Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[1KMS]

I am all ears about how people would classify Psychic 5

A Bomb-Jack-like? I'd say Mighty Bomb Jack was the most similar precedent.

[Randorama]

I am all ears about how people would classify Psychic 5

A Bomb-Jack-like? I'd say Mighty Bomb Jack was the most similar precedent.

Ah, prototype-like label? It sounds good, but I guess that young people who do not know Bomb Jack might remain clueless. Well, Psychic 5 is "only" 38 years old, after all (OK, I now about Eternal, but it is remake). Anyway, see you in roughly a week's time.

[Sumez]

Mighty Bomb Jack is absolutely nothing like Bomb Jack though. Calling Psychic 5 "bomb jack-like" is misleading, if nothing else because everyone knows the original Bomb Jack, and I'm not sure anyone ever played Mighty I barely touched it myself, isn't it a famously shitty game?

Anyway to me Psychic 5 feels like a pretty traditional old-school scrolling arcade platformer. It doesn't feel wildly different to me from things like New Zealand Story, Wardner, Black Tiger, Rainbow Islands, etc.
Of course it has its own unique quirks that makes it really fun. But it's primarily get through the stage and beat the boss.

[Randorama]

Tut tut, it is all about beating Satan the Devil, so it is wildly different from just everything else except The Ninja Kids! Hardcore gaming reports that the NMK designers were originally from Tecmo and worked on Bomb Jack. I can see the "floating jump" similarity, indeed.

...Stupid jokes aside, I was having a tip-of-the-tongue effect regarding "multi-directional scrolling". Too much work is giving me headaches when it comes to writing about the hardc...the serious gaming stuff. Has anyone played the Eternal remake, by the way?

[Sumez]

BBH pretty much damned the Psychic 5 port/remake when he played it on launch.

Apparently the hit detection is so far off it just changes the game entirely. I didn't even want to try it after that.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Hardcore gaming reports that the NMK designers were originally from Tecmo and worked on Bomb Jack.

Nihon Maicom Kaihatsu (NMK) is a relatively unknown developer that produced mostly semi-obscure titles, such as Arkista’s Ring and Ninja Crusaders on the NES, and the Rolan’s Curse games for Game Boy.

Not sure that's the best way to introduce NMK or Psychic 5, but anyway, seems that Yukio Kotoyori was't involved in the game's development, as per Moby Games' credits page.

[Randorama]

Sumez: ouch! My desire to try it out was non-existent but now I will pretend it doesn’t exist.

Bassa-Bassa: heavens no, I will definitely follow a different approach.

[1KMS]

HG101 is an abysmal source for arcade game criticism, but Kurt Kalata has some archivist cred. Moby Game's page on NMK mentions the Tecmo/Bomb Jack connection. Regardless, I wasn't referring to staff crossover, but the highly maneuverable jumping/floating, pop-in enemy spawning, and invincibility attack.

Incidentally, is Bomb Jack the best arcade game of 1984? Top 5 at least. I always think of it and Irem's Lode Runner port as holding up exceptionally well.

[EDIT] Almost forgot Spartan X is a contender.
[OMAKE] BBH-Ou's Psychic 5 Eternal: The Judgement

[Sumez]

Incidentally, is Bomb Jack the best arcade game of 1984? Top 5 at least. I always think of it and Irem's Lode Runner port as holding up exceptionally well.

What would the competition be? Tapper and Flicky probably take the cake for me, but I also really never clicked with Bomb Jack. People tend to love that game a lot, but I can't really grasp it.
Other contenders I could think of would be Time Pilot 84, Circus Charlie, Gaplus, and Son Son.

'84 doesn't really come across like a strong arcade year for me compared to how crazy things started to take off in 85 and 86.

EDIT: Oh, Bank Panic is also 1984. I love Bank Panic

[Bassa-Bassa]

Likely Bomb Jack was the first cab I spent some money regularly. Loved Road Fighter as well. And Bank Panic too.

Pac-Land and Ninja-kun were 1984 as well - highly influential and well-regarded, you know. Many would mention Tower of Druaga, Chinese Hero and Taisen Karate Dou/Karate Champ. Wiz is from January, 1985, if that counts. It has some problems, but did many firsts as well and I had some fun only a few years ago with it.

