The Pinball Thread

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IA8SSQphytc Texas Chainsaw Massacre trailer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNtOXywZlk0 Looney Tunes trailer

Texas Chainsaw Massacre looks and sounds really cool. As great as it is that plenty of new pinball companies have cropped up in the 2010s, I'll probably never get to play most of the more obscure stuff in Germany... we mostly get Stern tables.

[m.sniffles.esq]

As great as it is that plenty of new pinball companies have cropped up in the 2010s, I'll probably never get to play most of the more obscure stuff in Germany... we mostly get Stern tables.

Unfortunately, the 'boutique' companies are squarely focused on the 'collector' market. Everything is 'limited' and the scarcity is directly proportional to the perceived value (also conditional, which is why very few--if any--of them end up in the hands of amusement rental companies. If your local bar has one, chances are, they own it)

While I understand dems the breaks with niche entertainments. At the same time, I kinda wish a couple of them would join forces and perhaps expand their scope beyond suburban basements.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

As great as it is that plenty of new pinball companies have cropped up in the 2010s, I'll probably never get to play most of the more obscure stuff in Germany... we mostly get Stern tables.

Unfortunately, the 'boutique' companies are squarely focused on the 'collector' market. Everything is 'limited' and the scarcity is directly proportional to the perceived value (also conditional, which is why very few--if any--of them end up in the hands of amusement rental companies. If your local bar has one, chances are, they own it)

While I understand dems the breaks with niche entertainments. At the same time, I kinda wish a couple of them would join forces and perhaps expand their scope beyond suburban basements.

Sure, and I'm not holding it against them, I'm really happy that a kind of pinball revival has been going on for quite a while now. Still, I'd really like to play the Halloween/ Ultraman and Texas Chainsaw tables... maybe I'll get to visit one of the big pinball conventions sometime, there's one in France. The wife loves France.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

System Shock is a brand new table being offered on the Pinball FX platform 2/15/2024. Zen is sure on a roll with it much improved Pinball M gaming platform compared it's previous older Pinball FX offerings.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Finally tried out System Shock out on Pinball FX for Switch and Pinball M for Steam Deck. On the U.S. Ninendo eShop site, System Shock pinball table d/l for Pinball FX is a mere $4.97 usd purchase fee. Wow, a full set of five flippers populates the System Shock pinball table itself. It's possible to score a cool million during the first skill shot and two million on the second skill shot (not sure how much is scored on the third skill shot though).

Spoiler

Looks quite impressive if playing with a Switch OLED setup or using an OLED monitor with Steam Deck in dock mode.

Was pleasantly surprised that I was able to d/l the Steam version of Pinball M's System Shock pinball table free of charge as a special gift.

Am ranked at #2 on the Switch leaderboards with the System Shock table and #402 on Steam leaderboards with same pinball table as well.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[PC Engine Fan X!]

The Texas Chainsaw Massacre pinball is finally out today, 6-06-2024, on both Steam and Nintendo Switch with the Pinball M platform with a listed $5.49 usd pricetag for each gaming platform respectively -- it plays just fine on a Steam Deck and on a 1st gen or Oled Switch setup. Leatherface is carrying a large and long chainsaw to use at unsuspecting victims based on director Tobe Hooper's classic 1974 cult classic horror film of TTCM. You can score a cool million on your first Skill Shot. I somehow scored a 11+ million score bonus during a "classic mode" gaming session of TTCM (and am not sure what triggers that particular bonus in the first place -- some more playing should answer that pressing question indeed). In two-ball mode, you certainly can rack up some serious points (assuming you keep both balls in play for the entire duration).

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I'm currently ranked at #135 on the Steam Pinball M leaderboards as 6-06-2024 and am ranked #3 on the Switch Pinball M leaderboards as of 6-07-24 with an overall score of 72,240,626 points in "Classic Mode" with the ace TTCM pinball table.
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Is quite a cool new Pinball M table worthy of your time -- am stoked to say Zen's new TTCM pinball game is quite a solid pinball game in it's own right (especially if you play in 3-Ball mode and continuously earn progressive jackpots over & over again + earn an extra ball or two in reserve to "keep your current ball in play for a longer duration" is, essentially key, to scoring higher scores in the long run/scheme of things/goals to strive/aim for). It's a given, folks.

