Questions that do not deserve a thread

[Bassa-Bassa]

Hello, I'm a newbie to all of this and reddit has been super unhelpful.

I'm trying to put together a retro setup with a Dreamcast and CRT. I want a CRT TV and not a monitor because of the larger size and greeter availability in my area. I also want 480p and I found a CRT TV with it and Component output.

The 480p Component cables from Retro Cables say they can only do this if:
Compatible with:

Consumer Grade Televisions which accept component video, but only in 15KHz/576i TV mode only, and will not work in 480p mode. To use 480p Mode you need one of the following devices below.
Sony BVM which accepts 480p.
XRGB-mini Framemeister.
OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter).
RetroTink2, RetroTink2X Pro, RetroTink 5X and RetroTink4K.

So is this saying even if I have a 480p capable CRT TV, it won't display in 480p? Why is that?

And all these scalers are for modern displays. So I'd need an HDMI output on my TV, right?

Maybe I'm missing something obvious but I have no idea and that's why I figured I'd post it in here. I just hope somebody can explain what I need to buy for 480p from my DC and why so I can justify the cost.

Thank you.

Proper 480p on a large format is not an easy goal, mind. This forum's search feature will show you that many 480p CRT TVs use to upscale/postprocess the picture unless you force it somehow (usually with extra hardware). I've never used a 480p CRT TV so you'll get much better input from other people here, but if your set only supports 480p through "component cables" (YPbPr signal), you need the source to output it like that. The DC only outputs 480p through VGA (RGB), so if your set doesn't like that, maybe a transcoder will do in your case, but, as mentioned, I'd make sure first how it treats 480p before displaying.

Letting the experts here know what's your TV model will give you more accurate answers, anyway.

21'' PC monitors are not impossible to come by and work flawlessly for this stuff. Better yet if they support sync on green for the day you want 31khz PS2. It may not be big enough for your needs, but any other option is either, limited or way too expensive/troublesome.

[NikkolasKing]

Hello, I'm a newbie to all of this and reddit has been super unhelpful.

I'm trying to put together a retro setup with a Dreamcast and CRT. I want a CRT TV and not a monitor because of the larger size and greeter availability in my area. I also want 480p and I found a CRT TV with it and Component output.

The 480p Component cables from Retro Cables say they can only do this if:
Compatible with:

Consumer Grade Televisions which accept component video, but only in 15KHz/576i TV mode only, and will not work in 480p mode. To use 480p Mode you need one of the following devices below.
Sony BVM which accepts 480p.
XRGB-mini Framemeister.
OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter).
RetroTink2, RetroTink2X Pro, RetroTink 5X and RetroTink4K.

So is this saying even if I have a 480p capable CRT TV, it won't display in 480p? Why is that?

And all these scalers are for modern displays. So I'd need an HDMI output on my TV, right?

Maybe I'm missing something obvious but I have no idea and that's why I figured I'd post it in here. I just hope somebody can explain what I need to buy for 480p from my DC and why so I can justify the cost.

Thank you.

Proper 480p on a large format is not an easy goal, mind. This forum's search feature will show you that many 480p CRT TVs use to upscale/postprocess the picture unless you force it somehow (usually with extra hardware). I've never used a 480p CRT TV so you'll get much better input from other people here, but if your set only supports 480p through "component cables" (YPbPr signal), you need the source to output it like that. The DC only outputs 480p through VGA (RGB), so if your set doesn't like that, maybe a transcoder will do in your case, but, as mentioned, I'd make sure first how it treats 480p before displaying.

Letting the experts here know what's your TV model will give you more accurate answers, anyway.

21'' PC monitors are not impossible to come by and work flawlessly for this stuff. Better yet if they support sync on green for the day you want 31khz PS2. It may not be big enough for your needs, but any other option is either, limited or way too expensive/troublesome.

My apologies i should have specified the TV. It's a Samsung Dynaflat, model TSK2790F
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... are_button

From the manual

When switching to the DTV mode, either 480p or 1080i format is automatically selected
according to the input signal.
Notes:
DVD menu mode selection- Intended for standard interlaced source material at 480i such as a DVD Player (Non Progressive Scan).
DTV menu mode selection- Intended for 480p or 1080i source material. Use this menu
option for a Progressive Scan DVD Player that outputs 480p refer to page 3.17

[orange808]

I wouldn't use a Framemeister to upscale from 480p sources these days. You can get better quality elsewhere with less lag.

[bobrocks95]

Hello, I'm a newbie to all of this and reddit has been super unhelpful.

I'm trying to put together a retro setup with a Dreamcast and CRT. I want a CRT TV and not a monitor because of the larger size and greeter availability in my area. I also want 480p and I found a CRT TV with it and Component output.

