Need a fast scaler box to change 1080p LCD timings to 1080p PC CRT timings Sony W900 Doesn't like 1080p LCD timings

[Roboplodicus]

So I have a Sony GDM-W900 that won't display 1080p from my Wii U or Xbox One X through a standard HDMI to VGA converter I've tried my HDFury3 and the Tendak HDMI to VGA converter and neither work but both work at 720p. So I know there are scalers out there that let you upload or enter in through the OSD custom timings profiles in fact I bought one but I didn't read the manual and it only accepts signals up to 1080i though its pretty laggy anyway so maybe for the best. Since I'm starting out with HDMI it doesn't matter if it doesn't have analog inputs since I can feed the HDMI output to the HDFury3 to get it to VGA for the monitor I just need something to change timings I asw the Extron DSC 401 lets me update custom EDID profiles thats the same as custom timings profile right? Front porch back porch blanking etc? The only thing is the thing is super expensive and I have no idea what the latency is like. I know some of the Cori2 TVOne scalers can do this also but I also tried one of those a few years ago when I owned a different W900 that I later sold before I got this one, and there was a decent bit of latency with it. Are there any known low latency Corio2 scalers? Scalers I've already looked at that only can take inputs up to 1080i are the Extron DSC 301 and the DVDO iScan HD+.

Any help is appreciated

[Guspaz]

There's no such thing as "LCD timings" or "CRT timings". HDMI is just a variation of DVI, and DVI is just digital VGA. They use the exact same timing standards. CVT, CEA-861, DMT, etc. The problem is that those consoles are using CEA-861 timings (normally, these are video timings, rather than PC), and for 1080p it's the same as the VESA DMT timings, which you'd expect the GDM-W900 to support, but somehow it doesn't.

The RT4K can do all this (ultra low latency, custom output timings), but it's not cheap. Costs slightly less than a new TVOne, though.

You've discarded the Extron DSC 301, but it's not limited to 1080i, its specifications explicitly list 1080p input support (and up to 1200p with reduced blanking). I suspect you saw "supports deinterlacing up to 1080i" and misinterpreted that as a limit of 1080i input, but it's not, it's just saying it can *deinterlace* up to that, and since there are no higher interlaced resolutions, that's what you get. I have no idea if that also applies the the DVDO unit, the manufacturer no longer has a page for it.

[Roboplodicus]

There's no such thing as "LCD timings" or "CRT timings". HDMI is just a variation of DVI, and DVI is just digital VGA. They use the exact same timing standards. CVT, CEA-861, DMT, etc. The problem is that those consoles are using CEA-861 timings (normally, these are video timings, rather than PC), and for 1080p it's the same as the VESA DMT timings, which you'd expect the GDM-W900 to support, but somehow it doesn't.

The RT4K can do all this (ultra low latency, custom output timings), but it's not cheap. Costs slightly less than a new TVOne, though.

You've discarded the Extron DSC 301, but it's not limited to 1080i, its specifications explicitly list 1080p input support (and up to 1200p with reduced blanking). I suspect you saw "supports deinterlacing up to 1080i" and misinterpreted that as a limit of 1080i input, but it's not, it's just saying it can *deinterlace* up to that, and since there are no higher interlaced resolutions, that's what you get. I have no idea if that also applies the the DVDO unit, the manufacturer no longer has a page for it.

OK all good to know and ya that extron does actually say that it supports 1080p in I definitely misread support for the highest interlace resolution as support for the highest resolution overall. I may give that a try next, and ya 700$ is a bit over my budget though thats sick that the RT4K can do all that I didn't realize it could support custom output timings too I thought it was just used for optimal input timings. I wish I had an excuse to get a RT4K but yaaaa I only have 2 analog only consoles and I probably won't be getting anymore any time soon. Do you happen to know which TVOne's are faster? I might put up a search alert on ebay for one if you've heard it has low latency and see if I can maybe snag one for a deal. I looked up an old post of mine on here and I apparently had the https://tvone.com/products/legacy-products/c2-2200a which was pretty laggy feeling even just going from 1080p from the xbox one to 1080p for the w900.

