Shmup Ticker: What are you playing RIGHT NOW?

[To Far Away Times]

Even then, I've never understood why many people say [Espgaluda] is "Easy", sure it's easy compared to many other Cave titles but the later part of Stage 5 all the way to the very final boss has been way too much of an ordeal for me, extremely discouraging.

It's pretty easy for an arcade clear in a relative sense I think is the general meaning. You get a lot of resources and freedom how to use them, the score 1ups and the 1up in stage 3 don't require much effort to obtain, patterns aren't particularly brutal in terms of speed, and so on. It's a difficult game as expected of an arcade shmup, but not relative to other real monsters out there where you've got high bullet speeds, gargantuan hitbox sizes, etc.

Couple things to consider:

1) You get a ton of resources on your first life if you know how to max out the overmode gauge. The best place to do this seems to be the last phase of the Stage 1 boss. It'll last until you die, at which point it's too risky to recharge. Maxing out the overmode meter makes it more dangerous if you're prone to suddenly running out of gems, but if you keep a close eye on that you get a large number of extra green gems by being at a higher overmode level, so it pays off for survival and scoring.

2) Tateha, contrary to what you'd expect as the spreadshot character, is stronger in this game. Her laser damage in normal mode is noticeably higher than Ageha's, thanks to those two piercing shots doing a lot of damage. Her kakusei is about even in strength but is harder to use, but you still can use the laser during it to dodge otherwise tough attacks if need be.

I beat Espgaluda three days after I first played it - faster than any other CAVE game I've been able to 1CC.

In fact, it's the only CAVE game I've ever been able to no miss up until stage 5. It really is a touch easier than other CAVE games. But the ending boss is very challenging. I would recommend dropping some save states there and really practicing that section to learn how to get through it using your resources.

Overall, it can be an easier clear than Deathsmiles or Mushi Futari Black Label, because it's milder for 90% of the run time, but the final section will take some focused practice that you may not have to do in the aforementioned games.

[Lemnear]

I'm in a two-way spiral between Ketsui and DOJ, alternating between them and gradually completing the arrangements. Is it just me or is it easier to slip through the bullets in Ketsui than in DOJ?
Anyway, I'm finding the normal Labels easier than the Arrange-EX, in Arrange-EX sometimes I lose control of the screen (some parts in Stage 3, and Stage 4 especially)... and some boss attacks seem impossible to get past, I just can't see the opening to get through.
I don't remember which Label Version it was in, but it made me select not only between "Old/New" version but also the Round, if 1 or 2, I assume Round 2 is Loop 2? But when I tried it it didn't have the amount of bullets of the Arrange-Ex.

I need something to break from CAVE, something to alternate between these two, that is both mechanically and visually less... dense (but not boring). Something simple, even if difficult, doesn't matter, but too much CAVE is making my brain boil.

However I have seen Ketsui 1CC runs by Jaylab, Jaimers, Electric Underground, Magolor9000, etc., and they all zig-zag the infamous Boss 2 "Sphinx" attack...but why do such a complicated maneuver when you can actually get past it by simply going straight?



I can do it every time with both the Tiger Schwert and Panzer Jager
Paradoxically I only know how to do it like this and I don't know how to zigzag through it.

[Steven]

Fuck me I will never be able to do that bullet hell dodging crap at all. Just seeing that makes my brain hurt... but I'm also kind of playing Crimzon Clover arcade mode right now for some reason even though I should be playing Same! Same! Same! instead. Every time I play bullet hell two things invariably occur: I'll get hit and wonder how the hell I got hit when I thought I was completely safe, but I will also somehow flail through a mess of shit and not die and wonder how the fuck I didn't die even though I feel like I should have.

Anyway,

I don't remember which Label Version it was in, but it made me select not only between "Old/New" version but also the Round, if 1 or 2, I assume Round 2 is Loop 2? But when I tried it it didn't have the amount of bullets of the Arrange-Ex.

Black Label. Old is regular Daioujou and New is Black Label. In Black Label, 1 round = you only play loop 1, but I think Hibachi can appear on loop 1 if you choose this if you meet the requirements, although I don't know what they are. 2 round = you can play loop 2 if you are able to meet the requirements. I think Arrange EX is apparently a moderately easier version of loop 2 or whatever. Don't know the specifics but it's something like that.

I need something to break from CAVE, something to alternate between these two, that is both mechanically and visually less... dense (but not boring). Something simple, even if difficult, doesn't matter, but too much CAVE is making my brain boil.

Kyuukyoku Tiger

[Lemnear]

Fuck me I will never be able to do that bullet hell dodging crap at all. Just seeing that makes my brain hurt... but I'm also kind of playing Crimzon Clover arcade mode right now for some reason even though I should be playing Same! Same! Same! instead. Every time I play bullet hell two things invariably occur: I'll get hit and wonder how the hell I got hit when I thought I was completely safe, but I will also somehow flail through a mess of shit and not die and wonder how the fuck I didn't die even though I feel like I should have.

With Ketsui it doesn't happen to me for example but with DOJ it does, it seems like the hitbox is slightly bigger.

Anyway,
Black Label. Old is regular Daioujou and New is Black Label. In Black Label, 1 round = you only play loop 1, but I think Hibachi can appear on loop 1 if you choose this if you meet the requirements, although I don't know what they are. 2 round = you can play loop 2 if you are able to meet the requirements. I think Arrange EX is apparently a moderately easier version of loop 2 or whatever. Don't know the specifics but it's something like that.

