Prelude to the Apocalypse

[lovecraft]

Only the west wants peace.

Iran wants to completely destroy Israel and America and they've been saying so (with enthusiasm) for decades. Do you think they are fucking kidding?

I don't know about Iran specifically, but the idea that the Arab world wants to totally obliterate Israel and America seems not universally correct.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Peace_Initiative

The Arab world has proposed peace in the past. Perhaps the terms were not to the liking of America and Israel. And we don't know what would happen if Israel accepted some or all of these terms or tried to haggle them around. We don't know because Israel isn't interested in any deal that involves staying within their borders.

But at least an effort has been made by some in the Arab world to try to stabilize the region, and that effort has been rejected by Israel. Even if the Muslims and Jews will always hate each other, individuals within those groups have tried to bring about a more peaceful resolution. The current Israeli administration is not interested in peace at all.

Incidentally, the Bush administration supported the arab peace initiative. Bush, of all people. The Israeli government has rejected it (despite paying lip service to the concept of peace) and suggested a counter-proposal but they have never actually put one forward... Because they're not serious about peace. If they put forward a counter-offer and it was accepted, then they would have to stop expanding their borders. They won't do that. Netanyahu does not want peace.

As far as Iran wanting to destroy America, well they can "want" whatever they wish. I would hope even the stupidest individual in Iran recognizes the impossibility of realizing their desire, and that this understanding leads to a realization they will have to live with the continued presence of western infidels in their world. Iran simply lacks the power (the entire Arab world does) to "destroy" the United States. The logistics alone render it impossible. I'm sure the Jews also want to destroy the Arab world. But it would seem Netanyahu has not given up on this dream.

Sorry but things didn't happen as you say.

As a little historical reminder, in 1950 Iran was actually the second Muslim country to recognize the Hebrew state, and Iran and Israel cooperated very closely until the end of the 1970s.
Things went wrong in 1979 with the establishment of the Islamic Republic, and from then on Iran ceased all official relations with Israel, which it no longer recognized. The Israeli embassy was replaced by the Palestinian embassy, ​​which became the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO). From then on, Islamic Jihad, which originated in Iran, became the first Palestinian Islamist organization to attack Israel...

In 1982, Israel invaded Lebanon to stop Palestinian attacks. The ideological army of the Islamic Republic, helped create Hezbollah, a Shiite movement that established itself in southern Lebanon and waged an armed struggle against Israel.
At the same time, Iran toughened its words against the “Zionist regime” and called Israel a “cancerous tumor”.
At that time, Iranian propaganda spoke of “Zionist vermin” or “vile prostitute of the United States.”
And from there you know the rest of the story.

The problem in the Arab world is that there has been no real revolution in Islam. There has been no sufficient adaptation of Islam to the contemporary and modern world. In its true form, Islam is as much a religion as a LAW, or even more of a law than a simple religious cult.
In the fundamentals of the Koran that Islamists believe in the most, the Jew is a non-believer designated textually as an enemy whose "skull must be smashed with a stone".
And that is the whole problem: the tiny Hebrew state is landlocked in the middle of a group of countries under the influence of Islamists and Islamic Jihad who cannot bear to have Jews on these lands, because they obey the fundamentals of Jihad. And the problem today in the Muslim community of the world is that it is still too much under the influence, under the sway, of these extremists who are very powerful (Muslim Brotherhood financed by Qatar for example), who are deployed everywhere in a project of cultural conquest, and who prevent the modernization of Islam.

[Mortificator]

Looks like someone drank too much miskatonic

Lovecraft's an eldritch mix of fearfulness and ignorance.

The guy who wrote Call of Cthulhu was pretty dumb too.

[lovecraft]

Looks like someone drank too much miskatonic

Lovecraft's an eldritch mix of fearfulness and ignorance.

The guy who wrote Call of Cthulhu was pretty dumb too.

If you were smart, you would make real arguments against what I said.
Instead, you're reduced to saying that I'm a mix of fear and ignorance... but fear of what? I only recalled historical facts.
You must be one of those people who believe they can rewrite history and convincing themselves that it happened as they imagine.
Drop the little personal attacks, and bring out your arguments, bring out your culture, Mr. genius.

