What [not shmup] game are you playing now?

[ExitPlanetDust]

Palate cleansing with Inertial Drift after fruitless attempts at arcade hard Assault Suit Leynos runs.

Do we have an arcade racing thread? Should we?

Spoiler

[Sima Tuna]

I've suggested one a few times. I tried Inertial Drift meself but I couldn't get my head around the dual stick approach to taking corners. The F-Zero GX player inside me would rather they assigned drift functions to either triggers or brake feathering.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Inertial Drift definitely has an odd control scheme. It almost feels like the sticks should be reversed, but that wouldn’t make sense at the limit when the car starts to drift. Unfortunately the game devolves into wall bouncing and scraping at a high level for the best lap times. But things sure look cool when the player plays by the rules.

I guess the racing thread could take after the beat em ups thread. We could run a list at the top so people can find quick recommendations. I guess people could run their own lap time competitions on the side or set up online meets if they’re into that.

[BulletMagnet]

Do we have an arcade racing thread?

Not arcade specifically, but there is this.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Ah, so that wasn’t very successful then.

[ryu]

Beat Silent Hill 2 (2024) once. Not sure I'll complete the second run on hard though.

Game feels really overrated to me. I think the new controls make for a more fun game, but they made James' dodge too powerful and overcompensated the strength of enemies to make up for that. So melee combat or facing multiple enemies now feel at least as tedious as in the original. Shooting and staggering enemies, then rushing in to finish them off with a melee attack feels great however.

The earlier dungeons are not as scary as they are in the original, but the prison and labyrinth make up for that. Although it got to be a bit too much for me with how much they expanded those places. The horror in the remake is much more explicit and relying less on just sounds and visuals, but at least as effective. But to me that subtle way of inflicting fear is core part of the series' identity

Anyways, not a terrible game but it's too for long for what it is. They adapted some cutscenes better, others worse. They could have done worse on the new script as a whole, so I think the main narrative is still what it is. In terms of staying true to the original's story I found the remake to be much less offensive than I expected.

Glad I finally got to jump into Dragon's Dogma II. Feels worse on average than the first game but it's still enjoyable, especially because I'm better off with a casual experience right now.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Ah, so that wasn’t very successful then.

You can always make a dedicated thread. Take the plunge! :V There also used to be the website Rolling-Start but that unfortunately is gone due to hosting costs/issues I think.

[it290]

Beat Silent Hill 2 (2024) once. Not sure I'll complete the second run on hard though.

Game feels really overrated to me. I think the new controls make for a more fun game, but they made James' dodge too powerful and overcompensated the strength of enemies to make up for that. So melee combat or facing multiple enemies now feel at least as tedious as in the original. Shooting and staggering enemies, then rushing in to finish them off with a melee attack feels great however.

The earlier dungeons are not as scary as they are in the original, but the prison and labyrinth make up for that. Although it got to be a bit too much for me with how much they expanded those places. The horror in the remake is much more explicit and relying less on just sounds and visuals, but at least as effective. But to me that subtle way of inflicting fear is core part of the series' identity

Anyways, not a terrible game but it's too for long for what it is. They adapted some cutscenes better, others worse. They could have done worse on the new script as a whole, so I think the main narrative is still what it is. In terms of staying true to the original's story I found the remake to be much less offensive than I expected.

Glad I finally got to jump into Dragon's Dogma II. Feels worse on average than the first game but it's still enjoyable, especially because I'm better off with a casual experience right now.

I just completed it as well and jumped back into OG SH2 (well, Enhanced Edition) right after for comparison.

I feel the strong points of the new game are in the visual atmosphere atmosphere and acting (although as you say the script itself hews incredibly close to the original). I'd also say the animation and expressiveness of the characters are a win, and for the most part I think the new human character designs are all improvements.

I think the original game is better in terms of environmental design (the remake tends to stick with the more 'industrial' style level designs and doesn't use the 'flesh nightmare' stuff as much), level design (some of the levels overextend themselves for no real reason other than to add length), combat (simply because there's too much of it in the remake and it's not fun), sound design, and overall cinematic flavor. The OTS camera really robs a lot of the tension as do the dodge iframes. Playing on normal, I found myself getting hit a lot but still having an overabundance of healing items, I think I finished the game with something like 8 syringes in reserve.

