Most Disappointing Shmup Sequels

[Jonpachi]

GameSack had an episode today on Most Disappointing Video Game Sequels, and called out ThunderForce VI on their list.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sK0njeXi-XI&t=1002s

It got me thinking about disappointing shmup sequels in general.

My top pick is pretty obvious, but it's hard to forget the hype leading up to the release of DeathSmiles II and the crushing let-down of the final experience. I often think about an alternate timeline is which Cave hadn't tried for a 3D engine, but had instead doubled-down on the gorgeous hand-drawn world of the game that had been their most profitable to date. DeathSmiles could have been their BIG, company-saving franchise, but instead they made a lackluster sequel and let the whole thing die.

What's your pick for most disappointing shmup sequel?

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Suppose if Cave did a proper second SH-3 powered pcb sequel to DeathSmiles and it did well sales-wise, could they have created a proper third sequel (and they'd, perhaps, still be in the arcade pcb business today)? Somewhere in an alternate universe/timeline, Cave's currently still making dedicated arcade pcbs for the Japanese game centers and arcade pcb hobbyists/gamers with deep monetary pockets to afford them (as usual) -- sadly, it isn't in "our" current timeline, presently that is. So that'd be two stg IPs that Cave would be capitalizing on with both the well-established Donpachi and DeathSmiles series.

As it is, it's awesome to play the SH-3 powered pcb iteration of DeathSmiles as originally intended, especially as it get closer to Halloween season, right?

After Cave's swansong dedicated arcade pcb release of DoDonpachi SaiDaiOuJou in 2012, it's never been the same within the arcade game industry with Cave's obvious absence from it (with the exception of the Cave licensed/approved Exa-Arcadia STG releases nowadays).

The much desired and lusted after DoDonpachi Campaign Version jamma pcb as an Exa-Arcadia stg exclusive seems more likely nowadays -- it's still considered quite a valuable IP to "cash in with" imho. We're still patiently waiting for it whenever that day comes/arrives. So be it.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Steven]

Raiden Nova. It sucks at everything.

[StarLightMoonLight]

Fantasy Zone II, which was a downgrade from the first game in every way imaginable.
Thankfully M2 rectified this, now it's the best game in the franchise

[Jonpachi]

Raiden Nova. It sucks at everything.

OOF! This is gonna be a tough one to beat. This might be the worst of all time.

[pablumatic]

Super Air Zonk: Rockabilly-Paradise is a pretty dull sequel that is worse in every aspect to the original Air Zonk. The only thing it has going for it is physical rarity and bloated aftermarket prices, which makes it even worse.

My overall pick would be ThunderForce VI, though. Its one of my top shooter series and its sad to see it end like that. I even bought a copy knowing it wasn't up to snuff, but I just wanted it anyway due to my love of the Genesis games.

[BEAMLORD]

Had a dyslexia moment for a sec, and thought y'all were hating on Thunderforce IV Sacrilege!!

Haven't played V or VI, so I'll take your word.

[Herr Schatten]

Radirgy Noa. It looks fine if glanced at casually, but it completely lost the brilliant level design and flow that made the first game so special.

[Sturmvogel Prime]

Aero Fighters 3. Its VERY inferior to Aero Fighters 2.

[Daytime Waitress]

Aero Fighters 3. Its VERY inferior to Aero Fighters 2.

Chin up - only a month before we find out if Reunion will set a new nadir!

Spoiler

Spoiler

:c

Spoiler

Despite this post seeming to be cynical af, part of me is definitely happy that at the very least it is a shmup and not a bandwagoning pile of why like Nova.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

My obvious choice is TFVI. I'm sure I could try and find something a bit more obscure if I tried. Maybe Final Star Force works.

Far more interesting for the thread though would be a shmup I personally found disappointing. How about RayCrisis? After storm it just felt like more of the same with a cyber theme, and perhaps more boring levels.

[Steven]

Raiden Nova. It sucks at everything.

OOF! This is gonna be a tough one to beat. This might be the worst of all time.

There is a decent possibility. Lots of people are saying Thunder Force VI, but Raiden Nova is still way worse.

I have a feeling that Sonic Wings Reunion is going to be a serious contender as well. I hope not, but...

