Movies you've just watched
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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: Movies you've just watched
Once Upon a Time in America - 7.5/10
This is really hard to rate; first of all, it's looooooong, and the while things get more exciting in the second half, the first half drags a bit IMHO. Morricone scored it, it's a bit too melodramatic to my taste. Surprising amount of violence and sex; I can only imagine how American mainstream audiences reacted to it in 1983 (!). Rather light on characterization. This might be a hot take, but I think Leone peaked with Good, Bad and the Ugly; Once Upon a Time in the West was awesome, but had its lengths, Duck, You Sucker! was still great, but also overlong and not as on point as Good, ... was. Once Upon a Time in America continued that trend. Maybe it's all good and well that Leone only made the 8 films he made.
This is really hard to rate; first of all, it's looooooong, and the while things get more exciting in the second half, the first half drags a bit IMHO. Morricone scored it, it's a bit too melodramatic to my taste. Surprising amount of violence and sex; I can only imagine how American mainstream audiences reacted to it in 1983 (!). Rather light on characterization. This might be a hot take, but I think Leone peaked with Good, Bad and the Ugly; Once Upon a Time in the West was awesome, but had its lengths, Duck, You Sucker! was still great, but also overlong and not as on point as Good, ... was. Once Upon a Time in America continued that trend. Maybe it's all good and well that Leone only made the 8 films he made.
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cj iwakura
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Re: Movies you've just watched
If it doesn't have a release in South Florida by now, I don't see how it's even possible to see it.vol.2 wrote: ↑Sun May 11, 2025 4:14 pm Secret Mall Apartment (2024) 9/10
Documentary film about the group of artists in Rhode Island who moved furniture into an empty space in the bowels of a mall in downtown Providence.
Narratively framed around the footage the artists took of their experiences during the initial 3 years of their project, and filled out with more in-depth looks at the individual artists. The constituent elements of footage are woven together to form a narrative about the destruction of downtown Providence and American communal spaces to make way for outsized corporatization.
I would give it a 10 out of 10 if I liked the music better. It's not bad music; it does it's job very well and is not distracting, but it's unremarkable and a bit out dated sounding background music IMHO. Just workmanlike and nothing special.
The director, Jeremy Workman, was in the audience and answered questions afterwards. He was really fantastic, and I can see where all the energy in the film comes from. His next film is going to be a documentary about a school in South Korea that teaches the children of North Korean defectors. He's just starting principal photography on it, and I'm excited to see it.
I highly recommend the Mall Apartment film, and I urge anyone interested to go see it ASAP as he said in the QA that there will be no streaming deal for it as he doesn't do that. The current release might be your only change to ever see it.

heli wrote:Why is milestone director in prison ?, are his game to difficult ?
Re: Movies you've just watched
Closest place I see is Enzian Theater & Cinema Café in Orlando. It will probably see some limited rerelease in theaters that play independent films because it's getting such high numbers reviews. I would assume that some place in the Miami area would probably play it eventually?cj iwakura wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 1:57 am If it doesn't have a release in South Florida by now, I don't see how it's even possible to see it.
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cj iwakura
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Re: Movies you've just watched
You would hope, but usually someone will show it some love by now, at least in fricking Wynwood. I was able to see Yoga Hosers for god sakes.vol.2 wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 5:33 pmClosest place I see is Enzian Theater & Cinema Café in Orlando. It will probably see some limited rerelease in theaters that play independent films because it's getting such high numbers reviews. I would assume that some place in the Miami area would probably play it eventually?cj iwakura wrote: ↑Mon May 12, 2025 1:57 am If it doesn't have a release in South Florida by now, I don't see how it's even possible to see it.

