Switch 2 BC Lag testing (wish)

[orange808]

I've never heard of a USB dock taking ~17ms to route signals. That sounds like a reddit number to me. I don't believe it adds that much latency. Should be closer to 4ms--and that would push about a quarter of your inputs back a frame if they're evenly distributed.

[bobrocks95]

I think results straight to the USB-C on the console were the same for Switch 1? Always a frame worse than wireless connections if I recall right.

I figured it was a very low USB polling rate? Their wireless controllers lasting 4x or more longer than the competition also implies a low polling rate. No way Nintendo just has some secret low-power sauce that nobody else has figured out yet, it's gotta be a willing trade-off between battery life and responsiveness.

[Sumez]

That's really good news, but I wonder why the difference in lag improvement varies so much. Some games have no improvements at all, and others have really massive +30ms improvements.

On the Switch 1 itself, the dreaded lag issues already differ quite a bit from one game to another. Most of the ones I've played have little to no lag of relevance - of course, if I hear rumors of it being an issue, I get the game on a different platform, but it's not nearly as common as its reputation suggests.

I don't know anything about what the exact causes of the lag issues on Switch 1 are, but it might be a few different things depending on how IO, frame buffers, etc. are handled, and some games are probably better at avoiding those sources than others. So it wouldn't be a completely unfair assumption that if the Switch 2 BC has improved some of those issues, you'd only see those improvements on games that are designed to rely on that design. Ideally this means the worse a game suffers from lag, the more likely it is the Switch 2 will "fix" it. Of course, some games are just generally poorly programmed and unfixable.

This is purely theory of course.

Furthermore, we really shouldn't expect many gains from legacy software.

Legacy software is the exact subject of interest here. I'm sure many of us want to know if we can use the Switch 2 to can the old Switch completely!
So far the only reason I'm seeing to not upgrade is that the new Switch is a tad too large for me.

[Konsolkongen]

On the Switch 1 itself, the dreaded lag issues already differ quite a bit from one game to another. Most of the ones I've played have little to no lag of relevance - of course, if I hear rumors of it being an issue, I get the game on a different platform, but it's not nearly as common as its reputation suggests.

It's common for games to lag more on the Switch than on other systems, which I guess makes sense since the hardware is what it is. The majority (if not all of them) of shmups released by M2 and City Connection are laggier on the Switch than on other platforms, as are a lot of fighting games.

There are definitely outliers where other platforms perform worse, like with a lot of the Capcoms collections, where the PS4 will often perform the worst for some weird reason.

Unfortunately it doesn't seem like running Switch 1 games on Switch 2 will fix lag issues by default. A lot of games appear to have identical lag which is a shame, because I almost entirely stopped buying third party Switch games a long time ago, because so many of them were rubbish. When the Switch 2 released and people were proclaiming that the lag was fixed I got excited that I might actually get to go back and buy some of the titles that I had previously dismissed. Unfortunately it still seems risky :/

I'm glad that some games are improved lagwise, and sometimes by a lot it seems! If you already own games that benefits then this is a fantastic bonus. Hopefully native Switch 2 ports will not be affected by lag issues to the same extend as the Switch 1. It does seem like a lot better hardware compared to the old Switch which was always kinda shitty


Watching some of noodalls' videos on YT I was surprised to learn that some PS4 titles played on PS5 and Xbox One on Series X also see similar decrease in lag, which is nice. This also only seem to affect certain titles, but again it's a nice bonus

[Sumez]

I almost entirely stopped buying third party Switch games a long time ago, because so many of them were rubbish.

Some of them are. Many? Maybe, given how many exist in total.
But I have 200 physical games on Switch, and there is only a small handful of them that I'd arguably consider anything close to "rubbish". There's definitely no reason to just avoid third party games unconditionally.
And given reports of how much better a lot of unpatched Switch games work on Switch 2 (just general performance, not lag issues), a lot of those issues might actually be solved with the backwards compatibility now, breathing new life into otherwise rubbish ports.