[orange808]

Sorry but things didn't happen as you say.

What are you babbling on about?

I said there was an ongoing conflict between Jews and Islam somewere earlier in the thread. What the fuck does Iran's foreign policy in 1950 have to do with anything?

Does their religion include any specifics regarding the Iranian government's actions? I think not. I might be able to identify the position of the Catholic Church using a leader and a small nation state, but we obviously aren't discussing Catholics, are we? Furthermore, the Pope doesn't speak for every Christian.

Regardless, I understand that conflict is regional, tribal, and based on religion. Furthermore, Islam's organization and leadership has always existed outside the framework of governments. That's why we keep saying "you can't kill an idea" and warning that this will keep coming back.

Of course, Iran is a well known theocracy and they have taken up the extreme right wing mantle. That happened after 1950. Neat. Thanks for telling us all something we already knew. Looks like their 1979 movement didn't care much about 1950.

I really don't need a lecture from a Trumper that just Googled the Middle East for the first time. Also, I guess you'll need to dig back and quote whatever you're bitching about, because I never believed that Iran was granted power to speak for the "destroy Israel and take back the promise land" right wing of Islam when the nation was established.

I specifically framed recent comments about the current state of affairs in the last year and what Biden could do, by the way.

[lovecraft]

I said there was an ongoing conflict between Jews and Islam somewere in the thread. What the fuck does Iran's foreign policy in 1950 have to do with anything?

Does their religion include any specifics regarding the Iranian government's actions? I think not. I might be able to identify the position of the Catholic Church using a leader and a small nation state, but we obviously aren't discussing Catholics, are we? Furthermore, the Pope doesn't speak for every Christian.

Regardless, I understand that conflict is regional, tribal, and based on religion. Furthermore, Islam's organization and leadership has always existed outside the framework of governments. That's why we keep saying "you can't kill an idea" and warning that this will keep coming back.

Of course, Iran is a well known theocracy and they have taken up the extreme right wing mantle. That happened after 1950.

I really don't need a lecture from a Trumper that just Googled the Middle East for the first time. Also, I guess you'll need to dig back and quote whatever you're bitching about, because I never believed that Iran was granted power to speak for the "destroy Israel and take back the promise land" right wing of Islam when the nation was established.

My reply was adressed to Sima Tuna.

It was just to recontextualize... BTW, did you realize that the present has some connection to what happened in past history ?

I really don't need a lecture from a Trumper that just Googled the Middle East for the first time. Also, I guess you'll need to dig back and quote whatever you're bitching about, because I never believed that Iran was granted power to speak for the "destroy Israel and take back the promise land" right wing of Islam when the nation was established.

Stay cool dude, I'm not a Trumper, and you don't need to get upset, nor need to be dismissive.
I gave my analysis of the reasons for Trump's victory, but you can swallow your bitterness, I have absolutely no participation in Trump's victory Trump will take care of American interests, not mine. The press and the media have stuffed the whole world's heads with Trump for one year, so obviously it is difficult not to talk about him the day after his victory.

[lovecraft]

I really don't need a lecture from a Trumper that just Googled the Middle East for the first time. Also, I guess you'll need to dig back and quote whatever you're bitching about, because I never believed that Iran was granted power to speak for the "destroy Israel and take back the promise land" right wing of Islam when the nation was established.

There is no "right wing" in Islam... This type of Westernized comparison is absurd because it has no connection with the Eastern vision. Hamas killed Jews on October 7 because it is in the corpus of their ideology which is a spiritual ideology based on a hadith, a reported word of the prophet, the very same shared by the Hezbollah and Boko Haram

[emphatic]

A great victory for free speech. At least for those of us who value it.

Exactly.