[kitty666cats]

My friend and I did this w/ my PlayStation 4 and his FW900 via an Aurora Dido LT.

A TVone C2 will absolutely work, as well. Scalers with DVI-I in & out negate the need for either a ADC or DAC, which can easily cause a compatibility issue.

Basically, you just want any scaler that has comprehensive (i.e. being able to adjust porch settings and blanking) custom resolutions, digital input and analog RGB out.

And accepts 1080p on the digital input, which I am not certain all iScans have.

[LDigital]

I used to have this monitor and know the problem.


Use a hdmi > vga adaptor > ossc (original) on passthrough mode > hdmi to vga adaptor > monitor


This chain will clean things up and get it working. The ossc does something to sort out the signal

[Guspaz]

You'll get better results avoiding the unecessary conversions. Going through an OSSC involves converting digital to analog, then analog to digital, then digital to analog again. This can all be done with only one single conversion from digital to analog. You'll impact image quality with each conversion.

An OSSC Pro may be better suited if you want to go that route, since it has an HDMI input and can avoid the initial conversion.

[orange808]

The Extron DVS 605 A is good for 1080p HDMI 1.3, graphics scaling, frame lock, and onboard ADC/DAC. It's 4:4:4. Input HDMI/DVI or analog. Output HDMI/DVI or analog. It accepts both digital and analog and outputs both analog and digital. One frame of lag. Deinterlacing isn't very good. It's for progressive graphics scaling and processing. Beware if you feed abnormal sync from a Nintendo console or an arcade PCB. Late model Extron machines are picky about out of spec sync signals.

It's not particularly programmable. Doesn't output 240p downscaling. Doesn't output strange interlaced signals, either. Don't buy it for edge case uses, because it doesn't do that stuff.

I paid $35usd for mine. Don't pay more. Offer that until someone takes it. It's not worth more.

Long term, the OSSC Pro with the analog card should eventually do what OP wants with extremely low (subframe) latency.

[Roboplodicus]

My friend and I did this w/ my PlayStation 4 and his FW900 via an Aurora Dido LT.

A TVone C2 will absolutely work, as well. Scalers with DVI-I in & out negate the need for either a ADC or DAC, which can easily cause a compatibility issue.

Basically, you just want any scaler that has comprehensive (i.e. being able to adjust porch settings and blanking) custom resolutions, digital input and analog RGB out.

And accepts 1080p on the digital input, which I am not certain all iScans have.

Do you have any idea what kind of latency the Aurora Dido LT. has doing that conversion? Also I had a TVOne C2 in the past and it had a lot of latency enough to be a bit annoying do you know if any models are known for having more or less latency? Also I don't need analog out necessarily because I have an HDFury3 which I would assume has a better DAC than most scalers though I could be wrong because they were pretty expensive devices but either way its a very good DAC even if its not the best.

The Extron DVS 605 A is good for 1080p HDMI 1.3, graphics scaling, frame lock, and onboard ADC/DAC. It's 4:4:4. Input HDMI/DVI or analog. Output HDMI/DVI or analog. It accepts both digital and analog and outputs both analog and digital. One frame of lag. Deinterlacing isn't very good. It's for progressive graphics scaling and processing. Beware if you feed abnormal sync from a Nintendo console or an arcade PCB. Late model Extron machines are picky about out of spec sync signals.

It's not particularly programmable. Doesn't output 240p downscaling. Doesn't output strange interlaced signals, either. Don't buy it for edge case uses, because it doesn't do that stuff.

I paid $35usd for mine. Don't pay more. Offer that until someone takes it. It's not worth more.

Long term, the OSSC Pro with the analog card should eventually do what OP wants with extremely low (subframe) latency.