heli wrote:Why is milestone director in prison ?, are his game to difficult ?
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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: Movies you've just watched
Violent Cop - 8/10
Last watched this a couple of decades ago and liked it but always compared it to Kitano's Sonatine (despite it being a very different film) and thought it was a lot weaker. This time around I thought it was great. The cinematography was excellent as well, the film looks amazing. It's a lot more multi-layered than I remember as well, KItano's character is a psychopath, but he still has principles, it seems, but still the whole thing is pretty nihilistic. Really looking forward to watching Boiling Point and Scene by the Sea, both of which I have only watched a couple of times decades ago.
Meh: My video projector might be on his way out; it's gotten quite noisy, and it's pretty annoying in quiet scenes. If any of you guys can recommend anything under a thousand bucks, let me know.
Last watched this a couple of decades ago and liked it but always compared it to Kitano's Sonatine (despite it being a very different film) and thought it was a lot weaker. This time around I thought it was great. The cinematography was excellent as well, the film looks amazing. It's a lot more multi-layered than I remember as well, KItano's character is a psychopath, but he still has principles, it seems, but still the whole thing is pretty nihilistic. Really looking forward to watching Boiling Point and Scene by the Sea, both of which I have only watched a couple of times decades ago.
Meh: My video projector might be on his way out; it's gotten quite noisy, and it's pretty annoying in quiet scenes. If any of you guys can recommend anything under a thousand bucks, let me know.
Re: Movies you've just watched
I prefer Sonatine too. Sonatine is an art film pretending to be a gangster movie.
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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: Movies you've just watched
Sonatine is in my top three films of all time-list (along with Ghost in the Shell 2 and Tsukamoto's Tokyo Fist). Must have watched it 30 times at least, and so far, it hasn't lost its edge. It's so different to anything else, and I would describe every aspect of it as marvellous, including the OST, which is among Joe Hisaishi's best work.
Re: Movies you've just watched
High praise indeed. Sounds like I should check out some Kitano. I've only encountered him via his role in BR.ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 8:36 am Sonatine is in my top three films of all time-list (along with Ghost in the Shell 2 and Tsukamoto's Tokyo Fist).
Nice comments re. Leone's last film. I've seen it many times and it's become like a comfy pair of slippers I'll ease into when I'm guaranteed 3.5 undisturbed hours. It's pretty hard to overlook some of the shit Noodles did when we hear Beatles music and he's lamenting those decades past. Deborah did right in telling him to get lost at the end (what he really deserved was a sledgehammer to his ancient balls!).
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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: Movies you've just watched
Sonatine, Hana-Bi and Kikujiro are all great films. Kikujiro was a nice change, it was a bit sugary, but compared to Kitano's nihilistic gangster films it was refreshing to see a happy end for a change.
Cheers man. I agree re: Noodles, all the male characters are total cunts in this film.RGC wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 10:33 amHigh praise indeed. Sounds like I should check out some Kitano. I've only encountered him via his role in BR.ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 8:36 am Sonatine is in my top three films of all time-list (along with Ghost in the Shell 2 and Tsukamoto's Tokyo Fist).
Nice comments re. Leone's last film. I've seen it many times and it's become like a comfy pair of slippers I'll ease into when I'm guaranteed 3.5 undisturbed hours. It's pretty hard to overlook some of the shit Noodles did when we hear Beatles music and he's lamenting those decades past. Deborah did right in telling him to get lost at the end (what he really deserved was a sledgehammer to his ancient balls!).
You should definitely check out Kitano's work; I'd recommend you start with Violent Cop, then watch Sonatine and Hana-Bi next. (with BR you were referring to Battle Royale? that knife-throwing scene was hilarious and fits Kitano's public persona really well)
Re: Movies you've just watched
I'll check those out! Kitano sounds like Japan's answer to Klaus Kinski.ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 2:05 pm You should definitely check out Kitano's work; I'd recommend you start with Violent Cop, then watch Sonatine and Hana-Bi next. (with BR you were referring to Battle Royale? that knife-throwing scene was hilarious and fits Kitano's public persona really well)

Edit: Sorry, yeah Battle Royale. It's been multiple decades since I saw that one.
Re: Movies you've just watched
Never forget 



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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: Movies you've just watched
It's surreal that if you grew up in Germany in the early 90s, you will be familiar with Takeshi Kitano - most people my age group still remember Takeshi's Castle, which we watched every day. My mind was thoroughly blown when later in the 90s I stumbled upon Sonatine while zapping through channels during a commercial break. I was so mesmerized I totally forgot about the other film, and for a couple of years, I was obsessed with Kitano and his films. I even imitated the way he walked and smoked. 