HG101 is an abysmal source for arcade game criticism, but Kurt Kalata has some archivist cred. Moby Game's page on NMK mentions the Tecmo/Bomb Jack connection.

I wonder if that really goes any further than Yukio Kotoyori (and Shinichi Sakamoto, for Psychic 5's sound design). Japanese Wikipedia states that NMK's foundation was him together with Tamio Nakazato from Universal and Capcom and Yousuke Maki from Sega and Capcom, which fits with Kaz Ayabe's posts on Twitter. Anyway, yeah, HG101 just picked that from Moby Games to add some color, otherwise you don't introduce the company like that if you really know them, do you? I'd love to know which are those archivist credentials of Kalata, in order to see if I can change my mind a little bit at least about him. A friend of mine I basically always use as my source for this stuff says his only merits were knowing how to browse and translate the Japanese internet when nobody else did, but that he had to correct his articles once and again on his forum till he got bored, as his actual knowledge and understanding of the games and the industry was null.

[Sumez]

The ability to get information from Japanese sources, *and* having your content peer reviewed before it gets published are both aspects that have some merit, and definitely beats a lot of stuff out there.

[1KMS]

I haven't checked HG101 in at least 10 years, since I don't need commentary on action game design from JRPG and point-and-click fans, but I recalled that they got some decent interviews from old devs way before it was common for them to be active on Twitter.

Masato Katou (Ninja Ryuukenden FC) by Sam Derboo
Masami Shimotsuma & Takashi Oda (Splatterhouse) by Rob Strangman
Ken Lobb (R2RKMF Colonel, Gaijin Division) by ReyVGM

Those Splatterhouse ones weren't even HG101, and are only a few years old. Was I confusing Kurt Kalata for Rob Strangman this whole time?

I also really never clicked with Bomb Jack. People tend to love that game a lot, but I can't really grasp it.

I think the concept of a more free-form maze game where enemies act as the variable boundaries of the maze was really clever for 1984. It's sort of similar to how variable projectiles replaced static terrain in STGs a decade later. Not as well thought out, but impressive for an early iteration of the concept.

Besides what you and Bassa mentioned, I'd add Spartan X as a contender for best of 1984. I consider it the foundational side-view action game. Of course, Akumajou Dracula would take its greatness and build upon it a few years later, but a lot of devs still botched the fundamentals Irem laid down, including Irem when they made Vigilante. Where's the high/low attack/dodge variation in that game?

Even much later, embarrassingly often, ducking wasn't an action with requisite enemy design to compel it, but just an animation that happened when you pressed down on the d-pad. See Dave Perry's 90s oeuvre.

[Stevens]

Besides what you and Bassa mentioned, I'd add Spartan X as a contender for best of 1984. I consider it the foundational side-view action game. Of course, Akumajou Dracula would take its greatness and build upon it a few years later, but a lot of devs still botched the fundamentals, including Irem when they made Vigilante. Where's the high/low attack/dodge variation in that game?

Even much later, embarrassingly often, ducking wasn't an action with requisite enemy design to compel it, but just an animation that happened when you pressed down on the d-pad. See Dave Perry's 90s oeuvre.

Spartan is my best of 84'. Still play it for a few weeks once a year or so.

Is it the first game with distinct bosses that required different strategies? Sure you can jump kick/sweep bosses 1 and 3, but 2, 4, and Mr. X all have their own trick. Especially 4 - bless the walk out trick.

Vigilante had a lot going for it. Great graphics, sound, and a pretty good ost.

I feel like the might have run out of money though. Palette swapped boss for stage 3 and 4 and wonky as fuck hit boxes on the bosses. Even when you know what to do hitting the bosses never feels satisfying out side of stage 1's trip, kick, and kick in the nuts/punch in the face.

They also have way too much health and beating them is nothing more then doing one move over and over. Did I mention the way too much health thing?

To answer the high low question - on stage 5 the regular mooks jump onto the girders and have to be swept off.

All this said I rather like Vigilante in limited doses.

Anyways I picked up Kill The Crows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoDe2SZ ... el=5minlab

A few years back I posted a review for a game called Akane here: viewtopic.php?p=1433661&hilit=akane#p1433661

Akane is awesome.

Kill The Crows takes that formula and makes gunplay the focus. Instead of a cyberpunk/synth showdown with swords the setting is the old west. The shooting is incredibly satisfying. Masterfully made single screen arena of carnage.

