Samsung F4500 plasma bargain for 480p sources

[LastSilmaril]

The 51" is a fabulous set equal in every way to the 43", except better, due to the immersive, monstrous size.

Right, but no space for it. In any case, I managed to track down a 43" one on Craigslist. Brought my SNES and SMW with me there, and have to say it looked pretty sweet. I especially liked how excellent it looked with no tweaking whatsoever. And yeah, vaguely CRT-like. I may take photos and post more impressions here later.

[Josh128]

It will look even better when you get it dialed in / calibrated. Im currently looking for a 43" for a gift right now, having a hard time finding one...

[Josh128]

Just snagged a 43" 2014 PN43F4500BFXZA on Ebay. It will probably never even see a game, its a Christmas gift for my mom. Its going to replace a 32" Vizio LCD in her bedroom that she had a few complaints about. Ive been so impressed by the PQ of these sets I made it my mission to get one for her.

These bad boys have quickly become extremely rare, even on Ebay and Craigslist. Now we will see if it arrives in one piece / working. Im getting shipping insurance on it and just hoping I dont have to use it.

[Josh128]

Well, the 43" arrived and well, UPS destroyed what appears to have been an immaculate set. There is nary a scuff or even a smudge on it-- except for the gigantic dent in the sheet metal backing at the bottom right corner of the set and a big set of cracks in the screen originating from the same area.

The seller actually did a really good job wrapping and boxing it up, labeling the box "Fragile", "This Side up" "Do Not Lay Flat" etc-- in fact, Im at a bit of a loss to explain how such a blow was dealt to the set, with the packaging not really showing any signs of damage. The set really was in pristine condition, a real find--this BS really cheeses me off. This set would have been PERFECT for my mom. These are almost impossible to find now, especially in the mint shape this one was in.

Now we get to fight with UPS over the insurance claim, etc. Joy.

http://imgur.com/a/lLMPV

[Xyga]

Now we get to fight with UPS over the insurance claim, etc. Joy.
http://imgur.com/a/lLMPV

Good luck with that, of all the carriers I had to deal with personally and professionally, UPS are the most vicious villains one can imagine.
If you bought with PayPal just go through them without wasting time, you'll get your money much back much faster.

EDIT: oops, eBay, not sure that will work as fine...

[Josh128]

It was purchased through Ebay and paid for via PayPal. Ebay ALWAYS sides with the buyer in cases of receiving busted items. I have a message backlog informing the seller to put insurance on the shipment as a condition of buying as well.

It just sucks, as I dont want another TV, I wanted THAT one. Its amazing, but that 2014 plasma is still thinner than any other LCD of the same size Ive seen so far. They have a very, very sleek and compact design.

[RGB32E]

That's pretty awful. My Eizo FG2421 had a nice gouge on the face side of the box when it arrived. Thankfully no product damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlUJmT2h3-4

[Josh128]

That's pretty awful. My Eizo FG2421 had a nice gouge on the face side of the box when it arrived. Thankfully no product damage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlUJmT2h3-4

That video is pretty sad. I only wish I was as lucky as you. The box actually looked fine, I really wasnt expecting the set to be damaged when I opened it, but theres no doubt this damage was done by UPS.

I actually feel bad that such a pristine set was trashed by some idiots who no doubt dropped it or threw it on its edge on top of something. I really is a shame.

I contacted the seller and UPS wants me to re-box it up and they will pick it up to "inspect" it tomorrow.

[Xyga]

Among other things I was in charge of TV's at my old job and you don't imagine how many thrashed sets I've seen.
At some point LG had changed their packaging technique and quality...to something extremely thin and shallow.
For about two or three months I believe 3 out 10 sets arrived more or less damaged, something like that.
And of course none of those carrier cunts were making it easier.
I don't even want to mention plasmas, which we stopped selling anyway after some time, too much trouble.

[Josh128]

Well, out of stubborness and eccentricity, instead of going out and buying a new LCD ,I decided to check all the local pawn shops to see what I could find-- after calling about 10 and only getting a hit on a 2012 E450, I drove to the 2 local shops in the town I live.

First one had a 2012 LG 42PN4500, a decent plasma in decent condition. I actually considered it and the picture looked decent but had a bit of external wear that turned me off.

The next and final shop, to my amazement, had a Sammy PN43F4500 AFXZA (Nov.2013) model. Not quite the July 2014 model that UPS thrashed, but it was in really good shape, so once I checked it for burn in, I negotiated 10% off the $250 asking price and was out the door! Fired up some FZero GX once home to test and the picture is tack-sharp and dazzling. Hopefully it will serve my mom well!

[Xyga]

Excellent, glad you found one !

Buying displays online is definitely not ideal.