WTF? easier? I don't think I've EVER avoided the first attack of the second boss in EX version...just saying..there's definitely 1 pixel to pass through in the middle but I can't see it. Same with a specific attack of boss 3.

Kyuukyoku Tiger

I was also fine with something even simpler, imagine that ahah, like Xevious. In fact, there's a historical period that I haven't explored that much, like 1983-1989, and i should.


I think I still have trouble with micro-dodging, or tap-dodging with due precision, while I do great with bullet herding and macro-dodging.
With grazing only in Ketsui/Batsugun it seems...

[Lethe]

Fuck me I will never be able to do that bullet hell dodging crap at all. Just seeing that makes my brain hurt... but I'm also kind of playing Crimzon Clover arcade mode right now for some reason even though I should be playing Same! Same! Same! instead. Every time I play bullet hell two things invariably occur: I'll get hit and wonder how the hell I got hit when I thought I was completely safe, but I will also somehow flail through a mess of shit and not die and wonder how the fuck I didn't die even though I feel like I should have.

Have you tried CC Boost? It's much more intuitive to play in a pragmatic way than Original, most bullets are aimed and you just bomb when things seem too scary like any other game.
It's not a game you should be flailing around much in either way. Getting close to bullets is always dangerous outside of delineated patterns, and you want to be making calculated snappy movements pretty much all the time. Very different to Cave games.
Arrange Boost is also entertaining.

[Steven]

Black Label. Old is regular Daioujou and New is Black Label. In Black Label, 1 round = you only play loop 1, but I think Hibachi can appear on loop 1 if you choose this if you meet the requirements, although I don't know what they are. 2 round = you can play loop 2 if you are able to meet the requirements. I think Arrange EX is apparently a moderately easier version of loop 2 or whatever. Don't know the specifics but it's something like that.

WTF? easier? I don't think I've EVER avoided the first attack of the second boss in EX version...just saying..there's definitely 1 pixel to pass through in the middle but I can't see it. Same with a specific attack of boss 3.

Yep, easier. Probably way easier, judging by the stuff that Jaimers wrote in his replay's description, but only for survival. Scoring is still extremely difficult.

I was also fine with something even simpler, imagine that ahah, like Xevious. In fact, there's a historical period that I haven't explored that much, like 1983-1989, and i should.

There's always Hishouzame, Fighting Hawk, Tiger-Heli, and similar games, which are probably even simpler than Xevious since Xevious has two planes with an anti-air attack and an anti-ground attack. These games have only one weapon and a bomb, or some rad homing missiles in the case of Fighting Hawk. If you want something unique, try Halley's Comet. Image Fight is also really cool and good.

When in doubt, BIL's awesome list is awesome. Seriously that thing needs a sticky because it's super useful. Mods, sticky it please~

Have you tried CC Boost? It's much more intuitive to play in a pragmatic way than Original, most bullets are aimed and you just bomb when things seem too scary like any other game.
It's not a game you should be flailing around much in either way. Getting close to bullets is always dangerous outside of delineated patterns, and you want to be making calculated snappy movements pretty much all the time. Very different to Cave games.
Arrange Boost is also entertaining.

I have now that you told me to do so! It reminds me of Same! Same! Same! in that the bullets become crazy fast! I think I like it. It's so weird to constantly be in break mode like that, but it's equally weird to not have double break. I'll probably mess around with this mode a bit, as well as Arrange Original (game overed at TLB on my first attempt today) and Arrange Boost (not played yet I think).

I do get the feeling that Crimzon Clover wants the player to macrododge instead of micrododging. That's good because I am extremely uncomfortable with micrododging. Might be because I almost never play anything that was made after 1992. I'd like to get the arcade mode clear eventually, as it's one of the few bullet hell games besides Saidaioujou that I actually enjoy playing. Why? I honestly don't know. I just like those two for some reason.

[Lander]

I need something to break from CAVE, something to alternate between these two, that is both mechanically and visually less... dense (but not boring). Something simple, even if difficult, doesn't matter, but too much CAVE is making my brain boil.

Cho Ren Sha fairly modern, but deeply fundamental, and easily less of a mind mangler than CAVE at full bore. Lovely game.

Or, Slap Fight / Alcon, if older school is the ticket. It's devious, in a pleasant kind of way. Not so much steal your coin, as replying 'you never asked!' when questioned on its myriad secret ways for the player to get ahead.

[locoBro1196]

Even then, I've never understood why many people say [Espgaluda] is "Easy", sure it's easy compared to many other Cave titles but the later part of Stage 5 all the way to the very final boss has been way too much of an ordeal for me, extremely discouraging.

It's pretty easy for an arcade clear in a relative sense I think is the general meaning. You get a lot of resources and freedom how to use them, the score 1ups and the 1up in stage 3 don't require much effort to obtain, patterns aren't particularly brutal in terms of speed, and so on. It's a difficult game as expected of an arcade shmup, but not relative to other real monsters out there where you've got high bullet speeds, gargantuan hitbox sizes, etc.

Couple things to consider:

1) You get a ton of resources on your first life if you know how to max out the overmode gauge. The best place to do this seems to be the last phase of the Stage 1 boss. It'll last until you die, at which point it's too risky to recharge. Maxing out the overmode meter makes it more dangerous if you're prone to suddenly running out of gems, but if you keep a close eye on that you get a large number of extra green gems by being at a higher overmode level, so it pays off for survival and scoring.