Makes me wonder what other IP titles that developer Zen Studios are making/releasing next for it's Pinball M platform down the road. Zen has released TTCM on the Xbox Series S/X and on the PS4/5 consoles as well (as to not exclude any of the current major gaming console platforms and for maximum exposure to both casual & die-hard pinball fans worldwide).

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[m.sniffles.esq]

Figuring it was about a year, I re-investigated Xenotilt. I think last time I played, it was version .2 or something. Now, it's 1. something, so I guess we're in official release territory.

And, it's pretty much how I remembered it, just more so. 'More' being the operative word here, as it is firmly in the maximalism school.

It's still Demon's Tilt at it's core, with a few more things bolted on both vertically and horizontally. My past issues of lasers, neon, and fire obscuring the ball have been tripled down. It's now not so much as the ball is often hard to see, but impossible. So I guess it's 100% intentional. Jeff Minter pinball, if you will. Like the Minter games, all these effects look really cool, but if you're someone who insists on constant visual clarity, you will be driven insane.

The physics still feel a bit wonky to me, but they didn't bother me as much as they did a year ago. The ball still feels a little weightless, and like it's being pushed through water when you flip, only to ricochet and seem like it's jet-powered. But these shifts don't seem as drastic.

Still, it's a bit of a hard sell if you already own Demon's Tilt, as you pretty much already bought the game once. That said, if you didn't buy Demon's Tilt, I'd actually recommend Xenotilt over it. Not being chained to the whole 'faux-16 bit' allows it to take advantage of all the bells and whistles of a modern title instead of banking on nostalgia (the problem with that being, it's making the player nostalgic for--frankly--a better game). But besides that, I think Xenotilt plays/feels a bit better overall.

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Second order of the day: Can someone who has taken the plunge with nu-PinballFX give an assessment of it's 'nu' offerings? Initially, I (like a whole bunch of other people) was turned off that Zen was asking me to just buy a bunch of tables I already owned for improved window dressing (not to mention the various jive things Zen pulled leading up to this event). But now that they have a bank of tables outside of 3's offerings. are any of them worthwhile? Good, even?

It's hard to gauge, because with all the "Fuck Zen" people, you just have a lot of people try to offset these feelings with "Your loss, asshole. PinballFX is the BESTIST EVAH" and it's difficult to discern any honest assessment of the tables.

[it290]

Xenotilt is also way superior to Demon's. It's still pretty exploitable in some spots but the threat of draining is much more constant in general. I'm a fairly mediocre player and when I was playing Demon's frequently my average game time was getting up to around 45 minutes, which is just too long for a game of pinball. A typical Xeno sessions has me draining much more quickly.

[Daytime Waitress]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I'm an even worse player, but Demon's had me getting into comparatively long stretches, provided I could keep it out of tier-1 with those - to me - very aggressive zako spawns right above the flippers. It felt like they've flipped (heh!) that combativeness for Xeno, with tier-3 now being something I can't spend long periods of time alive in, yet I can piddle about in t-1/t-2 with virtual impunity.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Xeno is very fond of having things on the 3rd-4th tier that absolutely launch the ball sdtm through every tier. So one can go from smacking the woman in the face to an out quicker than you can say Jack Robinson.

Anecdotally, I have this co-worker who's always talking about her placement in this or that tournament. So, seeing that she considers herself a bit of a 'serious' player, I was kind of interested in what she would think of it. First, she never played Demon's, and when I told her it was a faux-16 bit deal, she responded "well, this one is just faux-playstation which is actually the new thing", which I guess is true (well, the playstation part, I don't know if it's a 'thing'). She... wasn't impressed. Like at all. "You just randomly smack the ball around and shit happens, there's not even a rule set". When I pointed out there were objectives, she rolled her eyes. "Yeah, spell this and that. Spell it where? You can't even see the whole deck and there's just shit all over the place." Also being able to cradle with secondary flippers seemed to anger her for some reason. Her final analysis was "it's pretend pinball for people who can't play pinball. It's like a phone game"

Oof...

[Daytime Waitress]

I dunno, man. Growing up with Kirby's Pinball Land and Revenge of the Gator (and none of the Naxat games at the time, though I became pretty damn enamoured of them once I found emulation), I always retained a fondness for Vidya Gaem Pinball: warping to other tables, having more stuff spawn in than would realistically be possible with physical toys - y'know, actually taking advantage of the medium to do stuff that can't be done in real life?

