Retro Tink 4K - Problem with 4K video output

[Mr.Ash]

I have been experiencing a problem with the 4K video output of my Retro Tink 4K for some time now.

Time and again, neither my 4K TV nor the HDMI matrix switch recognizes the 4K image output of the RT4K and simply displays nothing. It doesn't matter whether I connect the RT4K via HDMI matrix switch or directly to the HDMI port of the 4K TV. I have the latest firmware 1.5.4, even the experimental FW 1.5.6 does not solve the problem. The 4K TV and Matrix Swith are also on the latest available firmware. The HDMI cables are also brand new 8K HDMI cables.

However, if I force the RT4K to 1080p output via the 1080p button on the remote control, the picture appears immediately. If I then switch back to 4K60, 4K50 or 3840x2160p59.95, again no picture is displayed.

The only thing that helps is to disconnect everything from the power supply, wait a while and then switch everything back on, and suddenly it works. Sometimes it also helps to simply leave the RT4K running for a while, then switch it off and on again, and suddenly it works.

What could be the problem here?

[bobrocks95]

99% of the time this is a power supply issue. Is your power supply 5V and at least 2Amps for the Tink alone?

[SavagePencil]

My cargo cult solution to this same situation has been:

1. Everything is off
2. Turn on Matrix, wait for it to boot
3. Turn on TV, wait for it to boot
4. Turn on RT4K

Out of curiosity, what brand/model matrix are you using?

If you plug the RT4K directly into the TV, does this still happen?

[Mr.Ash]

I wonder if you have read my first post completely. If 1080p doesn't cause problems in any way (as I wrote), then it can't possibly be the PSU or any power-up sequence.

99% of the time this is a power supply issue. Is your power supply 5V and at least 2Amps for the Tink alone?

I can definitely rule it out. I use a power rail which has two separate 5V/2.1A USB-A plugs (exactly for such purposes).

My cargo cult solution to this same situation has been:

1. Everything is off
2. Turn on Matrix, wait for it to boot
3. Turn on TV, wait for it to boot
4. Turn on RT4K

Out of curiosity, what brand/model matrix are you using?

If you plug the RT4K directly into the TV, does this still happen?

I also thought about the switching sequence at first. I have already tried all possible sequences, but the problem persists and occurs sporadically.
It doesn't matter whether the RT4K is connected directly to the 4K TV or the matrix switch, in both cases no 4K video signal from the RT4K is recognized.
The Matix Switch is a 8K HDR HDMI True Matrix 4x2 from the brand Ask Technologies -> http://www.ask-corps.com/page94.html?product_id=450

It doesn't matter whether the RT4K is connected directly to the 4K TV or the matrix switch, in both cases no 4K video signal from the RT4K is recognized.

But as already mentioned several times, the problem only occurs with 4K resolutions, and also when the RT4K and the 4K TV are connected directly via HDMI (8K HDMI cable!).

[bobrocks95]

I wonder if you have read my first post completely. If 1080p doesn't cause problems in any way (as I wrote), then it can't possibly be the PSU or any power-up sequence.

The RT4K uses more power when outputting in 4K resolution. Every single time I have seen this come up in the RetroTink discord (1080p works but 4K doesn't) it's been a power supply issue. Like literally 10+ times I've personally seen this happen.

I can definitely rule it out. I use a power rail which has two separate 5V/2.1A USB-A plugs (exactly for such purposes).

Are you sure both plugs can provide 2.1A when both are in use, or is it 2.1A total between the two, like many power bricks are wired?

Seriously, try another power brick as a sanity test, and try unplugging the other USB device if you have two in your current brick. This sounds exactly like every other power issue people have had.

[Mr.Ash]

Are you sure both plugs can provide 2.1A when both are in use, or is it 2.1A total between the two, like many power bricks are wired?

Seriously, try another power brick as a sanity test, and try unplugging the other USB device if you have two in your current brick. This sounds exactly like every other power issue people have had.