2) Tateha, contrary to what you'd expect as the spreadshot character, is stronger in this game. Her laser damage in normal mode is noticeably higher than Ageha's, thanks to those two piercing shots doing a lot of damage. Her kakusei is about even in strength but is harder to use, but you still can use the laser during it to dodge otherwise tough attacks if need be.

I beat Espgaluda three days after I first played it - faster than any other CAVE game I've been able to 1CC.

In fact, it's the only CAVE game I've ever been able to no miss up until stage 5. It really is a touch easier than other CAVE games. But the ending boss is very challenging. I would recommend dropping some save states there and really practicing that section to learn how to get through it using your resources.

Overall, it can be an easier clear than Deathsmiles or Mushi Futari Black Label, because it's milder for 90% of the run time, but the final section will take some focused practice that you may not have to do in the aforementioned games.

Thank you both, your comments served as encouragement for me to plow forward and I was just able to get the 1cc. Once I was able to consistently make it no-miss to stage 5 and score high enough to get both extends (plus the secret life in stage 3), it's pretty easy to get to the end of the game.

[Lemnear]

Yep, easier. Probably way easier, judging by the stuff that Jaimers wrote in his replay's description, but only for survival. Scoring is still extremely difficult.

mmm....I should take a look at the Arrange-EX runs. I prefer to have fewer lives available but more "possible" patterns.
With Ketsui instead I have a lot of faith, but above all, "Determination" .

There's always Hishouzame, Fighting Hawk, Tiger-Heli, and similar games, which are probably even simpler than Xevious since Xevious has two planes with an anti-air attack and an anti-ground attack. These games have only one weapon and a bomb, or some rad homing missiles in the case of Fighting Hawk. If you want something unique, try Halley's Comet. Image Fight is also really cool and good.
When in doubt, BIL's awesome list is awesome. Seriously that thing needs a sticky because it's super useful. Mods, sticky it please~

I tried Hishousame, I like the design, but especially the music! But damn at some point every enemy is a sniper!
I thought that Micro-Dodging was something more "old-school" considering that the bullets are faster in older games...
Think that... I took Raiden III x Mikado Maniax to learn Micro-Dodging, also because the plane is so slow that you can't do anything else haha, and I still haven't finished it with 1CC, maybe it slightly exceeds my reflexes :'(
I wanted to complete the series (IV x Mikado, Nova, Fighters Collection Remix etc.) then I saw the patterns of the last bosses in Fighters 1/2/Jet and... damn they are impossible!
It also looks like a kind of Strikers 1945 but with nicer graphics.

PS: Image Fight is ALWAYS on the list , but until I get the Hori Octa Commander I can't play the ACA or Ratalaika portings as I would like, the one I use now (Saturn Style PowerA) doesn't have the touchpad for the menus!
Luckily for ALL the other games you don't need the touchpad

I need something to break from CAVE, something to alternate between these two, that is both mechanically and visually less... dense (but not boring). Something simple, even if difficult, doesn't matter, but too much CAVE is making my brain boil.

Cho Ren Sha fairly modern, but deeply fundamental, and easily less of a mind mangler than CAVE at full bore. Lovely game.

Or, Slap Fight / Alcon, if older school is the ticket. It's devious, in a pleasant kind of way. Not so much steal your coin, as replying 'you never asked!' when questioned on its myriad secret ways for the player to get ahead.

Cho Ren Sha was one of the first ones I took and played! A year ago.

Slap Fight / Alcon, I tried the MD version after the leak-rumor about Ratalaika's porting (along with Grind Stormer / V-V always for MD).
Damn I loved Slap Fight! from the design to the game itself, not even too punishing in the end except for the final boss (is that kind of computer right?).
I can't wait for it to come out
Grind Stormer was nice up to a certain point, the closer you get to the end the more it goes from "fun" to "frustrating"... but aesthetically it's psychedelic!
It's one of the Toaplan games that I liked the most along with Batsugun [one day Steven will explain to me what's so wrong with that game ]

[Lander]

Cho Ren Sha was one of the first ones I took and played! A year ago.

Slap Fight / Alcon, I tried the MD version after the leak-rumor about Ratalaika's porting (along with Grind Stormer / V-V always for MD).
Damn I loved Slap Fight! from the design to the game itself, not even too punishing in the end except for the final boss (is that kind of computer right?).
I can't wait for it to come out
Grind Stormer was nice up to a certain point, the closer you get to the end the more it goes from "fun" to "frustrating"... but aesthetically it's psychedelic!
It's one of the Toaplan games that I liked the most along with Batsugun [one day Steven will explain to me what's so wrong with that game ]

Drat, my well of lazy recommends runneth low I've always been partial to the full-vert arcade version of Slap Fight, even if more view = more getting shot. Though can't deny, that MD arrange is a real work of art.

Perhaps Omega Fighter if you've not tried that - an innovative david vs. goliath game-from-the-future released in '89, with an easier and wilder Special arrange that acts as a comfy on-ramp.

Not tried Grind Stormer myself - surprising, I thought I'd been through all of Toaplan's futurey stuff! Pleasing look to it, seems like a gritty forerunner to the DDP style in a way, with signature Tatsujinian shotgun blasts and fast bullets.

[To Far Away Times]

I need something to break from CAVE, something to alternate between these two, that is both mechanically and visually less... dense (but not boring). Something simple, even if difficult, doesn't matter, but too much CAVE is making my brain boil.

Cho Ren Sha fairly modern, but deeply fundamental, and easily less of a mind mangler than CAVE at full bore. Lovely game.

Cho Ren Sha is one of the GOATs.

