HDMI Mod Direct Output With Light Guns

[r757chan]

My setup currently has everything 15khz outputting RGBs and obviously this works fine with my light guns. Some of my consoles also have HDMI mods and those function with dual output, analog going to the CRT. I would like to transition every console I have with an HDMI mod to using HDMI matrix switchers rather than BNC/SCART with my Crosspoint and then converting that digital signal to analog as the last step before the CRT.

Is there any device (GBS Control?) that can do this conversion in a way the maintains light gun compatibility? It seems like most people who have tried this unsuccessfully have been using upscaled 480p from their HDMI mods and then downscaling back down to 240p/480i. I'm wondering if the direct output that is now a more common feature might make this possible. Currently I have the NES Zapper and the PS1 and PS2 GunCons.

[Josh128]

It will probably work for the NES as long as you have sub 8ms of total latency in the display chain, but forget about the GunCons. Even with fastest mode, trying it with an RT5X in its fastest mode and lagless HDMI to VGA transcoder into a VGA monitor mostly doesnt work.

[jd213]

Is this about the PixelFX Retro GEM? Haven't been paying much attention to it, but looks like 240p/480i output was only recently added. Did the older PixelFX mods support it? I imagine someone on their Discord could tell you if lightgun compatibility is retained.

[Konsolkongen]

It is possible to use the Sinden Lightgun on a PS2 by using a Raspberry Pi 4 and an Arduino Uno:
https://www.sindenwiki.org/wiki/OG_Console_Setup_Guide

The PixelFX Retro GEM HDMI mod for PS2 supports the boarders needed for the Sinden gun to work.

No personal experience with that, but I am tempted to get a gun soon, an I hope many more consoles will be supported by the Sinden eventually

[r757chan]

It will probably work for the NES as long as you have sub 8ms of total latency in the display chain, but forget about the GunCons. Even with fastest mode, trying it with an RT5X in its fastest mode and lagless HDMI to VGA transcoder into a VGA monitor mostly doesnt work.

My understanding is that the RetroTINK-5X has a few ms of lag, right? Not enough to notice but still too much for a GunCon would make sense to me. I wasn't sure if the HDMI direct out would be virtually zero or not. Also wasn't sure if HDMI back to analog without a resolution conversion is also virtually zero. I'd be willing to buy whatever HDMI to analog transcoder might be best to test this, I'm also not sure if they commonly support 15khz.

Is this about the PixelFX Retro GEM? Haven't been paying much attention to it, but looks like 240p/480i output was only recently added. Did the older PixelFX mods support it? I imagine someone on their Discord could tell you if lightgun compatibility is retained.

Yeah. I have the older N64Digital and it has retroactively gained this ability with an update. Speaking of, I don't know if HDMI matrix switchers will be confused by this signal or if they just "dumbly" pass it through. My LG C3 from a few generations ago does NOT understand the signal. I'll look into the Discord, thanks.

It is possible to use the Sinden Lightgun on a PS2 by using a Raspberry Pi 4 and an Arduino Uno:
https://www.sindenwiki.org/wiki/OG_Console_Setup_Guide

The PixelFX Retro GEM HDMI mod for PS2 supports the boarders needed for the Sinden gun to work.

No personal experience with that, but I am tempted to get a gun soon, an I hope many more consoles will be supported by the Sinden eventually

I'm open to trying to get this to work on my main display as well but separately I'm trying to see if native support on the CRT with HDMI out is even theoretically possible.

[Syntax]

Works for MiSTer

https://www.reddit.com/r/MiSTerFPGA/com ... ect_video/

[r757chan]

I didn't think to look into mister stuff. I don't know if the direct video functionality is the same but some of the verbiage is similar so... maybe? I just ordered an HDMI to VGA converter and a VGA to BNC converter so I'll post the results in a few days. Thanks.

[r757chan]

Oh, right. I forgot that none of my light gun consoles are HDMI modded... I guess I should just go ahead and buy those HDMI mods, but in the mean time if anyone with a Retro GEM PS1 or 2 in the DC/Alexandria area feels like experimenting with this let me know.

[BuckoA51]

I've tested PS1 (both guncon and the other one), PS2 and Dreamcast light guns with the PixelFX HDMI mods and they all worked perfectly when set to pass through mode.

I also tried the XboxHD/Stellar and it did work though I couldn't get Silent Scope working (apparently that is extremely difficult to get working anyway with a light gun and requries the brightness cranked right up). Dustin has since added a direct mode to the XboxHD too, so given it worked pretty well before I'd have no hesitation to believe it works just as well or even possibly better now.

The DAC I used was a HD Fury 2.

[Josh128]

It will probably work for the NES as long as you have sub 8ms of total latency in the display chain, but forget about the GunCons. Even with fastest mode, trying it with an RT5X in its fastest mode and lagless HDMI to VGA transcoder into a VGA monitor mostly doesnt work.

My understanding is that the RetroTINK-5X has a few ms of lag, right? Not enough to notice but still too much for a GunCon would make sense to me. I wasn't sure if the HDMI direct out would be virtually zero or not. Also wasn't sure if HDMI back to analog without a resolution conversion is also virtually zero. I'd be willing to buy whatever HDMI to analog transcoder might be best to test this, I'm also not sure if they commonly support 15khz.


