The scrub rules of STG game design

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Rastan78
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by Rastan78 »

Ice Beam wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 4:08 pm
m.sniffles.esq wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:07 pm I (naturally) saw this, and it sort of assumes you already know what it means due to your knowledge of the FGC (whatever the fuck that is)*
It's a reference to the STG circle/Rock band 'Fine Gynoug Cannibals'.

Should've done better job explaining in the OP. I thought it was common knowledge around here that FGC = Fine Gynoug Cannibals.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Rastan78 wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 3:07 pmAlthough a certain sense of fairness is subverted because the game introduces a hitbox that makes it nearly impossible to not get hit in some situations.
My take on Gradius, particularly Gradius V which has a tiny hitbox relative to the ship and the shield size, is that it works fine. The last hit on your ship's shield has a pretty small hitbox, so effectively you're guaranteed to have one hit on your shield that will stop a "normal" attack and not get soaked by being able to hit you far beyond your normal hitbox. The other two hits it takes can be thought of as a bit of a bonus.
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m.sniffles.esq
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Should've done better job explaining in the OP. I thought it was common knowledge around here that FGC = Fine Gynoug Cannibals.
In all fairness, I was playing Black Bird on this morning's commute, so I'm hardly an authority (or even generally knowledgeable) on STG ephemera.
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Lander
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So coin up and say the word

Post by Lander »

The New Metal Black is my favourite FGC album. Wrong Side (of the Screen) especially - really captures the ebb and flow of a good STG.

Re. Shields: DariusBurst, anyone? That game's more exotic campaign routes get a little ridiculous with the amount of free hits afforded to the player. I'm fairly easygoing when it comes to harsh regulation of lives, but DBCS managed to make me feel guilty about it nonetheless :lol:

Gradius' classical phat shield rules irk me a bit; atop the fine Speed Up balance between quack and splat, it's quite easy to pop ? only to hear the bottom-out twoing! noise moments later and realise you shouldn't have dived for that next ground-hugging power capsule.
m.sniffles.esq wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 1:07 pm So a 'scrub' is a player that is neutral (neither good or bad), that is unwilling to meet the game on it's own terms?
Have a skim through ScrubQuotes if you want (many, many) practical examples of what defines scrub-like behaviour. Used to be specific to the FGC fanbase, but over time it's expanded out to any domain where scrubs might be found.

My own one-liner attempt: A scrub blames anything but themselves for their own failings, and will execute significant mental gymnastics to justify it.
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m.sniffles.esq
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Have a skim through ScrubQuotes if you want (many, many) practical examples of what defines scrub-like behaviour. Used to be specific to the FGC fanbase, but over time it's expanded out to any domain where scrubs might be found.

My own one-liner attempt: A scrub blames anything but themselves for their own failings, and will execute significant mental gymnastics to justify it.
I see.
I'm probably unfamiliar with the term because I disable chat/don't do discord (is there a more aptly named thing?)/disable voice whenever playing an online game with randos. I don't need some 'elite' player barking orders at me then having a meltdown when only an 'A' rank is obtainable rather than a 'S', thus only netting them 200,000 spacebucks instead of 500,000, wasting their time, etc, etc, etc

"GO GET THAT MOB ON THE LEFT FLANK!!!"
"My left or yours?"
"THE LEFT FLANK!"
"You're facing me, and there's mobs on either side. Which one?"
"THERE'S ONLY ONE LEFT FLANK!! FUUUUCCCCK! THERE GOES THE S RANK! GG FUCKING LOSERS"

*chat = disabled*
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Lander
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by Lander »

m.sniffles.esq wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2024 9:19 pmTHERE GOES THE S RANK! GG FUCKING LOSERS
Oh, I'm the same when it comes to random chat. Saw that shit coming when the 360 implemented its 'abuse via friend request' meta, and battened down the hatches forthwith! Into the box you go, shiny Asimovian future; you were never meant to be...

Amazes me that fucking tryhard bitch mashing out ultras eat my dick translated so readily to co-op games. What is it they say - "Keep your friends close, but enemies closer"? Psh!

Better to settle for yuks at a distance, like some sort of demented Bill Oddie Image :mrgreen:
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Lethe
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by Lethe »

Without context: Danmaku games shouldn't have bombs.
Bombs are only acceptable if 1. your game has proper non-trivial recovery or 2. is intentionally unfair or degenerate, Yagawa etc. Otherwise just delete your bomb system.
The convention of bombs in boring STGs is as guard crush bars are to fighting games, lazy catchall padding to poorly thought out design that only obscures the potential of interesting subtleties.