Here in Sweden, one of the biggest newspapers ran a poll who swedes would vote for and Kamala Harris got around 80% (I don't remember the exact number). Why? Because the Swedish media all ran Democrat party talking points as some sort of gospel while straw manning the other camp. Typical stories would be presented having someone eloquently present Harris' talking points, then inserting a clip of Trump being Trump (cut to sound as bad as possible). Nobody here ever heard her speak, so everybody not watching unedited content on Youtube or getting the bigger picture from Twitter believed everything they got from the news. Ironically, researching source material is a big part of the education in Sweden. Young people here in Scandinavia are seeking professional help now, because they believe that Hitler 2.0 is in power in the US and they are terrified.

Does this sound like fair and balanced news reporting?

[BryanM]

I concede it's possible the Biden people are seething and mad that their empty threats mean absolutely nothing and they're weak fucking losers that have helped end the world. But the important point is they are, at best, impotent.

Spoiler

Regardless, her entire campaign was ultimately aimed at flipping white women. White women ignored her and chose Trump.

That is quite hilarious.

They know young people are their most important demographic. I've never seen an election with less enthusiasm in my entire life.

The rallies with Trump sitting in the dark mumbling on and on about his rally numbers in a 75% empty stadium really encapsulate the vibe this year. Hell, it might really be the end of the world and I don't even think the theme song for this year should be 'When The World Caves In'.

Out with a whimper, man.

Does this sound like fair and balanced news reporting?

Yes.

Sweden doesn't have the same propaganda we're exposed to from cradle to grave. Trump only makes sense in this current time and place. Normal people don't like fascism in normal times. These aren't normal people in normal times.

Normal people don't destroy relationships with their family in order to support their imaginary TV dad. That isn't normal, that's cult behavior. Isolating their followers and making sure they are constantly miserable and afraid. So the machine can sustain itself.

Even with the constant cradle to grave brain-washing from billionaire media, the youth vote here in the U.S. goes 60-40 democrat. Sweden is a fucking hippy nation where they give people healthcare and shit. It's normal for them to think that making society better is better than making it worse. Only the 20% to 30% of a population that's innately chaotic evil would find hurting people for the sake of hurting people appealing.

Did Sweden have Trump on prime time TV as a gameshow host for years to become everyone's imaginary dad? No? Then why on earth would they have formed an emotional attachment to the man like people in our country have? You might as well ask them to vote for a space alien named Froglther from the planet Blaheyphat.

They have clean and neutral minds, not attached to our stupid cultural baggage. Of course they don't understand the cult leader's appeal.

then inserting a clip of Trump being Trump (cut to sound as bad as possible)

You might want to try rebooting your brain (give it a whole month without listening to any politics shit) and watch one of these things from start to finish and you'd realize cutting to the good bits only does him massive favors. This ain't our 2016 Trumpster, buddy.

They're low energy and depressing as hell.

[emphatic]

Sweden doesn't have the same propaganda we're exposed to from cradle to grave.

Oh, you sweet summer child. You think you can explain Sweden to a swede like you know what's what?

Normal people don't destroy relationships with their family in order to support their imaginary TV dad. That isn't normal, that's cult behavior. Isolating their followers and making sure they are constantly miserable and afraid. So the machine can sustain itself.

That's exactly what's been happening, but not to the people you think it did.

Sweden is a fucking hippy nation where they give people healthcare and shit. It's normal for them to think that making society better is better than making it worse. Only the 20% to 30% of a population that's innately chaotic evil would find hurting people for the sake of hurting people appealing.

Swedes pay over 50% tax on income, then we pay tax on food, fuel and energy on top of that and our bureaucracy is so massive it can be seen from space. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but sure, the Social Democrats are about 30% of the voters, so you're at least partially correct - just like a stopped watch.

Did Sweden have Trump on prime time TV as a gameshow host for years to become everyone's imaginary dad?

Yes, we did have his show on prime time television. He was very popular. Strike out again.

This ain't our 2016 Trumpster, buddy.

I ain't your buddy, squirt.

[BryanM]

I mean it's very very easy to prove how silly you're being about the Sweden thing.

Does Sweden have Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and a bunch of other guys stuffing brain worms into people head's for generations?