It occupies a very interesting space, its not really a bullet hell or a manic shooter, but kind of in between both of those styles. CRS 68K does mid size and large enemies better than just about any other shmup. It has such an enjoyable rhythm to it. It's hard to put into words, but the level design is polished as fuck. It's difficulty level is also very nicely tuned. Really an immaculately designed game. OST is unbelievably good too.

[Lemnear]

Not tried Grind Stormer myself - surprising, I thought I'd been through all of Toaplan's futurey stuff! Pleasing look to it, seems like a gritty forerunner to the DDP style in a way, with signature Tatsujinian shotgun blasts and fast bullets.

Perfect description of the game basically.

It occupies a very interesting space, its not really a bullet hell or a manic shooter, but kind of in between both of those styles. CRS 68K does mid size and large enemies better than just about any other shmup. It has such an enjoyable rhythm to it. It's hard to put into words, but the level design is polished as fuck. It's difficulty level is also very nicely tuned. Really an immaculately designed game. OST is unbelievably good too.

It's a niche that I'm desperately looking for, too bad I started a year ago with Batsugun and Cho Ren Sha 68K...and so the niche ended ahah.
Before then I had only played a few SHMUPS here and there.

[Lander]

Apropos of a certain radical III+IV intro clip, I dove headfirst into Gradius V this afternoon.

Jesus. I had this back in the day, along with R-Type Final - the greatest shmup tag team ever found on the same supermarket bargain rack - but never got far, or had the context to understand what Treasure had achieved. Too busy mourning the loss of my beloved Ripple Laser, if I remember right!

It feels like a proper evolution; take the series' established ideas, expand on them in a cerebral way, and fix associated sharp edges without trivializing or oversimplifying anything.

Recoverable options - Great. Puts paid to Gradius Syndrome without taking loss entirely off the table, leaving room to build back up to full missiles + laser + shield, and encourages the player to leave some recovery space on the left edge - i.e. aggress harder.
Granular Speed Up - Interesting. The classic entries I've played tend to center around two will do, but flattening out the curve and making it denser nicely highlights its interaction with option spacing.
Points from power capsules - Also great, since it pushes away from powerup avoidance and into agressive bar freewheeling once you're maxed out - I think this may have come in before V, though I know Advance didn't have it.
Option control button - Crown jewel. If we take Gradius as a design masterwork of its time, Type I is the resurgence of that idea. So much room for smart play, with a tough enough baseline to push you into using it.

Singular gripe: That one early unskippable cutscene. Nicely solved with an emulated fast-forward button, but a bit glaring given how thoughtfully designed everything else is. Cursor memory in every menu for smooth repetition, but not this? Eh.

At the time, I remember enjoying Final's generous breadth more, but this is a real tour de force of a sequel

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Yoo busy mourning the loss of my beloved Ripple Laser, if I remember right!

Keep playing and you'll find it. Ripple's one of my fave weapons in Gradius V.

Spoiler

Beat the game's first loop using any number of continues and you unlock Weapon Edit which has a ton of extra weapon types not seen in the default 4 shot types.

I enjoy the game a lot, but the unskippable cutscenes are a nuisance. I wish it had a slow/focus button for movement. You can actually move slowly if you tilt the analog stick forward slightly, but playing on a D-Pad or arcade stick means you lose this ability.

[Lander]

More Gradius V - reached St4 and got to the Bacterian Cell boss before dropping my last coin. Game doesn't mess around, that fleshwall has to be one of the most aggressive I've seen from the series. Damn near ate two credits all by itself!

Managed to extend halfway through St2, which was nice - I'm getting more of a hang on option-strafe strategies now. Much more mechanically intensive than classical Gradius, but I love it.

In fact, it's crystallized a certain parallel to R-Type that's been knocking around in my head a while. Gradius has always felt like its dual in a sense - both series are ostensibly about having your invincible skivvie do all the dangerous work while you fly safe - but the addition of a control button really hammers it home.

I dig the way certain bosses detect that you're flying like a hotshot and punish accordingly, too makes it feel very push-pull and reactive; the first entrant in the St2 boss parade has that missile fan you can slip through, and he does not like it when you abuse it!

Keep playing and you'll find it. Ripple's one of my fave weapons in Gradius V.

Ah, pleasing! It's always nice to encounter an older (ish) console STG with meaningful unlocks. Art galleries only go so far, y'know?
I've a nagging sense that I found that out back in the day, but was too hopeless to actually earn it

[BareKnuckleRoo]

In fact, it's crystallized a certain parallel to R-Type that's been knocking around in my head a while. Gradius has always felt like its dual in a sense - both series are ostensibly about having your invincible skivvie do all the dangerous work while you fly safe - but the addition of a control button really hammers it home.

The Multiple control button really does wonders for the game. It also makes Type 1 generally the best due of the defaults due to sheer versatility as you can move them as you please. I never enjoyed Type 3's spread but thin laser setup. Type 2 isn't bad as both it and Type 4 fire continuous lasers which is quite handy, but I tend to lean more towards Type 4's easier handling.

Weapon Edit is a guaranteed unlock eventually... the more hours you put in, the more credits you get until you get the Free Play option, which you can use to beat the game if you like. The Weapon Edit mode is amazing and has a bonkers number of extra missile, double, laser, and shield types from elsewhere in the series. No new Multiple control types but that's fine:

• Spread Bombs deal absurd damage if you overlap your Multiples on a boss core, and works well with Ripple's coverage. The blasts cause visibility issues in tight spaces though. Worth it if you want to DPS bosses down without using a difficult to use laser type such as E. Laser or Fire Blaster.