[SuperDeadite]

1944

[Jonpachi]

Far more interesting for the thread though would be a shmup I personally found disappointing. How about RayCrisis? After storm it just felt like more of the same with a cyber theme, and perhaps more boring levels.

That was the topic indeed. I can heartily second Raycrisis. Try as I might to get into it, it just lacks the soul of its predecessor

[Steven]

Add Kyuukyoku Tiger II to the pile of shame. Imagine going from top 5 best in the genre to... that.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I often think about an alternate timeline is which Cave hadn't tried for a 3D engine, but had instead doubled-down on the gorgeous hand-drawn world of the game that had been their most profitable to date. DeathSmiles could have been their BIG, company-saving franchise, but instead they made a lackluster sequel and let the whole thing die.

To be fair, they hadn't done 2D games in a long time. Not hand-drawn sprites anyways; their games had, for a long time, been using 3D assets that were then used to generate prerendered sprites with animation. There were still of course assets that were drawn sprites, but a lot of the art including enemies is obviously prerendered 3D artwork. So it's not unusual for them to try their hand at just making an actual 3D game.

The game itself really wasn't that bad. I think part of the problem was it wasn't as aesthetically appealing when compared to the first game, and they also replaced half the playable cast with some far weirder characters which couldn't have helped the arcade appeal (Follet and Rosa are playable on the console version mode though).

[CreditFeeder]

Gunbird 2, they did away with Yuan Nang

[Jonpachi]

I often think about an alternate timeline is which Cave hadn't tried for a 3D engine, but had instead doubled-down on the gorgeous hand-drawn world of the game that had been their most profitable to date. DeathSmiles could have been their BIG, company-saving franchise, but instead they made a lackluster sequel and let the whole thing die.

To be fair, they hadn't done 2D games in a long time. Not hand-drawn sprites anyways; their games had, for a long time, been using 3D assets that were then used to generate prerendered sprites with animation. There were still of course assets that were drawn sprites, but a lot of the art including enemies is obviously prerendered 3D artwork. So it's not unusual for them to try their hand at just making an actual 3D game.

The game itself really wasn't that bad. I think part of the problem was it wasn't as aesthetically appealing when compared to the first game, and they also replaced half the playable cast with some far weirder characters which couldn't have helped the arcade appeal (Follet and Rosa are playable on the console version mode though).

Very good point on the pre-rendered vs hand-drawn note. It is much more aesthetics and cast than anything really. I don't hate DS II, and I still break it out every now and again, but even with the wash of time the "Gen 1 Dreamcast game" quality polygon work hurts my eyes/soul.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It is much more aesthetics and cast than anything really. I don't hate DS II, and I still break it out every now and again, but even with the wash of time the "Gen 1 Dreamcast game" quality polygon work hurts my eyes/soul.

Yeah, I have a feeling the polygon work is low res so they can minimize their hardware costs. Low poly can be good but it can also very easily fall into an uncanny valley territory, especially when it's not mechs and planes but actual anime characters.

It's just not as appealing as the 2D using prerendered 3D style they'd managed to perfect. There's some assets at times I think look a bit muddy due to overuse of greys and browns, namely I find a lot of the assets in DaiOuJou and Espgaluda look washed out and dull, but I thought by Mushi and Ketsui they'd used that style really well, with Mushi 2, Ketsui, Galuda 2, and DS1 all showcasing great use of 3D models prerendered to spritework with better use of saturated, bright colours to make elements pop.

I do still miss all the hand drawn pixel artwork in stuff like Esp.Ra.De, Dangun, DP, and DDP. Ah well.

[Koa Zo]

Memories are foggy on this one: Millipede.
Finding out that there was a follow-up to Centipede started a hunt to find a cabinet out in the wild. It was a thing of legends - you might hear about it but never actually see it.
I can't remember first playing it but the impression that comes to mind now is "what happened? this isn't fun"
Much later it became clear why Millipede cabinets were so hard to find - it didn't make money. Put the original next to the sequel, where is your quarter going? ...into the first game.