Like Akane - $5. Absolutely worth it.

[velo]

Incidentally, is Bomb Jack the best arcade game of 1984? Top 5 at least. I always think of it and Irem's Lode Runner port as holding up exceptionally well.

What would the competition be? Tapper and Flicky probably take the cake for me, but I also really never clicked with Bomb Jack. People tend to love that game a lot, but I can't really grasp it.
Other contenders I could think of would be Time Pilot 84, Circus Charlie, Gaplus, and Son Son.

'84 doesn't really come across like a strong arcade year for me compared to how crazy things started to take off in 85 and 86.

EDIT: Oh, Bank Panic is also 1984. I love Bank Panic

Nobody's going to nominate 1942? Foundational game that still holds up against all the games that borrowed from it, in my book.

[Sumez]

Foundational, but I'd never go back and play it. I find 1943 a lot more enjoyable

[Stevens]

Foundational, but I'd never go back and play it. I find 1943 a lot more enjoyable

100% agree with this, there is almost no reason at all to play 42 over 43. 42 is practically a demo in comparison.

[Randorama]

A little bit of shameless self-promotion: Real life of the TM variety has kicked in, so this week I will only move edit and post material in the "reviews" section and upload my Rolling Thunder 2 squib at most by (my) Sunday night. I will also probably slow down to two squibs per week, aside the long-form, pointless ran...ehrm, theoretical squibs on a long-term schedule. The link is really a reminder to myself to get stuff done. Bloody Italians, they can't do jack shit if they are not under pressure

"Please understand" (manga-style request).

EDIT: shameless self-promotion regarding 1943: The Battle of Midway, with a longer version here.

[velo]

Foundational, but I'd never go back and play it. I find 1943 a lot more enjoyable

100% agree with this, there is almost no reason at all to play 42 over 43. 42 is practically a demo in comparison.

I can't deny anyone their honest opinion... but man you guys are killing me. For me, they got it right the first time. The mechanics introduced in the early sequels don't quite click with me, and the later games are a whole different animal, too different to compare.

[Sumez]

I can't deny anyone their honest opinion... but man you guys are killing me. For me, they got it right the first time. The mechanics introduced in the early sequels don't quite click with me, and the later games are a whole different animal, too different to compare.

Later sequels sure, different games entirely. But 1943 and 42 are similar enough. What mechanics were introduced in 1943 that makes you like it less than '42? Maybe you're thinking of the Kai version? Which is kind of rare to come across anyway.

Sure I'm not the best authority on these games, as I haven't dedicated myself too much to them. But I did use to spend quite a few credits on 1943 in the arcade back when hanging out with a guy who'd consistenly 1CC the game at a +3 mil score(!), so I eventually learned to appreciate it - and at the same time figured out why the most die-hard fans don't really regard Kai as an improvement at all.
1942 to me is just a very similar game, that feels waaaaay too drawn out for what it is, still rooted in the early arcade philosophy of endless repetition (which I appreciate more in most other genres). And 1943 is already drawn out as it is

But I'm super open to hear what makes you appreciate 1942 more. I'm not opposed to going back with a fresh perspective.

[1KMS]

1942 must've been one of the first STGs with a definite ending, right? It's hard to give it credit when Gradius came out around 2 months later [EDIT: 5 actually], plus that grating BGM. I was hoping the BGM would've been expanded for the Capcom Generations release, but they didn't bother. Admittedly, I haven't spent much time with it.

Ninja Gaiden: Ragebound trailer showing the new character, Kumori.
https://youtu.be/U1X0Ot401Tk

And the equally exciting Bio Menace Remastered trailer, ft. BARRY GILLIS as SNAKE LOGAN.
https://youtu.be/eoz2Al5ekzU

I still need to try out Duke Nukem 1 + 2 Remastered. The originals were automatic 1-star games because of the bad camera and framerate/MSX scrolling, so I'm curious how much widescreen + 60 FPS can improve the experience.

[NYN]

I say Ragebound looks still fun. The cycle action gave me a smile. Obvious Vania rpg pixel detail relation. Done right, this could provide fun for me the inspiration never came close to. Oh! sweet Summer release.