• Ripple has reduced damage but absolutely bonkers coverage. If you enjoy filling the screen with shots, this is your weapon. Works decently on bosses, but reduced power compared to the standard Laser does hurt it a bit there. However, use it with Spread Bomb and its DPS suddenly is back up to being quite decent on bosses!

• E. Laser is extremely awkward to use in stages as it fires slowly, but it's a charge shot weapon so that's to be expected. In exchange, a fully charged shot with several Multiples hitting a core will literally one-shot most of the bosses in the game. It is hilarious seeing a boss's core go poof in one blast. Look up footage of E. Laser players melting bosses for a laugh. Does not work so well on the Stage 4 boss which requires shooting it to expose its weakpoint briefly, but doesn't allow you to fire a full charge shot before the weakpoint disappears.

• Fire Blaster is super short ranged but has a constant stream of damage that's well above a normal laser's damage. Its kill time on bosses isn't quite that of E. Laser but it performs far better in most stages once you handle the short range with something like Freeze Multiples.

• Mega Crush lets you simply blast the entire screen. Your hitbox is already tiny, so who needs a shield when this gives you safety in a more direct kind of way?

• Shield sacrifices your all around protection for frontal shielding that can take an absurd number of hits. Its weakness is both gears need to be gone to be able to recharge it, making it a bit cumbersome to use, but it's potentially handy if you find dense bullet barrages hitting you frequently.

[Steven]

Now that the forum isn't being overloaded by bots and I can actually reply,

Apropos of a certain radical III+IV intro clip, I dove headfirst into Gradius V this afternoon.

Gradius V is fucking amazing. It's my effortless pick for the best Treasure game. It's really damn hard, though. I'm probably also the only person who plays it with checkpoints enabled... really been meaning to get back to it, but I kinda hate the super stiff d-pad on the PS2 controller. Very tempted to use my Hori RAP, which I bought after watching MON use one for his legendary Daioujou Death Label clear, but I'd lose access to the right analog stick functionality that Gradius V has. Kind of stuck either way, unfortunately. Wish I had a PS2 Saturn controller like what Jaimers uses, but holy crap they are expensive now.

PS: Image Fight is ALWAYS on the list , but until I get the Hori Octa Commander I can't play the ACA or Ratalaika portings as I would like, the one I use now (Saturn Style PowerA) doesn't have the touchpad for the menus!
Luckily for ALL the other games you don't need the touchpad

Is it possible to use the PowerA as the 1P controller (or 2P if you feel like playing Raiden I guess) and have a regular controller connected just to operate the touchpad if needed? I think that should be possible, so might as well try it.

Grind Stormer was nice up to a certain point, the closer you get to the end the more it goes from "fun" to "frustrating"... but aesthetically it's psychedelic!

V-V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grind Stormer, so if you didn't play V-V yet, you should. V-V is one of the coolest Toaplan games and probably the best game IKD ever made. It's Slap Fight, but bullet hell-ish, so yeah, it's really cool. Too bad everyone seems to forget V-V exists, because it's awesome.

There is no Toaplan game where the Japanese and overseas versions are as mechanically different as V-V and Grind Stormer, and since the V-V PCB comes with V-V Bomber Version, which is identical to Grind Stormer as far as I know while the Grind Stormer PCB doesn't have V-V at all, yeah, stick to V-V. There is also the MD version, which... exists and has horrid audio and isn't really worth playing if you can play the arcade version. It's technically not a bad conversion considering what it attempts and mostly succeeds at doing, and it's one of the most ambitious conversions I can think of, but damn does the MD struggle with that game.

[Lander]

Gradius V: Reached St5, saw the face of god.

And it was a vengeful one.

The run actually terminated some way into St6 after getting walled by a closing bulkhead - supremely cool stage concept, but one existential crisis is enough for the moment the meteor field was an end-to-end clench, packed tight with skin-of-the-teeth escapes through miniscule gaps. Awe-inspiring boss fight; ended up parking myself by the core after eating two loops of bullet gehenna, and finishing the job with some frantic tap-alignment.

Edifying progress beyond the credit-feed too, made it halfway through the walker before first death - a heartbreaking case of the tiny corner not being beam-safe. Still basking in the sheer elegance of the extended option system, and still no idea how to handle the St4 fleshwall. That extended end section with no gaps is absolutely brutal - I assume it must have something to do with the tunneling baddies, or maybe some specific option formation + inch-by-inch forward creep across the length of the screen.

The Multiple control button really does wonders for the game. It also makes Type 1 generally the best due of the defaults due to sheer versatility as you can move them as you please. I never enjoyed Type 3's spread but thin laser setup. Type 2 isn't bad as both it and Type 4 fire continuous lasers which is quite handy, but I tend to lean more towards Type 4's easier handling.

Interesting, I found Type 4 the least approachable; it's got good area control, and the initial recall is nice for aligning laser fire, but getting it up to full spin takes too long. Though that impression was born of the this button is my comfort blanket phase, so applying proper classical tail-positioning likely solves situations where it becomes a problem.

Type 3 makes switching between crowd control and burst damage a breeze, though I find the in/out alternation a bit of a headscrew to keep track of in the moment.

And Type 2's wide free-aim sweeps feel like breaking some fundamental STG commandment to me all part of the appeal, of course - give the player superpowers and intensify the kicking accordingly. Sounds like I need to futz with the bendy lasers a bit more, didn't realize they had constant uptime!

I especially like that you couldn't call any of them weak in good faith. Superb balance.