Decide for yourself whether this take is anti-scrub or aussenseiter-Skrubsicht.
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Lander
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DEGENERATE YGW vs. PRIEST IKD

Post by Lander »

It's a pearl, is what it is :mrgreen:
For Scrub Eyes Only
I can't think of a single bombless bullethell off the top of my head...
My latest: If you're making a checkpoint game, including a full-powerup code is mandatory, and restricting it to a single use per stage / continue / [other condition] is illegal. The player's time is of utmost value and to be wasted at your own peril.
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Mortificator
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by Mortificator »

Lethe wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:55 pm Without context: Danmaku games shouldn't have bombs.
Bombs are only acceptable if 1. your game has proper non-trivial recovery or 2. is intentionally unfair or degenerate, Yagawa etc. Otherwise just delete your bomb system.
The convention of bombs in boring STGs is as guard crush bars are to fighting games, lazy catchall padding to poorly thought out design that only obscures the potential of interesting subtleties.
Bombs in an instant respawn game are just a health system that the player need to opt in to
RegalSin wrote:You can't even drive across the country Naked anymore
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Lethe
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Re: The scrub rules of STG game design

Post by Lethe »

Mortificator wrote: Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:16 pm Bombs in an instant respawn game are just a health system that the player need to opt in to
Now that's some scrub rules material right there!

If only that were literally the case, then I wouldn't be complaining.
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BIL
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Rule 1: PUT GUN SHOT INNA YUH BLOODCLAAT FACE (`w´メ) but visibry >;3

Post by BIL »

I don't think even the wildest aesthetics need compromise visibility. That's basic visual calibration. If the background is a sea of floppy white cocks, make the bullets dark. If floppy black cocks, light. If you've unleashed United Colours Of Benetton The Shooting: Every Dick Is Beautiful (In Its Own Way) upon mankind, go with green or blue. Perhaps consider glowing highlights. Or even proximity-based audio/visual cues. As long as the contrast is good, it shouldn't matter how far out of (or into) the box a game goes.

Some of the worst offenders I can think off, offhand, are austere military affairs. Trigon's desert stage, P47's sunset stage, and Mad Shark's refinery stage all fumble the contrast for no real reason.
Spot the ART SHUMP (■`w´■)
Image Image Image Image
^ could almost believe the sun is a deliberate visual hazard there, as it is in real air combat. Not a fan of that either way, though! All great games. I just make a point of exclaiming "HELL NAWWW" on those stages. MB does fine despite a deliberately noisy BG.

Sometimes even chromatically-sound stages slip a howler. As if the art lead did a fuckoff massive rail of Bubble Coke™ to survive his 20hr workday, the poor prick going colourblind for a sec. Tragic! But shamefur. Image A puzzler from War Of Aero. All good in the hood until, for some reason, blue/white bullets on a blue/white BG.
Speedkill Blue's Respects, or face bullshit (`w´メ)
Image
It's a cool setpiece! tbh, I find its velocity more compelling than Rayforce's iconic example. And its seamless ImageFight nod is peak epigone. Would it have killed the groove to go with a different bullet colour? I don't think so. The coda is visually noisy, with its rushing white clouds, but as with MB up there, the contrast is sufficient.

Here's The Tin Star, an innovative belt arena rotary STG. Still admirably fresh today, full of ideas while maintaining sleek arcade form. Sadly, its first two stages's contrast is fucking awful. Grey puffs on yellow/off-white BGs. Were they conveying the terror of a gunfight, where your brain might be dashed before it ever processes the bullet responsible? It's moot, as we reach the third and final stage: a baby blue floor, infinitely more readable. You can get an idea from the below GIF; watch as the bullets pass over the bartop.
Wild Western's contrast kinda sucks too (■`w´■)
Image
Ironically with it being P47's stablemate, Task Force Harrier makes the rare concession of palette-swapping its bullets for contrast. I wish more designers had done this. Or make it a nighttime desert raid, there aren't enough of those.
Purple bullets ruin the realism of indestructible Chibi Harriers w/blaster burn attack (`w´メ)
Image
I never found Garegga comparably bad here. Contrast is usually tolerable, and bullets have black highlighting that often helps when it's not. It's a bit naughty when bullets nestle amongst similarly metallic BLAST CHIPS. But shrap moves much faster, lacks bullets' distinct spike shape, and I generally know when something's exploding. Enough cognitive footholds for muh brain to adjust. Never used the Saturn's BLAST CHIP REDUCE nor RED BALLS for even my basic bitch 1CCs.

Even here, ruggedly implacable Brutal Grey Factory: The STG doesn't need sparkly pink bullets, uwuu. Get some fuckin chops! :O How about a morosely burning umber, redolent of furnace flame? Bro that's \m/etal as fuck. Give 'em a nice rivet shape, too. Now your murderfactory is stylish and functional! Image
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