Radiant Silvergun rant

[gray117]

What's good in the case of both games is that you can have a specific reasons with RSG/Iky - they are very distinctive. They won't just disappear unnoticed/forgotten.

I would say they're worth sticking with to see if you get into them, but don't feel bad if they're not your thing - you'll at least be able to say why.

Personally I love both, even if I hate them very often, and often resort to credit feeding... and what's wierd I love RSG the most, even though I hate it the most.

[guigui]

I've made it to 6-1. I've learned to love this game, but the method for unlocking story training mode is absolutely exhausting. Finally getting that one clean run and being awarded with only the ability to train the next 30 seconds to a minutes worth of gameplay is really unnecessarily cruel to the player in such a long and demanding title.

Now that I think about it, maybe I ought to just plow through easy mode real quick to unlock the training mode...

Congrats on the 6-1, almost there. Saturn or Arcade mode ?

[ACSeraph]

Thanks, I'm still in Saturn Mode so I can focus on survival rather than chaining. It's honestly not an easy clear though; even with the upgraded weapons it's taken way more work than a lot of games I've 1cc-ed. I just learned the whale boss and I've seen the turtle as well. Xiga I practiced a lot via arcade training so I'm not too worried about him. The big challenge now it being able to practice the hawk boss and just pulling everything together in a single clean run.

I'll use this clear as a starting point to hopefully getting a stage 2 arcade clear with basic chaining and full boss destruction. I think the big issue there is simply going to be learning boss battles with a lower power level and some of the obvious chaining opportunities in the later levels that I'm currently ignoring. I can't really ever see myself doing a raw story clear though just because I'm not into the scoring system and that shit is absolutely not intended for survival players.

[guigui]

Oh well, now I'm confused about the different game modes. Iirc, the stage with Turtle and Hawk boss is not mandatory to get a clear in what I'd call a 1CC of Arcade mode. Unless I'm mistaken.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong ?
* Arcade mode : can chose between stage 2 and stage 4 route. Weapons levels reset each run.
* Saturn mode : run both stage and stage 4, plus an additionnal stage with Turtle and Hawk boss. Weapons levels reset each run.
* Story mode : run which stages ? Weapons levels are stored.

[ACSeraph]

Ah I guess I'm doing story mode. I'm using saved weapon levels for the first run. I thought Saturn and Story were the same thing (I'm playing on 360).

Anyhow arcade mode is shorter as you described, but I'm doing story with saved weapons first as it's the easiest clear. I'm going to go for Arcade after I'm done.

[Austin]

Oh well, now I'm confused about the different game modes. Iirc, the stage with Turtle and Hawk boss is not mandatory to get a clear in what I'd call a 1CC of Arcade mode. Unless I'm mistaken.

Anyone can correct me if I'm wrong ?
* Arcade mode : can chose between stage 2 and stage 4 route. Weapons levels reset each run.
* Saturn mode : run both stage and stage 4, plus an additionnal stage with Turtle and Hawk boss. Weapons levels reset each run.
* Story mode : run which stages ? Weapons levels are stored.

Saturn Mode and Story Mode are the same thing. If you're playing Story mode, it's because you're on the 360 version of the game. It's not called Saturn Mode on the 360 because, well... you're not playing on a Sega Saturn.

[guigui]

Allright. So the additional stage is purely a Saturn thing and can not be played in Arcade mode ? Was not on the STV version of the game ?

[ACSeraph]

^Yeah the extra bosses are Saturn/Story only.

Also back in the "rant" spirit of the thread, seriously fuck that Phoenix boss. At this point he is the only barrier to my clear but goddamn he's harder than even the final boss. He's the first boss I've found in the game I'd call "cheap", because there are major bullet visibility issues in this fight.

[Kiken]

^Yeah the extra bosses are Saturn/Story only.

Also back in the "rant" spirit of the thread, seriously fuck that Phoenix boss. At this point he is the only barrier to my clear but goddamn he's harder than even the final boss.

Ohtrigen is no joke.

It's entirely possible that the bonus bosses in Saturn/Story mode are buried somewhere in the ST-V ROM data as unfinished material that Treasure chose to complete for the Saturn port. But I guess someone would have to scour the original code to see if they're in there.

[guigui]

^Yeah the extra bosses are Saturn/Story only.

Also back in the "rant" spirit of the thread, seriously fuck that Phoenix boss. At this point he is the only barrier to my clear but goddamn he's harder than even the final boss. He's the first boss I've found in the game I'd call "cheap", because there are major bullet visibility issues in this fight.

You can learn a lot about bullets by turning hitboxes ON in the options, nice way to learn the patterns quicker.