The USA does. Capitalists have never been more powerful than they are now. Not even the pharoahs who blew the national budget and all their surplus human labor on a dope mausoleum had the power to directly groom children's minds as they do now.

And even with all of that, with the vampire worms whispering in our ears nonstop... Trump only managed to succeed at a 50/50 coinflip election. He barely got over the line.

Subtract the media empire that provides a very specific imaginary model of reality to live in, and how well would he have done? In normal times with normal people, 20 or 30%. Maybe 40%, if you live in a miserable shithole like the U.S. Hippy paradise? Not a fucking chance.

Docile cattle we may be, but we're not completely stupid. If it was not necessary to spend billions of dollars to convince us to be 100% loyal to them and repeal the New Deal, they would not spend billions of dollars every single year. Propaganda works.

Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc won a huge boon this week. Forgive me for hating Bill Gates' guts.

I ain't your buddy, squirt.

I ain't your squirt, pal.

[Specineff]

Democrats really need to stop nominating women for president.

No, I'm serious. It's very likely we won't see a woman president in the USA before 2050.

And no, it's not that I have anything against a woman president; a lot of other people do.

[BryanM]

Democrats really need to stop nominating women for president.

No, I'm serious. It's very likely we won't see a woman president in the USA before 2050.

And no, it's not that I have anything against a woman president; a lot of other people do.

I get where you're coming from, it certainly doesn't help. But I don't think it hurts significantly, either. The message and trust in the party matter more - this is a team sport after all.

Everyone keeps saying Mexican guys are misogynistic machismo freaks.... yeah so, why did Mexico just elect its first female president?

Everyone knows the fash love the patriarchy... so why did they elect Margaret Thatcher?

Like I said before, the polls said Biden was doing FAR FAR worse than this. The man barely eeked out a win last time, and nobody was too impressed by his administration. (Only nerds like me even know what good things he did. If it wasn't for the genocide thing, he'd have been the best president in my lifetime. This isn't praise - the bar is very very low here...) Kamala would have won if she was able to break away from his legacy, on Gaza and on economic policy.

She was forced to lay off the populist rhetoric by her CEO friends after they gave her a talk. She didn't have to be Hillary 2.0, and deep down she knows that wasn't the correct strategy. She constantly flirts with supporting universal Medicare until she's told to knock it off. She picked Tim Walz, practically a communist by liberal standards. But her arm was bent: Democrats exist to lose elections.

If she wasn't loyal, she would have won. But if she wasn't loyal, she would not have been allowed the chance to run.

Already the shitlibs are doing the same thing they always do: "We gotta move more to the center. We gotta get more racist."

Is there something wrong with their brains? If you hate immigrants and gay people and women and trans people, there's already a much much better party for that. If you want to protect those people, you'd like for there to be an option on the ballot for that. (And of course if you don't care about any of that stuff, then it doesn't matter.)

They're not retarded, they haven't been dropped on their heads as children. That's what the CEO's and shareholders tell them to say.

Nine years in this thread, and it's still the neoliberalism. Coinflip elections are not normal, they're engineered top-down to be this way. The democrats will continue on this path, and maybe we'll go back to the Ronald Reagan election map one day.

Get excited for the machine to push such rockstar shitlibs as Gavin Newsom in 2028. Tired of homes being so gosh darn cheap and affordable? Gavin Newsom has a solution for that!

It's called a veto.

[Specineff]

I get where you're coming from, it certainly doesn't help. But I don't think it hurts significantly, either. The message and trust in the party matter more - this is a team sport after all.

Everyone keeps saying Mexican guys are misogynistic machismo freaks.... yeah so, why did Mexico just elect its first female president?

Everyone knows the fash love the patriarchy... so why did they elect Margaret Thatcher?

I haven't been there in a while, but I think it's because population-wise, women now outnumber men. And among other factors, because they're tired of President AMLO's BS. And they elected him because they were tired of the National Action Party BS before that. And before that, they were tired of the Institutional Revolutionary Party's BS.

Thatcher had balls. Metaphorically.