Can you program custom resolutions controlling for front porch/back porch/blanking etc with it? Also what was the latency like?

You'll get better results avoiding the unecessary conversions. Going through an OSSC involves converting digital to analog, then analog to digital, then digital to analog again. This can all be done with only one single conversion from digital to analog. You'll impact image quality with each conversion.

An OSSC Pro may be better suited if you want to go that route, since it has an HDMI input and can avoid the initial conversion.

Ya the OSSC Pro seems pretty sick especially with the analog add on board and I could use it for my N64 and Wii also though those are the only two analog only consoles I actually have and it seems to be sold out everywhere at this point and I don't really feel like paying a giant scalper fee to buy on buy.

[orange808]

...One frame of lag...

Can you program custom resolutions controlling for front porch/back porch/blanking etc with it? Also what was the latency like?

"EDID" programming for output.

One frame of lag.

Details here including the manual.

[Guspaz]

Long term, the OSSC Pro with the analog card should eventually do what OP wants with extremely low (subframe) latency.

The analog board is advertised as only supporting 15 kHz and 31 kHz, so it doesn't seem to support 1080p output. You'll still need an HDMI-to-VGA DAC for that. Still extremely low latency, and still only one conversion step.

[orange808]

Long term, the OSSC Pro with the analog card should eventually do what OP wants with extremely low (subframe) latency.

The analog board is advertised as only supporting 15 kHz and 31 kHz, so it doesn't seem to support 1080p output. You'll still need an HDMI-to-VGA DAC for that. Still extremely low latency, and still only one conversion step.

Thanks for that.

I need to buy one of those so I can stop speculating about it.

[kitty666cats]

My friend and I did this w/ my PlayStation 4 and his FW900 via an Aurora Dido LT.

A TVone C2 will absolutely work, as well. Scalers with DVI-I in & out negate the need for either a ADC or DAC, which can easily cause a compatibility issue.

Basically, you just want any scaler that has comprehensive (i.e. being able to adjust porch settings and blanking) custom resolutions, digital input and analog RGB out.

And accepts 1080p on the digital input, which I am not certain all iScans have.

Do you have any idea what kind of latency the Aurora Dido LT. has doing that conversion? Also I had a TVOne C2 in the past and it had a lot of latency enough to be a bit annoying do you know if any models are known for having more or less latency? Also I don't need analog out necessarily because I have an HDFury3 which I would assume has a better DAC than most scalers though I could be wrong because they were pretty expensive devices but either way its a very good DAC even if its not the best.

My friend and I didn’t test lag or anything, simply just tested to see if it would output a full 1080p image versus the 1080p w/ the left side of the PS4’s raster cut off using nothing but a HDMI to VGA.

Dido LT is laggy compared to scalers dedicated towards gaming, a friend measured it (not 1080p to 1080p) and it was maybe around 3 frames if memory serves me right. So if that amount of lag ACTUALLY has an impact on your performance (I strongly believe people exaggerate that stuff, I have no issue beating Contra with a NES connected to any ol’ shitty LCD) then I would avoid it.

It can downscale to 240p, but it’s 2024 and we have so many better options. Don’t pay more than $50 (cost of shipping included in that price) and if you were to get it, try to get one with the remote. I don’t particularly suggest it to the general Shmups head since most are quite picky, but I have fun with mine.

The Dido Jr does all the same stuff, but it also rotates. Also note these things don’t input or output RGBS. But they take RGBHV, RGsB and YPbPr.

I wouldn’t bother putting another DAC on the output

[Roboplodicus]

My friend and I didn’t test lag or anything, simply just tested to see if it would output a full 1080p image versus the 1080p w/ the left side of the PS4’s raster cut off using nothing but a HDMI to VGA.