[ACSeraph]

Welp, got it done

Honestly not a huge accomplishment given that I had the leveled up weapons and all, but it still took a good amount of work. Guess it's time to learn chaining for a real attempt at arcade mode.

[Trevor spencer]

I played this for about 3 months straight, best I could do was the big mothership near the end on 1 Credit.

Your right this is a damn hard game , I gave up in the end

Like you I loved the graphics music and what they accomplished on ST-V hardware but damn.

[ACSeraph]

I'm going to just confirm that starting with Story Mode (Leveled up weapons) is definitely the way new players should approach this game. After just a short bit of practicing some obvious chain points and a couple credits I'm already making it near the end of stage 2 in arcade mode within my first day of play. Story definitely gave me a good foundation and confidence to work with. You really don't need to worry about forming "bad habits". Arcade mode is essentially "level 2" with basic chaining mandatory and a need to learn more of the boss patterns to capitalize on destruction rate bonuses. My opinion of RSG has changed drastically over this month.

I really believe this was Treasure's intended progression for new players, and it's quite well executed:

Level 1: Story Mode (Leveled)
Player demonstrates basic survival and routing ability.

Level 2: Arcade Mode (Stage 2)
Player demonstrates a basic understanding of chaining and weapon level progression.

Level 3: Arcade Mode (Stage 4)
Player demonstrates a basic understanding of chaining and weapon level progression in a more demanding survival route.

Level 4: Story Mode (Raw)
Player demonstrates a mastery of chaining and knowledge of advanced scoring systems in a highly demanding survival course.

[guigui]

^ This is a nice way to put things up. I just skipped level 1, cleared level 2, got my ass handed down by level 3.

I'm glad you appreciate the game, it is definitely a cornerstone of shmupping.
And includes my all time favorite moment in a shmup : stage 2, climbing fast to the moon under the Warning signal, and be greeted by Kotetsu's karate move, whaaa-kkhhee.

[ACSeraph]

That's definitely one of the cooler moments in the game. My favorite is actually Xiga's final attack with the beating heart. It's not difficult but it's so damn stylish.

I would still recommend doing Story (Leveled) even if you cleared Arcade (Stage 2), just because you'll get to experience a lot of really amazing extra content and having to do it all in one long gauntlet gives the game this amazingly epic space opera feel. The Story (Raw) clear is probably out of range for all but the most dedicated players, so it would be a shame if the majority of players missed out on half the game by skipping over the "easy" clear.

[Austin]

I never even thought to do Story Mode raw until this thread. I had eventually switched to the PCB, lived off that for the longest time and forgot about Story Mode all together. I need to try that now, it sounds awesome.

[AZA]

I have owned Radiant Silvergun for many years. it was one of the first import games i bought in my childhood. I cant bring myself to play it, but i cant bring myself to sell it either. haha

it's a gorgeous game by any standard, but the gameplay is just obtuse in my opinion. too many things to worry about.... its over reliant on chaining to upgrade your weapons and a lot of the bosses seem literally unbeatable without first attaining certain weapon upgrades...

[MaXXX]

I really just don't enjoy the chaining system in RS; it feels so forced and arbitrary. Tying it to the weapon levels really killed the game for me, because it makes it impossible to even just enjoy survival play while ignoring score play. In a way I really respect that the scoring is an integral element of the game, but it just doesn't do anything for me. If they got rid of the weapon leveling system or revamped it, and just tied scoring to extends as per usual I think I would have enjoyed RS a lot more.

I also think the game's mainstream popularity mostly comes from credit feeders who would be unaffected by scoring systems. They are therefore only judging it on the general epicness of the game, which RS definitely has. I would wager among the 1cc chasing crowd you would find a lot more (though probably still a small minority) people who couldn't enjoy it no matter how badass most other things about the game are.

Sorry for the late response, but the PC version has a "Ikaruga" chaining game mode which makes it a lot more bearable. You can go Red>Red>Red>Blue>Blue>Blue without dropping your chain, you don't have to stick to one colour the whole level

[guigui]

^ iirc the Ikaruga mode of RSG is also available in the X360 and Switch versions.

[Mortificator]

I finally got around to playing a version of RSG with Ikaruga mode earlier this year, and it is more bearable, but I still don't like the game much. Other than aesthetically. There are some games with harsh, high-risk systems that I've come around on – like Border Down – but when you impel me to manage leveling three weapon categories over the course of the run by killing enemies, it feels so bad getting kneecapped because I shot down an enemy who was TRYING TO KILL ME but it's the wrong color.

[sunnshiner]

I love the presentation and idea but as a shmup (ie blowing everything up) it's a terrible example. That an optional different chaining system (based on another gorgeous-yet-shit game's scoring system) was implemented in later releases to make it ever so slightly less unbearable speaks volumes.

No, I am not a fan.