EDIT: I just found out Sheinbaum is the successor to AMLO, not a candidate from an opposing party.

[BryanM]

I haven't been there in a while, but I think it's because population-wise, women now outnumber men. And among other factors, because they're tired of President AMLO's BS.

I don't know what particular capitalist propaganda you've been exposed to that makes it possible for you to say such things, but it's a great example of how propaganda works and is worth every nickel it costs the zillionaires.

Obrador's approval rating is always around 60%. His successor, Sheinbaum, blew out the election with 61% of the vote. Growing the share of the electorate from her predecessor.

This tracks with how humans are and is the natural state of a normal society. 60% of the people like good things. 40% of the people like bad things.


God, look at that map. FDR/Reagan levels of domination. Vicente Fox can only cope and seethe.

Spoiler

[orange808]

I'm just done with Karens in pantsuits lecturing me on shit.

Karen needs to shut the fuck up. Also, you're not a feminist, Karen. You're an asshole. You're just a white lady--and your kind chose Trump three times in a row.

Karen needs to shut the fuck up.

If Ruth Bader Karen had stepped down, that also would have helped. I see Karen Pelosi is busy playing her big bad man card on Biden right now.

Shut up, Karen. Stop telling me your kind is going to save us, Karen. Stop telling me it's not your fault and you're a victim, asshole. You are part of the problem. You wanted a voice, you got one. That comes with responsibility and accountability, Karen. Yeah, the other white people voted for him, too.. Doesn't change what you did, Karen.

There is no great white sisterhood, Karen. White women are just ordinary white people doing white people things.

[orange808]

I get where you're coming from, it certainly doesn't help. But I don't think it hurts significantly, either. The message and trust in the party matter more - this is a team sport after all.

Everyone keeps saying Mexican guys are misogynistic machismo freaks.... yeah so, why did Mexico just elect its first female president?

Everyone knows the fash love the patriarchy... so why did they elect Margaret Thatcher?

I haven't been there in a while, but I think it's because population-wise, women now outnumber men.

Nope.
Linky

You can find plenty of proof that men outnumber women in the United States besides my link. Gen-X is small and that's the only age range with a female advantage.

Women don't outnumber men in the US and they won't in foreseeable future, either. Teenage boys outnumber the girls.

One last thing: Maggie was an asshole.

[Specineff]

Nope.
Linky

I was referring to Mexico's population:

"According to the results of the National Occupation and Employment Survey, New Edition (ENOEN), as of the fourth quarter of 2022, 128.9 million people resided in Mexico: 67.0 million were women. The above represented 52.0% of the total population. In this same period, the number of men was 61.8 million."

Source, In Spanish:

https://www.inegi.org.mx/contenidos/sal ... 8M2023.pdf

[orange808]

Nope.
Linky

I was referring to Mexico's population:

"According to the results of the National Occupation and Employment Survey, New Edition (ENOEN), as of the fourth quarter of 2022, 128.9 million people resided in Mexico: 67.0 million were women. The above represented 52.0% of the total population. In this same period, the number of men was 61.8 million."

Source, In Spanish:

https://www.inegi.org.mx/contenidos/sal ... 8M2023.pdf

I see. Although, a nation that parades the severed heads of dead political officials as warnings is not a democracy.

So, it doesn't matter.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

Although I have no problem admitting that I think you're a total idiot, this is an honest question.

You answer yourself, so you have the answer to your question.
And based on this observation, I have no interest in responding to a trepanned asshole who is talking to himself.

Suuuuure. It's not that you were called out on an embarrassingly dumb bullshit statement and realized that you actually have no idea about how geopolitics works. Nooo, this kind of conversation is beneath you

[Lemnear]

Thanks to those who voted for Trump, you have now generated the largest and most dangerous oligarchy in the world.

Now all the greatest powers in the world are ruled by people with a disproportionate ego... it can only end badly.

[emphatic]

I mean it's very very easy to prove how silly you're being about the Sweden thing.

Does Sweden have Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and a bunch of other guys stuffing brain worms into people head's for generations?

