Xenon 2 Megablast discussion thread

[MJR]

Oh my. If I had known, back in the day, it would have been soo much easier to 1cc this game, because I would have always had enough left for autofire/extra heart/nashwan/you name it

Yeah, nashwan, advice, everything Is fair as long as you empty your pockets, otherwise you're losing It anyway.

Getting back to the twin snake boss a moment... Here's a possibile explanation for this. I think it's just too clean for this to be a bug...

I'm sure you all have noticed that Xenon 2 is guilty of another "blasphemy" for genre aficionados: the game takes record of how much damage you inflict to bosses, and respawns you with a convenient checkpoint at them. Basically, if you take out 90% of energy from a boss and lose a life to It, you respawn there and destroy the remaining 10% with a few shots...

Maybe in this mechanic lies the secret of the twin snake, because It occurs to me when I die... Maybe they just wanted to make sure that the snake fight did pose a challenge regardless of life loss... MJR, could you try on the Amiga to see if you can get the double snake at all?

To see if there are 2 snakes instead of one in the 2nd/3rd loop? Sure, that gives me a nice excuse to play it. Funny thing is, I never used to play the second/third loop back in the day - it didn't even occur to me that they would be different to play. I always shut the game down after 1cc XD ..would be interesting to see how far could I get if I actually tried.

[Turrican]

No, I think you can get two snakes even in the first loop. The catch is, It seems to appear when you lose a life against it. Lose a life against the snake: then respawn, maybe try to use rear propulsors a bit, to scroll the screen downwards... From the craters at the sides of the screen there should appear a couple of snakes.

[MJR]

That's interesting, because I genuinely can't remember if that part had one or two snakes in it. Too many years. OK, I have a look at both loops (I have original disks installed in WHDload on A1200 so at least it should be 'legit' version)

[MJR]

Played yesterday until last boss, getting 2 autofires is definitely a wrist-saver :p anyway, there was only one snake. I did kill my ship and re-entered the area, and it was still one snake.




I guess I'll try to enter 2nd loop to see if there is any difference.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Interesting curio I stumbled across today: the ridiculous "in character" Review of Xenon 2 which gave the game a 100% score. I've mentioned this before because I remember reading it as an eleven-year-old and I have to say many a school-yard spat were resolved with the unconquerable retort of "Yeah, well it got 100%".

Truly a piece of Xenon 2 history - a testament to how over-hyped this game was, I've been looking for this review for a long time. Turns out it was archived here.

For further lols, view RoseTintedSpectrum's dramatic reading.

Spoiler

KYAG is an acronym for Kiss Your Ass Goodbye!

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Is isn't this game avaiable on the Atari Jaguar gaming platform as well? Here it is: https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l= ... ail&p=1087

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Austin]

Is isn't this game avaiable on the Atari Jaguar gaming platform as well? Here it is: https://atariage.com/store/index.php?l= ... ail&p=1087

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Yes. It’s a port of the ST version with some added features.

[Sly Cherry Chunks]

Fired this one up today after more than a decade away from the game (haven't played since round about the time of that blog I wrote). I'm really not enjoying my stay in the Berenstain Universe - turns out the tomato rush on 2-2 definitely does give you points now.

Very weird how weapons stack in this game. You can equip sideshots and homing missiles at the same time, but if you pick up the missiles while carrying the drone, they will replace your sideshots. It might not ever be worth getting the drone - stack up on lives for the later loops instead.

Triggered a weird bug in winuae. Died at the 5-1 tank boss and it continued to attack from offscreen when I restarted from the checkpoint, it's yellow laser firing down the middle of the screen for the remainder of the stage until we met up again.

Much more interested in the first game now.

[Necronom]

Interesting curio I stumbled across today: the ridiculous "in character" Review of Xenon 2 which gave the game a 100% score. I've mentioned this before because I remember reading it as an eleven-year-old and I have to say many a school-yard spat were resolved with the unconquerable retort of "Yeah, well it got 100%".