I love that modern engines like Visual Pinball, Zaccaria and Zen can try and replicate actual physics, but sometimes I just want to slice a dragon's face off with well-timed pinball shots. And that's exactly what Wiznwar's stuff hearkens back to, whilst adding - as you said - more. I don't think it's ever going to replace those older titles for me, and I can see folks completely bouncing off the visual intensity of it all, but I'm pretty damn happy that at least one person on the planet is continuing to work within those parameters.

And yeah, some people with only IRL pinball as a reference point might not jive with it, like your acquaintance there.
But I'm sure actual fighter pilots would think that SDOJ's handling is a bunch of bullshit, too

[m.sniffles.esq]

I was just sorta curious since she's always going on about her league, tournament, etc. And when she was saying that she never played Devil's/Demon, Sonic Spinball, or really any of the video pinball titles, it made me even more curious.

It turns out that she's a purist, I suppose.

(she is also one of those people who seems to fancy herself as a 'non-traditionalist', yet seems incredibly narrow-minded and judgemental about which non-traditional fare she deems acceptable)

(although, I have to admit I did find how angry the whole endeavor seemed to make her to be pretty amusing. "This defiles the holy tabernacle of PINBALL. It is a SCOURGE!")

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Edit: I just opened Steam and there's a notification from the Xenotilt dev saying they will be raising the price in the new year (I take it they're giving this notification to people that already own it so they make posts like these). Of course, Steam will be running their twice-a-year 'students are on break and bored' sale in a couple weeks, so if you're interested, probably wait to see when/if it's discounted for that, but before 2025.

[Lander]

when I told her it was a faux-16 bit deal, she responded "well, this one is just faux-playstation which is actually the new thing", which I guess is true (well, the playstation part, I don't know if it's a 'thing')

Kind of - between things like Bloodborne Demake, the Haunted PS1 horror jam, and weird unfiction like Petscop and Catastrophe Crow, the faux-retro scene is gradually slidewalking toward 'next gen'. Cynical kart racer tie-in fads and all, if we consider Bloodborne Kart!

The PS2 renaissance should be good, though I wonder if the movement will still have legs once it reaches the grey-brown off-the-shelf-hardware era.

"This defiles the holy tabernacle of PINBALL. It is a SCOURGE!"

Underrated word, Tabernacle. Almost sounds like some UK portmanteau for genitalia.

[it290]

I was just sorta curious since she's always going on about her league, tournament, etc. And when she was saying that she never played Devil's/Demon, Sonic Spinball, or really any of the video pinball titles, it made me even more curious.

It turns out that she's a purist, I suppose.

I mean to be fair, video game pinball and real pinball are incredibly different things, even with supposed sims like Zen, but especially with the likes of Xeno — real world physics is just not something that can feasibly simulated to a high degree of accuracy at today's level of realtime computing fidelity, to say nothing of the physical feedback and interaction with the table itself. Crush-likes are their own unique subgenre even and lean harder into 'videogame with pinball ruleset' with stuff like the crazy tilt action, laser beams and bullet hail, etc. I love it but I can definitely understand not being that into it as a serious pinball player! I only own one real table myself but I definitely do not go to Xenotilt when I want to slake the feeling of playing a real pin.

Also, humblebrag but my super-obsessive but 'non-gamer' friend (as in he plays games incredibly obsessively but doesn't really research them or participate in the culture at all) recently hit #1 on the Xeno leaderboards after I introduced him to the game a little under a year or so ago. He did the same with Huntdown after I turned him on to that game . What should I have him play next?

[BIL]

Also, humblebrag but my super-obsessive but 'non-gamer' friend (as in he plays games incredibly obsessively but doesn't really research them or participate in the culture at all) recently hit #1 on the Xeno leaderboards after I introduced him to the game a little under a year or so ago. He did the same with Huntdown after I turned him on to that game . What should I have him play next?

GNG Resurrection; for added fun, tell him it's a long-overdue port of the 2000 Naomi classic.