[qmish]

Mega Twins aka Chiki Chiki Boys? IIRC, that one is Capcom's (via CPS1), but I think Visco published its excellent MD port. Very fond of this cart, a rock-solid "chibi Strider" with its run n' slash and wall-climbing, and it also has some of the smoothest rainbow hues on the MD. I never did figure out how the coin values work, eventually wrote 'em off as random but that seems a bit too obvious... a great romp, in any case.

I was revisiting legacy of CPS1 lately and some games, including this, sparkle a bit conflicting opinion from me. Firstly, I should say that I indeed liked Willow (another cps1 title which is cinematic movie-based game and somehow mixes various ideas from previous Capcom games) and consider it kinda hidden gem (as I either didn't know of it much before and/or didn't pay attention, so it was big surprise for me when I finally did) meanwhile I'm a bit lukewarm about Forgotten Worlds (even though it has plenty of super cool stuff, especially being the first game on system). Just sayin' it cause perhaps for many it could be opposite (e.g. they love FW but more strict with W).

Anyway, back to CCB! I enjoy many things about Mega Twins, including overall design, cuteness, vibes, colours etc. etc. It's indeed adorable and what not. However, currently I come to conclusion that it won't get into list of my fav titles from CPS boards sadly. It doesn't mean that I haven't enjoyed it, it's just it kinda lacks "the thing" for me. Idk. Like, I feel that having just one normal attack (+ usable bomb/magic/whatever) gets a bit boring. And then, perhaps the worst thing ever to say, but overall game feels a bit like Euro/Amiga thingie? I mean... not just lifebar presence, but how it all works. Basically every clear on YT i've seen was using autofire (which is understandable as it gets very tiring to mash that attack all the time, however I wonder how it was done in older days... any vhs footages anyone?), and boss encounters are set up in a way you almost always take some damage (the only no damage run I've found was TAS-used, so I come to conclusion game is designed the way to take damage, which is kinda unusual from Japanese school of arcades) and in most clears it looks pretty abusive like "stay in this spot to hit" and overall not that much "interesting"... On a bright side, there are cool things with scoring though, as I've seen golden chests and some other cool secrets I didn't discover when trying/playing game myself.

So in the end, it's super cute and cool (and super funny! those tree faces, those mermaids, so much joy! also cool details like Sun changing mood after beating the boss) and indeed a good example of how varied Capcom output was during those days, but also somehow for me (at least) it feels just a bit lacking/undercooked to really love it. On the other hand, perhaps it would be a total blast as coop game, huh.

Ah, and BIL, funny how you compared it slightly to Spinmaster which also a bit not my cup of tea (but im still impressed by those sands on stage 2).

Yeah, well, just wanted to discuss it a bit (if allowed).



p.s.

About 194x... I like 1941, even if because of that rotating wall scratch crazy attack!

[BIL]

Yeah, well, just wanted to discuss it a bit (if allowed).

Absolutely! Chiki Chiki and Spin Master are great examples of cute yet rampantly hardcore slashing / shooting. I'd almost file Wanpaku Graffiti in the same subgenre, although its pace isn't quite as tight.

[Herr Schatten]

Speaking of Chiki Chiki Boys, does anyone happen to know if there's some staff overlap with Westone?

The graphical style of CCB resembles that of MD Wonderboy V / Monster World III so much, they could be (Mega) twins. In fact, when I first saw screenshots of CCB, I thought it was a new Wonderboy game, and I was very surprised that it was from Capcom and had radically different gameplay.

[BrianC]

Speaking of Chiki Chiki Boys, does anyone happen to know if there's some staff overlap with Westone?

As far as I can tell, no. Most of the staff worked on other Capcom games. One of the directors was the founder of Flagship, Yoshiki Okamoto.

[Vanguard]

Any of you play Rabi Ribi? I'm revisiting it and my opinion on it keeps getting better. I think it's the best metroidvania. I love how almost totally nonlinear it is, how the upgrades you find can find make a huge difference in both your mobility and your fighting power, but that it's also designed to be beatable in a 0% run. The boss fights are super good all throughout.

It is about cute anime girls beating each other up for arbitrary reasons and then becoming friends after, which won't be to the tastes of some task force members.