I'm open to trying to get this to work on my main display as well but separately I'm trying to see if native support on the CRT with HDMI out is even theoretically possible.

The RT5X framelock mode output to a Portta HDMI to YPrPb DAC registers 2.5 to 3.5 ms display lag at the top left of a zero lag CRT, such as a VGA monitor. This is plenty good for perfect NES lightgun perf. It marginal for PS2 Guncon 2-- I've had it working on a 17" VGA CRT and have a raw video of it on Youtube, but it doesnt always work, I tried it at a later date and had strange issues for an unknown reasons. I wouldnt buy that setup just for the sake of PS2+Guncon 2.

[r757chan]

I get a slow (nearly 10 second) vertical rolling screen. I think it's because I am getting RGBHV when I need RGBS. Does this sound right and, if so, does anyone have any experience with a 7041 sync combiner?

https://si87.com/epages/3738123e-8b74-4 ... ducts/7041

No, I'm not going to pay $200, they're cheaper on eBay. I know I can make one but I like the neatness of this. It seems like this will get me c-sync (TTL, which is fine since I've been using an Extron Crosspoint) on the horizontal sync output. It doesn't seem strictly necessary but I'm not sure if my HDMI to VGA converter puts 5v on pin 9, it is powered with 5v over USB so... probably? Am I missing something, does all of this sound right?

[Syntax]

You will find 2 or 3 cheap combine circuits here

https://web.archive.org/web/20240505060 ... /scart.htm

Else id grab one of these if you can find them cheap.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/225693033991

[r757chan]

I went ahead and bought an Extron RGB 192 because they are cheaper than I remember. In the mean time I was able to test this out with a temporary sync combiner and it works with the NES Zapper and the GunCons. I also tested just using c-sync from the analog out and the RGB lines from the HDMI to VGA adapter and it also works with both the NES Zapper and GunCons.

While testing with c-sync straight from analog the n64's HDMI direct out resulted in the screen being shifted to the right by maybe 5% of the screen so I guess there there is SOME lag, but the shift is within the same scanline so it's tiny. Since I don't have an HDMI mod for the PS1 I tested by going through 2 conversions, RGBS to HDMI via the OSSC's pass through mode and then back to analog. This roughly doubles the picture shift but still works with the GunCon. To be clear, this shift only happens when using the pre-adapter sync with the post-adapter RGB and doesn't happen when using a sync combiner. It did not matter if I used pre or post adapter sync on either the TV or the GunCon or whatever combination of the two, it always worked and the calibration would fix the aiming. The very edges of the screen were also fine even with mismatched syncs.

I've tested PS1 (both guncon and the other one), PS2 and Dreamcast light guns with the PixelFX HDMI mods and they all worked perfectly when set to pass through mode.

Out of curiosity how do you grab the sync signal for the GunCons in that setup?

[BuckoA51]

Out of curiosity how do you grab the sync signal for the GunCons in that setup?

I just used the standard Namco AV breakout adapter, the one that plugs into the analouge output and gives a composite output and a pass through for the standard PS1 analogue cable. Obviously I only have the composite attached to the light gun, and nothing connecting to the back of the breakout cable since that's all done on the RetroGEM HDMI now.

[neorichieb1971]

A few of the Namco games that were on PS1 are getting a re-release via GAIME. GAIME were at the Tokyo game show last year and have developed an AI for modern TV's.

The first unit which has not gone up for sale has Time Crisis and Point Blank on it and they are arcade conversions. You can buy an extra gun and a pedal option is available as well.

https://www.timeextension.com/news/2025 ... -light-gun

This is a standalone unit, its not for the PS1.

[vol.2]

This is a standalone unit, its not for the PS1.

So it's basically one of those TV Game type products that has a couple built-in games and plugs into whatever?

[Syntax]

Yeah but what is it using to aim?
There does not seem to be IR keys/boxes anywhere, maybe that main box produces one that covers the room or the guns have advanced cameras inside?
Very interested to see how this all works and feels.

[neorichieb1971]

Yeah but what is it using to aim?
There does not seem to be IR keys/boxes anywhere, maybe that main box produces one that covers the room or the guns have advanced cameras inside?
Very interested to see how this all works and feels.

This is a standalone unit, its not for the PS1.

So it's basically one of those TV Game type products that has a couple built-in games and plugs into whatever?

Yes it has 3 games on it.

It uses AI to detect the type of character on screen. Its not aiming, you are. The AI is coded into the game.

[bobrocks95]

Hmm, can't find any coverage from the March 15th event it was supposedly available at, at least on the English-speaking web. Seems too good to be true, I'd imagine it's pretty laggy if it's doing some sort of AI picture processing each trigger pull...

[neorichieb1971]

Just in case anyone is interested -

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ta ... modern-tvs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1R5H8Zu9gw

June 24 kickstarter goes live.

[neorichieb1971]

Hmm, can't find any coverage from the March 15th event it was supposedly available at, at least on the English-speaking web. Seems too good to be true, I'd imagine it's pretty laggy if it's doing some sort of AI picture processing each trigger pull...

Its licensed from Namco, they wouldn't allow a product to be shoddy with their name on it. This is a kind of evolution of gun game technology you need to think that someone has already overcome all the obstacles and made a near perfect design. I'm buying it no matter how much it costs.