Dido LT is laggy compared to scalers dedicated towards gaming, a friend measured it (not 1080p to 1080p) and it was maybe around 3 frames if memory serves me right. So if that amount of lag ACTUALLY has an impact on your performance (I strongly believe people exaggerate that stuff, I have no issue beating Contra with a NES connected to any ol’ shitty LCD) then I would avoid it.

It can downscale to 240p, but it’s 2024 and we have so many better options. Don’t pay more than $50 (cost of shipping included in that price) and if you were to get it, try to get one with the remote. I don’t particularly suggest it to the general Shmups head since most are quite picky, but I have fun with mine.

The Dido Jr does all the same stuff, but it also rotates. Also note these things don’t input or output RGBS. But they take RGBHV, RGsB and YPbPr.

I wouldn’t bother putting another DAC on the output

Given that there are faster devices I went with the Extron DSC 301 HD which will hopefully be about 1 frame of latency thats what I heard anyway. But ya its true 3 frames of lag is still manageable for a lot of games like shmups, zelda games, puzzle games for sure and probably even FPS/3PS games though thats a bit much for a fighter or speedrunning a platformer like Super Mario 64. Super Mario 64 is a 30fps game and take wallkicks for example if you wall kick frame one then you come out of it faster and higher than a 2nd to 5th frame wall kick, so thats trying to hit a 1/30th of a second window there's only one trick that requires a frame one wall kick but there are a couple that require frame 1-3 wall kicks though obviously you get used to the delay to a degree but it still makes things harder. Same with fighting games like Smash Bros the windows for Z/L canceling is super small and if you miss it you get very punished. Its not like a shmup or FPS game where you just are a couple frame later to getting your crosshairs on someone or dodging out of the way of a projectile. The L-cancel window is only 7 frames long so 3 frames of lag is nearly half the window.

[kitty666cats]

My friend and I didn’t test lag or anything, simply just tested to see if it would output a full 1080p image versus the 1080p w/ the left side of the PS4’s raster cut off using nothing but a HDMI to VGA.

Dido LT is laggy compared to scalers dedicated towards gaming, a friend measured it (not 1080p to 1080p) and it was maybe around 3 frames if memory serves me right. So if that amount of lag ACTUALLY has an impact on your performance (I strongly believe people exaggerate that stuff, I have no issue beating Contra with a NES connected to any ol’ shitty LCD) then I would avoid it.

It can downscale to 240p, but it’s 2024 and we have so many better options. Don’t pay more than $50 (cost of shipping included in that price) and if you were to get it, try to get one with the remote. I don’t particularly suggest it to the general Shmups head since most are quite picky, but I have fun with mine.

The Dido Jr does all the same stuff, but it also rotates. Also note these things don’t input or output RGBS. But they take RGBHV, RGsB and YPbPr.

I wouldn’t bother putting another DAC on the output

Given that there are faster devices I went with the Extron DSC 301 HD which will hopefully be about 1 frame of latency thats what I heard anyway.

Nice. Keep us posted with your results!

[Roboplodicus]

Nice. Keep us posted with your results!

Got the DSC 301 HD in today and got it set up and working! I took some shots of it check them out! https://imgur.com/a/sony-gdm-w900-crt-m ... hd-h5EIqJj

First thoughts I can't feel the lag at all its fantastic. The DVDO iScan HD+ that didn't even take 1080p had 5-7 frames of lag and I can't even feel the lag on this one and I'm actually kind of a fussy baby about input lag. I'll get around to testing it in a bit I have a component to VGA transcoder so I can send 240p test suite to at either 240p or 480p from the wii or maybe 240p/480p/720p from my modded N64 with the "N64 Advanced RGB" mod that has a built in line doubler and tripler and a component out mode. I'm curious is the box will process 240p actually as 240p. The picture adjustments on the DSC 301 HD are great too the W900 is a 27 year old tube and its seen a fair sure of use, though it definitely has a lot of life left in it, but with the box I can crank the brightness or especially contrast up beyond what the contrast/brightness settings on the tube and in game allow and it actually makes a super dark game like The Darkness much more playable because the monitor by modern standards does have low contrast. All in all super pleased with the box AND I love the grey industrial asthetic too it matches my other two extron boxes perfectly.