The 480p Component cables from Retro Cables say they can only do this if:
Compatible with:

Consumer Grade Televisions which accept component video, but only in 15KHz/576i TV mode only, and will not work in 480p mode. To use 480p Mode you need one of the following devices below.
Sony BVM which accepts 480p.
XRGB-mini Framemeister.
OSSC (Open Source Scan Converter).
RetroTink2, RetroTink2X Pro, RetroTink 5X and RetroTink4K.

So is this saying even if I have a 480p capable CRT TV, it won't display in 480p? Why is that?

And all these scalers are for modern displays. So I'd need an HDMI output on my TV, right?

Maybe I'm missing something obvious but I have no idea and that's why I figured I'd post it in here. I just hope somebody can explain what I need to buy for 480p from my DC and why so I can justify the cost.

Thank you.

That reads like a disclaimer to cover their bases. If you have a CRT you know is 480p compatible on one or more inputs, you should be good. Like their disclaimer says though, the vast majority of standard 4:3 CRTs were 480i only. HD CRTs will take 480p but were often laggy and most were 16:9.

[NikkolasKing]

That reads like a disclaimer to cover their bases. If you have a CRT you know is 480p compatible on one or more inputs, you should be good. Like their disclaimer says though, the vast majority of standard 4:3 CRTs were 480i only. HD CRTs will take 480p but were often laggy and most were 16:9.

Oh, that's great to hear. Thank you. I was thinking "what else can I do, maybe get a Dreamcast SCART cable with 480p from Retro Access and pair it with RGB2COMP transcoder." But buying a Component cable seems cheaper and easier.

Although maybe I'd still like to try the RGB2COMP some time for a PSX or other retro consoles I buy. I dunno.

Thanks again.

[Bassa-Bassa]

My apologies i should have specified the TV. It's a Samsung Dynaflat, model TSK2790F
https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comm ... are_button

From the manual

When switching to the DTV mode, either 480p or 1080i format is automatically selected
according to the input signal.
Notes:
DVD menu mode selection- Intended for standard interlaced source material at 480i such as a DVD Player (Non Progressive Scan).
DTV menu mode selection- Intended for 480p or 1080i source material. Use this menu
option for a Progressive Scan DVD Player that outputs 480p refer to page 3.17

It indeed seems to lack VGA/RGB inputs, which may be a hint that it lacks a proper monitor mode, meaning that it likely can't display 480p at 1:1 and full screen (or even non-full screen). Likely.

To clarify my point, there's little sense in displaying 480p on a CRT if it's not 1:1 (that is, unscaled and non-processed). Unlike a monitor, most of these TVs will upscale a 640x480 picture to something like 640x540. That process will not only destroy the picture's digital coherence, but also will add latency. So even if you're not after pixel purity, demanding games will suffer. If indeed you're not after pixel purity and just after large format, get yourself a well-regarded 15khz/SD TV and use the DC at 480i (preferably in RGB). Or a current flat TV set coupled with a nice scaler device with shader features.

[NikkolasKing]

So I reached out to Retro Gaming Cables and got an email back today

I have updated the description on the listing. This is because I had copied and pasted this information from the SCART version of this cable in error.

So I've been stressing over an error. Oh well, this still simplifies things considerably.

[Jack Emerson]

I am learning about monitors, and in general what is more important Hz refresh, or MS response time.

Example, Two monitors about the same price, which would be better for shmups?

1) 75Hz with 1ms response
2) 100Hz with 4ms response

[bobrocks95]

I am learning about monitors, and in general what is more important Hz refresh, or MS response time.

Example, Two monitors about the same price, which would be better for shmups?

1) 75Hz with 1ms response
2) 100Hz with 4ms response

Most shmups are locked to 60, certainly any older ones before high refresh rate monitors were a thing. So generally speaking for shmups in particular I would lean lower refresh rate, faster response time.

That said, you'll have to find independent reviews to actually assess how blurry the monitors are- almost every single monitor made these days says "1ms response time" and it's marketing fluff from some weird specific Gray-to-gray measurement they're *maybe* doing.

[vol.2]

I am learning about monitors, and in general what is more important Hz refresh, or MS response time.

Example, Two monitors about the same price, which would be better for shmups?

1) 75Hz with 1ms response
2) 100Hz with 4ms response

Very complicated question. A very high refresh rate is good for motion blur issues because you can start to do things like black frame insertion. However, this is ideally 240Hz where you can operate at 120Hz with alternating black frames. This helps to mimic the look and feel of a CRT for motion, but it dims the screen so you need a monitor that has a pretty high light output in order for the displayed frames to take advantage of the persistence of vision

So 100Hz is of potentially limited use. If you can get a monitor that comfortably does 60Hz and you can use vsync to lock it, that's probably the best you're going to do at that price point.

In general, at this level, the response time will serve you better. However, if you want to know more about refresh rate and how/why it helps and in what situations it helps, there is a lot of information about it here https://blurbusters.com/

and you can also search for information about black frame insertion.