Re: Movies you've just watched
I found out about Sonatine through Quinten Tarantino, who used his fame following the success of Pulp Fiction to promote many of his favorite East Asian films. He collaborated with Kino International to curate his favorite films as VHS releases, and they featured an interview with him talking about why they were important to him, etc.ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 6:10 pmMy mind was thoroughly blown when later in the 90s I stumbled upon Sonatine while zapping through channels during a commercial break.
This is also how I found out about Wong Kar-Wai back when Chungking Express was still a relatively recent release, and became a fan of his films in the 90s.
I can't say I much liked many of Tarantino's films after Pulp Fiction, but I respect his taste and perspective on international film, and I'm glad he did those promotions.
Re: Movies you've just watched
A Minecraft Movie: **
Quite frankly, I'm not sure what to make of this. Jared Hess is known for being a rather polarizing director, with Napoleon Dynamite in particular being a film that broke the Netflix recommendation algorithm with how strongly negative or positive most opinions of the film are, with little middle ground in between. I can tell you my brother and my sister thought Napoleon Dynamite was one of the funniest films they had ever seen, while I made it about ten minutes in before I turned it off. This definitely feels like a Jared Hess film through and through, with Jack Black and Jason Momoa in the lead roles and a fictitious small-town Idaho setting (which is actually filmed in New Zealand for some reason) for the parts that aren't in the Minecraft overworld. Your enjoyment of the movie will probably depend a fair bit on your tolerance for the scenery chewing antics of the two stars, with the other, allegedly more relatable characters kind of drowned out by it.
I've played a fair bit of survival Minecraft over the years, and watched even more of it on YouTube (especially Hermitcraft, which I've been following since Season 7.) In spite of that, much of the plot of the movie (which reading wiki pages seems to suggest probably came more from Minecraft Legends and Minecraft Dungeons than it did from Minecraft itself) still feels foreign and disjointed, and you get the sense that a lot of the context ended up on the cutting room floor. To their credit, they did go to great lengths to make sure that the logic of the in-movie world is internally consistent with the sometimes bizarre mechanics of Minecraft, but you also get the sense that the movie would have been 45 minutes shorter if an even moderately competent Minecraft player was the protagonist. I'm sure they'll make a franchise out of this, but I can also think of about 20 other ways to do a Minecraft movie that would have been more enjoyable than this one.
Quite frankly, I'm not sure what to make of this. Jared Hess is known for being a rather polarizing director, with Napoleon Dynamite in particular being a film that broke the Netflix recommendation algorithm with how strongly negative or positive most opinions of the film are, with little middle ground in between. I can tell you my brother and my sister thought Napoleon Dynamite was one of the funniest films they had ever seen, while I made it about ten minutes in before I turned it off. This definitely feels like a Jared Hess film through and through, with Jack Black and Jason Momoa in the lead roles and a fictitious small-town Idaho setting (which is actually filmed in New Zealand for some reason) for the parts that aren't in the Minecraft overworld. Your enjoyment of the movie will probably depend a fair bit on your tolerance for the scenery chewing antics of the two stars, with the other, allegedly more relatable characters kind of drowned out by it.
I've played a fair bit of survival Minecraft over the years, and watched even more of it on YouTube (especially Hermitcraft, which I've been following since Season 7.) In spite of that, much of the plot of the movie (which reading wiki pages seems to suggest probably came more from Minecraft Legends and Minecraft Dungeons than it did from Minecraft itself) still feels foreign and disjointed, and you get the sense that a lot of the context ended up on the cutting room floor. To their credit, they did go to great lengths to make sure that the logic of the in-movie world is internally consistent with the sometimes bizarre mechanics of Minecraft, but you also get the sense that the movie would have been 45 minutes shorter if an even moderately competent Minecraft player was the protagonist. I'm sure they'll make a franchise out of this, but I can also think of about 20 other ways to do a Minecraft movie that would have been more enjoyable than this one.
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ChurchOfSolipsism
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Re: Movies you've just watched
The man catches a lot of flack, but there can be no doubt about his dedication to film culture. I remember stumbling upon a US DVD of Sonatine in the late 90s at a film flea market that had been published by Rolling Thunder Pictures. It's amazing that you found all these wonderful films this way!vol.2 wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 6:32 pmI found out about Sonatine through Quinten Tarantino, who used his fame following the success of Pulp Fiction to promote many of his favorite East Asian films. He collaborated with Kino International to curate his favorite films as VHS releases, and they featured an interview with him talking about why they were important to him, etc.ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ↑Tue May 13, 2025 6:10 pmMy mind was thoroughly blown when later in the 90s I stumbled upon Sonatine while zapping through channels during a commercial break.
This is also how I found out about Wong Kar-Wai back when Chungking Express was still a relatively recent release, and became a fan of his films in the 90s.
I can't say I much liked many of Tarantino's films after Pulp Fiction, but I respect his taste and perspective on international film, and I'm glad he did those promotions.
Re: Movies you've just watched
I loved Pulp Fiction and Kill Bill; I thought Reservoir Dogs and Jackie Brown and Inglorious Bastards were good but not amazing; Django Unchained and Hateful Eight bored me; I haven't seen Once Upon a Time in Hollywood yet.ChurchOfSolipsism wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 11:59 am The man catches a lot of flack, but there can be no doubt about his dedication to film culture.
He's a bit in the middle of some controversies, but he was never the guy. Worst thing he ever did was not take his actors complaints about Weinstein seriously enough.
Re: Movies you've just watched
My 2 cents on Tarantino: While he's almost insufferable to listen to when discussing his own projects, I have to admit I have nothing but respect for the passion that comes across when he talks about other people's works, especially his influences. It's clear he values movies - be they action, horror, gangsta, or whatever genre - as just as worthy an artform as any other (damn straight!). It's just nice to hear anyone speaking with positive passion in this day and age.
Ironically, in the context of movies as art, the film of his I've returned to a bunch of times probably requires the least amount of effort to digest (Once Upon a Time in Hollywood). Veritable slop, perhaps. But I love how it conjures the period, however faithful that rendering may be (it's clear from his history rewrites, he's not in the business of making documentaries
). Leo is ace in Once Upon... and the soundtrack is fantastic. Plus it's funny, and generally speaking Tarantino does funny rather well. The story may be all but non existent, but it has enough charm not to matter. Pulp will always be peak T, imo, which must pain him every time he hears that comment (and which I bet is a lot), but if I'm honest he's not made anything I've detested. The most egregious of the lot for me were Kill Bill 1&2, which came across more like a parody of the genre they intended to honour. Hateful Eight & Django Unchained will not be revisited either. I found them to be way too long and self-indulgent (even if self-indulgence is kind of his signature; that and the whole pastiche thing).
@CoS, randomly, I came across a copy of Tokyo Fist today. Given your 'top 3' comment, and the fact it was on sale, I just had to snag it. I'll let you know how I get on with it.
Ironically, in the context of movies as art, the film of his I've returned to a bunch of times probably requires the least amount of effort to digest (Once Upon a Time in Hollywood). Veritable slop, perhaps. But I love how it conjures the period, however faithful that rendering may be (it's clear from his history rewrites, he's not in the business of making documentaries