I agree with you about the earlier dungeons not being as scary, but I kind of felt like the prison and labyrinth were the worst parts of the remake. They both go on for way too long, in the latter case with really boring art assets, and the overabundance of ammo and dark lighting in the prison made me just drop every single enemy rather than relying on evasion. At no point did I ever feel like I was having to make the classic survival horror decision about conserving resources. The original game doesn't really require much conservation either, but you still end up evading enemies you have no reason to fight. There's less reason to do that in the remake if they're in your critical path, especially in areas like the prison where you have to backtrack over the same hub area like 4 or 5 times.

Maybe I'd feel differently playing on Hard, but idk, the combat is already unfun and tedious and I don't think that adding more of it would make the game better. I do think that Bloober delivered a competent game that does the original justice, but wish they had focused more heavily on environmental storytelling and puzzle design because the new combat mechanics bring very little to the game and end up detracting from the horror—James is basically RE3 Jill with how many iframes he has.

[ExitPlanetDust]

Ah, so that wasn’t very successful then.

You can always make a dedicated thread. Take the plunge! :V There also used to be the website Rolling-Start but that unfortunately is gone due to hosting costs/issues I think.

I remember Rolling Start. I was there pretty early on. It’s hard to carve out a niche for arcade racers. I don’t think they’re as appreciated as shmups, fighting games, and beat em’ ups. They haven’t found that dedicated hardcore audience yet. Maybe they never will.

[Sima Tuna]

They had an audience back in the Outrun/Outrun2/F-Zero days. But arcade racers mostly stopped being made, and the ones we do get now aren't always up to the same quality standard as the classics. I think the fanbase aged out and the lack of new (good) arcade racers means a new generation of fans haven't been cultivated.

Apart from Mario Kart of course, which is its own thing that proves the genre can still have mass appeal. And I guess the Need for Speed franchise is still going... Somehow.

Edit: Oh yeah and simcades are super popular.

[To Far Away Times]

Wrapped up Nioh 2 earlier today.

Kind of a hard game to summarize. On one hand, it has the best combat of any Souls-like game, FROM soft games included. It also has more of it's own DNA compared to many Souls-like games, where it feels like more of a game within the "genre" than a clone like Lies of P. You could say the game is equal parts Ninja Gaiden and Souls, with a little bit of Diablo thrown in; and that's a pretty good place to be. Quite a long game, and I was sad to see it end. One thing I like in particular is how many of the enemies can wield every weapon the player can. It really makes it seem like the weapons are "real" in this game. It also makes it so even generic enemies have a dozen different weapons and move sets to contend with. The combat - with the stance changes and ki pulses - is just so good, and carries the whole game.

But there are some pretty big issues too. This is such a samey sequel. I think every asset from Nioh 1 is reused in some way in Nioh 2. Environmental assets, menus, skill trees, enemies, weapons... so much of the game comes from Nioh 1. They clearly opened the source code from Nioh 1 and started tweaking stuff and rearranging pieces to make a "new game." This really isn't how I like sequels to be. I would rather a developer takes an ambitious swing, and sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. Far out there sequels like Chrono Cross and Doom Eternal don't play that much like their (legendary) predecessors, but they are also so different that they are almost impossible to compare. That's how you do a sequel. Nioh 2 has a "been here, done that" feeling if you've played the first game. Also like the first game, the difficulty curve is pretty weird, and it's strange they didn't fix it. Just like Nioh 1, it's super hard at the beginning, (that fucking owl, the snake, the spider, the ice guy - there's some truly bastard bosses in this) until you progress down the skill tree and unlock some of the more powerful Onmyo and Ninjitsu abilities. After around the halfway point the difficulty plummets, and you can trivialize most bosses and tough enemies by slowing them down with sloth magic and lightning familiars. Add on some quick change scrolls from the Ninjistu tree and you're pretty much invincible. Why is the difficulty so front loaded? Only about a third of the players who start this game finish it. Had this game had a more traditional incremental difficulty curve, I bet the completion percentage would be closer to 50%.

Nioh 1 also had a very satisfying "post game" set of missions that completed a short secondary story in a new location. It wasn't DLC, it was just an extra part of the main game. It only runs a few hours, but it was immensely satisfying as a "bonus" and epilogue, and clearly a ton of work was put into it. It had mostly new environmental assets, new enemies, and a brand new boss. It ends the game on a high note. Nioh 2 attempts to do the same thing, but it's just a super simple boss fight against the protagonist and character model from the first game, and then a reused stage from a few hours earlier in Nioh 2 that you run backwards and a repeat boss fight with a few twists. It's pretty half assed in comparison.