[telemetry]

The next and final shop, to my amazement, had a Sammy PN43F4500 AFXZA (Nov.2013) model. Not quite the July 2014 model that UPS thrashed, but it was in really good shape, so once I checked it for burn in, I negotiated 10% off the $250 asking price and was out the door!

That is quite some luck! Must have a very fortuitous local market there.

Are there any notable quality differences between the AFXZA and the 2014 (BFXZA I think)?

[Josh128]

The next and final shop, to my amazement, had a Sammy PN43F4500 AFXZA (Nov.2013) model. Not quite the July 2014 model that UPS thrashed, but it was in really good shape, so once I checked it for burn in, I negotiated 10% off the $250 asking price and was out the door!

That is quite some luck! Must have a very fortuitous local market there.

Are there any notable quality differences between the AFXZA and the 2014 (BFXZA I think)?

There is not, at least in the 51" versions, because I have both. I think there are a few minor differences in the menu and at 1 different button on the remote, but I'd have to check to see exactly what they are and get back with you. Bout to leave for work now...

[Josh128]

The BFXZA models have an on screen program guide and the remote has a Guide button. The AFXZAs dont. Oddly enough, the BFXZAs dont have the "Expert" pattern that the AFXZAs have.

Not sure if this is related to the firmware or the model itself though. Ive not dared to upgrade the firmware on any of my sets...

[andykara2003]

If anyone's still looking for one of the 43" models, I have one that I'm looking to sell or swap for a similar sized 1080p set. The TV is in great condition - no marks etc.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I'm in the UK..

[balazer]

I have had the same results (Wii and GC 480p looking much sharper and better than 480i) on 5 other HDTVs-- my original 2001 Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" 1080i/480p set (which is the set I owned when I purchased my GC cables back in late 2002), my Philips 32PT9100D 1080i/480p set,

Josh128, can you please tell me more about that Philips 32PT9100D TV and its 480p support? Does it scan 480p natively from a 480p signal on its component input? Did you try measuring the lag? I have a chance to buy such a set. Thanks.

[Josh128]

I have had the same results (Wii and GC 480p looking much sharper and better than 480i) on 5 other HDTVs-- my original 2001 Hitachi Ultravision Digital 36" 1080i/480p set (which is the set I owned when I purchased my GC cables back in late 2002), my Philips 32PT9100D 1080i/480p set,

Josh128, can you please tell me more about that Philips 32PT9100D TV and its 480p support? Does it scan 480p natively from a 480p signal on its component input? Did you try measuring the lag? I have a chance to buy such a set. Thanks.

Talk about necro-bump, props finding the reference to that Philips set in this 8 year dormant thread, lol. I had that set in the pre-lag tester era. It does accept 480p on its component input, thats how I used it. I did play quite a bit of Wii, GC, and PS2 on it and can tell you this much-- I didnt notice any input lag in 480p Mario Galaxy at the time. I also played through MGS3 on PS2 on it in 480i without issue, Im sure there was at least some lag in that mode, but I dont think it was noticeable in that game. I found its 480i presentation to be very good visually. There is a major caveat with this set-- 240p sources present at something around 10 frames per second, regardless of the input type used. Its unusable for native 240p content. However, with the advent of scalers that can convert anything to 480p and send to the set, you will be fine.

Depending on the price you can get it for and its condition, I would say go for it if you can deal with needing a scaler for 240p sources.

Also, because Im in the thread, might as well say my daughter still uses her 43" F4500 plasma daily for PC use, my sons 51" still works fine but gets little usage in his bedroom since he went off to college last year, my living room 51F5300 plasma still gets daily use and still looks fantastic, playing the 49'ers vs Bills right now, lol. The 60" F5300 pentile that I bought for $50 and repaired (power supply) gets nightly use in our bedroom and takes the image crown out of all of them. It replaced the original 51F4500 that started this thread after it developed a vertical pink line that was apparently a panel issue that I tried everything possible to fix but was unsuccessful. My how time flies. These plasmas still look better than everything this side of OLED, IMO.

[tongshadow]

Im still on the lookout for these elusive last-gen Samsung 480p Plasmas. In the meantime, I've been getting REALLY good results with 768p sets, but you do need hardware capable of outputting such resolutions and scaling the source resolution.
Some pics, courtesy of the Retro GEM

https://i.imgur.com/9ghvk25.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/Jxczg3g.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/lhGT0Rh.jpeg

[Josh128]

Im still on the lookout for these elusive last-gen Samsung 480p Plasmas. In the meantime, I've been getting REALLY good results with 768p sets, but you do need hardware capable of outputting such resolutions and scaling the source resolution.
Some pics, courtesy of the Retro GEM

https://i.imgur.com/9ghvk25.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/Jxczg3g.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/lhGT0Rh.jpeg

Actually, the F4500 is 768p and F5300's are 1080p. The thread title just meant that 480p looked good on the 768p F4500 without an external scaler.