Seriously excellent purchase 10/10

[kitty666cats]

AFAIK the thing doesn’t ’recognize’ 240p…? Considering how everyone here distinctly touts its efficacy for *480p*, haha.

But don’t quote me on that - maybe it does properly handle 240p but it’s entirely unremarkable. Pretty sure it detects it as 480i though; feel like I would remember if people talked about using it for 240p.

[orange808]

The DVDO iScan HD+ that didn't even take 1080p had 5-7 frames of lag and I can't even feel the lag on this one and I'm actually kind of a fussy baby about input lag.

.
That's very odd. You must have an odd unicorn or a malfunctioning unit.

IIRC, the DVDO iScan HD+ is around 6ms with frame lock and the lag tops out at one frame in free run for progressive sources. I don't remember how 1080p was handled; I think the machine just handles it as "passthrough".

I don't remember the deinterlacing latency, but I seriously doubt the machine was buffering five to seven frames. I have a Realta HQV machine that really does buffer that many frames and it's painful. I remember feeding 240p to the iScan HD+ and the machine handles it as 480i. Even with deinterlacing, the lag never spiked much. It definitely wasn't slow like a Realta. (Beware of the HDRetrovision video processor document that recommends the iScan HD+ for direct 240p processing. They were mistaken.)
.

I'll get around to testing it in a bit I have a component to VGA transcoder so I can send 240p test suite to at either 240p or 480p from the wii or maybe 240p/480p/720p from my modded N64 with the "N64 Advanced RGB" mod that has a built in line doubler and tripler and a component out mode. I'm curious is the box will process 240p actually as 240p.

The Extron DSC 301 HD (along with most Extron video scalers) does not properly handle 240p. It will apply deinterlacing. Boot up Sonic and you'll see it instantly.

[orange808]

Long term, the OSSC Pro with the analog card should eventually do what OP wants with extremely low (subframe) latency.

The analog board is advertised as only supporting 15 kHz and 31 kHz, so it doesn't seem to support 1080p output.

What output resolutions do the Extra AV add-on board support? The product page on VGP just says "15khz and 31khz output supported", and I'm assuming that all the "CRT output modes" listed on the wiki like 540p, XGA, QVGA, would all probably work, but does the analog output support higher resolutions from "DFP output mode" too, like say 1600x1200, 1920x1080p, or 1920x1440? In my current setup I have basically everything run through an RGBHV distribution amplifier connected to CRT monitors, LCD TVs, etc and it'd work best if I could just keep everything analog.

The DAC is rated to 140MHz so it should work fine at least up to 1920x1080p.

It appears the OSSC Pro with the analog board will handle the job without an external DAC.

[Guspaz]

This kind of information should really be on the product page, which is incredibly sparse compared to the extensive detailed specs on VGP's Morph 4K product page.

In that case, I'd suggest that the OSSC Pro with the analog output board is probably an excellent option for this use case.

[Frosal]

Anyone know if I can use 1T-C2-750 for this issue?

Brochure link: https://tvone.com/filestore/Brochures/1 ... %20(1).pdf

It has HDMI, DVI and YUV/YPbPr

[LDigital]

I used to have this monitor and know the problem.


Use a hdmi > vga adaptor > ossc (original) on passthrough mode > hdmi to vga adaptor > monitor


This chain will clean things up and get it working. The ossc does something to sort out the signal

Did you try a basic ossc? pro version not needed. I had this monitor and setup so can attest it works

[Guspaz]

It works at the expense of the quality loss from doing digital -> analog -> digital -> analog conversion instead of digital -> analog conversion. That's what the OSSC Pro is adding to that chain, you're skipping the extra conversion.