No, we have something called Public Service, the Swedish Television and national radio. It does the exact same thing you say Fox News does, but it also have the audacity to claim that ALL other news sources are not to be trusted, basically. This has been going on since the 60s and maybe before that, and it's now financed with 9 billion SEK in tax money per year. Yeah, that's right, we get to pay for our own indoctrination. But sure, you know better, I guess.

In normal times with normal people, 20 or 30%. Maybe 40%, if you live in a miserable shithole like the U.S. Hippy paradise? Not a fucking chance.

It's quite eerie to see how easily you dismiss those who voted for Trump as not normal, just because they don't see things the same way you do. Thank God they get to vote, same as you do. And it quite obvious as to the result of the election, those with opposing views to yours are a bigger number.

Propaganda works.

Until it's clearly exposed thanks to free information on the Internet. God bless Elon Musk.

[orange808]

Sweden and free internet information for all.

Tell you what, I'll continue to avoid telling you about Sweden when I'm not in country and you can do the same for America.

Free information? LMAO! That's demonstrably untrue. Most of the accurate information is paywalled, but lies are free. Accurate and exhaustive proof that liars are lying is often locked up behind paywalls. Free information, my arse.

Right wing appeals to tolerance and "different views" are cute. Of course, I know that those people with "opposing views" believe in violence and they have admitted it over and over again. Might also explain why a Trumper with metal skills was driving around setting ballots on fire. It's also curious that Trumpers talk exactly like Timothy McVeigh. For the Swedish foreigners, he was a terrorist. Nothing tolerant about a Trumper. The only people that truly believe in tolerance are people like me--that respect the results of elections and don't want to kill people I disagree with. Oh no, we said we don't like Trumpers! Their free speech is violated! Oh no!

Fuck.

[orange808]

There is no "right wing" in Islam...

Ha.

That's demonstrably untrue and proving it is dirt simple. All I need is a collection of people that aren't in the extreme right with the ability to shape a government. See the nation of Turkey?

That was easy.

[BryanM]

It is pretty farcical to pretend a normie will ever look up a single thing they don't know, instead of filling the gaps with a hallucination, whatever the TV or their social group says, or whatever they wish were true. (Which they will then pass back into their social group.)

(And even then, capital is only able to squash 60-40 margins down to 50-50. The glass is half full, I guess.)

The neolibs tend to be these wonky nerd types that like to point at charts and metrics for post-hoc justification of their ideology. Being someone who also loves hard, solid numbers I guess I feel kinship with these geeks. I suppose that's why I have so much disgust for the neolibs.... You can't love or hate someone more than yourself.

(Nothing really angers me more than the use of the unemployment rate to protect the status quo. The current 0% unemployment rate means there's no suffering or hardship at all in this country, right? Please ignore that if you eat out of garbage cans and sleep in an alley you're not 'unemployed'. What a bullshit metric they invented...)

You ever see a chud or a hippy read a chart? Of course not. And if they did, the data would slide right off. You gotta tell'em a story for their little animal brains to retain anything.

I'm just done with Karens in pantsuits lecturing me on shit.

This strategy is honestly just bullshit the strategists make up. 'We'll win without having to change anything. We'll just trick people into voting for us by changing our rhetoric slightly.' White women are just a symbol for why they gotta move to the center and be more racist and crack down harder on trans people. They always advocate for moving to the center, as capital drags us further and further to the right, no matter what. There's no reason to get more upset at this excuse than all the other batshit insane hallucinations they use as excuses for why they gotta be the republican-lite or the 'vote for me because I want to be president because I think that would be kinda cool' party.

This election was decided back in 2020 when they ratfucked Sanders and installed the #4 guy in the primary as the winner. In an alternative universe where they didn't do that, he'd be walking into his second term right now. Texas might have finished swinging blue. We wouldn't be talking about elections being abolished, or a third Trump term.

Anyone who says that universe had a 0% possibility of happening is a lying shit fucker or a corpse where the worms finished eating out their brain.

[emphatic]

Sweden and free internet information for all.

