if i dont like Ibara will i hate souky and garegga?

[mirkvid]

Im trying to fill out my saturn collection and im interested in getting Souky and Battle Garegga. i havent played any raizing games before (i know...) and heard that Ibara plays like them....but i really didnt care for Ibara!

my question is, as a cave / treasure / G.rev style fan do you think I'd like the raizing games even if i didnt like Ibara?

EDIT:
my only real problem with Ibara is the hard to see bullets and the crazy amount of shrapnel on the screen! for me, its just to hard to tell where the bullets are! are Raizing games similar to this??

Help me spend my $ wisely!!!

[Frederik]

I didn`t play Ibara because my money is tight, but the gameplay borrows a lot from Garegga. So yeah, I guess you wouldn`t like Garegga either. Can`t comment on Souky, it`s very different from other Raizing shmups to say the least - reminds me more of RSGun, excellent soundtrack!

[Twiddle]

you'd like souky

the rank in that is nowhere near as bad

[ghibli99]

I felt like Garegga's hard-to-see bullets and shrapnel were worse than Ibara. I still like Garegga, but not as much as most folks around here, and I only play Ibara in Arrange mode since it's more Cave-like that way.

[CIT]

It's harder to pinpoint a "Raizing style" than say a Cave, Psikyo or Seibu style - Raizing did a lot of different stuff in different games.

Having said that, Ibara is an hommage to Battle Garegga, and the games are very similar, so chances are you won't like Garegga either.

Soukyuugurentai is a lot different in style, and plays similar to Layer Section, with its heavy emphasis on a lock-on mechanism. If you like Layer Section you will most likely love Soukyuugurentai, as well.

[mirkvid]

It's harder to pinpoint a "Raizing style" than say a Cave, Psikyo or Seibu style - Raizing did a lot of different stuff in different games.

Having said that, Ibara is an hommage to Battle Garegga, and the games are very similar, so chances are you won't like Garegga either.

Soukyuugurentai is a lot different in style, and plays similar to Layer Section, with its heavy emphasis on a lock-on mechanism. If you like Layer Section you will most likely love Soukyuugurentai, as well.

thats good to hear, as Layer Section is one of my favorite Sat games!

[CIT]

Definitely pick up Soukyuugurentai then. You can't go wrong!

[Frederik]

I find the crossing of Cave and Raizing in Ibara very exciting, actually. Especially considering that most Cave fans didn`t like Raizing and vice versa - there even were long ramblings if Ibara can be considered a Raizing game or a Cave game, since it was released by Cave but had this Raizing guy leading the development.

[BulletMagnet]

Can`t comment on Souky, it`s very different from other Raizing shmups to say the least - reminds me more of RSGun, excellent soundtrack!

I think the same guy did the music for both games.

As for Garegga, as others have said Ibara is based heavily on it, so there's a good chance it wouldn't be your cup of tea either (if you're not averse to emulation you can try it in MAME and see what you think).

As for Soukyugurentai, it does draw inspiration from Layer Section and has better bullet visibility than Garegga, but like Ibara and Garegga it does have an innate and well-hidden gameplay system which pretty much requires you to stick to a somewhat unorthodox play style to succeed...I think there's an ST for it in the Strategy forum, you might want to read that over.

[Randorama]

I think the same guy did the music for both games.

Nope, Namiki did Garegga, DOJ and Mushihime. Shinji Hosoe (Megaten) did various early Namco shmups and Ibara+Under Defeat. Sokyugurentai is by Hitoshi Sakimoto.

[BulletMagnet]

I was actually referring to Souky and RSG, as per Fred's original post.

[Randorama]

I was actually referring to Souky and RSG, as per Fred's original post.

I'm getting blinder by the day

[Icarus]

Too much metrosexuality. ^_-

As for the topic, if you don't like Ibara, you won't like Garegga. And don't be fooled into thinking Souky is a walk in the park. It's by Raizing, remember. ^_-

[Twiddle]

As for the topic, if you don't like Ibara, you won't like Garegga. And don't be fooled into thinking Souky is a walk in the park. It's by Raizing, remember. ^_-

You don't have to kill yourself to win though

[Axon]

I was actually referring to Souky and RSG, as per Fred's original post.

