The old bomb distribution method of routing

[mycophobia]

anybody still do this? for those who don't know what it is, it basically means you play a credit of a shmup (assuming the usual bomb system) where you dont bomb at all and just jot down where you die. when you game over you do the same process except you bomb at the spots you've jotted down so far. when you run out of bombs to drop you go and find what you think is the easiest bomb spot on your list and cross it off. presumably through this process you eventually 1CC and from there you can go back and refine and get whatever further goals you want. but also through this process you end up thinking a lot more definitely about the events in the game, and thereby irrespective of the exact bomb spots you're noting, you're mentally marking a route out.

i'm giving it a shot with Strikers 1945 II and more or less trying to ignore the complications of random stage order and rank's effect on that for now. moreover i'm only making a note if the place i died was because i was genuinely overwhelmed and not because i just derped into a stray bullet or whatever. also comboing the bomb and the charge attack is pretty powerful against bosses.

uhh. anyway. anybody have any cool thoughts on this

[Jonpachi]

Yep! When I was first getting into shmups, I bought Dodonpachi for the Saturn and thought it was utterly impossible at first. Over time, I made myself a little spreadsheet charting out trouble spots and comparing it to my resources (lives/bombs). I started practicing the game in pretty much the way you described (brute force bombing my way past trouble areas) and soon landed on my first Cave 1CC.

[BIL]

I do something similar, most recently with Thunder Dragon 1 and Macross. Try to learn each stage as a NMNB, then figure out what is and isn't run-realistic from there. As each stage is routed and the full credit comes into view, it becomes easier to know where to allocate resources. Those particular games are fairly extreme cases, in that they're highly generous with bomb spawns and capacity, and their bombs are hella strong atop that; but they're also wickedly unforgiving of overspending, as some later areas are unashamedly bullshit.

Substitute bombs for other resources as applicable; special weapons, shields, suicides in games where that's a thing, etc. Basically I try to go without, then gradually make allowances from there until I've got something viable.

[beer gas canister]

Yes, in a rather informal way. I use bombs as a metric for progress. Once I can clear a level without bombing it means that I'm ready to start practicing the boss

[To Far Away Times]

I practice with save states until I can NMNB one stage at a time, or atleast get pretty close to that, and then plan my bombs for the challenging sections.

I’ll take notes on my phone too, dividing the level into chunks and noting where the trouble spots are and planning out my bomb distribution.

[sumdumgoy]

x

[Lemnear]

I usually try again a few times before using a bomb on the most critical point, I tend not to use them because I'm afraid of learning the game that way, I noticed this both with Striker 1945 II and with Batsugun Special, I don't know how to do other routes, I use bombs in specific moments and I wouldn't know how to do otherwise (1-2 bombs on the 2nd Boss in Batsugun, the rest on the last one and if I play badly, 1 on the fourth boss...or on the last Boss in Strikers 1945 II, all on that and none during the rest of the game).
I'm always afraid of not having enough for when they'll be needed.
As for Strikers 1945 II, the charged attack is very strong but paradoxically I almost never use it, only with a certain order of the initial stages, but especially on the 7th boss...I also tend to require No Miss on all stages except the last boss...

[Some-Mist]

Yes, I’ve gotten all my clears using this method and up until recently would only practice one credit at a time.

I just started using save states for the first time the past few weeks for my ketsui 1-all, and even with save states I still planned out my bomb spots. I’m gonna have to learn those sections way better if I ever intend on getting to the 2nd loop

[mycophobia]

I'm always afraid of not having enough for when they'll be needed.

an integral part of this method, as i understand it at least, is that you expect to run out of resources planning out your bombing route, and that when you do, you go and cross off the easiest bomb spot on your list and save that one for when you need it later. through repetition of this process you'd eventually get a scrubby skin-of-your-teeth clear, presumably.

[mycophobia]

That's an interesting method, I've never tried that. Good idea, OP.

it is a pretty cool idea but i didn't come up with it; there are mentions of it in threads from 20 years ago, which is why i called it "the old bomb distribution method". i was bringing it up cuz we're in an age where there's a wealth of emulation options and ports with practice modes and stuff and i reckon most folks nowadays just grind that stuff, but i really like this kind of systematized approach to routing a game that seems viable even if all you're doing is credits starting from the beginning.

