dimahoo case, but again it seems like people actually want to play that version. Basically, I don't really care for all these versions that have very tiny differences from each other. At the same time, I know that someone's either going to ask about these other versions, or the version we really should be playing is not the version that's historically played. So I don't know what else to do except to prepare yet more offerings for the table god.

Okay but real talk what the heck is the DS version? For now I'm going to leave that score alone, because I'm assuming it's just the arcade version and thus not related to Deluxe Pack/Portable, since it's got a lot of other arcade games in it, and it's also credited to M2. I'm looking into it though. Fortunately it seems to be the only one of those old Konami collections that has a Gradius game in it.

Also not sure about Vs. Gradius. I'm not doubting HAN's statement, but I'm used to Vs. versions of games being pretty different. Vs. Ice Climber, Vs. Super Mario Bros., etc.

Oh right I should probably add an autofire field.

[Despatche]

I just want to say that it's really hard to resist the urge to use the expanded view. If I could get that in every single FC, PCE, and SFC game ever made, that'd be great.

I'm really not sure how to rule it though. Konami clearly wants people to use it, same with the wait option, but I imagine most of the Deluxe Pack and Portable scores did not use it, and that's why I'm currently saying to keep it off. It clearly affects balance, but it sure makes this game a lot more fun. At the same time, it's such a singular specific change that it seems a bit much to split for it, though I suppose the same could be said for the Nemesis versions. Don't suppose anyone else would like this allowed?

Also what the fuck, that DS port. All versions of that collection appear to have version D in them. What's really weird is that it says Nemesis on the title screen in the Japanese version and Gradius on the title screen elsewhere. So yes, that's a version D with the Gradius logo in non-Japan versions. It has the key art on the title screen, and it has the version D 50k/100k extends at least. I'm putting that DS score in the version D board for now.

[Prickly Angler]

I'm really not sure how to rule it though. Konami clearly wants people to use it, same with the wait option, but I imagine most of the Deluxe Pack and Portable scores did not use it, and that's why I'm currently saying to keep it off. It clearly affects balance, but it sure makes this game a lot more fun. At the same time, it's such a singular specific change that it seems a bit much to split for it, though I suppose the same could be said for the Nemesis versions. Don't suppose anyone else would like this allowed?

Do as you want, for me it's obvious that all those differences matter, but it's not like them game a totally new different game either. Maybe best to keepnit simple ?

[Nahar]

Gradius (Bubble System) (I guess version A?) - Nahar - 335 200 - 2-1 - MAME 0.233


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_j530VwvGA

[ryu]

Gradius (Version A)
mar - 125,200 - 1-4 - off? - Switch

It's a start lol. This should be further than I ever managed to get on the PSP ten or so years ago.

Also, the index still lists the previous Gradius thread that was run by Perikles.

[ryu]

Gradius (Version A)
mar - 194,300 - 1-4 - Yes - Switch

*silently screams in agony*

[ryu]

I was almost about to give up yesterday, but it looks like the painstaking practice is beginning to pay off:

Gradius (Version A)
mar - 347,200 - 1-7 - Yes - Switch

Still can't believe that I no-missed stages 2 and 3 two or three credits in a row. Seemed almost impossible to pull off for me just last night.

update:
radius (Version A)
mar - 380,000 - 1-7 - Yes - Switch

[ryu]

Yikes. I got the 1cc, but it's no PB because I screwed up milking the stage 6 boss.

Gradius (Version A)
mar - 438,400 - 1-7 - Yes - Switch



I'll probably throw in a few more credits, see if I can beat that. But the grind is over.

[ryu]

And the clean 1cc with a new PB:

Gradius (Version A)
mar - 464,700 - 2-1 - Yes - Switch

video

If I were to keep playing I'd practice milking the stage 6 boss, suiciding and repeating the process and recovering in stage 7 on the last life. That should provide a much better score in much shorter time than grinding the second loop.

[Despatche]

Congrats! Everyone says this game is "easy", but I'm not sure many would be able to harvest and beat loop 1 like this.

[Nguyen VinhLOC]

1CC with Tuned Difficulty on the PSP version, will probably have video if i clears the Original Difficulty

Vinh Loc - 476,000 - 2-2 - Yes - PPSSPP Gold on Google Pixel 8

[Steven]

VS Gradius
Steven - 639,400 - 2-1 - Yes - Steam Deck (Gradius Origin Collection Steam version 1.00 (I think. It's whatever the initial version was))

Spoiler

First clear of a Gradius game, and on one of the easiest games in the series. A most hollow victory. No miss to last boss on second time playing the game, where I didn't expect a door to lock me out. Threw away a lot of lives attempting to recover, recovered somehow, and died on the loop.