Truly a piece of Xenon 2 history - a testament to how over-hyped this game was, I've been looking for this review for a long time. Turns out it was archived here.

And yet this ridiculous review is more entertaining than 90% of the modern shite Eurogamer and IGN are throwing at its readers today.
Xenon 2's constant style over substance would make a glorious kusoge mobile game...just like Sword of Sodan

[Turrican]

Played yesterday until last boss, getting 2 autofires is definitely a wrist-saver :p anyway, there was only one snake. I did kill my ship and re-entered the area, and it was still one snake.

Here's a quick update on this double snake thing: I was able to replicate the glitch even on the Evercade (Bitmap Brothers Collection Vol.1). The method is the same: just lose your life before the section, and as soon as you restart at the checkpoint, use your rear engines to scroll the screen backwards. Et voilà... double snakes.

[MJR]

Ok so it was a glitch, not a feature..

[Turrican]

Yes, I would dispel my doubt and call that just a glitch.

By the way, there's a relatively recent news of someone attempting at a 50hz AGA version of the game:

https://www.indieretronews.com/2024/09/ ... m.html?m=1

McGeezer is the guy (already known in the scene for Turbo Sprint, Rygar), and this is his YouTube Channel:

https://youtube.com/@geezergamesretro?s ... 8iYUBGj7_P

And here we thought that the Jaguar port would be the final nail in the coffin... It goes without saying that enhancing the game through AGA means that this will basically be the first "real" Amiga version of the game, since the original for all intents and purpose was an Atari ST code where arguably only the sound had been altered to make a better use of the OCS/ECS architecture.

[Edit]: turns out McGeezer is a longtime lurker here:

viewtopic.php?t=16821

Let's hear from him directly then. Come on Sir, don't be shy.

[MJR]

That's pretty neat. Framerate was one of the major grievances I had with Xenon 2. Of course, they offset that by allowing the player to screw up quite a lot, which in turn made the game too easy once you figured out some basic tricks.

Turning the game to run 50fps could also, possibly, render it too easy but we'll see. I also wonder if there are any enemy / boss behaviour code that is locked to the framerate, things those days were often a spaghetti which fell apart if you pushed a little. Then again Bitmaps also ported their games a lot, which implies a clean and well documented code so who knows.

[Turrican]

Since they even got a provisional name, "Xenon 2 Recoded", I must say that lots of ideas pop up in mind where to improve or alter things...

Like... Diminishing the Megablaster hitbox. Move all the subweapons that require to hold button pressed to a second button. Or the easiest and probably best of them all: add a second button for turbo autofire, that way you can alternate between single shot and charged (it's how modern R-Types solved the Beam dilemma). Then again these things would not really fix issues, but rather create new ones.

I'm slowly adapting to the idea that no one really wants to play this game under its rules. It's way easier to diss It by playing It following our present horizon of expectations.

Like, there are several longplays on YouTube and yet not a single one I did find where the player chose to go with purchasable autofire x2 (which you know, doesn't prevent one to sporadically supersede It with good ol' button mashing), everyone uses the perpertual hardware autofire.

The last longplay I watched was like this, and the guy naturally halfway buys the electroball, then resell It lamenting that It wasn't useful at all.

Mines also get criminally overlooked for the very same reason. I just had a run with mines and I think the smaller one isn't a bad powerup for its meager cost of 1000 credits that you can get very early. As we repeated more than once, the game flow Is an alternating of side shot and rear shot. However, I feel that if it's possible to devise a strategy to survive the 3-1 corridor without the rear shot, then one could legitimately attempt at a run with sideshot always on. In such an attempt, an economic mine could be potentially more valuable than a drone absurdely priced at 4500.

[MJR]

I am bit skeptical of those homebrew "improvement" projects as game design is often about balance more than anything else, and moving things around may affect that balance. And 80's Bitmap Brothers games were actually the very few amiga games where design had some proper thought put into it. I am biased because Eric Matthews who was active in Bitmaps as that time was/is smarter than 99% of game developers in this continent, back in the day, and probably smarter than most of the homebrewers.