[Sumez]

The overworld in Rabi Ribi feels extremely repetitive and pointless, with no real sense of exploration, achievement, or threat. It's one of those games where I don't understand why it needed to be a metroidvania at all. The story, characters, dialogue etc. is very cringeworthy, but that's to be expected from the box art.
The game is really entirely about the boss fights and nothing else. I also had some issues with those, but I can't remember the exact nature of them, so despite that I think I did find them quite enjoyable.

Probably would have been a better game as just a boss rush.

[Vanguard]

The overworld in Rabi Ribi feels extremely repetitive and pointless, with no real sense of exploration, achievement, or threat. It's one of those games where I don't understand why it needed to be a metroidvania at all. The story, characters, dialogue etc. is very cringeworthy, but that's to be expected from the box art.
The game is really entirely about the boss fights and nothing else. I also had some issues with those, but I can't remember the exact nature of them, so despite that I think I did find them quite enjoyable.

Probably would have been a better game as just a boss rush.

The exploration works a lot better on the highest difficulties. You want to select the alternative scaling option where bosses get stronger based on story progress and bosses defeated, but items do little to nothing for them. Then you want to explore as much of the world as possible, collecting as many upgrades as possible, while fighting as few bosses as possible. Doing it this way you're mostly fighting normal enemies in the first half of the game, while they're still a threat, and then once you're strong enough and have most of the fast travel points unlocked, it becomes almost like a boss rush as you catch up on all those bosses you avoided. There's also both a boss rush late in the story as well as boss rush gameplay modes. The world is immensely rewarding in terms of secrets and powerups, anytime you gain access to a new area I think it's exciting because you're sure to get a few stat ups and there's a good chance of a new ability or two. It's also pretty interesting to navigate the world and fight the bosses with the wildly different power levels and ability sets you can have, some problems turn into entirely different problems depending on your route.

Rabi Ribi seems like it has an intended linear path, but you can go almost anywhere starting from chapter 1. The most important trick to exploring as a low level character is knowing how to do the wall jump technique you start with. Face away from a wall, jump, turn towards the wall, then turn away one more time and jump. You can do a second wall jump by pressing down + jump after your first wall jump. Erina will start fast falling and will bounce off of the next wall she collides with.

The story and dialogue are dumb, I find them largely inoffensive but understand why others would disagree. You can always skip the cutscenes and the map always points to destinations where you can advance the story, you don't miss any gameplay information by skipping.

[Lethe]

I played it for 7 or 8 hours some while ago, spurred by its reputation, and thought it was "okay". I've not felt any compulsion to go back to it.

It's about as incompetent as its peers when comes to being an action game. Lots of overly big rooms to traverse with thoughtless smatterings of enemies whose attacks don't work with the terrain, or who you can simply ignore. No sense of pressure and no resource management besides limiting the tedium of laming things to death. The extent to which the bosses - the main attraction - rely on IGO-UGO shit is the most critical red flag. No you can't have any unfamiliar tension or menace, survive the big choreographed attack pattern for 15 seconds to get your authority-mandated free hits in, repeat 10 times to win. Don't ask questions, just dodge bullet! WHAT ARE NEXT?

The search platformer side I'm more positive on. Even with my limited play I could figure out how to sequence break things via smart use of what I'd picked up. You'd better see value in that, because the game doesn't offer many other reasons to get invested. Again, seems like a half-decent game... but surely something like this getting the praise it does is just an indication of how much minimal-value slop it's surrounded by? In the land of the blind and all that.

I don't know what the highest difficulty settings even do because the game forces me to beat it before it unlocks them.

[Vanguard]

The I go, you go elements are present, though I don't find them as problematic as you do. Bosses generally can't be stunned out of their attacks, but you can and should still damage them while dodging, as much as you safely can. There's more to the offensive side of the game than there may initially appear to be, and you can end fights in considerably fewer "turns" than expected if you use strong attack combos, run an offensive equipment build, and expend resources effectively. In particular, your amulet - essentially the equivalent to a shmup bomb - restores a chunk of your stamina and inflicts a long lasting stun on the enemy. If you're willing to burn your amulet charges offensively rather than save them up for emergencies you can tear huge chunks off of boss life bars in short order.

There's a way to unlock the higher difficulties on a first playthrough. I don't remember what I did but I started on hell and then moved up to bunny extinction after that. I thought the game straight up offered to unlock those two modes for you when choosing a difficulty.