Tell you what, I'll continue to avoid telling you about Sweden when I'm not in country and you can do the same for America.

BryanM, did you answer me from your troll account by mistake?
Also, making up fake quotes like you did above is misinformation, haven't your lizard overlords over at MSNBC warned you about such things?

*itsokwhenwedoit.jpg*

Free speech is a global necessity for democracy to thrive, just because you have the first amendment in your neck of the woods doesn't mean you can claim it as something only "Americans" can discuss or want. The EU is trying to shut down X over here in Europe, as they want the actual Internet to be similar to how "The Internet" works in North Korea.

[orange808]

The EU is trying to shut down X over here in Europe

I didn't mention the EU. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

You're the one trying to tell me who Trumpers are and what they do from Sweden. I called you on it. Simple as that.

Free speech hasn't been in any danger here in America, my poor ignorant foreign friend. If you try to claim otherwise (and Musk has), you're either an ignorant victim of propaganda or a fucking liar. Furthermore, nobody said it wasn't essential, so I have no idea what you're rambling on about.

At the same time, not all speech is protected and that's not new in America. Things like inciting a riot were declared a crime in America before any of us were born. As far as I know, no new curbs on American free speech have been introduced in my lifetime--or yours. In fact, the definition has been expanded! Americans know the decision I'm referencing. (Ha, I didn't spoon feed you.)

It seems you're projecting and upset about some distant foreign domestic issue in your own home that is unrelated to America. Although, it looks like you're actually upset that people aren't allowed to fucking lie with impunity.

While you're at it, please stop Swedesplaing the American electorate. You can also stop with the silly and baseless attempts to imply that American free speech is under attack or it's been dialed back recently. Free speech has been fine.

The supposed free speech shit Trumpers stir up is bullishit. Right wing Trumpers tested the established laws and got burned. Defamation is a thing and has been for a very long time. Storming the Capitol and attacking the security is a crime--not speech.

I don't know what to do with your hyperbole on North Korea. You're not arguing honestly.

[GaijinPunch]

A great victory for free speech. At least for those of us who value it.

Exactly.

Here in Sweden, one of the biggest newspapers ran a poll who swedes would vote for and Kamala Harris got around 80% (I don't remember the exact number). Why? Because the Swedish media all ran Democrat party talking points as some sort of gospel while straw manning the other camp. Typical stories would be presented having someone eloquently present Harris' talking points, then inserting a clip of Trump being Trump (cut to sound as bad as possible). Nobody here ever heard her speak, so everybody not watching unedited content on Youtube or getting the bigger picture from Twitter believed everything they got from the news. Ironically, researching source material is a big part of the education in Sweden. Young people here in Scandinavia are seeking professional help now, because they believe that Hitler 2.0 is in power in the US and they are terrified.

Does this sound like fair and balanced news reporting?

It does not -- however, to quote what you said, they showed "Trump being Trump". Assume they show 'Trump being Trump" vs "Anyone being Anyone". I don't think those numbers are going to change much. I have no data, but I'm assuming educated Europeans would probably be even more turned off by Trump talking just b/c he embodies so much of what we are told is "The Ugly American". He's a phenomenally poor speaker. Kamala is no MLK, but she is coherent. The way you carry yourself goes a very long way.

Swedes pay over 50% tax on income, then we pay tax on food, fuel and energy on top of that and our bureaucracy is so massive it can be seen from space. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but sure, the Social Democrats are about 30% of the voters, so you're at least partially correct - just like a stopped watch.

We pay very lose to that in California, before healthcare. It's a progressive tax system, but it blows up well before the poverty line. On top of that we have healthcare premiums + healthcare costs. Some companies might pay your premiums for your family. Some maybe just you. Some none. The insurance I'm on is VERY low premium but very high deductible, and each person covered is roughly 2% of my salary. A large family could easily go over 50% after healthcare.

[emphatic]

You're the one trying to tell me who Trumpers are what they do from Sweden. I called you on it. Simple as that.