[sumdumgoy]

x

[mycophobia]

it is a pretty cool idea but i didn't come up with it; there are mentions of it in threads from 20 years ago, which is why i called it "the old bomb distribution method". i was bringing it up cuz we're in an age where there's a wealth of emulation options and ports with practice modes and stuff and i reckon most folks nowadays just grind that stuff, but i really like this kind of systematized approach to routing a game that seems viable even if all you're doing is credits starting from the beginning.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing: grinding it out using save states and many of them. I'm guilty of trying to forget I have bombs for scoring reasons, but the joke is I can't even 1CC a shmup, so what am I doing saving up my bombs? I always end up losing my stock when I inevitably blow up!

baby steps! ignore scoring and get the scrubby 1-ALL first by any means necessary, then go back and refine

[sumdumgoy]

x

[Some-Mist]

Ya there’s very little chance I’m gonna no bomb a clear. I’m just not that good so I’ll take a scrub clear in it’s place

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Back in the 1980s and into the 1990s with the American arcade scene, if you wanted to master a certain arcade game, it'd certainly require some money and dedicated time to master it (this was before the advent of the Internet, Mame, save-states, etc). By spending real money, it forced said arcade gamer to master said arcade game with the least amount of credits spent possible -- by rote memorization + "being in the zone" certainly helped if attempting such a 1CC or 2CC affair back in the "Golden Age or Silver Age of Arcades" era.

I did a 1CC affair on an Atari Games upright cab of Klax back in May of 1994 at my local arcade hangout called the "Regency Game Palace" -- it took at least two to two and a half hours to achieve (as there were no breaks nor any time to pause and catch my breath at any given time either). After completing Wave 100, I had scored over 6,000,000+ points and the number 1 spot on the high score screen -- did the arcade manager witness this serious Klax 1CC feat? Actually, no one watched me do this feat and it was considered a personal best at the time.

I did, however, play countless hours on the Tengen NES version of Klax to hone my chops back in 1991-1992 only to learn that there was no set pattern with the colored tiles (as they are "randomly generated on the fly" by the CPU and it's up to the player to formulate a plan to deal with the current colored & wild tiles on hand to take advantage of them to score big points or to warp to the higher waves with a multi-colored "Big X" tile formation).

I wished someone told me that above little aforementioned "insider nugget of information/tidbit" when I was learning the ropes of seriously playing & mastering Klax back in the early 1990s. Sure, I admit that I credit-fed Klax to the absolute point of knowing exactly what to do during certain Waves, especially the dreaded "Fast Waves" that would occur every fifth wave to quickly make enough Klaxes to finish off it as quickly as possible (because the more you linger on it, the more apt for more tiles to come down your way thus possibly ending your potential 1CC session a whole lot quicker indeed).

Eventually, I'd score an Atari Games 1989 Klax jamma pcb to practice on/call on upon as it's the real deal + it does save both high scores & high score initials via NVRam on-board the pcb itself. Consideting that Tengen of Japan released the PC Engine version of Klax Hu-Card back in 1990 well after the Klax arcade pcb kit did, the home console port has even more end-user adjustable options to fine-tune (compared to the original Klax arcade pcb itself) making it the "definitive version of Klax to play/own" nevertheless. Of course, Tengen USA did release the Klax Turbo Chip cart for the TurboGrafx-16 console in 1990 as well and that's the version I currently own myself.

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As the ol' saying goes: "Practice makes perfect" -- which is true nowadays, which especially applies within the narrow and specific genre of shmups.
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PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[beer gas canister]

it is a pretty cool idea but i didn't come up with it; there are mentions of it in threads from 20 years ago, which is why i called it "the old bomb distribution method". i was bringing it up cuz we're in an age where there's a wealth of emulation options and ports with practice modes and stuff and i reckon most folks nowadays just grind that stuff, but i really like this kind of systematized approach to routing a game that seems viable even if all you're doing is credits starting from the beginning.

Yeah, that's what I've been doing: grinding it out using save states and many of them. I'm guilty of trying to forget I have bombs for scoring reasons, but the joke is I can't even 1CC a shmup, so what am I doing saving up my bombs? I always end up losing my stock when I inevitably blow up!

Play something like Gunvein where bombs are the primary method of scoring

[sumdumgoy]

x

[mycophobia]

i'm giving it a shot with Strikers 1945 II and more or less trying to ignore the complications of random stage order and rank's effect on that for now.

so much for that :P



wanted to keep this a pen-and-paper affair but it's too much to keep organized lol.

[mycophobia]

it just occurred to me that if, say, i need 4 bombs for the Stage 4 version of the City stage, then even if i don't strictly need them i can just plug in 4 bomb usages for Sea, Canyon, and Sky too, since when I go back to remove bomb spots i'll have to remove one bomb spot for each of the four possible stages in order to keep the number of bomb usages the same anyway. and i can go back and change one of the "extra" ones into one i really need if necessary, as well. as convoluted as it sounds this actually simplifies things greatly.

since i've come to grips with how to route this game i seriously can't stop playing it lol. just putting in credits all day

[atro_city]

Honestly this is the only way I've ever played shmups. I've always viewed bombs as a currency to be spent on risk mitigation, and figuring out the way to maximize my progress while minimizing my exposure to risk by planning bomb usage is part of the fun of routing. The only time I start practising to clear a specific section without bombing is when I've planned out all my bombs and it's time to figure out where to save one.

This is the way I have to play because advance planning and strategy are my strengths, while improvisation is my weakness.