But that doesn't mean they shouldn't give it a shot. Let's see what happens.

[Turrican]

Matthews was the genius of the band. He was probably the one most interested into arcades too.

That's not to say less of the others of course. The original trio is all impressive in their own regards. Montgomery had the most experience (going back to the Leisure Genius times. He is even listed at https://dadgum.com/giantlist/)

The four talents that they got immediately after, Coleman and Malone on graphics and Whittaker and the late Joseph on music and sound effects... It can be said without exaggerating that each one of them left his distinctive mark.

Still, Matthews was probably also the gel, and his leaving spelled the end of the band per se.

[Shatterhand]

I've seen a video of Xenon 2 being played on a CDTV with improved framerate. Dunno if it was emulation trickery, video editing or something.

It did look like it could be a litte more enjoyable.

But the poor framerate is just one of the main problems with this game.

Someone said years ago about this game on this thread, and that has always been my impression too: this was overhyped back in the day because either british people didn't have access to proper good games, or people were just bribed by Bitmap Brothers.

Remove the music and there's nothing good here. And yeah, I've played the Amiga version back in the day. I thought my cracked version was a leaked beta, bad crack or something, because I couldn't believe *THAT PIECE OF CRAP* was the game getting raving reviews on magazines.

[MJR]

I've seen a video of Xenon 2 being played on a CDTV with improved framerate. Dunno if it was emulation trickery, video editing or something.

It did look like it could be a litte more enjoyable.

But the poor framerate is just one of the main problems with this game.

Someone said years ago about this game on this thread, and that has always been my impression too: this was overhyped back in the day because either british people didn't have access to proper good games, or people were just bribed by Bitmap Brothers.

Remove the music and there's nothing good here. And yeah, I've played the Amiga version back in the day. I thought my cracked version was a leaked beta, bad crack or something, because I couldn't believe *THAT PIECE OF CRAP* was the game getting raving reviews on magazines.

"Nothing good" is an exaggeration though you are entitled to your opinion of course. It certainly isn't up to the standards of, say, Toaplan or Irem shmup. Not by a long shot. I can agree with that with no problem.

But it was still more imaginative or entertaining than 95% of euroshmups there. I loved the boss designs, style, weapons and the shop system. Try playing some of the crap we were force fed back then. For truly abysmal experience, you can try Project-X. That's one of the worst shmups I've ever played.

[Shatterhand]

I own an Amiga to this day. Between 1991 and 1998 the Amiga was my main gaming machine sitting side by side with my Mega-Drive and, well, by then my old and extremely aged MSX. I'm very acquainted with the Amiga games library, as I had to stick with it for a while after the system was dead and people were playing their Playstation and high-end PC games

-

I always say Xenon 2 and Project X are the most overhyped games I ever played.

But when Xenon 2 was released, Hybris was already released, and Battle Squadron was released around the same time.

Nope. No reason to load Xenon 2 when I had Battle Squadron and Hybris. They may be not be exactly original, but they were smooth, well designed, and fun to play. Considering the year they were released, I don't think there were much better shmups to be played on a home system unless, I dunno, you were rich enough to import an X68000 (Which, quite frankly, I only heard about its existance a couple of years later).

Now if you are comparing it to Project-X which was released later.... we had Apidya IIRC on the same month as Project-X and that was a really good euro-developed shmup. Before that we had Z-Out which was also pretty solid. I guess the German guys knew one thing or two more about how to design a nice shmup than the British* ones? Hehehe

Of course I had an MSX before and any top key 8 bits shmup made by a Japanese team was also better than Xenon 2, heh.


*(I know Andreas Tadic who was the main designer of Project-X is actually from Sweden, but Team 17 is British... so I'll consider Project-X a British game )

[MJR]

I own an Amiga to this day. Between 1991 and 1998 the Amiga was my main gaming machine sitting side by side with my Mega-Drive and, well, by then my old and extremely aged MSX. I'm very acquainted with the Amiga games library, as I had to stick with it for a while after the system was dead and people were playing their Playstation and high-end PC games

-

I always say Xenon 2 and Project X are the most overhyped games I ever played.

