Under Defeat HD

[mukimuki_rs]

the "fanbook" is now "artbook" so I assume they've removed rather than translated the interviews.

I'm pretty sure the interview is included in English

[Emerl]

Can anyone confirm whether the PS5 version has Legacy Controller support (e.g. PS4 fight stick support)? R-Type Final 3 Evolution, and I believe Radirgy 2 didn't have it, but it's standard on almost all PS5 fighting games.

Confirmed the PS5 version doesn't support PS4 sticks. Bummer

[davyK]

Switch copy arrived yesterday.

There's a poster with the game - haven't entirely unfolded it out - for a second I thought it was a manual.



I've had the 360 port for ages but I've never really dug far into this game.

Plays great and checked out the tweaked widescreen mode - has a real visceral feel to playing this. The sound effects are great.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Can anyone confirm whether the PS5 version has Legacy Controller support (e.g. PS4 fight stick support)? R-Type Final 3 Evolution, and I believe Radirgy 2 didn't have it, but it's standard on almost all PS5 fighting games.

Confirmed the PS5 version doesn't support PS4 sticks. Bummer

Yes, you'd need a dedicated PS5 arcade stick such as the Hori released one: https://www.amazon.com/HORI-PlayStation ... r=8-1&th=1

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Emerl]

I know, it's a bummer that they don't allow for the use of PS4 sticks the way that PS5 fighting games do. AFAIK, it's a driver that any dev can choose to implement in their PS5 game, but shmup devs are seemingly less interested in stick compatibility than fighting game devs.

[Jonpachi]

I know, it's a bummer that they don't allow for the use of PS4 sticks the way that PS5 fighting games do. AFAIK, it's a driver that any dev can choose to implement in their PS5 game, but shmup devs are seemingly less interested in stick compatibility than fighting game devs.

It's not free to add it.

The tech is there, but if you want to add PS4 controller support you have to then go through extra compliance testing with Sony. They have to test that all the right PS4 controllers work, that all the right icons show up, etc. That can takes WEEKS of extra QA time, which is paid for by the developer. Fighting game studios know they have no choice but to support these sticks as their community is their lifeblood, but a little studio putting out an older title like UD can't afford that extra cost.

[soupbones]

Curious on what controls people are using the most for this game? Standard, Reverse or Dual Stick?

I find it really strange the default is Standard, as I find it way easier to play reverse because you can shoot enemies as you fly away

[Jonpachi]

Reverse if I'm playing Arcade mode, but Dual Stick has been my jam on the new(est) modes. It's such a gem on the Switch with a Hori Split Pad Compact.

[Klatrymadon]

Reverse. I've never tried the normal setting for more than 5 mins because it just seems inherently clumsier. I'm sure you can get it under control but that initial "spray and pray" feeling was enough to put me off forever.

[Stevens]

I started with reverse, but if you want to quick kill/point blank it's standard all day.

[sunnshiner]

Reverse in arcade and twin stick for the rare time I venture into New Order mode.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I find it really strange the default is Standard, as I find it way easier to play reverse because you can shoot enemies as you fly away

You're not alone. Reverse is generally the way to go on this as when you're at the edge of the screen it's possible to aim in the direction you want without having to move towards the enemy to do it.

I remember a while ago trying to think about why Reverse felt so natural in Under Defeat compared to other games with bullets that swivel in the direction you move (rapid shots of Donpachi/DDP/DFK/SDOJ's green helicopter, Ageha in Espgaluda, Yusuke and Irori in Esp.Ra.De, Sakuya Type B in Perfect Cherry Blossom) and the reason is Under Defeat uniquely doesn't allow you swivel and fire at the same time, so you can't make slight swivel shots as needed to sweep enemies. You really have to commit to the directional aim more, and it makes it a lot easier to do so when it aims naturally towards the center of the screen as you move away from the center of the screen. It's also a game where the swivel shot redirects 100% of your damage to where you aim, whereas all the other examples above only adjust 20% to 50% of the damage when you aim your shots elsewhere, with a lot of shots still going forward at all times.

[Jonpachi]

the rare time I venture into New Order mode.

If you haven't tried dual-stick in New Order or New Order Plus, I'd spend some time with it. It's a wholly-new experience, separate and unique from the arcade original. I find it one of the most interesting shmups around because it's very considerate of the console experience. I don't feel like it loses anything, and only gains a unique new way to approach these sorts of games that I wish other titles would copy. It's not quite a twin-stick, not quite a rail-shooter, but also not quite a traditional shmup. What a gem of a game.

[Hyperspace]

It’s a great game and port. Only 1 frame of input lag on PC. And 3 on the Nintendo switch.

[Jeneki]

Reverse is generally the way to go on this as when you're at the edge of the screen it's possible to aim in the direction you want without having to move towards the enemy to do it.

Also consider this was on Dreamcast next to Zero Gunner 2, where holding rotate and then moving away from enemies generally pointed you in that direction. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I went back and forth between those two games quite a lot.

[soupbones]

the rare time I venture into New Order mode.

If you haven't tried dual-stick in New Order or New Order Plus, I'd spend some time with it. It's a wholly-new experience, separate and unique from the arcade original. I find it one of the most interesting shmups around because it's very considerate of the console experience. I don't feel like it loses anything, and only gains a unique new way to approach these sorts of games that I wish other titles would copy. It's not quite a twin-stick, not quite a rail-shooter, but also not quite a traditional shmup. What a gem of a game.

I have to try this - as all I've been playing is New Order.