One other thing, I'm not a huge fan of orchestral soundtracks, but if you like that kind of stuff this is definitely one of the better ones. Some seriously good orchestral tracks in this game.

[RuySan]

Funny that the conversation is about nioh. I didn't like it that much at first, it seemed like a boring dark souls clone, but The Electric Underground video of it made me try it again. And what a difference it makes to play it much more aggressively and more arcadey. I'm having a lot of fun, but the constantl loot checking is very annoyng, and the game is very dark. All the environments get samey. I just wish to see some grass and mountains.

[Sima Tuna]

The loot system is definitely a negative for Nioh 1. It goes against the kind of game that Nioh is trying to be. It introduces a loot metagame into what's supposed to be skill-based action-soulslike gameplay. The mentality of the loot grinder is completely different from what you get from either a Ninja Gaiden Black or Dark Souls. Souls games use a basic upgrade material setup for adding + bonuses to whatever gear you like aesthetically/in gameplay. Ninja Gaiden has numbers, but they're all under the hood. Upgraded Dragon Sword definitely does more damage than un-upgraded, but I couldn't tell you how much more. Besides, weapon upgrades in NG usually open up the moveset, so you have to ask at a certain point if an upgraded *weapon* does more damage, or if the moveset includes attacks that deal more damage... Functionally the same thing though.

Ultimately, I don't think the numbers matter that much in Nioh... Which is hilarious considering the looter-scooter-arpig system it borrowed is all about numbers. What I remember doing in Nioh is I would roll along and periodically upgrade gear, but basically never felt like my numbers were either very large or very small. Assuming that IS how Team Ninja intended the loot-gathering experience to work, I have to say it's pretty fucking pointless. They might as well have normalized enemy hp values, levels and then set all weapons to a single damage tier (or maybe 3 tiers at most.) The downside of doing this is it would expose how few unique weapons exist in Nioh 1.

Despite all my bitching, I like Nioh 1. I enjoyed it enough to finish all the major content and do a little NG+. Its gameplay is probably the best fusion of a hardcore action game with soulslike combat. The bat lady boss was the first time I sat up and said to myself, "okay, this game is fucking legit." The first boss is lazy dogshit, but that bat boss destroyed me until I had locked down the basics of movement and active stamina recovery. It felt so good to take her out once I'd learned how to deal with moves that felt impossibly fast and deadly at first.

[Lander]

Yeah, the loot was pointless try-it-and-see hedging on top of a perfectly good base design. Loopable NG+n difficulties in ARPGs arguably started with Diablo, but they didn't need to shove the rest in as well - minus the high-level metanonsense crafting that makes those games as enduringly addictive as they are.

I liked the first plenty, even got some way into looping it for cooler stuff, but it starts to feel a bit hollow and mechanical at that point versus Souls' more measured experience. Would have been way cooler if it played more or less the same, but was balanced and presented as more traditional character action. The genre still doesn't really have a definitive Samurai game, to my mind.

On the upside, the mental image of William lugging around a comically-large bale of Hattori Hanzo katanas in his bumbleramble across Nippon is kind of funny.

[RuySan]

My guess is that team ninja had to include the loot system because the publisher demanded. The game checks many boxes of what is/was popular.

[To Far Away Times]

I largely ignored the loot chase in my playthrough. I’d upgrade to the gear with the best stats in between stages, but didn’t level up strength and whatever else was needed to activate the bonus effects on your armor since it’s all very minimal.

I did put enough points into my carry weight to keep it under 70% while being able to hit 200 toughness and decent defense.

At least all that extra loot can be used to trade for devine rice. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s better than having to farm healing items like Demon’s Souls or Bloodborne.

[XoPachi]

Still trying to beat Shadow of the Ninja. Furthest I've gotten is stage 5. The bosses are surprisingly pretty easy in this game at least up to this point. The stages just wittle me down.

I've realized outside of the minigun on the stage 1 boss and a shot of the laser in the freezer area, I just dont care to use the weapons. I opt for only heals now. I've gotten a lot further just using the stock weapons and not trying to fit in sub weapons.

[Sumez]

I've never used any of the subweapons *at all* in the game. They definitely are not necessary. Beating the game without ever healing is really difficult, though.

[XoPachi]

I've never used any of the subweapons *at all* in the game. They definitely are not necessary. Beating the game without ever healing is really difficult, though.