[m.sniffles.esq]

I mean to be fair, video game pinball and real pinball are incredibly different things

I understand this, but I was expecting a reaction more along the lines of 'this is kinda neat' or 'I don't really like this', and not seemingly complete vitriol. I wonder what she thought of those Williams video hybrid machines?

(speaking of which, I wish I had room, because I'm sure you could probably get one at auction for like $200 shipped. Everyone seemed to hate those, but I always thought they were kinda cool... Or is there nostalgia for those now?)

[BrianC]

Much of the hate towards Pinball 2000 is from the Star Wars Episode I pin, which is meh (mainly because the developer had his hands tied by Lucasfilm). Revenge from Mars is awesome and definitely worth checking out.

[it290]

Also, humblebrag but my super-obsessive but 'non-gamer' friend (as in he plays games incredibly obsessively but doesn't really research them or participate in the culture at all) recently hit #1 on the Xeno leaderboards after I introduced him to the game a little under a year or so ago. He did the same with Huntdown after I turned him on to that game . What should I have him play next?

GNG Resurrection; for added fun, tell him it's a long-overdue port of the 2000 Naomi classic.

Haha, he actually did ask for my opinion on that game (which I haven't played). Perhaps I should...

[it290]

I mean to be fair, video game pinball and real pinball are incredibly different things

I understand this, but I was expecting a reaction more along the lines of 'this is kinda neat' or 'I don't really like this', and not seemingly complete vitriol. I wonder what she thought of those Williams video hybrid machines?

(speaking of which, I wish I had room, because I'm sure you could probably get one at auction for like $200 shipped. Everyone seemed to hate those, but I always thought they were kinda cool... Or is there nostalgia for those now?)

Oh my dude, the pinball market has gone insane since COVID. Those games go for $3500 or so these days which is still cheap compared to a lot of tables. I'm lucky to have picked up my humble Taxi machine for $1400 about ten years ago.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Oh my dude, the pinball market has gone insane since COVID. Those games go for $3500 or so these days which is still cheap compared to a lot of tables. I'm lucky to have picked up my humble Taxi machine for $1400 about ten years ago.

And to think, I gave away the last table I owned...

Much of the hate towards Pinball 2000 is from the Star Wars Episode I pin, which is meh (mainly because the developer had his hands tied by Lucasfilm). Revenge from Mars is awesome and definitely worth checking out.

Hmmm... Granted it's been awhile, but I remember them being kinda exactly the same, just with different shit on the screen.

Their hatred seemed to come from a two-pronged attack. The first was that half the deck was a reflection of a video screen, and this upset people for some reason (I guess 'physical toys that break and make the ball get stuck = awesome!' but 'virtual toys that don't break and don't get jammed = lame').

The second source of hatred was that Williams bankrupted themselves producing these hated things, leaving only Stern (which if 'physical toys that break and make the ball get stuck = awesome!' then Stern should make the most awesome tables in the history of pinball...). So, not only were they a reviled concept, but they were a reviled concept that killed a beloved company.

I was working at a bar that ended up having both video hybrids, and at least every other shift someone would whine "I can believe you got rid of Twilight Zone/Theater of Magic/Whatever for this piece of shit". But what they failed to understand is that a Twilight Zone table that's busted 65% of the time doesn't exactly rake in the loot.

[BrianC]

Hmmm... Granted it's been awhile, but I remember them being kinda exactly the same, just with different shit on the screen.

They aren't exactly the same (though a conversion kit was available to change Revenge from Mars to Phantom Menace). The playfield and rulesets are different.

[m.sniffles.esq]

They aren't exactly the same (though a conversion kit was available to change Revenge from Mars to Phantom Menace). The playfield and rulesets are different.

Yeah, obviously there isn't like darth mauls and jar jars of the mars playfield. But the layouts were pretty much the same.

I just remember having a Star Wars initially, then it getting swapped out with mars, and everyone being "this is exactly the same table with different graphics (and I still hate it)"

[BIL]

Also, humblebrag but my super-obsessive but 'non-gamer' friend (as in he plays games incredibly obsessively but doesn't really research them or participate in the culture at all) recently hit #1 on the Xeno leaderboards after I introduced him to the game a little under a year or so ago. He did the same with Huntdown after I turned him on to that game . What should I have him play next?

GNG Resurrection; for added fun, tell him it's a long-overdue port of the 2000 Naomi classic.