Sad to see Thunder Force VI still being shit on. I find it to be a very enjoyable game. Excellent accessibility to welcome new players into the series or for someone just wanting a casual playthrough, as well as varied difficulty options and ships for players who find default settings too easy.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Memories are foggy on this one: Millipede.
Finding out that there was a follow-up to Centipede started a hunt to find a cabinet out in the wild. It was a thing of legends - you might hear about it but never actually see it.
I can't remember first playing it but the impression that comes to mind now is "what happened? this isn't fun"
Much later it became clear why Millipede cabinets were so hard to find - it didn't make money. Put the original next to the sequel, where is your quarter going? ...into the first game.

Sad to see Thunder Force VI still being shit on. I find it to be a very enjoyable game. Excellent accessibility to welcome new players into the series or for someone just wanting a casual playthrough, as well as varied difficulty options and ships for players who find default settings too easy.

The Atari upright cab of Millipede released back in 1982 was easily found at the local arcades of California during that particular point in time -- I recall that if you timed a well placed shot with the DDT canister on-screen, a cloud could easily take out a millipede and some other small fry insects as well. Given that the Atari headquarters was based out of Sunnyvale, CA, finding such a Millipede cab were "a dime a dozen" during early 1980s arcade game craze/fad. Of course in real-life, DDT was banned by the EPA since it was considered toxic to the environment & people dispensing it

Heck, you could easily find a Millipede cab in the California-based Chuckie E. Cheese's Pizza Time Theater pizza/arcade joints back in 1982-1988. It was founded by Nolan Bushnell back in 1976 (same guy whom founded Atari Inc. as well back in 1972) with the original location in the Frontier Town shopping center in San Jose, CA, just right across the street from the world-famous Winchester Mystery Mansion. The former original CEC location was the site that the 1999 California Extreme classic arcade game & pinball show was held at -- it was unbelievably freaking huge inside!

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[asdsdf1]

Unfinished Dream of All Living Ghost

[Creamy Goodness]

I give Deathsmiles 2 a pass. The graphics are ugly as sin, but the gameplay is at least on par if not arguably more fun than the first game. At least the X version is.

My pick would be SDOJ. I will admit I haven't played it a whole lot, but not a fan of the HD graphics and there is just something about the gameplay that does not feel as good as DOJ. Can't put my finger on what it is, it's just not... there.

[XoPachi]

R-Type Final 2 for me but I also didn't really like Final 1 in the first place.
Just very slow paced. Very ugly. Too much unlocking (now with a CRAFTING system, oh fucking BOY!). Ran pretty bad with weirdly awful load times making dying an utter pain in the ass. And I don't care for this epic, melodramatic tone R-Type's had for the last 20 years between Final and Command. It's not at all audibly memorable for me.

Over all just kind of a slog of a game. Obviously there's WAY worse games in the genre, but most of those are one off originals and there's an expectation for me with a name like R-Type.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I give Deathsmiles 2 a pass. The graphics are ugly as sin, but the gameplay is at least on par if not arguably more fun than the first game. At least the X version is.

My pick would be SDOJ. I will admit I haven't played it a whole lot, but not a fan of the HD graphics and there is just something about the gameplay that does not feel as good as DOJ. Can't put my finger on what it is, it's just not... there.

Yes, the Xbox 360 port of DDP-SDOJ is running at 640 x 480p whereas with the original iteration that is the SH-3 powered jamma pcb of DDP-SDOJ, it's running at 320 x 240p resolution -- big difference indeed. Now if Cave followed up with a DDP-SDOJ "Black Label" variant jamma pcb release, then that'd be definitely something else -- but sadly, that wasn't the case with DDP-SDOJ pcbs back in 2012.

The world that DDP-SDOJ takes place in is best described as a futuristic "cyber-punk" revisionist asetethical take, if you will, complete with A.I. infused androids, neon colored hologram infused city-scapes and the like -- quite a dramatic departure from the world that DDP-DOJ resides in with it's post-industrial look mixed with a bit of a futuristic stylized look with all the military-based fightercrafts and end-stage bosses depicted through out the entire game.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Koa Zo]

The Atari upright cab of Millipede released back in 1982 was easily found at the local arcades of California during that particular point in time -- I recall that if you timed a well placed shot with the DDT canister on-screen, a cloud could easily take out a millipede and some other small fry insects as well. Given that the Atari headquarters was based out of Sunnyvale, CA, finding such a Millipede cab were "a dime a dozen" during early 1980s arcade game craze/fad. Of course in real-life, DDT was banned by the EPA since it was considered toxic to the environment & people dispensing it