Yes, Sakimoto composed RSG and Souky, also another well known shmup, Gradius V. Though, he probably composed a lot of other shmups also.

[Icarus]

You don't have to kill yourself to win though

Playing the game without powerups? I think that's close enough. ^_-

[Twiddle]

You don't have to kill yourself to win though

Playing the game without powerups? I think that's close enough. ^_-

The main shot sucks anyway so it's no big deal

[BulletMagnet]

I'm getting blinder by the day

You'll be glad you are, by the time I finish compiling the rank info for the Garegga ST. Gyaaaa ha ha haaaaa!

[CIT]

You don't have to kill yourself to win though

Playing the game without powerups? I think that's close enough. ^_-

Even if the powerups didn't make the rank shoot up, you would still only be using the lock-on lasers. It's the only way to score, and scoring is the only way to get those valuable extends.

[segasonicfan]

I haven't played Ibara, but I'm not a big fan of Garegga and Bakraid. That said, I think Soukurugentai is one of the finest shmups ever made, on any system. It's VERY different from any other Raizing title ever made. Garegga, Bakraid, and Batrider are all very similar in their weapons system and hard-to-see bullets. The Mahou Daisakusen series is another set of Raizing style (Dimahoo is part of that series). but Soukyurugentai stands out completely from all the rest, along with 1944: The Loop Master. These are my favorite Raizing titles because they break the other Raizing molds and do something way better. Soukyurugentai also has phenominal graphics, effects, music, and atmosphere and an entirely new weapons system. It's just pure brilliance and my favorite Saturn game. You must play it if you like shmups at all

-Segasonicfan

[BulletMagnet]

Garegga, Bakraid, and Batrider are all very similar in their weapons system and hard-to-see bullets.

Weapons, yes, bullets, not quite (thanks to Bakraid ).

[D]

I guess those games have hard to see bullets when viewing on anything less than rgb. and on a screen position less than tate. If you don't go all the way just don't go at all. I guess Souky has bigger bullets and less scrapnel so yes you can use that for your crappy set-up.
To me this whole issue is really silly and never understood the critisism until I found out most were not using rgb. I guess you could call BG rgb and tate only, still one of the if not the best shmup ever, that is why they couldn't name Battle Bakraid, Battle Garegga 2, they would've been butchered if they had used the Garegga name.
Tiny bullets this, tiny bulllets that, it almost sounds like an excuse to me: "But honey, the bullets were so tiny, I couldn't see them, sigh".
What about the red ball option then, use that. I have never played Ibara and I like it already

[Daigohji]

For all their similarities, I find the first few stages of Garegga strangely relaxing compared to Ibara. In Ibara, the first wave can kick your butt if you're not paying attention and after about 15 hours play I can only get onto stage three on a good day. In Garegga I got to the stage three boss on my first attempt. Then again, I haven't been playing Garegga for score, so I don't know how the difficulty ramps up.

[roker]

EDIT:
my only real problem with Ibara is the hard to see bullets and the crazy amount of shrapnel on the screen! for me, its just to hard to tell where the bullets are! are Raizing games similar to this??

Help me spend my $ wisely!!!

ha ha

bullets in Ibara are more visible than bullets in Battle Garegga

but BG still wipes the floor vs that game

it's one of those games that in theory sounds like hell, but in time you'll learn to appreciate and love

I've been playing it now for 9 months straight

nearly everyday when I wake up

it's THAT addicting

learning the little ins and outs makes a difference

I'm biased, but if you can at least MAME it first, and give it chance, you'll see it shine

my favorite shmup, hands down

[Twiddle]

For all their similarities, I find the first few stages of Garegga strangely relaxing compared to Ibara. In Ibara, the first wave can kick your butt if you're not paying attention and after about 15 hours play I can only get onto stage three on a good day. In Garegga I got to the stage three boss on my first attempt. Then again, I haven't been playing Garegga for score, so I don't know how the difficulty ramps up.

The more you score by non-milking methods, generally, the easier it gets.

Backwards ass ranking logic, I know, but that's how it goes.

Not to mention that the game is pretty easy until Stage 4.