[tongshadow]

Look at what Santa left under my Christmas Tree... The elusive 480p Plasma!
Im still setting things up with the RetroGEM and OSSC, but right now I can tell you all that is EASILY the BEST way to play 240p/480i/480p on a big flat panel.
The granularity of a 480p panel makes those video sources look very crisp and CRT-like, you get that really nice phosphor look! It adds "texture and character" to low resolution sources. And because it has 480 pixels vertically, I can use them all without worrying about interger scaling and losing some of the viewing area, a problem we have with 768p and 1080p panels. Not having to deal with uneven scaling, or scaling at all, is a huge plus imo.
The 43" widescreen panel has the viewing area equivalent to a 36"+ CRT when displaying 4:3 sources, so this is an upgrade considering most play on 21" and 27" CRTs. Motion clarity is extremely good as well, virtually blur-free.

https://i.imgur.com/eb6eOGZ.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/y2Xm20S.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/VImzXOo.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/p8kJOr1.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/rNXjoSw.jpeg

Im honestly mindblown, I highly recommend these 480p Plasma panels for retrogaming if you have the right hardware!

[balazer]

Which model? What's the input lag?

[tongshadow]

Which model? What's the input lag?

PN43H4000, I'll post a list of 480p Plasma models later. Will also measure display lag by comparing it to a CRT, I'll record both at the same time running from the same console.

[Josh128]

Which model? What's the input lag?

PN43H4000, I'll post a list of 480p Plasma models later. Will also measure display lag by comparing it to a CRT, I'll record both at the same time running from the same console.

This looks amazing. The "granular" look is what made the 768p F4500 the ultimate (at least visually) display for 720p X360/PS3 era games, with great looking 480p as well without any external scalers.

This model was still produced in 2013/2014 along with the other models in the final year?! Certainly not in the US, but in some other regions perhaps? Do they have both AF models or BF as well? If its like the 768p nad 1080p models, the AF will have a rolling input lag between ~35-45ms, the BF will have fixed input lag around ~ 37ms. Can you post a picture of the entire actual panel? Where did you find this?

[donluca]

I have an ebay alert set almost 10 years ago and all I got was spare parts and nothing else.

One day...

[tongshadow]

This looks amazing. The "granular" look is what made the 768p F4500 the ultimate (at least visually) display for 720p X360/PS3 era games, with great looking 480p as well without any external scalers.

This model was still produced in 2013/2014 along with the other models in the final year?! Certainly not in the US, but in some other regions perhaps? Do they have both AF models or BF as well? If its like the 768p nad 1080p models, the AF will have a rolling input lag between ~35-45ms, the BF will have fixed input lag around ~ 37ms. Can you post a picture of the entire actual panel? Where did you find this?

Yes, I believe these late 480p Plasmas were mostly available outside the US, likely due to market price segmentation. I got mine used from local listings, it was 10 minutes away from my house.
Lag is rIght around the 35~45ms (2.5~3frames) ball park, yes. This is actually one of the least laggy Plasmas, it's not uncommon to see late models reaching 70ms+. Samsung's are amongst the faster Plasmas, in my experience.

[tongshadow]

480p Plasma List (likely incomplete), use this site to check for other models:
http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/flatscreen_mfg.cfm
Google "480p Plasma" for more obscure brands and products. Naming can also change between regions.

Samsung:
PS/PL43E400
PS/PL43F4000
PN43H4000
SP-P4251

Panasonic:
TVs
TH-42PD25UP
TH-42PD60U
Monitors
TH-42PWD7UY
TH-42PWD8UK
TH-42PS9UK

LG:
32PC5DVC
32PC5RV
42PC3DV
42PC1RV

Pioneer:
PDP-V402

[Josh128]

What year was your model produced?

[tongshadow]

Bad news for OSSC users, at least in regards to my specific Samsung model. The TV cant display 480p (720x480) sources without compressing the signal. Using 960p works better (Full 4:4:4) and effectively looks the same as native 480p, but keep this in mind.

What year was your model produced?

2014, the H Series are the last Plasmas ever made from Samsung. F series - 2013, E series - 2012, D series - 2011 and so forth.
https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h5000-201403143657

[Josh128]

In the US, the AFXZA's were the 2013 models, BFXZA 's were the last plasmas (2014) produced by Samsung I have 2 for sure, I dont remember if my 60" is A or B.

[bobrocks95]

If you're going by that 240p test suite camera test, my Panasonic TH-42PWD8UK had 7-8 or so frames of lag if I remember right.

Wouldn't say it felt that bad in practice though, but at the time it was useless for 240p so I mostly played 6th gen consoles on it where games aren't as twitchy anyways.