Not sure what's up with VS Gradius, but in the M2 collection it defaults to 3 lives, easy (this game only has easy/hard and normal doesn't exist?), 100,000 every, and the special thingy to disable the stage warp is disabled, so this is how I played it. I am assuming that last one is an M2 thing.

[Klatrymadon]

Gradius - Version A (Presumably! This was the JP ROM ver. on the Origins collection)
Klatrymadon - 511,800 - 2-2 - Yes - PC

Haven't played G1 seriously in donkey's years but I'd like to follow this up with a 2-loop clear at some point, or just break 1m.

[Sweatlord_STG]

Gradius - Version A (Presumably! This was the JP ROM ver. on the Origins collection)
Klatrymadon - 511,800 - 2-2 - Yes - PC

Haven't played G1 seriously in donkey's years but I'd like to follow this up with a 2-loop clear at some point, or just break 1m.

I've enjoyed the game a lot recently. I first played through the first loop on the Saturn, up until the second highest difficulty (the one below "Saturn difficult"), then I played through the arcade version on Mame (difficulty: hardest), and then I also played through Nemesis on Mame (harder version of Gradius, also on the difficulty "hardest").

But what I don't like about the second loop is the part where the enemies appear randomly (end of stage 2 so to speak). They fire suicide bullets so you have to just dodge them without shooting (and you must not carry a shield by the time you face them because the shield would kill them, too). I'm not up for that, so I left it at the 1-ALLs I got

However, I really like this game. There is something about it that makes its vibe feel different in comparison to anything that came after in the series. But I find it difficult to pinpoint what exactly that is, and why it appeals to me. The game is just very dense, and it's also kind of abstact, if that's the right word maybe, like other early STGs, such as Galaxian, Moon Cresta, or maybe also Star Force.
Gradius II is also great in its own way, but its cinematic approach makes it sometimes feel a little bit like you just fly from one movie set to another. While in Gradius, it feels more like all the different stages are actually part of the same world, and the simplicity of the stages and the limitation of the graphics make the whole setting of the game feel more mystic. I think that's what appeals to me.

Two of my runs: (this is not a score submission as I didn't play on the default difficulty)

Gradius 1CC 1-ALL NO-MISS [Difficulty: Hardest] https://youtu.be/xoalYLFaygc Go to 14:45 for loop 2 lolz

Nemesis (Harder Version of Gradius) 1CC 1-ALL NO-MISS [Difficulty: Hardest] https://youtu.be/p24SYDbPieQ Go to 14:14 for loop 2 lolz

[Klatrymadon]

Yeah, I'm drawn to the original Gradius for similar reasons. Like Darius 1, it's a weirder and often more melancholic experience than anything that followed it, and I just really like the unique sort of texture or 'gamefeel' of it — the gigantic hitboxes on the lasers, the incredibly satisfying twinkly sfx as you chew through lines of zako, the way it can accommodate both a slow and careful micro-dodgey style and a max-speed macro style with equal precision, etc. (While I love them both, I'll never understand how it was followed by Salamander, which is in comparison extremely loose, haphazard and thrown-together.)

Nice work on those clears, by the way! Have you tried the 'NA Prototype' version? It gets ugly fast, and feels almost like starting on loop 2 in any other version. Zako throw revenge bullets around from the start, so that the only way to tackle the zub rush in stage 2 is to dodge everything cleanly without firing. It's horrid, but I'm tempted to try and clear it...

[Sweatlord_STG]

Yeah, I'm drawn to the original Gradius for similar reasons. Like Darius 1, it's a weirder and often more melancholic experience than anything that followed it, and I just really like the unique sort of texture or 'gamefeel' of it — the gigantic hitboxes on the lasers, the incredibly satisfying twinkly sfx as you chew through lines of zako, the way it can accommodate both a slow and careful micro-dodgey style and a max-speed macro style with equal precision, etc. (While I love them both, I'll never understand how it was followed by Salamander, which is in comparison extremely loose, haphazard and thrown-together.)

Nice work on those clears, by the way! Have you tried the 'NA Prototype' version? It gets ugly fast, and feels almost like starting on loop 2 in any other version. Zako throw revenge bullets around from the start, so that the only way to tackle the zub rush in stage 2 is to dodge everything cleanly without firing. It's horrid, but I'm tempted to try and clear it...

Nice! Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I really appreciate it.

Yes, I am aware of the NA Prototype version of the game. Unfortunately, I only learned about it from the recent collection, and by that point I was already tired of the first Gradius game in general, because I had played it so much prior to the release of the Origins Collection. Maybe I will attempt to play it at some point in the future.
However, I did watch a replay of someone else playing it, from the leaderboard, so that was interesting to see. It's a shame the leaderboard and replays are only for the default difficulty. I would have loved to see the NA Prototype on the highest difficulty! Especially loop 2 and after.