Please show me exactly where I quoted you, before you injected yourself into the discussion I was in with BryanM. Are you confusing me with someone else? English is not my first language, so it's sometimes difficult to fully grasp your intellectual-meltdown-fueled gibberish.

It does not -- however, to quote what you said, they showed "Trump being Trump". Assume they show 'Trump being Trump" vs "Anyone being Anyone". I don't think those numbers are going to change much. I have no data, but I'm assuming educated Europeans would probably be even more turned off by Trump talking just b/c he embodies so much of what we are told is "The Ugly American". He's a phenomenally poor speaker. Kamala is no MLK, but she is coherent. The way you carry yourself goes a very long way.

What I meant with Trump being Trump is that he does not talk like a politician, and after having him constantly painted as a hated dictator type by the Swedish mainstream + the state media, the common Swede hearing him speak will have a strong bias towards anything he says, even if he's touching on subjects us swedes can agree with him on.

Swedes pay over 50% tax on income, then we pay tax on food, fuel and energy on top of that and our bureaucracy is so massive it can be seen from space. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, but sure, the Social Democrats are about 30% of the voters, so you're at least partially correct - just like a stopped watch.

We pay very lose to that in California, before healthcare. It's a progressive tax system, but it blows up well before the poverty line. On top of that we have healthcare premiums + healthcare costs. Some companies might pay your premiums for your family. Some maybe just you. Some none. The insurance I'm on is VERY low premium but very high deductible, and each person covered is roughly 2% of my salary.
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I don't mind paying taxes as long as it's not eaten up primarily by bureaucrats. We even have people employed by the state (tax money) checking beer labels for signs of depiction of people overly enjoying alcohol so these brands can be banned from sale, because our state forces us to buy alcohol from one state-run store and nowhere else. And only between 10-6 on weekdays and 10-3 on Saturdays. This is a country that does not treat adults as adults, and this is why free speech has been under attack for such a long time here. Have you considered moving from California to a state not run by Democrats?

[orange808]

Oh no! The liquor store isn't open 24 hours? My goodness, that is a mighty pickle! Free speech is definitely under attack! I didn't realize the liquor store wasn't open all the time. That's some serious free speech trouble...

Trump supports guns everywhere and no health care, but he doesn't talk like a politician--so it's all good. Gotcha. He also says Hitler had some good ideas. That's some great "not politician" talk.

Ha.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

No, we have something called Public Service, the Swedish Television and national radio. It does the exact same thing you say Fox News does, but it also have the audacity to claim that ALL other news sources are not to be trusted, basically. This has been going on since the 60s and maybe before that, and it's now financed with 9 billion SEK in tax money per year. Yeah, that's right, we get to pay for our own indoctrination. But sure, you know better, I guess.
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Until it's clearly exposed thanks to free information on the Internet. God bless Elon Musk.

See, the problem here is that there are people in Germany (where I live and teach) talk exactly about the German public broadcast service like you talk about Swedish media, and I know enough about Germany (which is a lot more similar to Sweden than to the US of course) to know that these people are full of shit. Your boner for that ridiculous manchild Elon Musk (dark gothic MAGA, radical dude!), who has turned Twitter into a homophobic, racist, right wing extremist cesspool, lets me suspect that your ideas of what free speech is comes from a right wing populist perspective, and I think it has something to do with this fact (from Wikipedia article on Sveriges Television AB):

"A survey in 1999 claimed that 33 percent of the journalists working for SVT and SR supported the Left Party, which was about the same proportion as among journalists employed in commercial broadcasting and the print media, but significantly higher than among the general public, only 15 percent of whom supported the Left Party."

But wait, there's more:

"The study nevertheless concluded that the private political opinions of the journalists had little impact on their work and that news stories are treated the same regardless of the political colour of individual journalists. ... The University of Gothenburg also made another study during the Swedish 2006 general election, comparing SVT's news programme Rapport to the country's five largest newspapers. The study concluded that Rapport's coverage of the election was the most balanced of them all."

In short: the narrative you're presenting - that there's a main stream media in your country that is sellling left wing/ anti-Trump propaganda - is the same nonsense that populists all over the world spout.