[segasonicfan]

I'm biased, but if you can at least MAME it first, and give it chance, you'll see it shine

my favorite shmup, hands down

I've played through Bakraid, Batrider, and Garegga on MAME. I think they are decent shooters but simply overrated. I enjoyed 1944: The Loop Master, Sokyurugentai, and Dimahoo much more.

I guess those games have hard to see bullets when viewing on anything less than rgb. and on a screen position less than tate. If you don't go all the way just don't go at all. I guess Souky has bigger bullets and less scrapnel so yes you can use that for your crappy set-up.

I have a very nice VGA LCD and I play all my games in either VGA or on my RGB monitor. I don't think these things affect the gameplay at all. I think RGB is the only way to game for me, but it's not the only way to enjoy a shooter.

Tiny bullets this, tiny bulllets that, it almost sounds like an excuse to me: "But honey, the bullets were so tiny, I couldn't see them, sigh"

Personally, I don't find a problem with tiny bullets. What I find annoying about Garegga/Bakraid/Batrider though is the coloring of them. Raizing doesn't seem to do a very good job keeping enemy and ship fire distinctly different. It makes it hard to use peripheral vision which I personally use in shmups a lot. Dimahoo gives me the hardest time with this though- dropping gold coins and gold chests over my gold fire while I'm dodging gold bullets :O I'm getting use to it though, and I still like the game either way.

Cave does a much finer job of separating firepower/powerups though. Esp Ra. De. is a prime example in which every shot is very clear to me but the challenge is still there. A good shmup should focus on bullet-dodging and similar action as means for giving the player a challenge. Not by using similar color bullets and awkward colors/excessive shrapnel to confuse the player. Raiden II is another example of this. When things explode they fly off into tiny yellow firey pieces. In hectic levels I can ofter mistake these for yellow bullets. Everyone's eyes are different though, so I guess to each his own. Just thought I'd mention I didn't have this problem at all with 1944 and Soukyrugentai

-Segasonicfan

[Icarus]

Yeah, because PINK BLOBS give a game a look more realistic feel. You can just about imagine them using large pink projectiles in WW2, if you think hard enough. -_-;;

[Plasmo]

lol they made some huge purple bullets in ibara and people are STILL complaining about invisible bullets.i cant take those guys serious

[Daigohji]

Yeah, because PINK BLOBS give a game a look more realistic feel. You can just about imagine them using large pink projectiles in WW2, if you think hard enough. -_-;;

Tracer rounds?

[BulletMagnet]

Yeah, because PINK BLOBS give a game a look more realistic feel. You can just about imagine them using large pink projectiles in WW2, if you think hard enough. -_-;;

And of course if a shmup's not realistic, it's just not worth playing (few documentaries mention the fact that all WW2 aircraft had the ability to launch an unlimited supply of artillery shells larger than the planes themselves...oh, and that the Allies eventually won because the Axis powers didn't suicide often enough and the rank caught up with them). I can't help but find it somewhat amusing that many of the people (not necessarily you, Icky ) who complain about how "ugly" neon-colored bullets look in certain shmups are the same ones who call other players "scrubs" and whatnot for supposedly putting "graphics over gameplay" in their preferences. I frankly don't freakin' care how "out of place" easily-visible bullets look: that's the point. And frankly, I'll very gladly exchange a bit of "realism" (since when has that EVER been an issue for shmups?) for having (much) better odds of actually seeing what it is that's trying to kill me.

Honestly, some of the "justifications" out there for low bullet visibility in shmups border on the ludicrous (I especially love how some have tried to shrug off the all-obscuring overhang in Batrider). Granted, not everyone has the same standards for what's "easy to see" and what isn't (and yes, the "you get used to it" mantra has some merit to it), and if low visibility does exist by most standards it doesn't automatically make a game "bad" or not worth playing (despite my opinions of the practice, Garegga made my Top 25 this past year, not to mention that I'm helping with the ST), but it's still bad design, for heaven's sake, stop attempting to pass the shortcoming on to the players who "don't get it" (read: actually see it for what it is and are willing to say so). For Pete's sake, just because a game is your favorite doesn't make it flawless, deal with it.