I'm 200% sure since it is written just next to the USB port (5V /2.1A each) and also just the RT4K alone is connected, no other USB device.

And even if so, this doesn't explains why it works most of the time, but sporadically it doesn't. If the USB port would not deliver enough power it would never work.

Anyway, i'll gibe it a try with another PSU, but honestly i doubt that this will change anything.

[Guspaz]

Make sure you try factory default settings. It's possible to get the RT4K to output out-of-spec 4K signals that many TVs and HDMI switches will reject. For example, enabling deep colour on a 4K60 output results in a massive TMDS overclock, and some TVs (like LG OLEDs) are happy with that, and other TVs (along with most HDMI switches) are not.

Note that this does not mean you can't do 4K60 HDR output. Just at 8bpc instead of 10bpc.

[Gara]

And even if so, this doesn't explains why it works most of the time, but sporadically it doesn't. If the USB port would not deliver enough power it would never work.

Anyway, i'll gibe it a try with another PSU, but honestly i doubt that this will change anything.

A device turning on or even having partial functionality does not mean that you're delivering adequate power. Different modes draw different amounts of power. If you're not delivering enough power then some things won't work or you'll get random issues.

[orange808]

+1 on the power supply. Try that first.

[Mr.Ash]

So if it really is due to the PSU (I still have to try it out), then this raises two questions:

1. why is there no reference to the PSU requirement anywhere in the RT4K specification?

2. if these PSU problems are apparently known, why is the RT4K not supplied with a suitable PSU?

It must not be that you have to fiddle around with it like this.

[Fudoh]

5V at 2 amps isn't out of this world. Many USB PSUs and chargers will deliver this without any hiccups.

This said, a lot of USB power supplies tend to drop voltage when they get near their maximum load. So, if the RT4K is indeed pulling near 10 watts and your PSU maxes out at 2.1 amps, then you're getting very close to that maximum and there's a very good chance that your voltage is dropping to something like 4.9 or 4.8 or even lower in those situations.

You can play is safe by using a power supply that just has more spare power, like 3 amps max. Such a power supply would easily hold it's output voltage at a stable 5V while drawing 2 amps.

[bobrocks95]

So if it really is due to the PSU (I still have to try it out), then this raises two questions:

1. why is there no reference to the PSU requirement anywhere in the RT4K specification?

2. if these PSU problems are apparently known, why is the RT4K not supplied with a suitable PSU?

It must not be that you have to fiddle around with it like this.

Both your questions are answered directly on the store page

Due to wide range of international plug types as well as product liability with AC adapters, we are not including a power brick. You may use any USB source supplying at least 5V/2A.

[SquidHominid]

So if it really is due to the PSU (I still have to try it out), then this raises two questions:

1. why is there no reference to the PSU requirement anywhere in the RT4K specification?

2. if these PSU problems are apparently known, why is the RT4K not supplied with a suitable PSU?

It must not be that you have to fiddle around with it like this.

Ah yes, no reference anywhere...

[FBX]

5V at 2 amps isn't out of this world. Many USB PSUs and chargers will deliver this without any hiccups.

This said, a lot of USB power supplies tend to drop voltage when they get near their maximum load. So, if the RT4K is indeed pulling near 10 watts and your PSU maxes out at 2.1 amps, then you're getting very close to that maximum and there's a very good chance that your voltage is dropping to something like 4.9 or 4.8 or even lower in those situations.

You can play is safe by using a power supply that just has more spare power, like 3 amps max. Such a power supply would easily hold it's output voltage at a stable 5V while drawing 2 amps.

I just went with my own Triad combo, where I patched the cord with USB-C:

[Guspaz]

1. why is there no reference to the PSU requirement anywhere in the RT4K specification?

The PSU requirement is printed right above the power input port on the device itself, and on the product page on the RetroTINK site, and on the wiki that serves as the manual. What additional places would you recommend the requirement be published?