If I get a Switch 2, I'm gonna try out Afterimage and Civ 6 on them to see how they compare. Actually those are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head where I ended up getting on the original Switch where I felt somewhat soured by how poorly their ports were handled. Those and the X Legacy Collection with its shitty lag.

[AGermanArtist]

Anyone tried Ghosts n'Goblins Resurrection and Arcade Stadium Ghosts n'Goblins? Those did suffer, with the latter being unplayable docked.

[Sumez]

What does Ghosts n Goblins Resurrection suffer from?

I remember one slowdown issue that happens only on the shadow version of the stage with the rolling rocks, at the very end of that section. Everywhere else the game is fine?

[AGermanArtist]

Nothing scientific but did see this on X.

https://x.com/kiyomaryu/status/1930465906926465034

I'm a big fan of Dodonpachi, but I feel like the delay is less on the Switch 2. (I feel like it)
・Video 1 is Switch
・Video 2 is Switch2 ※ the one moving around at the end

and this

https://t.co/jw85PeS9Ma

In this stream we tested the delay issues of various STGs, so we hope it's helpful!
Overall, it seems like the latency has improved.

He's using a wired HRAP. That's an issue straight away. I sold mine since it added even more lag.

[AGermanArtist]

What does Ghosts n Goblins Resurrection suffer from?

I remember one slowdown issue that happens only on the shadow version of the stage with the rolling rocks, at the very end of that section. Everywhere else the game is fine?

Docked it doesn't feel as good to play as the PS4 version on PS5. Moderately improved undocked. There's just a noticeable difference, for me.

[Sumez]

Ok. What is that difference though?
I have only played the Switch version

[AGermanArtist]

Ok. What is that difference though?
I have only played the Switch version

Switch version docked feels like wading through treacle. Undocked, less so, but still worse than PS5. It feels y'know - laggy.

[orange808]

I don't know anything about what the exact causes of the lag issues on Switch 1 are, but it might be a few different things depending on how IO, frame buffers, etc. are handled, and some games are probably better at avoiding those sources than others. So it wouldn't be a completely unfair assumption that if the Switch 2 BC has improved some of those issues, you'd only see those improvements on games that are designed to rely on that design. Ideally this means the worse a game suffers from lag, the more likely it is the Switch 2 will "fix" it. Of course, some games are just generally poorly programmed and unfixable.

This is purely theory of course.

Faster polling could theoretically help some "late" (worst case) inputs register a frame sooner. Of course, that depends on what's happening under the hood of the game.

Raising the refresh rate will send information down the wire faster. Theoretically, 120Hz could cut out ~8ms of "button to screen" latency. I couldn't say how the drivers handle that. It's straightforward frame doubling in theory, but reality has a way of making simple things tricky sometimes.

Regardless, the devs of these games didn't explicitly plan enhancements if their specific Switch code ran on future (non-existent at the time) hardware.

[mrsmiley381]

So, at the very least, I popped Aleste Collection into my Switch 2 last night and it definitely booted in handheld mode and then did a 720p -> 1080p upscale. I could tell because the resolution scaier settings change when you switch between handheld and TV mode. I would argue that if this remains true then a Switch OLED is still a better way to play Switch games in handheld mode unless the performance gains for the improved CPU totally outweigh the scaling artifacts. If by the time a Switch 2 OLED there is an integer scaling feature or TV-in-Handheld mode then maybe this hypothetical Switch 2 OLED will be the best way to play. Y'know, barring any still-outstanding compatibility issues or lag.
I don't have any objective way to test lag for now. I don't game in handheld mode much so TV mode is where I'll be doing subjective tests as time allows.

Well, it looks like some games automatically boot into a console-in-handheld mode. That's not bad! Not a lot of games I want to play but it's a start and better than nothing.

[AGermanArtist]

Switch 2 GC emulation isn't sounding too hot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3ylCAr0dbs