@CoS, randomly, I came across a copy of Tokyo Fist today. Given your 'top 3' comment, and the fact it was on sale, I just had to snag it. I'll let you know how I get on with it.

Re: Movies you've just watched
It's hard to top it. Pulp Fiction is not just his best film, it's one of the best films ever made. It represents the culmination of all the new ideas that he wanted to bring to film, which he then expanded on in varyingly unsuccessful ways in subsequent films.
They were both a parody and an homage. I thought both films were fun and entertaining and just a great thing to have on the tube on a Saturday afternoon while working on a project. Exactly the kind of vibe I used to get from tuning into stuff on network TV in the 80s and 90s on the weekends. That genre was never supposed to be some kind of serious masterpiece. They are like elevated b movies.The most egregious of the lot for me were Kill Bill 1&2, which came across more like a parody of the genre they intended to honour.
They were technically very good films, and I think that at that time, QT was kind of obsessed with trying to add substance in the form of technique to his oeuvre. Hateful Eight in particular is quite beautifully shot, and it was absolutely visually stunning in the original 70mm theatrical cut. That didn't stop it from dragging though, and the fact that it was essentially shot in a single location really made it feel claustrophobic, and significantly reduced the impact of the action sequences.Hateful Eight & Django Unchained will not be revisited either. I found them to be way too long and self-indulgent (even if self-indulgence is kind of his signature; that and the whole pastiche thing).
Re: Movies you've just watched
Well put. I didn't properly articulate why Hateful Eight didn't quite hit the mark for me. I thought it looked fantastic, and I liked the casting and generally the concept too. I wouldn't even complain about the claustrophobic element, as the events of Reservoir Dogs were largely in one room and that worked fine (though admittedly we did see some street action for contrast). Ultimately, this one felt like a very long mysterious build up to a payoff that didn't warrant the wait, and I was utterly bored by the time it got there. I'm already hard to engage for 3 hours, so it needs to be something quite special I can connect with (i.e. LotR, you can get fucked
).
Kill Bill I was perhaps not ready for, or just didn't process in the intended way. I love the genre(s) it's inspired by, but for whatever reason it irked me every time this mouthy, know-it-all director called for another crash zoom, had the wizened master stroke his moustache, or had hollywood actors perform unconvincing (insert animal) style kung fu moves of 70s HK cinema (Carradine gets more of a pass, even though I believe everything he learned was through osmosis on various sets). I dunno, I was more forgiving of Keanu and Laurence doing exactly the same thing in The Matrix, but then the directors weren't trying to imitate another genre, and were aiming for something that felt genuinely new. Quentin's effort came across like he was making a mockery of a genre he claims to love, but I appreciate it's a difficult line to tread. The fact he had buy in from legends like Gordon Liu actually made it worse in my mind, as I saw this as debasement (at the time). Who knows, I haven't seen them since release so perhaps I just need to pull the stick out and give them another go.