[NoAffinity]

I don't know what the device in between is, but my switchers have problems with retrotink output and I have to go direct to tv. Reading through this thread, I went through thoroughly testing individual components in between rt4k and TV, and using multiple power supplies with capacity to spare. My hdmi 7-in 1-out switch and 1-in 5-out distribution amp both do not like the rt4k's output. The switch works fine up to 1080p (it is a 8k/60 switch that works fine with things like xb1 at 4k). The distro amp does not like any rt4k resolution. Default profile at 4k produces no signal, at 1080p and 480p it regularly blips off. Not much help I'm sure, but in my case, I've now resigned to staying connected directly to the TV and use the distribution amp and scart switch with multi out to take the source output signals elsewhere for capture while simultaneously enjoying the rt4k's output.

[NoAffinity]

I don't know what the device HD matrix in between is, but my switchers have problems with retrotink output and I have to go direct to tv. Reading through this thread, I went through thoroughly testing individual components in between rt4k and TV, and using multiple power supplies with capacity to spare. My hdmi 7-in 1-out switch and 1-in 5-out distribution amp both do not like the rt4k's output. The switch works fine up to 1080p (it is a 8k/60 switch that works fine with things like xb1 at 4k). The distro amp does not like any rt4k resolution. Default profile at 4k produces no signal, at 1080p and 480p it regularly blips off. Not much help I'm sure, but in my case, I've now resigned to staying connected directly to the TV and use the distribution amp and scart switch with multi out to take the source output signals elsewhere for capture while simultaneously enjoying the rt4k's output.

[Mr.Ash]

Yes, true, i now found the PSU specs for the RT4K, thanks.

But still, my power rail has two USB-A ports, each suppling 5V @ 2.1A. So i'm a bit above the spec of the RT4K and also i vever had any problems with other devices that ar powered trough this power rail.

And as i mentioned several times by now, the problem occurs sporadically and even then when the RT4K is plugged directly to the TV. In about 9 of 10 cases it works wihout any problems and my TV is showing the 4K Signal of the RT4K correctly and without any drops. Duruing this time it doesn't matte if the RT4K is wired directly to my TV or via the matix switch. But in 1 of 10 cases both my TV and the matrix switch refuse to display the 4K output of the RT4K. And this is wher the fiddle starts, the only thing that helps is to turn everything completly off (disconnectng of any power or USB-C cords), wait a few minutes and the turn back on everything again. An like magic it suddendly works (until the next time).

in the mean time i'm still waiting for a stronger PSU which delivers 5V @ 3A. I cross my fingers.

[Konsolkongen]

I have some APC surge protectors with built in USB power 2.4A. The USB power is complete garbage and I have had several things not working properly when hooked up to them.

Powering stuff off USB sucks!

The Raspberry Pi PSUs are very solid and worth a try.

[bobrocks95]

USB PD sucks in general and is all over the place. Should your power strip work? On paper, absolutely, and the problem is intermittent so it might not be that at all. It's just that it's likely that given how many issues there have been.

I do kind of wish, at the price of the unit, that it came with a universal power supply with some different swappable plug types. A middle ground would be Mike offering a known good one on the store separately.

[SavagePencil]

5V at 2 amps isn't out of this world. Many USB PSUs and chargers will deliver this without any hiccups.

This said, a lot of USB power supplies tend to drop voltage when they get near their maximum load. So, if the RT4K is indeed pulling near 10 watts and your PSU maxes out at 2.1 amps, then you're getting very close to that maximum and there's a very good chance that your voltage is dropping to something like 4.9 or 4.8 or even lower in those situations.

You can play is safe by using a power supply that just has more spare power, like 3 amps max. Such a power supply would easily hold it's output voltage at a stable 5V while drawing 2 amps.

I just went with my own Triad combo, where I patched the cord with USB-C:

Psssst…can you give me a link to that Triad and the barrel-to-USB C adapter?