Haha, he actually did ask for my opinion on that game (which I haven't played). Perhaps I should...

Highest recommendation. Fujiwara and his team gave it 200%. I sat out for a year, dreading a cheap Kaizo parody with his name slapped on. Took the blessing of several esteemed vets to shift me. It not only plays like a lost Naomi sequel, it even looks like one.

SKELETON MURDERER IS BACK AGAIN

As evilly calculated and colourful as ever. I swear the controls and collision are even tighter than the 2D games'. While I'll always champion Dai's focus, as a deft sidestep into Demon's Blazon longform, Kaettekita is happily welcome in my desert island suitcase.

[BrianC]

They aren't exactly the same (though a conversion kit was available to change Revenge from Mars to Phantom Menace). The playfield and rulesets are different.

Yeah, obviously there isn't like darth mauls and jar jars of the mars playfield. But the layouts were pretty much the same.

I just remember having a Star Wars initially, then it getting swapped out with mars, and everyone being "this is exactly the same table with different graphics (and I still hate it)"

I compared the layouts. They are similar, but the ramps, targets, bumpers, and holes are in different places. They aren't even from the same designer. Episode I doesn't use the same ruleset with different characters, the rules are different! This is the first time I heard anyone claim that the tables are exactly the same (they aren't). Not to mention the disparate reviews on places like IPDB without a single mention of them sharing layout or ruleset (because they don't).

Star Wars Episode I
Revenge from Mars

[m.sniffles.esq]

So you're saying Star Wars will only go for $3400?

[m.sniffles.esq]

Of course, Steam will be running their twice-a-year 'students are on break and bored' sale in a couple weeks, so if you're interested, probably wait to see when/if it's discounted for that, but before 2025.

Because I can see into the future, Xenotilt is currently $3 off. So if you think you maybe want it, now would be the time to pounce.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

So you're saying Star Wars will only go for $3400?

At the August 1999 3rd annual California Extreme show held at the former original location of the very first Chuck E. Cheese's Pizza Time Theater (the actual retail space inside it was unbelievably huge) in the Frontier Town shopping center (located across the street from the world-famous Winchester Mystery Mansion) of San Jose, CA, Williams had brought in two prototype Pinball 2000 pins of Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace set on "Free Play." I got to try them both out. They were both for sale through Williams at the '99 CAX show priced at $4,400 usd each.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Austin]

The second source of hatred was that Williams bankrupted themselves producing these hated things, leaving only Stern (which if 'physical toys that break and make the ball get stuck = awesome!' then Stern should make the most awesome tables in the history of pinball...). So, not only were they a reviled concept, but they were a reviled concept that killed a beloved company.

They did not "bankrupt themselves". On the contrary, the Pinball 2000 line was doing better sales numbers than any set of machines they had made in years. The issue was that they didn't do as well as they wanted, with their gambling machines doing infinitely better in comparison. Upper management saw pinball as dead weight and shut it down to focus on the far more lucrative gambling market. Watch the documentary, "Tilt: The Battle To Save Pinball". It's fantastic and puts the end of Williams Pinball into perspective.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Sorry, I was going to say:
"spent way to much money developing and producing vs what they sold as they were generally disliked. Therefore they shut down pinball operations due to it having no more money and it was dragging the entire company into a fiscal bog from which they would never escape, and pivoted towards more fruitful endeavors" or copy/paste the entire wikipedia entry, but I thought "bankrupted themselves" got the general point across

I guess if I was really concerned with brevity, I should have just said "People hated them for various reasons, and were real fucking annoying about it". my bad

Pedantic posts about minutia that ultimately doesn't matter = old school sys11. Into it

[Austin]

Sorry, I was going to say:
"spent way to much money developing and producing vs what they sold as they were generally disliked. Therefore they shut down pinball operations due to it having no more money and it was dragging the entire company into a fiscal bog from which they would never escape, and pivoted towards more fruitful endeavors" or copy/paste the entire wikipedia entry, but I thought "bankrupted themselves" got the general point across

I guess if I was really concerned with brevity, I should have just said "People hated them for various reasons, and were real fucking annoying about it". my bad

Pedantic posts about minutia that ultimately doesn't matter = old school sys11. Into it

That is still mostly false information with a lot of assumptions that have been debunked by the people that actually created these games.