Kill Bill I was perhaps not ready for, or just didn't process in the intended way. I love the genre(s) it's inspired by, but for whatever reason it irked me every time this mouthy, know-it-all director called for another crash zoom, had the wizened master stroke his moustache, or had hollywood actors perform unconvincing (insert animal) style kung fu moves of 70s HK cinema (Carradine gets more of a pass, even though I believe everything he learned was through osmosis on various sets). I dunno, I was more forgiving of Keanu and Laurence doing exactly the same thing in The Matrix, but then the directors weren't trying to imitate another genre, and were aiming for something that felt genuinely new. Quentin's effort came across like he was making a mockery of a genre he claims to love, but I appreciate it's a difficult line to tread. The fact he had buy in from legends like Gordon Liu actually made it worse in my mind, as I saw this as debasement (at the time). Who knows, I haven't seen them since release so perhaps I just need to pull the stick out and give them another go.
Last edited by RGC on Thu May 15, 2025 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Movies you've just watched
I really love film makers who are nerds about films, just like I love musicians who are nerds about music.RGC wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 7:19 pm My 2 cents on Tarantino: While he's almost insufferable to listen to when discussing his own projects, I have to admit I have nothing but respect for the passion that comes across when he talks about other people's works, especially his influences. It's clear he values movies - be they action, horror, gangsta, or whatever genre - as just as worthy an artform as any other (damn straight!). It's just nice to hear anyone speaking with positive passion in this day and age.
Scorsese gives me the same vibes. He absolutely loves movies, he's watched practically everything, and is generally very positively minded. I love hearing him talk about this stuff.
Re: Movies you've just watched
Sumez wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 1:57 pmI really love film makers who are nerds about films, just like I love musicians who are nerds about music.RGC wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 7:19 pm My 2 cents on Tarantino: While he's almost insufferable to listen to when discussing his own projects, I have to admit I have nothing but respect for the passion that comes across when he talks about other people's works, especially his influences. It's clear he values movies - be they action, horror, gangsta, or whatever genre - as just as worthy an artform as any other (damn straight!). It's just nice to hear anyone speaking with positive passion in this day and age.
Scorsese gives me the same vibes. He absolutely loves movies, he's watched practically everything, and is generally very positively minded. I love hearing him talk about this stuff.
Yeah me too! That's why I'd much rather connect with people who are positively vibing about something I also love than dwell too long on the films, music, books, and other media that don't work for me...
...despite my last post.

Edit: At this point, I should also fess up to having a soft spot for Death Proof.

Last edited by RGC on Thu May 15, 2025 3:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Movies you've just watched
IMO Kill Bill, Basterds and probably Django are all much better than Pulp Fiction