But when Xenon 2 was released, Hybris was already released, and Battle Squadron was released around the same time.

Nope. No reason to load Xenon 2 when I had Battle Squadron and Hybris. They may be not be exactly original, but they were smooth, well designed, and fun to play. Considering the year they were released, I don't think there were much better shmups to be played on a home system unless, I dunno, you were rich enough to import an X68000 (Which, quite frankly, I only heard about its existance a couple of years later).

Now if you are comparing it to Project-X which was released later.... we had Apidya IIRC on the same month as Project-X and that was a really good euro-developed shmup. Before that we had Z-Out which was also pretty solid. I guess the German guys knew one thing or two more about how to design a nice shmup than the British* ones? Hehehe

Of course I had an MSX before and any top key 8 bits shmup made by a Japanese team was also better than Xenon 2, heh.


*(I know Andreas Tadic who was the main designer of Project-X is actually from Sweden, but Team 17 is British... so I'll consider Project-X a British game )

Well, timing may be the key here. I had Amiga in 1988-1994, but got gradually bored with it once I got Megadrive and Snes. When I got Xenon and Xenon 2 back in the day, they and Sidewinder & Starray and Datastorm were the top, no contest. Hybris I got year after Xenon 2 and loved it, but to me back then, Xenon 2 still was more exciting, Hybris was too monotonous. Battle Squadron was sonething I got year later and I loved it.

In retrospective, Hybris and Battle Squadron are more enjoyable games, and smooth, but I think Z-out is the best of them.

Love for Apidya is something I dont get. Its smooth, well made and playable, but graphics and themes elicit absolute zero interest with me. I tried to play it but I hate it. Presentation and theme and concept matter also. Not just framerate alone, unless someone is some kind of turbo savant.

Anyway, I believe this comes down to taste. I havent seen any convincing reasoning why Xenon 2 is not good, aside from obvious criticism of framerates. On the other hand, I can and I have written here in the past quite exhaustive analysis why Project-X is not good at all, and those criticisms dont apply to Xenon 2.

[Turrican]

I own an Amiga to this day. Between 1991 and 1998 the Amiga was my main gaming machine sitting side by side with my Mega-Drive

timing may be the key here

Timing IS the key.

You had the Amiga since 1991? And next to a 1991 Megadrive? That's a sideral age compared to to october 1989, you know.

When Xenon 2 hit the stores, the (import only) Megadrive had exactly one shmup: Thunderforce II, and Space Harrier II. It would get Forgotten Worlds the month after, and by the end of that year It would have got Truxton and Curse.

Of course, during the 1990 it woud get Darwin 4081, Whip Rush, ThunderForce III, Twin Hawk, Phelios, XDR, Insector X, Space Invaders '90, Hellfire, Arrow Flash, Fire Shark, Atomic Robo-Kid, Elemental Master, Dangerous Seed, Darius II, MUSHA, Gaiares, Heavy Unit, Battle Squadron. Around the end of this year the Megadrive would get an US and European release and stop being an import only machine.

In 1991, the megadrive would have continued its stride with Gynoug, Air Buster, Twin Cobra, Cross Fire, Verytex, Fire Mustang, Zero Wing, Raiden Trad, Vapor Trail, Master of Weapon, Uchu Senkan Gomora, Trouble Shooter, Task Force Harrier EX... Ending the year with Undeadline...

...At which point you got both machine one next another. And began comparing the games. The landscape was completely different at that point of course.