Heck, you could easily find a Millipede cab in the California-based Chuckie E. Cheese's Pizza Time Theater pizza/arcade joints back in 1982-1988. It was founded by Nolan Bushnell back in 1976 (same guy whom founded Atari Inc. as well back in 1972) with the original location in the Frontier Town shopping center in San Jose, CA, just right across the street from the world-famous Winchester Mystery Mansion. The former original CEC location was the site that the 1999 California Extreme classic arcade game & pinball show was held at -- it was unbelievably freaking huge inside!

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Ah! yes yes, Charles Entertainment Cheese was probably where I first played Millipede. In the later years of our local Chuck E Cheese, when the franchise was nearly defunct, Friday nights were $4.99 all you can eat and drink and play. Pizza buffet, bottomless sodas, and all games on free play or loaded with credits. I don't remember a Millipede cab being there in that era (late 80s). Even with unlimited credits I wouldn't have much prolonged interest in playing Millipede. It just throws too much at the player. They went overboard on the difficulty. Blasteroids was another Atari shmup sequel which seems designed to inhale quarters.
As you remember the DDT canister and resulting billowing cloud would wipe out all bugs in proximity. This was the big "gimmick" as it were. Everybody wanted to hit that canister and take out a cluster of bugs - but real quick you'd find yourself blindsided by one of the new enemies zipping down diagonal across the screen. You had the bees and the fleas in addition to more spiders, and of course the earwig in place of the scorpion for big points with its recycled fanfare jingle SFX. That DDT canister was pretty unique afaik for the time - an environmental target that explodes when shot and can take out multiple enemies in its proximity. Is that a first for a shoot'em up?

Millipede had a lot of buzz about it. A follow-up to such a masterpiece as Centipede warranted high expectations. It was a game we were always on the lookout for, and the rare chance to play one was always short-lived as that credit was over real quick. You'd keep wanting to go back to it hoping to crack it, eventually realizing it aint workin'. Millipede added more of everything and introduced the DDT bomb and that janky stuttering scrolling of the mushrooms, some recycled SFX and some new ones. It was more and faster, but it just wasn't fun.
For whatever reason, that was the game that came to mind when I considered this topic. Hadn't thought about it or played it in ages. Gave it a quick internet search and find that Millipede was the 4th highest earning arcade game in 1983, it also was on the cusp of the videogame market crash. Sequels like Millipede and Blasteroids may have been harbingers of that crash, so much hype to ride on yet ultimately leaving players disappointed, unable to recreate and deliver on the original's magic.

[PerishedFraud ឵឵]

Sad to see Thunder Force VI still being shit on. I find it to be a very enjoyable game. Excellent accessibility to welcome new players into the series or for someone just wanting a casual playthrough, as well as varied difficulty options and ships for players who find default settings too easy.

You shouldn't mistake my post for this. It's an okay game. It's only disappointing once you compare it to other thunder force titles (admittedly 3 and 5 do most of the mogging here). It's just that TF is so iconic that a game like vi takes a bit of acceptance the first time you see it. I guess if you play it first it'll be fine

[Sumez]

Gunbird 2, they did away with Yuan Nang

xxx1993 are you finally back?

[Abadd]

Silpheed The Lost Planet. I saw it in stores and thought "treasure developed this? A sequel to my favorite Sega CD shooter? Working Designs worked on this? (I was still a WD fanboy back then)"

And it proceeded to be a snoozefest. Gone were the dynamic and cinematic CG movie backgrounds that made Silpheed stand out. The OST left a lot to be desired as well.

[Jonpachi]

Silpheed The Lost Planet. I saw it in stores and thought "treasure developed this? A sequel to my favorite Sega CD shooter? Working Designs worked on this? (I was still a WD fanboy back then)"

And it proceeded to be a snoozefest. Gone were the dynamic and cinematic CG movie backgrounds that made Silpheed stand out. The OST left a lot to be desired as well.

Yes! Day 1 purchase for my PS2… quickly traded it in for store credit.