I also liked bits of Once Upon a Time better, it just lacks something to really tie the knot together. But so does Pulp Fiction.
Re: Movies you've just watched
I completely respect that. I think the reason I didn't find it so off-putting is that I didn't go into it with any expectations. By the time KB came out, it had been 6 years since Jackie Brown, and I found that movie to be competent, but overly long and somewhat boring. QT had entirely failed to excite me for long enough that I wasn't looking for anything from him at all, so when KB came out, it just seemed like a bit of fun, and more fun and humor than he had delivered in a long time.RGC wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 1:43 pm Kill Bill I was perhaps not ready for, or just didn't process in the intended way. I love the genre(s) it's inspired by, but for whatever reason it irked me every time this mouthy, know-it-all director called for another crash zoom, had the wizened master stroke his moustache, or had hollywood actors perform unconvincing (insert animal) style kung fu moves of 70s HK cinema (Carradine gets more of a pass, even though I believe everything he learned was through osmosis on various sets). I dunno, I was more forgiving of Keanu and Laurence doing exactly same thing in The Matrix, but then the directors weren't trying to imitate another genre, and were aiming for something that felt genuinely new. Quentin's effort came across like he was making a mockery of a genre he claims to love, but I appreciate it's a difficult line to tread. The fact he had buy in from legends like Gordon Liu actually made it worse in my mind, as I saw this as debasement (at the time). Who knows, I haven't seen them since release so perhaps I just need to pull the stick out and give them another go.
I think that's kind of the essence of it for me actually. QT does fun really well, but he doesn't want to be the fun guy, he wants to be the serious guy. The irony of it all is that he actually produces his most meaningful work when he doesn't lean so hard on making something important.
I think it's a cultural thing. There's a lot of subtle lines and set work in PF that you probably would miss if you weren't a Gen X aged American. I can appreciate how that probably effects the film's overall likeability. It's also not the same movie now that it was on release. There's a lot of clever film design in PF that has been completely absorbed into the language of film as a whole, and going back to watch it now, it just feels like gags that have been done a million times over. I am judging it based on what it was on release, watching it in the theater.
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Re: Movies you've just watched
RGC wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 2:08 pmSumez wrote: ↑Thu May 15, 2025 1:57 pmI really love film makers who are nerds about films, just like I love musicians who are nerds about music.RGC wrote: ↑Wed May 14, 2025 7:19 pm My 2 cents on Tarantino: While he's almost insufferable to listen to when discussing his own projects, I have to admit I have nothing but respect for the passion that comes across when he talks about other people's works, especially his influences. It's clear he values movies - be they action, horror, gangsta, or whatever genre - as just as worthy an artform as any other (damn straight!). It's just nice to hear anyone speaking with positive passion in this day and age.
Scorsese gives me the same vibes. He absolutely loves movies, he's watched practically everything, and is generally very positively minded. I love hearing him talk about this stuff.
Yeah me too! That's why I'd much rather connect with people who are positively vibing about something I also love than dwell too long on the films, music, books, and other media that don't work for me...
...despite my last post.Hey, if I felt indifferent about Tarantino, I wouldn't have bothered complaining about the films of his that missed the mark for me. Problem is he shot his wad and set the bar too high with Pulp. How can anything measure up after that? I thought it was a shame he cancelled his most recent project. But then, knowing how much he (justifiably) adores Taxi Driver, I'd prefer he made something other than an inferior homage to that film.
Edit: At this point, I should also fess up to having a soft spot for Death Proof.![]()
Yes, Quentin's cancelled "The Critic" movie would've been something to watch/behold as his tenth and swansong film to end his film director career -- but alas, it wasn't meant to be.
PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
Re: Ey Up Chuck
Some rambling comments:Lord British wrote: ↑Fri Apr 18, 2025 11:02 pm Oh btw I'm ordering every one of you to cancel your plans and watch The Long Good Friday tonight.
The Long Good Friday (1980) Dir. John MacKenzie
Spoiler
Had a few false starts with this one over the years. The main reason was always the OTT “Laahndaner” (Londoner) characterizations, especially from Bob Hoskins, who dials it up to eleven and keeps it there. I finally sat and 1SC'd it last night (1 sitting cleared), and realised I'd made a stupid misjudgment.
Harold Shand (Hoskins) is an established gangster with control over much of London. He has ambitions for extending his domain and its profitability, both for him and all his associates. “There's plenty of money for everyone,” he says. But a mysterious rival keeps trying to blow him up, and these attempts draw the wrong kind of attention from US mafia reps, who have come to England's capital to close a lucrative deal with Shand, but who are now getting twitchy. The plot thickens as Harold and his tough nuts get heavy with anyone who might know anything, while his increasingly concerned wife (Helen Mirren), from whom he keeps no secrets, suggests he should look closer to home for the culprit.
Bit obscure, but one of the first things to leap out at me was the music during the opening scene, as a man is doing a deal, opening a briefcase full of cash. I instantly associated this with the music during the jewel heist scene of platinum-grade comedy, A Fish Called Wanda (1988). Handmade Films was the production company behind The Long Good Friday, a company with very close ties to the Monty Python crew (via their manager Denis O'Brien). So my guess is there was a little nod or in-joke going on there in Wanda, which was both co-written and co-directed by John Cleese of said Python team.
If you were around in 70s or 80s Britain, you'll see various familiar and semi familiar faces from UK TV and film of that era, some of whom went on to appear in Guy Ritchie's London gangster black comedies, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch – the former being another HandMade production. I instantly recognised “Razors” (P.H. Moriarty) from his roles as bastard warder in Scum (1979) and as “Hatchet Harry” in Lock Stock… And also Alan Ford, who appeared in both Ritchie’s aforementioned comedies (“Brick Top” being his most memorable role - “Feed ‘em to the pigs!”). Shand's sidekick Jeff (Derek Thompson) later became part of the furniture for TV hospital drama, Casualty. I even noted Karl Howman in there, who played Jacko in Brush Strokes, a pretty bland but popular UK comedy show. In the mix, before they were famous, there’s also Pierce Brosnan and Paul Freeman (of Raiders of the Lost Ark villainous fame). So yeah, quite the line up.
I thought this had a great story and, despite being about London gangsters, didn't fall into the territory of excess it might easily have. Shand isn't portrayed in the stereotypical way. He doesn't kill, maim and torture for sadistic pleasure. He generally prefers peace and calm. He cries when his friend gets killed. He apologises after he rage-shoves his wife. And though he does have a very violent streak in him, that is simply necessary for a man in his position (it would be implausible for anyone to rise to power in that world without a willingness to do violence when it's deemed appropriate, i.e. to maintain that power). He even pays some hoodlums compensatory cash for being wrongly hung up like beef (literally) and interrogated! So, while the violence is definitely there and may not be subtle, it never feels excessive, which I think makes Shand a bit more believable and interesting; certainly less cartoonish than I'd perceived him the first time I tried to watch this.