So it's extremely difficult for one well-versed in a machine to look back at it and see its story goes a long way before 1991. Instead of always have the warp drive to that fateful May of 1992, when the amiga magazines reviewed in the same month Agony, Apidya and Project-X (this one honestly so ill conceived that it's always remembered in its "revised edition" of September 1993), it would be generous to see the Amiga shmup landscape in 1989. Enjoy longplays of:

1986:
Fireblaster (Eidersoft)

1987:
Vaders (Softgang), Insanity Fight (Linel), Jupiter Probe (Microdeal/Steve Bak), Goldrunner (Microdeal), Phalanx (Anco), Iridon (Kingsoft), Sky Fighter (Rainbow Arts), Challenger (King Soft/Hack n Slay), Screaming Wings, Phalanx II The Return (Kingsoft), Black Shadow (CRL/EA), Plutos (Mindscape/Tynesoft), Typhoon (Kingsoft)

1988:
Excalibur (Kingsoft), Sarcophaser (Rainbow Arts/Hack n Slay), Spinworld (LogicForce), XR-35/Fighter Mission (Anco), Scorpio (Kingsoft), Alpha-1 (ECP), Atax (Eclipse/Ramware), Suicide Mission (Microvalue), Zynaps (Hewson), Star Goose! (Logotron), Menace (Psygnosis/DMA), Cortex (ECP), Sidewinder (Arcadia/Synergistic), Iron Hand (U.S. Gold/Canvas), Anatomic Man (Accolade), Hell Bent (Novagen), Alert (ECP), Phantom Fighter (Martech/EA/Emerald), Katakis (Rainbow Arts/Factor 5), The FInal Trip (Softgang), Hybris (Discovery/Cope-Com)

1989:
Quasar (White Panther), Jug (Microdeal), R-Type/Denaris (Activision/Factor 5), Sci-Fi (Lightsource), Star Breaker (Atari UK/Frames), Ilyad (Ubi Soft), DNA Warrior (Artronic), Forgotten Worlds (US Gold/Arc Developments), Side Arms (US Gold/Probe), Goldrunner II (Microdeal), Phobia (Image Works/Crowther), Sidewinder II (Mastertronic/PAL), Dominator (System3/Cale), Dragon Spirit (Domark/Consult), Trained Assassin (Digital Magic Software), Aladdin's Magic Lamp (New Line), Blood Money (Psygnosis/DMA), Outlands (Pandora/Bizarre), Steigar (Screen7), Silkworm (Mastertronic/Sales Curve), Mr. Heli (Firebird/Probe), Battle Squadron (Innerprise/Cope-Com), Hyperdome (PC Hits/Microwish), Slayer (Hewson/Microwish), Gemini Wing (Mastetronic/Imagitec), Darius+ (Softek)

That's what roughly was available on the platform before Xenon 2, and immediately after its release. I know, one might be tempted to laugh at this as a gallery of horrors, but these weren't PD/Freewares titles, but actual products which enjoyed shelf space, reviews, and adverts. Each of these titles, with the exception of Fireblaster, is chronologically less distanced to Xenon 2 than Apidya or Project-X are. It may worthwhile to youtube some of them to have a general idea. From the original products with a 50% screen convering status bar, to the first arcade conversions which aren't all of Silkworm and R-Type quality of course (have a look at Side Arms and Gemini Wing for instance).

[Turrican]

Remove the music and there's nothing good here.

The argument can be reversed. Hybris and Battle Squadron have the smooth gameplay. Like, honestly, dozens before them? It can be argued that Insanity Fight on my list plays smoothly already. Other games boast the a great music track in that list: Goldrunner, for example.

So it's not just about music at all. First of all, it's about art direction. Let's take this thread:

"Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2023)"

01. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT/PS4/XB1)
02. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou/Black Label/etc. (ARC/etc.)
03. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3/PS4)
04. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360)

Can these four titles be considered artistically accomplished, as a whole, as Xenon 2? Well... They can. Some of them can, maybe. But it's highly debatable. (then again, if people cast their votes factoring artistic merits, we would probably read a different list? Something with In the Hunt or Einhänder in it?)

And that takes care of Bomb the Bass, David Whittaker, and most importantly, Mark Coleman. As an art package, it's still top notch. That is the part of the game that makes it still relevant today, of course.