Weapon Edit is a guaranteed unlock eventually... the more hours you put in, the more credits you get until you get the Free Play option, which you can use to beat the game if you like.

Thus far I've been considering it a personal challenge to get there before it hands me Free Play, but the back half is humbling enough that I question whether that personal point of pride is a tractable banner to cling to

Gradius V is fucking amazing. It's my effortless pick for the best Treasure game. It's really damn hard, though. I'm probably also the only person who plays it with checkpoints enabled...

I'll easily hand it Best Treasure STG, though no shade on its monstrously long / monsterously tough brethren.
Alien Soldier is a little harder to relinquish, though it could happen...

My kingdom for your patience, you absolute maniac

I kinda hate the super stiff d-pad on the PS2 controller. Very tempted to use my Hori RAP, which I bought after watching MON use one for his legendary Daioujou Death Label clear, but I'd lose access to the right analog stick functionality that Gradius V has.

I've been using my leverless panel from the get-go, so no analog to speak of, and it's been smooth sailing. I assume the right stick is for aiming Type 2, moving Type 3, and maybe directing rotation for Type 4?

Might look at macro-ing some stick stuff eventually, since directed control would be nice in some cases, and high speeds are working out really nicely for Type 1 positioning, but bring with them the usual twitchy paranoia over tap-movement.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

St4 fleshwall is really rough. I always struggle with it, you have to shoot it a little bit at a time to get through it and even then the timing's strict. I think I did discover a way that avoids timing concerns at one point, but I can't remember the specifics. I think you have to hug the right edge of the screen with all options trailing behind you so there's a constant stream of shots overlapping you? It's the toughest part of the stage to execute for sure.

I actually didn't know Gradius V had right stick support. I'm so used to only using the left stick or D-Pad to control everything including Type 2's rotation.

[Lander]

Gradius V: Got all the way to the speed stage today, met my first Option Hunter shortly before the St2 boss, and witnessed another RAEG pattern after spending too long point-blanking the vertical Walker. Its close-quarters charged AoE blasts are tricky enough, but 10 at once? Fuck me I think the game is telling me to use my options or lose 'em.

The meteor field is still intense, but decidedly less scary once you clock that the rocks' hitboxes are a lot more forgiving than most stage hazards. St6's green goop induces a potent but what if one gets thr- *boom* factor, though I feel its backward back half is the real killer for anyone below the Type 2 / full-insertion multiple margin. And that sneaky sodding ball boss with its staring-you-in-the-face solution!
But ho, St7's disposal of kid gloves is the new big bad now - it was nice enough to grant access to the full boss parade after peeking my head into the first fight, as well as turning on Free Play for it despite my only having ~10 credits for the main game, so I got a couple of practice runs in to familiarize with its cadre of devious, devious stage hazards. Honey, I don't think these are smoke and mirrors.

5-core's dynamic terrain and wide macro-dodges are very cool. Wallboss' laser/ball trick feels like the 'safe' solution might be kamikaze left/right micro-dodging inside its core bays. And they really outdid themselves with Shin Walker, reverse-engineering that thing's movement is going to take some hard thunkin'.

Gave each of the other weapon sets a dedicated run too, and it looks like Type 3 is actually my strongest; lower cognitive load makes for safer flying, sweeping the fan is great for getting around its linearity, and the inability to focus all fire either above or below is less killer than anticipated. Greater appreciation for Type 4's consistent coverage and surprising damage when rotating, though I still suck with it; looks to have a neat wrinkle where the option tail gets 'stretched out' beyond normal low-speed length while spinning, so you can disengage and wiggle in place to shuffle them around really fast.

Also noticed that, St7 aside, Speed 1 is entirely viable in this game. That's nice.

St4 fleshwall is really rough. I always struggle with it, you have to shoot it a little bit at a time to get through it and even then the timing's strict. I think I did discover a way that avoids timing concerns at one point, but I can't remember the specifics. I think you have to hug the right edge of the screen with all options trailing behind you so there's a constant stream of shots overlapping you? It's the toughest part of the stage to execute for sure.

You're a lifesaver works great, and doesn't need any upgrades beyond the easily-retained set of multiples. Not sure how many you need though - I had the full four each time today, but can see it working with two or maybe just one since autofire maxes out at the right edge. Really smoothed out St3 overall - the surprise triple-worm freeway (and general I came back lmao in that section) is probably the trickiest part now.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

works great, and doesn't need any upgrades beyond the easily-retained set of multiples.

Glad to hear it. I think you need to memo where the enemies on the right side of the screen spawn because they can smack you, but once you pick the right height, hiding on the right seems to work well from what I remember.

For the triple worm section I seem to recall their twisty bodies give you a gap to hide in at the left edge of the screen.

[Lander]

Gradius V: Frustration plateau ahoy. I know what needs done, but in come the silly mistakes! Or perhaps existing mistakes just seem sillier now the terms are clear. Gave Jaimers' run a very brief look and decided to shoot for max speed where possible, which worked out quite nicely for Type 1. Consistently reaching the speed section now, but that closing platform zig-zag combined with the option-snatching scroll rate is an absolute monster. Managed to grab them back and recover a laser during one attempt, so I got past 5-core with some momentum, but that intermediary section before the wall is a monster befitting any true-blooded arcade finale. Big-time practice is in order.

Though the idea of getting all the way through before Free Play unlocks is just about out the window at this point - teetering on the 15 credit margin ah well, won't kill me!