Harold Shand (Hoskins) is an established gangster with control over much of London. He has ambitions for extending his domain and its profitability, both for him and all his associates. “There's plenty of money for everyone,” he says. But a mysterious rival keeps trying to blow him up, and these attempts draw the wrong kind of attention from US mafia reps, who have come to England's capital to close a lucrative deal with Shand, but who are now getting twitchy. The plot thickens as Harold and his tough nuts get heavy with anyone who might know anything, while his increasingly concerned wife (Helen Mirren), from whom he keeps no secrets, suggests he should look closer to home for the culprit.
Bit obscure, but one of the first things to leap out at me was the music during the opening scene, as a man is doing a deal, opening a briefcase full of cash. I instantly associated this with the music during the jewel heist scene of platinum-grade comedy, A Fish Called Wanda (1988). Handmade Films was the production company behind The Long Good Friday, a company with very close ties to the Monty Python crew (via their manager Denis O'Brien). So my guess is there was a little nod or in-joke going on there in Wanda, which was both co-written and co-directed by John Cleese of said Python team.
If you were around in 70s or 80s Britain, you'll see various familiar and semi familiar faces from UK TV and film of that era, some of whom went on to appear in Guy Ritchie's London gangster black comedies, Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels and Snatch – the former being another HandMade production. I instantly recognised “Razors” (P.H. Moriarty) from his roles as bastard warder in Scum (1979) and as “Hatchet Harry” in Lock Stock… And also Alan Ford, who appeared in both Ritchie’s aforementioned comedies (“Brick Top” being his most memorable role - “Feed ‘em to the pigs!”). Shand's sidekick Jeff (Derek Thompson) later became part of the furniture for TV hospital drama, Casualty. I even noted Karl Howman in there, who played Jacko in Brush Strokes, a pretty bland but popular UK comedy show. In the mix, before they were famous, there’s also Pierce Brosnan and Paul Freeman (of Raiders of the Lost Ark villainous fame). So yeah, quite the line up.
I thought this had a great story and, despite being about London gangsters, didn't fall into the territory of excess it might easily have. Shand isn't portrayed in the stereotypical way. He doesn't kill, maim and torture for sadistic pleasure. He generally prefers peace and calm. He cries when his friend gets killed. He apologises after he rage-shoves his wife. And though he does have a very violent streak in him, that is simply necessary for a man in his position (it would be implausible for anyone to rise to power in that world without a willingness to do violence when it's deemed appropriate, i.e. to maintain that power). He even pays some hoodlums compensatory cash for being wrongly hung up like beef (literally) and interrogated! So, while the violence is definitely there and may not be subtle, it never feels excessive, which I think makes Shand a bit more believable and interesting; certainly less cartoonish than I'd perceived him the first time I tried to watch this.

Re: Movies you've just watched
Further ramblings...
The Firm (1988) Dir. Alan Clarke
The Firm (1988) Dir. Alan Clarke
Spoiler
Violence is order of the day in this footy thug piece, which originally aired on UK TV as an episode in the BBC anthology series, Screen Two (season 5, episode 8, if you're interested). It follows a few days in the life of dapper looking football supporter and serial scrapper, Bex (Gary Oldman). He has a job, a partner and a young kid (for whom his responsibility extends to teaching the kid to say “piss off”; the mum handles the rest of the duties). In parallel with shirking the role of fatherhood, Bex has a constant craving for “the buzz”, which comes in the form of ultra violence against rival firms (so called because they operate in an organised manner). In this case the rival gang is a similar group who feels threatened by Bex and his entourage, and can't wait to hand them a drubbing.
Despite having bedroom walls adorned with newspaper cuttings and posters of footballers, firm members only actually care about violence. The sport is just a means to access and indulge in that passion. This is a subject Alan Clarke was fascinated by; it crops up multiple times throughout his career, and is usually met with both acclaim and controversy. The Director's Cut DVD I bought also contains his short film, Elephant, which cuts to the very core of the subject, leaving out character and context altogether, and simply showing repeated acts of violence happening in undefined places, being perpetrated by and towards unnamed people. It's supposed to represent “the troubles” of Northern Ireland, but distilled into a form that offers no commentary or opinion, and no glamour; just the raw acts themselves. This differs a fair bit from his earlier exploration of the theme of violence in Scum (1979), where it serves as a tool for survival, and for retaining some personal sense of power in an otherwise powerless situation. I love Clarke's Scum, but find its message that power (particularly of the physical type), only corrupts and is abused by all who wield it, thoroughly depressing; perhaps because it reveals a truth.
Just like The Long Good Friday, there are a few familiar faces in The Firm who went on to become fixtures in UK TV dramas (you'd have to have been living under a rock not to recognise either Charles Lawson of Coronation Street, or Steve McFadden of Eastenders fame, even if those dreary soaps are not your thing, and they're certainly not mine!). Again, we also have one or two actors who later worked with Guy Ritchie in his gangster comedies.
The film is very much shot with a late 80s UK TV budget, and in some of the tracking shots you can see the jiggle with each step the cameraman takes as he walks behind or alongside the actors. I wouldn't say this lessens the film's impact though. Quite the opposite, as it borders on fly-on-wall because of this effect. First impression when meeting Bex is that he looks way too fresh faced and handsome to be obsessed with street fighting for fun. But as the film unfolds, he becomes increasingly believable as an absolute menace. Unlike the rest of his gang, he has some guile and quick wit about him, plus a good degree of charm. But he's a brutal sadist who cares more for the buzz of winning a dirty punch up and his pride than for the safety of his family (it wouldn't be hard for his rivals to find out where his partner lives), so that tells you everything.
It's almost hard to believe Oldman played Dracula in the Bram Stoker retelling only 3-4 years after this was released, but then I remember how versatile and chameleonic an actor he's always been. My only minor criticism of this film is that a seasoned street thug like Bex would not be quite so pretty. I'd expect at the very least he’d have a scar across the top of his nose, a missing tooth or something. Powerful stuff.