When we switch to gameplay though, there are other things however, that you could have found in Xenon 2 in 1989 and not see in its contemporary peers:

-it makes an effort on diversifying enemy waves patterns;
-it consciously attempts to replicate the wow factor given by Alcon and the games that transform and enlarge your vessel with add-ons. Xenon 2 undestands this and bring it to the extremes (the frame rate is also the extreme sacrifice it pays to do that);
-it tries to escape the simplicity of controls in a system dominated by single button joysticks. There are at least four weapons which require you to hold down the button to activate their use. among this, the placeable mines on screen and the remotely controlled "force" which puts the game up there with R-Type as far as controllable pods go;
-it's absolutely on time with the arcade trends of its era: it offers the biological setting and the store mechanics;
-it loops;
-it doesn't ask you to perform a Zangief's screw piledriver to fire up a smart bomb

[MJR]

Remove the music and there's nothing good here.

The argument can be reversed. Hybris and Battle Squadron have the smooth gameplay. Like, honestly, dozens before them? It can be argued that Insanity Fight on my list plays smoothly already. Other games boast the a great music track in that list: Goldrunner, for example.

So it's not just about music at all. First of all, it's about art direction. Let's take this thread:

"Top 25 Shmups of All Time (through 2023)"

01. Battle Garegga (ARC/SAT/PS4/XB1)
02. DoDonPachi Dai-Ou-Jou/Black Label/etc. (ARC/etc.)
03. Ketsui ~Kizuna Jigoku Tachi~ (ARC/360/PS3/PS4)
04. Mushihimesama Futari / 1.5 / Black Label (ARC/360)

Can these four titles be considered artistically accomplished, as a whole, as Xenon II? Well... They can. Some of them can, maybe. But it's highly debatable. (then again, if people cast their votes factoring artistic merits, we would probably read a different list? Something with In the Hunt or Einhänder in it?)

And that takes care of Bomb the Bass, David Whittaker, and most importantly, Mark Coleman. As an art package, it's still top notch. That is the part of the game that makes it still relevant today, of course.

When we switch to gameplay though, there are other things however, that you could have found in Xenon II in 1989 and not see in its contemporary peers:

-it makes an effort on diversifying enemy waves patterns;
-it consciously attempts to replicate the wow factor given by Alcon and the games that transform and enlarge your vessel with add-ons. Xenon II undestands this and bring it to the extremes (the frame rate is also the extreme sacrifice it pays to do that);
-it tries to escape the simplicity of controls in a system dominated by single button joysticks. There are at least four weapons which require you to hold down the button to activate their use. among this, the placeable mines on screen and the remotely controlled "force" which puts the game up there with R-Type as far as controllable pods go;
-it's absolutely on time with the arcade trends of its era: it offers the biological setting and the store mechanics;
-it doesn't ask you to perform a Zangief's screw piledriver to fire up a smart bomb

Yep, Xenon 2 had a massive amount of good things going on in it's art direction and design. Problem is, these can come down to taste, if that wasn't the case, we wouldn't have this inexplicable love for Apidya.

It only gets irritating when someone starts to arm-wave their subjective view as carefully constructed argument. I would be happy to take an actual critical look at Xenon 2, with deeper analysis on how one could improve concept, shapes of the sprites, use of color, pixeling, and visual design. As well as level design, enemy attack wave design, difficulty balance.
Because There are areas there that could be improved, but it was still MASSIVELY above everything else back in the day when it got out, above most of the coin ops even.

Instead we get these "there is nothing good there except music", which feels more like deliberate troll post, just designed to rile up reactions.

[Turrican]

Just watch a youtube longplay for 30 seconds for each of the amiga games I listed for years 1988 and 1989. 30 seconds is what most of the times one is able to endure. That was the kind of gap.

[Turrican]

Interesting curio I stumbled across today: the ridiculous "in character" Review of Xenon 2 which gave the game a 100% score. I've mentioned this before because I remember reading it as an eleven-year-old and I have to say many a school-yard spat were resolved with the unconquerable retort of "Yeah, well it got 100%".

That's amusing, and the video too, until you realize that It says more about "game journalism" back then than about the game: the very same magazine awarded Battle Squadron 109% only five months later.

Time for another funny video, I guess