[beer gas canister]

Yup New Order and New Order Plus modes are totally different, by dint of the scroll-speed control alone.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Also consider this was on Dreamcast next to Zero Gunner 2, where holding rotate and then moving away from enemies generally pointed you in that direction. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I went back and forth between those two games quite a lot.

I actually never considered this fact as to why reverse felt more "correct" to me (I played a shit ton of ZG2 previous to UD. In fact, it definitely took me about 50 credits to stop comparing UD to ZG2)

As mentioned above, the difference between normal and reverse kind of fundamentally changes how you approach playing. Normal is more of an offensive 'go-get-em' type thing, whereas reverse sort of forces you into a defensive 'take position and let them come to you' play-style. It weird (and interesting) how much rotation angle changes how you go about your business.

If you haven't tried dual-stick in New Order or New Order Plus, I'd spend some time with it.

I'll confess to not really fucking with twin-stick at all. And New Order Plus just felt all fucked up to me. Do you still have to select a specific ship for twin-stick (the white ship? Sorry, I haven't fucked with twin-stick since the 360)?

[NeoStrayCat]

I'll confess to not really fucking with twin-stick at all. And New Order Plus just felt all fucked up to me. Do you still have to select a specific ship for twin-stick (the white ship? Sorry, I haven't fucked with twin-stick since the 360)?

In the PS3/X360 versions, you had to select your ship via the Options. In the current gen ports, you select your ship once you start the game, skip the tutorial, then select your ship, and then control method (Normal/Reverse).

However, if you want to change either to single or dual stick options, you'll have to change that in the Controls settings. (Be aware that you can only change this before you start the game. The option to change it is disabled while paused in-game.)

[m.sniffles.esq]

Okay, thanks. I remember in the old version twin-stick was only available with the one specific ship, but someone said that changed with the new port (but didn't say how it changed exactly)

Honestly, with the old version, I think I may have spent one total credit with the twin-stick ship, said "that's novel", then never looked at it again. But I keep hearing it's actually pretty awesome, so I guess I'll finally investigate further.

Edit: Okay, while that's definitely fun (especially on switch handheld) but it feels really awkward to control via the right stick and d-pad. Unfortunately, while using the left stick instead of the d-pad feels MUCH better, I'm fucking terrible at dodging using the stick.

tl;dr It's fun, but there's a period of adjustment needed.

[Jonpachi]

I play pure twin stick and use the left analog to dodge. It does have a bit of a skill ramp-up to get over, but the movement is so smooth and natural that it doesn't take long to acclimate. I love the addition here mainly because real care was put into the game feel instead of just being a control mode they slapped into the game. I now find it hard to go back to vanilla mode, as it feels really clunky.

[m.sniffles.esq]

I play pure twin stick and use the left analog to dodge. It does have a bit of a skill ramp-up to get over, but the movement is so smooth and natural that it doesn't take long to acclimate.

Yeah, I just currently really suck at it

However, I did realize when my nephew's idiot punk friend was attempting to play and he just kept throwing fits and yelling "bro, the control is trash! Yo, this control is straight garbage! Why won't this shit point the right way? This shit is straight broken!" etc, etc because he couldn't get the hang of the rotation (even though I explained it reeeeeeaal slowly and used small words) I now realize I could have just switched it to twin-stick and all his issues would have been magically fixed

[Jonpachi]

If you select vanilla New Order Mode, and then select Game Start (Extra) is that the same thing as selecting New Order Mode Plus from the Main Menu?

[NeoStrayCat]

If you select vanilla New Order Mode, and then select Game Start (Extra) is that the same thing as selecting New Order Mode Plus from the Main Menu?

No, since selecting "Extra" on any mode just starts you at the 2nd loop.

[Jonpachi]

If you select vanilla New Order Mode, and then select Game Start (Extra) is that the same thing as selecting New Order Mode Plus from the Main Menu?

No, since selecting "Extra" on any mode just starts you at the 2nd loop.

Oooooooooooh

Thanks!

[ExitPlanetDust]

For anyone who’s interested, the NA PS5 disc is now readily available through Amazon. My copy came in today and I will install it to find out what build is on the disc as soon as I can.

[Warp_Rattler]

Since this thread has bubbled to the top again, I need to ask one pressing question. I picked up the Switch version of this game in a holiday sale, have spent a good amount of time with it off and on in the past month or so. This was always a title that I was moderately interested in, but apparently never enough to just decide to buy it, either for the original Dreamcast release or the 360 remaster. I'm enjoying it all so far--the explosions have a wonderfully visceral quality, the dual-stick control isn't clicking for me, and I'm team "reverse controls" all the way.

But for the love of god, where is the goddamn hitbox on the helicopters? I keep thinking I have it figured out (is it over the cockpit? The axle of the rotor?) only to die when a bullet sails through what I thought should be "empty" space. Conversely, on many an occasion I brace myself for the freeze before the death explosion, only to watch the terminal bullet pass harmlessly through what I thought for certain was the hitbox. "Keep the entire craft away from bullets" is only a viable strategy through the midway point of level 2, and now I need to know how to work with more finesse.

[it290]

I believe it is the rotor axle, but it's not a perfect square, instead being a vertically-oriented rectangle, so it will rotate a bit as your craft does.

[ExitPlanetDust]

ESRB disc build is version 1. It’s busted and will need to be patched or the game crashes after a certain amount of time.

[cj iwakura]

Switch copy arrived yesterday.

There's a poster with the game - haven't entirely unfolded it out - for a second I thought it was a manual.



I've had the 360 port for ages but I've never really dug far into this game.

Plays great and checked out the tweaked widescreen mode - has a real visceral feel to playing this. The sound effects are great.

I'd love to see the poster, the game has some great art.