Despite having bedroom walls adorned with newspaper cuttings and posters of footballers, firm members only actually care about violence. The sport is just a means to access and indulge in that passion. This is a subject Alan Clarke was fascinated by; it crops up multiple times throughout his career, and is usually met with both acclaim and controversy. The Director's Cut DVD I bought also contains his short film, Elephant, which cuts to the very core of the subject, leaving out character and context altogether, and simply showing repeated acts of violence happening in undefined places, being perpetrated by and towards unnamed people. It's supposed to represent “the troubles” of Northern Ireland, but distilled into a form that offers no commentary or opinion, and no glamour; just the raw acts themselves. This differs a fair bit from his earlier exploration of the theme of violence in Scum (1979), where it serves as a tool for survival, and for retaining some personal sense of power in an otherwise powerless situation. I love Clarke's Scum, but find its message that power (particularly of the physical type), only corrupts and is abused by all who wield it, thoroughly depressing; perhaps because it reveals a truth.
Just like The Long Good Friday, there are a few familiar faces in The Firm who went on to become fixtures in UK TV dramas (you'd have to have been living under a rock not to recognise either Charles Lawson of Coronation Street, or Steve McFadden of Eastenders fame, even if those dreary soaps are not your thing, and they're certainly not mine!). Again, we also have one or two actors who later worked with Guy Ritchie in his gangster comedies.
The film is very much shot with a late 80s UK TV budget, and in some of the tracking shots you can see the jiggle with each step the cameraman takes as he walks behind or alongside the actors. I wouldn't say this lessens the film's impact though. Quite the opposite, as it borders on fly-on-wall because of this effect. First impression when meeting Bex is that he looks way too fresh faced and handsome to be obsessed with street fighting for fun. But as the film unfolds, he becomes increasingly believable as an absolute menace. Unlike the rest of his gang, he has some guile and quick wit about him, plus a good degree of charm. But he's a brutal sadist who cares more for the buzz of winning a dirty punch up and his pride than for the safety of his family (it wouldn't be hard for his rivals to find out where his partner lives), so that tells you everything.
It's almost hard to believe Oldman played Dracula in the Bram Stoker retelling only 3-4 years after this was released, but then I remember how versatile and chameleonic an actor he's always been. My only minor criticism of this film is that a seasoned street thug like Bex would not be quite so pretty. I'd expect at the very least he’d have a scar across the top of his nose, a missing tooth or something. Powerful stuff.

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cj iwakura
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:28 am
- Location: Coral Springs, FL
Re: Movies you've just watched
I'm a big fan of Tarantino's films, the only one I never got into being Jackie Brown. Also always liked watching how enthusiastic and committed he is on set, like he's going to make the best movie ever and he knows it.
On the flip side, he's lately had delusions of being an author, and he's just not that good at it. He's a great director and screenwriter and should stick to it.
Also, The Long Good Friday's OST is banging. It's like he wanted to make a giallo score and didn't get the memo that it was a crime drama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGRM4gaPZrg
On the flip side, he's lately had delusions of being an author, and he's just not that good at it. He's a great director and screenwriter and should stick to it.
Also, The Long Good Friday's OST is banging. It's like he wanted to make a giallo score and didn't get the memo that it was a crime drama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGRM4gaPZrg

heli wrote:Why is milestone director in prison ?, are his game to difficult ?
Re: Movies you've just watched
Oh god, yeah. This has been going round in my head since the film finished. Definitely has a giallo vibe!cj iwakura wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 12:43 pm Also, The Long Good Friday's OST is banging. It's like he wanted to make a giallo score and didn't get the memo that it was a crime drama.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGRM4gaPZrg
The other thing that really sticks in my head is Shand's up-close, evolving expressions as the car drives off at the end and he's trying to get to grips with his fate (and knows he's fucked).
Edit: These are the comparable tracks I was talking about. I mean, they're not that similar side-by-side, but I can hear some possible influence:
The Long Good Friday (criminal stuff going down):
https://youtu.be/H9sjOuBieTk?si=k5DtHWdoWpYjCpz2&t=50s
A Fish Called Wanda (bank robbery scene):
https://youtu.be/nKb1JcO-Bh0?si=REN0URtxGki5VTLc&t=16s
Re: Movies you've just watched
That's great. It sounds like they enlisted the BBC Radiophonic Workshop's assistance or something. I can almost hear Delia Derbyshire constructing the opening bits.cj iwakura wrote: ↑Sun May 18, 2025 12:43 pm Also, The Long Good Friday's OST is banging. It's like he wanted to make a giallo score and didn't get the memo that it was a crime drama.
I saw that film long ago when I was delving into Hoskins work, but I've never really explored John Mackenzie very much. It looks like he had a pretty interesting career. At least his early stuff.