Though the bloody lockout doors will - one of the few points save the cutscenes that I'll genuinely neg the game for. St2's is fine I suppose, and St6's falls under 'enough rope' since it's caused by a destroyable clamp, but the St7 one that unfurls a bunch of turrets on its right side is downright nasty for the cognitive overload distraction that precedes it. Some red flashing lights or black-yellow hazard tape would have been really nice.

Think I'll be sticking with Type 1, since Type 3 opting out of a trail mechanic makes the bouncy ball much harder to kill.

Glad to hear it. I think you need to memo where the enemies on the right side of the screen spawn because they can smack you, but once you pick the right height, hiding on the right seems to work well from what I remember.

For the triple worm section I seem to recall their twisty bodies give you a gap to hide in at the left edge of the screen.

Yeah, I learned about the tunnel bugs the hard way today! Not such a problem for Type 3 (ergo, Type 1) since It can punch out a surprisingly comfy box with a medium-tight formation, but aligning to some point in the second pocket will be the order of business otherwise. Maybe the right edge, since top and bottom didn't work out.

[Steven]

Gradius V is fucking amazing. It's my effortless pick for the best Treasure game. It's really damn hard, though. I'm probably also the only person who plays it with checkpoints enabled...

I'll easily hand it Best Treasure STG, though no shade on its monstrously long / monsterously tough brethren.
Alien Soldier is a little harder to relinquish, though it could happen...

My kingdom for your patience, you absolute maniac

I've never really been enamoured with Treasure like a lot of other people seem to be; Gunstar Heroes is just kind of okay (I'd much rather play any given Metal Slug), Radiant Silvergun is a slog with an annoying scoring system (yuck chaining), Ikaruga is annoying and has an equally annoying scoring system (yuck, chaining again), etc.

Like with Mario, Zelda, and Daioujou (yuck, chaining yet again! Seriously devs, chaining sucks, don't have it!), I do consider most of Treasure's output to be objectively good games, but I usually sure as hell don't actually enjoy playing them. Gradius V is different somehow; it's a modernized Gradius, and Gradius was always cool and good and V is probably the best one! As always, I dislike the tiny hurtbox and that the game is stuck on the damn PS2's interlaced graphics mode, but otherwise the game's really excellent at everything else. Enemy shots are really small and sometimes hard to see, though.

I still haven't played Bangai-O, unfortunately. I definitely want to play that.

I kinda hate the super stiff d-pad on the PS2 controller. Very tempted to use my Hori RAP, which I bought after watching MON use one for his legendary Daioujou Death Label clear, but I'd lose access to the right analog stick functionality that Gradius V has.

I've been using my leverless panel from the get-go, so no analog to speak of, and it's been smooth sailing. I assume the right stick is for aiming Type 2, moving Type 3, and maybe directing rotation for Type 4?

Might look at macro-ing some stick stuff eventually, since directed control would be nice in some cases, and high speeds are working out really nicely for Type 1 positioning, but bring with them the usual twitchy paranoia over tap-movement.

Yeah, it's for the Option shooting stuff. Freeze is by far the best one and nobody uses the others seriously, so it's not like you'd be missing too much, but it still kind of sucks to not be able to do everything in a game because the controller you prefer doesn't have the functionality to do so.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Think I'll be sticking with Type 1, since Type 3 opting out of a trail mechanic makes the bouncy ball much harder to kill.

I admittedly haven't touched Gradius V is a while but I seem to remember Type 3 being incredibly bad. You can make your options almost as wide by moving up and down and then freezing into place with Type 1, and using Ripple completely eliminates the need for trading your damage and piercing capabilities for some extra spread.

Type 4's rotating lasers may not have as much spread but it's easy to handle and you can still use them like normal Multiples like it's a classic Gradius game when you need to jam them into an enemy core, making it way more versatile than Type 3.

You have my sympathies dealing with S7, it's pretty brutal. The high speed section is doable with a lot of practice because of how small your hitbox is, but it's still possibly the hardest high speed section in a Gradius or Paro game?

it still kind of sucks to not be able to do everything in a game because the controller you prefer doesn't have the functionality to do so.

The right stick is only used for Type 2 as far as I know, and you can still hold the Multiple button and use the D-Pad to rotate them, so the only thing you lose is the ability to sweep them while moving. I don't really use Type 2 much so maybe this is a big deal, but in various vids I've seen players don't seem to be using this functionality much...?

[copy-paster]

17 hours of gameplay to unlock Free Play is a bit ridiculous, you'll probably get the 1CC first before you get them. Also keep in mind the konami code will be restored when you restart the stage/checkpoint (works only once, unlimited for difficulties below Normal) if you practice the game through stage select, unfortunately the code doesn't work on any difficulty beyond Normal. I did it this way and it led me to get the clear, also finished the game by any means to unlock all the stages/checkpoint.

[Lander]

Like with Mario, Zelda, and Daioujou (yuck, chaining yet again! Seriously devs, chaining sucks, don't have it!), I do consider most of Treasure's output to be objectively good games, but I usually sure as hell don't actually enjoy playing them. Gradius V is different somehow; it's a modernized Gradius, and Gradius was always cool and good and V is probably the best one! As always, I dislike the tiny hurtbox and that the game is stuck on the damn PS2's interlaced graphics mode, but otherwise the game's really excellent at everything else. Enemy shots are really small and sometimes hard to see, though.

I still haven't played Bangai-O, unfortunately. I definitely want to play that.

Yeah, I feel that; universally high-quality, but the ones I keep around are mainly for mechanics or goofy charm. V has them cede a lot of room to Gradius' time-tested ideas, which balances their more out-there design leanings in a healthy - if not perfect - fashion. Electric Clown-Around made a similar point in his review, along with an equally-salient one about it being a major swan-song for the last pre-indie generation of STG.