[Mr.Ash]

The new 100W PSU has arrived -> https://de.aliexpress.com/item/10050052 ... pt=glo2deu

And as suspected right from the start, this does not solve the problem. I would have been very surprised, because the PSU is very rarely responsible for such malfunctions.

I now think it is more likely to be an EDID problem, i.e. the RT4K is outputting EDID information in 4K output mode that is not understood by the TV / matrix switch. But why this occurs sporadically is still a mystery.

[Konsolkongen]

Was that PSU specifically recommended for the RT4K?

[SavagePencil]

I'm getting very reliable results after moving to this charger: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08F28BH7C

(I was previously using an old mobile phone USB adapter which technically met the power requirements, but clearly wasn't starting consistently)

And for future reference, FirebrandX recommends these: https://www.firebrandx.com/triads.html

[bobrocks95]

Hmmm, new PSU but then seeing it's from AliExpress...

If you're convinced it's not a power issue, I'd recommend posting in the RetroTink Discord, they're much faster with responses there.

[Mr.Ash]

Hmmm, new PSU but then seeing it's from AliExpress...

If you're convinced it's not a power issue, I'd recommend posting in the RetroTink Discord, they're much faster with responses there.

I am as convinced of it as I am of my original Power Rail. I have generally had very good experiences with goods from AliExpress (after all, all modern electronics come from China, no matter where you order them), you just have to be a bit careful and use common sense. If an offer sounds too good to be true, there's usually something wrong, whether it's AliExpress or another store.

I think it is more likely that RT4K does not adhere 100% to the respective specifications for signal output, which can lead to compatibility problems.

I had similar problems with the predecessor RT5X and its 480p image output. Some of my devices (including the DVDO VP50, which normally swallows everything) couldn't do anything with this 480p signal, apparently because the 480p image of the RT5X has a significantly higher horizontal resolution than provided by the actual specification. The reasoning behind this at the time was to enable a higher quality with Video Caprure cards, but at the cost of compatibility.

I wouldn't be surprised if a similar game is now being played with the RT4K.

[bobrocks95]

It was for external DAC compatibility, which was the assumed use case for 480p output.

Are you on the latest firmware by the way?

If it's potentially a standards issue you can set up a custom 4K modeline with whatever timings you need, VESA, CVT, CVT-RB, etc.

Guspaz has a timing calculator somewhere that may be helpful.

[Jdurg]

Also make sure that your 4K cable is high quality. When I first got my Retro Tink 4K I would have random drop-outs of video-signal, loss of sound, and various other random drops of signal which made it nearly unusable. I went through a bunch of different power supplies and kept having the same issue.

I finally bought a high quality 8K rated cable and have not had a single problem since. If you have a cable that is damaged or doesn't have enough bandwidth for the signal, the problems you're facing would be symptoms of that.

[system11]

Tagging a reply here as I'm going through the same struggles with switches not liking the RT4K output - I even had considerable issues with 1080P through a switch - the sound would 'pip' or vanish completely, then doing meaningless things like turning HDR on then off again would sometimes make it work for a bit. The TV would repeatedly detect the signal too, this would come and go. I tried multiple power supplies and even 8K rated cables. It works fine directly plugged into the TV.

Has anyone found a matrix switch that reliably works with the RT4K?

[bobrocks95]

Tagging a reply here as I'm going through the same struggles with switches not liking the RT4K output - I even had considerable issues with 1080P through a switch - the sound would 'pip' or vanish completely, then doing meaningless things like turning HDR on then off again would sometimes make it work for a bit. The TV would repeatedly detect the signal too, this would come and go. I tried multiple power supplies and even 8K rated cables. It works fine directly plugged into the TV.

Has anyone found a matrix switch that reliably works with the RT4K?

A lot of people recommend the 16 port TESMart HDMI switch, but it's a bit overkill and I believe the 4K 60Hz version has some issues with HDMI mods/MiSTer's direct or DV1 modes. I have the older 4K 30Hz one and it works great though, other than what seem to be Tink problems (have to restart or swap inputs to handshake sometimes).