I try my damndest to hold onto that health extension from stage 1 (I dont think I've ever found another).
I like the big cleaver thing for that mecha snake in stage 2 but it's not imperative really. Its the only other instance I can thing using any weapon efficiently so far.

I kind of wish I found them more useful. Maybe in hard mode?

[Immryr]

hard mode is about 90% the same as normal mode

[XoPachi]

Stage 5 is really grinding me up. I can't even imagine was stage 6 is gonna be like.

[XoPachi]

Got to the boss. He isn't actually all that bad, but I ran out of healing items and was rushing because I was about to time out so I died. He had 2 swings left too. :c
That last ascent was a bit much. The platforms sinking when you jump on them seem like something deliberately to tick the clock down further.

[guigui]

Some good games going on at home at the moment :

* Inscryption : yet more rogue like deck building game ala Slay the Spire. But this one is kind of special, very atmospheric, mysterious, not too hard at the beginning, but requires strategy and thinking fast enough to win, not very RNG based compared to Slay the Spire which is a huge plus for me. Definitely like it for now.

* Rayman Legends : never played a Rayman game before and, wow, this has a lot of content and gameplay is satisfying. Can see me and the kids coming back often to it for some good platforming moments.

* Bowser's Fury (from Super Mario 3D World Switch version) : already cleared this one years ago, but once again the kids launched it anew last week. A real good take from Nintendo on the "open world" aspect in a classical Mario game. Not very long but all the fun that could be squished out of those lighthouse islands has indeed been squished out. Good job !

* Rogue Legacy 2 : already cleared 1 years ago. Sequel is really the first game with just more of everything, and it suits me perfectly for now. Just get into the castle, have fun exploring, try new characters and weapon (chef's frying pan is really fun), die, get stronger at hub, repeat. Of course once you can clear the game and are overpowered the interest of playing decreases fast, but you have lots to do before you get to that point.

[XoPachi]

holy shit level 6 is so fucking hard

[BrianC]

They had an audience back in the Outrun/Outrun2/F-Zero days. But arcade racers mostly stopped being made, and the ones we do get now aren't always up to the same quality standard as the classics. I think the fanbase aged out and the lack of new (good) arcade racers means a new generation of fans haven't been cultivated.

Apart from Mario Kart of course, which is its own thing that proves the genre can still have mass appeal. And I guess the Need for Speed franchise is still going... Somehow.

Edit: Oh yeah and simcades are super popular.

Anyone playing Victory Heat Rally? It's a Power Drift inspired arcade racer, and I have been enjoying it so far. Even plays well with a digital pad.

[Sumez]

* Inscryption : yet more rogue like deck building game ala Slay the Spire. But this one is kind of special, very atmospheric, mysterious, not too hard at the beginning, but requires strategy and thinking fast enough to win, not very RNG based compared to Slay the Spire which is a huge plus for me. Definitely like it for now.

Oh man.
I'm not gonna spoil anything for you, but I think your opinion of this game is gonna change very drastically as you start progressing further...

[m.sniffles.esq]

Rayman Legends : never played a Rayman game before and, wow, this has a lot of content and gameplay is satisfying. Can see me and the kids coming back often to it for some good platforming moments.

Couch co-op is a ton of fun (and if you have it on switch, you can just split the joycon)

It's one of those games that if 'mario' was in the title, people would blather on about what an unassailable classic it was. Since it doesn't, it gets regulated to "yeah, it's pretty good for a 'mario-like'..."

[Sumez]

Haven't played Legends, but Rayman Origins is a modern classic for sure.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Haven't played Legends, but Rayman Origins is a modern classic for sure.

I actually haven't played Origins, but from what I understand I really don't need to, as a good bit of Origins is actually in Legends (some say 12 levels, some say more), plus a whole bunch of other stuff. It's seriously a lot of game for the $5-$10 they're charging for it nowadays.

[RuySan]

Rayman Legends : never played a Rayman game before and, wow, this has a lot of content and gameplay is satisfying. Can see me and the kids coming back often to it for some good platforming moments.

Couch co-op is a ton of fun (and if you have it on switch, you can just split the joycon)

It's one of those games that if 'mario' was in the title, people would blather on about what an unassailable classic it was. Since it doesn't, it gets regulated to "yeah, it's pretty good for a 'mario-like'..."

Yes, and it's unarguably better than any *New" Mario game.