Bangai-O is very different, resp. the lengthy / awkwardly-scored / mind-breaking Treasure design tropes. Almost feels like an old microPC game of some sort, thanks to the ultra-modular tile structure and mix of traditional action layouts with weird "let's mess with this one odd thing" puzzle stages. Evergreen irrevent tone, too - The Hot Shots 2 body counter meets UHF's Rampo, by way of mecha

V cleans up beautifully at uninterlaced ~6K under PCSX2, for what that's worth. Input lag is a frame or so noticeable versus tuned-to-death Retroarch, but nowhere near Mr. MSX's claim of 'almost unplayable', and capable of seemingly-flawless framepacing on the right display. Jaimers' replay mentions a tool to cut Windows' crappy display manager out of the picture too, which is worth a mention for folks on that platform. Might be a different story if PCB-on-CRT is your standard, though!

I admittedly haven't touched Gradius V is a while but I seem to remember Type 3 being incredibly bad. You can make your options almost as wide by moving up and down and then freezing into place with Type 1, and using Ripple completely eliminates the need for trading your damage and piercing capabilities for some extra spread.

Type 4's rotating lasers may not have as much spread but it's easy to handle and you can still use them like normal Multiples like it's a classic Gradius game when you need to jam them into an enemy core, making it way more versatile than Type 3.

I wouldn't go so far as incredibly bad; being able to position multiples without risking the ship at all is uniquely valuable (particularly with manually-autofired laser vs swarms), but limited direct-behind-you denial, no frontal positioning, and lop-sided formation for < 4 are all significant weaknesses which probably get that much worse at higher ranks.

My biggest trouble with Type 4 now is dealing with high-HP enemies at a diagonal through walls, zako spawners and the like. Leaving them spinning generally doesn't do enough damage, so I need to get the hang of turning it off while one is inside the hurtbox. (That, and open my third eye enough to pull off old school precognitive point-blanks )

17 hours of gameplay to unlock Free Play is a bit ridiculous, you'll probably get the 1CC first before you get them. Also keep in mind the konami code will be restored when you restart the stage/checkpoint (works only once, unlimited for difficulties below Normal) if you practice the game through stage select, unfortunately the code doesn't work on any difficulty beyond Normal. I did it this way and it led me to get the clear, also finished the game by any means to unlock all the stages/checkpoint.

I fear you may be giving me too much credit methodology's been a bit Lemmingesque - throw self at campaign and skill up through attrition until all the practice stages unlock. Though that'll probably change now St7 is fully-available; hoping St8 will be something of a come-down victory lap, given series history, though I don't entirely trust Treasure not to put a twist on that too!

There's a thought: Would the Konami code be considered cheating, if used in a proper run? I always thought of it as such, but perhaps not if there's a limiter in place and it doesn't disable scoring etc.
After all, Slap Fight has a free-powerup code (if you can call holding a direction a code) that works on every death, and that always seemed more trick than cheat.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Type 3 might be more useful with Ripple, where the shots will naturally not leave any gaps. You trade boss killing potential for true full stage coverage. The problem of course, is with a bit of memorization, you can have your options spread vertically with Type 1, and do all sorts of other things with Type 1 too...

Konami code is definitely cheating. I imagine it's just suggested for getting the unlock if you want, I suspect it's likely disabled in the Score Attack mode which has no continues.

[m.sniffles.esq]

So my roommate's nu-gf was poking through my steam library: "What's 'IKUSAAAAAAAAAAN'?" (sorry I'm too lazy to look how many 'A's it officially has)

"You know, I bought that over a year ago for $2 and forgot about it. Let's take a look"

It starts up, and on the difficultly select screen I think "I'm a pretty normal person... 'Normal' difficultly should suffice"

Boy, was that a humiliating ass-beating...

[AkitaRonin]

So my roommate's nu-gf was poking through my steam library: "What's 'IKUSAAAAAAAAAAN'?" (sorry I'm too lazy to look how many 'A's it officially has)

"You know, I bought that over a year ago for $2 and forgot about it. Let's take a look"

It starts up, and on the difficultly select screen I think "I'm a pretty normal person... 'Normal' difficultly should suffice"

Boy, was that a humiliating ass-beating...

I feel you so hard, STGs humbled me and, as a beginner, I actually start these games on Easy mode now before working my way to normal haha
This one is in my list, I want to play it!!

Currently, I bought the Outside games on sale on Steam, "Cosmo Dreamer", "Like Dreamer" and "Redneg All Stars". Man, these games are good... Very fun Touhou inspired stuff with some incredibly imaginative boss pattern theming. Good stuff. I think they might be a bit too long for my taste with the usual 8 stages (at least "Cosmo Dreamer") and the duration of the Boss Rush, but man, is it fun from beginning to end. Also, as a beginner, found the normal difficulty surprisingly accessible, got the 1cc for Normal "Cosmos Dreamer" Trial mode on second attempt, which made me feel pretty good

[m.sniffles.esq]

I feel you so hard, STGs humbled me and, as a beginner, I actually start these games on Easy mode now before working my way to normal

Oh, I would not call this experience standard to STGs by a looooooong shot

It was like "Ready? Go!" then enemies and bullets just RAIN on you before you can even get your bearings. I hadn't even figured out which button did what before I was seeing "continue?"

The girl was like "Uh... are all these games like this?"

"Not quite"